Everyone knows what the point of your original post was — that this is all a feature, Apple's engineers deliberately went out of their way to make it possible to bypass the security, but only if you mashed the call button like you were playing an 80s video game.
Please try again when you’re able to read.
Originally Posted by iRon man
Has this not been answered for you?
Yes, and thank you. But why it’s still a dial in and not single button access is baffling.
But why it’s still a dial in and not single button access is baffling.
Perhaps it's to prevent accidental calls... or prevent intentional calls that are claimed to be accidental. Perhaps it's the law or regulation, in some or all countries. Perhaps it's because the emergency number varies between countries; and even if Apple could develop a system that changed the number dialed accordingly, perhaps Apple wouldn't want to shoulder the liability of maintaining that system at 100% up-time and accuracy.
Yes, and thank you. But why it’s still a dial in and not single button access is baffling.
Because the world is more complex than the damn US, and even in the US, not everything warrants calling 911. Why do Americans always think the entire world ticks by their clocks?
In Europe there are separate emergency numbers for Police, Ambulance, Road Side Assistance and Fire (which means FASTER service)
Because there are sometimes highway emergency numbers.
Because how would you know what number to dial, and this question isn't asked for no reason, Apple gets this already wrong with other things: based on your region settings? Based on the SIM card? Based on location services?
Region settings won't work, because people like to retain their preferred date and language settings no matter where they are.
SIM card won't work, because people roam, even internationally.
Location services won't work, because there are situations where you may have to call non-local emergency services and location services may be turned off to save power and aren't always reliable. Further e.g. in Europe you spend a lot of time near national borders. You may be in the German mobile network, while being on Austrian ground. What's the German police going to do with an emergency call originating from Austria?
Side note about how Apple gets region settings on iOS wrong:
There's no way to specify date and phone number formatting, except by fishing for a region that has the formatting you like, in my case English-language Maltese settings. I'm not in Malta, I'm in the US, and sometimes in other parts of Europe.
But what does Apple do? Default to Google Malta in searches (google.com.mt instead of google.com), places me randomly to Malta in various apps, etc.
Apple's overzealous drive at simplification which already screwed up AppleIDs royally (people ARE not an e-mail address, people HAVE an e-mail address, i.e. mixing up HAS-A and IS-A relationships) strikes again: region settings for formatting dates and times have nothing to do with where I am, or if these are default location settings, then my default location has nothing to do with how I want things formatted on screen. But Apple, trying to simplify is more and more falling into the trap of oversimplification which then creates trouble.
I'm glad they haven't yet fallen into that trap with emergency dialing, but if you give them some time, they will eventually implement emergency dialing just like you propose with a single button, and eventually people will die, because that won't cover the complex situations life throws at us in reality.
Because the world is more complex than the damn US, and even in the US, not everything warrants calling 911. Why do Americans always think the entire world ticks by their clocks?
In Europe there are separate emergency numbers for Police, Ambulance, Road Side Assistance and Fire (which means FASTER service)
Magical. It would obviously violate the laws of physics to have the OS show separate buttons for said separate services, so let’s keep the keypad around, I guess. And since to make the device know where it is and offer local emergency services as required would necessitate putting all children on Earth into slavery, I guess Apple will just have to hold off on offering an intelligent solution, huh.
If you carefully watch the youtube video, it is full of glaring inconsistencies. First off, why are the guys hands trembling so? Second why is someone else actually holding the sides of the iPhone? Why don't they clearly show us his fingers during the so called initial training session? Why don't they show that the iphone 5s had ZERO fingerprints already trained? Why the obvious gaps in the video chronology?
They are claiming that the Authentec/Apple fingerprint technology does NOT read the subepidermis layer but rather just a very high resolution 2D surface print reader (ie just a very good version of previously demonstrated fingerprint reading technology). That flies completely in the face of everything that Authentec announced before Apple's acquisition of the company and what has been published since. Either Apple has been caught in a bold face lie about the technology (ie that it reads the sub epidermis layer of LIVE skin cells in 3D NOT the 2D dead skin surface layer, or the so called hackers are trying to pull a fast one. I for one would put money on Apple being the one telling the truth as they have a LOT riding on this technology. It simply does NOT seem reasonable to believe that the purported hack would NOT have been tried within the Apple R&D labs, not to mention during the technical due diligence performed prior to buying Authentec.
I am not saying that Apple's fingerprint technology is NOT going to be hacked at some point, but this hack, even with its less than straightforward process is still way too obvious to be the legit. I think that all this reported hack proves is that people are going to believe whatever they are predisposed to believe.
Either the hackers are going to have to put up the required video detailing ALL the steps with intact chronology and no room for slight of hand tricks or they are going to be totally discredited.
If you carefully watch the youtube video, it is full of glaring inconsistencies. First off, why are the guys hands trembling so? Second why is someone else actually holding the sides of the iPhone? Why don't they clearly show us his fingers during the so called initial training session? Why don't they show that the iphone 5s had ZERO fingerprints already trained? Why the obvious gaps in the video chronology?
They are claiming that the Authentec/Apple fingerprint technology does NOT read the subepidermis layer but rather just a very high resolution 2D surface print reader (ie just a very good version of previously demonstrated fingerprint reading technology). That flies completely in the face of everything that Authentec announced before Apple's acquisition of the company and what has been published since. Either Apple has been caught in a bold face lie about the technology (ie that it reads the sub epidermis layer of LIVE skin cells in 3D NOT the 2D dead skin surface layer, or the so called hackers are trying to pull a fast one. I for one would put money on Apple being the one telling the truth as they have a LOT riding on this technology. It simply does NOT seem reasonable to believe that the purported hack would NOT have been tried within the Apple R&D labs, not to mention during the technical due diligence performed prior to buying Authentec.
I am not saying that Apple's fingerprint technology is NOT going to be hacked at some point, but this hack, even with its less than straightforward process is still way too obvious to be the legit. I think that all this reported hack proves is that people are going to believe whatever they are predisposed to believe.
Either the hackers are going to have to put up the required video detailing ALL the steps with intact chronology and no room for slight of hand tricks or they are going to be totally discredited.
David
Nothing the CCC guys claim is at odds with Apple statements so there's nothing Apple would be lying about.. The heavy-inked laser print CCC created delivers what's effectively a 3D print. "Scanning sub-dermal " skin layers refers to verifying electrical activity expected in live tissue which is the method Authentec used.. It's not magic.
This is soooo funny! If someone can get a high rez scan of MY prints, then "easily" reproduce them to a transparency, then cast a latex mold of them, wet them, then apply them to MY phone.... they can have my data. Easy peasy.
That's right up there in the headlines with "Your breakfast cereal will kill you!, news at 11..."
Yo, Appleinsider, how is this a bug? the emergency call feature works the same way in iOS 6, you do not need to unlock the phone to make a phone call....
Apparently you’re illiterate or just unwilling to read my posts in the first place yet then believe you have any right to reply to them. I’ll say it again: My statement blatantly implies that the button would be either general use or change depending on the area in which you live, but no, let’s go completely ignore the point and focus on that part of it.
And no, I don’t live in Cuba.
Sorry, but there are many countries where several emergency numbers exist, like in Europe where you have several numbers for firefighters, ambulance, police, and European emergency number 112.
Nothing the CCC guys claim is at odds with Apple statements so there's nothing Apple would be lying about.. The heavy-inked laser print CCC created delivers what's effectively a 3D print. "Scanning sub-dermal " skin layers refers to verifying electrical activity expected in live tissue which is the method Authentec used.. It's not magic.
That is not what Authentec/Apple claimed at all! They stated and showed that they were make a capacitive topology map of the sub epidermal layers of live skin cells at a resolution of 500ppi, NOT just looking for electrical activity. Simply looking for "something" at the sub epidermal layer would NOT offer ANY added security. Might as well just measure for skin temperature as that would be just as secure.
Because the world is more complex than the damn US, and even in the US, not everything warrants calling 911. Why do Americans always think the entire world ticks by their clocks?
In Europe there are separate emergency numbers for Police, Ambulance, Road Side Assistance and Fire (which means FASTER service)
Magical. It would obviously violate the laws of physics to have the OS show separate buttons for said separate services, so let’s keep the keypad around, I guess. And since to make the device know where it is and offer local emergency services as required would necessitate putting all children on Earth into slavery, I guess Apple will just have to hold off on offering an intelligent solution, huh.
Come off it.
You come off it. You seem to display a psychological defect in that you are unable to admit that you were wrong. Strategically cutting out the remainder of the reasons why a single (or for that matter multiple) special purpose button(s) won't work is not honest reasoning. Trying to make absurd statements like the one about putting all children into slavery doesn't help your case, either, nor does it paint a positive picture of your psychological state of mind.
First you were complaining that Apple doesn't have a single button, now you morph your argument to complain that it's not multiple buttons (probably with some sort of culture invariant icon to symbolize police, medical, etc. emergencies, which would already fail, because different cultures have different expectations, and people travel, so someone who associates the Red Cresent with medical may well be in Switzerland where it's the Red Cross, etc.) How pitifully stuff like this fails is when US companies use Interstate highway number sign outlines to symbolize a highway, and about 80% of the world's population scratches their head as to what that ridiculous symbol is supposed to mean. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
Fact is: having a number key pad is what people expect from a phone, it doesn't require any further explanation, and it works in all sorts of boundary cases (literally!) like when traveling near international borders when you may fade in and out of cross-border cellular service.
Nope. Haven’t you always been able to make any call from there? Were it just a line into 911, there would only be one button there: “911”.
Your posts are easy enough to read, if facepalm-inducing. It's pretty obvious that, before you started back-pedaling at least, you were going on your usual "It's not a flaw, Apple is perfect, how dare anyone even have written an article about this" angle. Thanks for the personal insult, though.
Yes, and thank you. But why it’s still a dial in and not single button access is baffling.
In addition to the myriad reasons people have already given you, perhaps 911 doesn't appreciate being pocket dialed?
First you were complaining that Apple doesn’t have a single button…
Yep.
…now you morph your argument to complain that it’s not multiple buttons…
Yep, because once informed that separate top-level services are the norm elsewhere, it only makes sense to modify one’s personal wish to fit that bill.
(probably with some sort of culture invariant icon to symbolize police, medical, etc. emergencies, which would already fail, because different cultures have different expectations, and people travel, so someone who associates the Red Cresent with medical may well be in Switzerland where it’s the Red Cross, etc.)
Because that’s the only possible design one could come up with, of course.
What is WRONG with you people? I cannot possibly be the only human being in this THREAD, much less overall, who can actually come up with intelligent answers to this problem. You Cubans (once again, referring to that joke) have one thought, immediately, with no actual research done to it, and instantaneously dismiss it as bad. No wonder everything you think is wrong!
People with smartphones tend to be literate. The buttons would have words on them. It’s literally this simple to comprehend.
…it works in all sorts of boundary cases (literally!) like when traveling near international borders when you may fade in and out of cross-border cellular service.
And it’s even more astonishing that you can parse situations like this without also thinking of the ludicrously obvious solution to this problem: EVERY IPHONE HAS GPS IN IT, WHICH TRIANGULATES TO WITHIN A FEW METERS. So even if you’re a refugee literally in the process of hopping over the Iron Curtain* and you’ve tripped and broken your ankle, the smartphone you’ve been sent back in time with will know where you are and just FIND the nearest service to call.
*Don’t you dare claim that I think the Iron Curtain was an actual wall. " src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />
Originally Posted by Durandal1707
…perhaps 911 doesn’t appreciate being pocket dialed?
And this happens when? If it’s possible with my solution, it’s possible with yours.
What is WRONG with you people? I cannot possibly be the only human being in this THREAD, much less overall, who can actually come up with intelligent answers to this problem.
Oh, the irony.
And this happens when? If it’s possible with my solution, it’s possible with yours.
It doesn't, because 911 isn't a one-touch operation. The odds that you will accidentally press the 9, 1, 1, keys and then the dial button in that succession by accident in your pocket are much lower than the odds that you'll accidentally hit a single button. If it were one-touch, it would happen all the friggin' time. If you haven't ever had the "emergency dial" button get pressed while in your pocket, so that when you pull your phone out it's at the emergency dialpad, my only guess is that you must not use the lock screen.
Meanwhile, the need to dial "911" is not a "problem" at all, since these numbers are *designed* to be easily memorable. The only "problem" here is your need to clear egg off your face, having embarrassed yourself earlier in the thread. OTOH, not being able to dial an emergency number, because the phone wasn't getting a good GPS signal, data connection, or whatnot, a server was down, Apple didn't bother to include support for Lithuania, or there was a latency issue that caused the list to take *just* long enough to update to make you miss your split-second window for survival... well, that actually is a problem. Emergency dialing is definitely one of the areas where you want to KISS.
Comments
Please try again when you’re able to read.
Has this not been answered for you?
Yes, and thank you. But why it’s still a dial in and not single button access is baffling.
But why it’s still a dial in and not single button access is baffling.
Perhaps it's to prevent accidental calls... or prevent intentional calls that are claimed to be accidental. Perhaps it's the law or regulation, in some or all countries. Perhaps it's because the emergency number varies between countries; and even if Apple could develop a system that changed the number dialed accordingly, perhaps Apple wouldn't want to shoulder the liability of maintaining that system at 100% up-time and accuracy.
I did this on a friend's iPhone at a party last night. It was a neat party trick.
Yes, and thank you. But why it’s still a dial in and not single button access is baffling.
Because the world is more complex than the damn US, and even in the US, not everything warrants calling 911. Why do Americans always think the entire world ticks by their clocks?
In Europe there are separate emergency numbers for Police, Ambulance, Road Side Assistance and Fire (which means FASTER service)
Because there are sometimes highway emergency numbers.
Because how would you know what number to dial, and this question isn't asked for no reason, Apple gets this already wrong with other things: based on your region settings? Based on the SIM card? Based on location services?
Region settings won't work, because people like to retain their preferred date and language settings no matter where they are.
SIM card won't work, because people roam, even internationally.
Location services won't work, because there are situations where you may have to call non-local emergency services and location services may be turned off to save power and aren't always reliable. Further e.g. in Europe you spend a lot of time near national borders. You may be in the German mobile network, while being on Austrian ground. What's the German police going to do with an emergency call originating from Austria?
Side note about how Apple gets region settings on iOS wrong:
There's no way to specify date and phone number formatting, except by fishing for a region that has the formatting you like, in my case English-language Maltese settings. I'm not in Malta, I'm in the US, and sometimes in other parts of Europe.
But what does Apple do? Default to Google Malta in searches (google.com.mt instead of google.com), places me randomly to Malta in various apps, etc.
Apple's overzealous drive at simplification which already screwed up AppleIDs royally (people ARE not an e-mail address, people HAVE an e-mail address, i.e. mixing up HAS-A and IS-A relationships) strikes again: region settings for formatting dates and times have nothing to do with where I am, or if these are default location settings, then my default location has nothing to do with how I want things formatted on screen. But Apple, trying to simplify is more and more falling into the trap of oversimplification which then creates trouble.
I'm glad they haven't yet fallen into that trap with emergency dialing, but if you give them some time, they will eventually implement emergency dialing just like you propose with a single button, and eventually people will die, because that won't cover the complex situations life throws at us in reality.
Because the world is more complex than the damn US, and even in the US, not everything warrants calling 911. Why do Americans always think the entire world ticks by their clocks?
In Europe there are separate emergency numbers for Police, Ambulance, Road Side Assistance and Fire (which means FASTER service)
Magical. It would obviously violate the laws of physics to have the OS show separate buttons for said separate services, so let’s keep the keypad around, I guess. And since to make the device know where it is and offer local emergency services as required would necessitate putting all children on Earth into slavery, I guess Apple will just have to hold off on offering an intelligent solution, huh.
Come off it.
Looks like the Touch ID has already been hacked. I wonder if it can be fixed in an update.
http://mashable.com/2013/09/22/touch-id-hacker/
If you carefully watch the youtube video, it is full of glaring inconsistencies. First off, why are the guys hands trembling so? Second why is someone else actually holding the sides of the iPhone? Why don't they clearly show us his fingers during the so called initial training session? Why don't they show that the iphone 5s had ZERO fingerprints already trained? Why the obvious gaps in the video chronology?
They are claiming that the Authentec/Apple fingerprint technology does NOT read the subepidermis layer but rather just a very high resolution 2D surface print reader (ie just a very good version of previously demonstrated fingerprint reading technology). That flies completely in the face of everything that Authentec announced before Apple's acquisition of the company and what has been published since. Either Apple has been caught in a bold face lie about the technology (ie that it reads the sub epidermis layer of LIVE skin cells in 3D NOT the 2D dead skin surface layer, or the so called hackers are trying to pull a fast one. I for one would put money on Apple being the one telling the truth as they have a LOT riding on this technology. It simply does NOT seem reasonable to believe that the purported hack would NOT have been tried within the Apple R&D labs, not to mention during the technical due diligence performed prior to buying Authentec.
I am not saying that Apple's fingerprint technology is NOT going to be hacked at some point, but this hack, even with its less than straightforward process is still way too obvious to be the legit. I think that all this reported hack proves is that people are going to believe whatever they are predisposed to believe.
Either the hackers are going to have to put up the required video detailing ALL the steps with intact chronology and no room for slight of hand tricks or they are going to be totally discredited.
David
Wanna see a fun iOS 7 bug....put Voice Memos in a folder and watch the icon as you zoom in and out of the folder. Tell me if you see it.
on my 5s I don't see any anomaly with the voice memos icon as the folder containing it is open/closed. What did you you see?
Nothing the CCC guys claim is at odds with Apple statements so there's nothing Apple would be lying about.. The heavy-inked laser print CCC created delivers what's effectively a 3D print. "Scanning sub-dermal " skin layers refers to verifying electrical activity expected in live tissue which is the method Authentec used.. It's not magic.
This is soooo funny! If someone can get a high rez scan of MY prints, then "easily" reproduce them to a transparency, then cast a latex mold of them, wet them, then apply them to MY phone.... they can have my data. Easy peasy.
That's right up there in the headlines with "Your breakfast cereal will kill you!, news at 11..."
Apparently you’re illiterate or just unwilling to read my posts in the first place yet then believe you have any right to reply to them. I’ll say it again: My statement blatantly implies that the button would be either general use or change depending on the area in which you live, but no, let’s go completely ignore the point and focus on that part of it.
And no, I don’t live in Cuba.
Sorry, but there are many countries where several emergency numbers exist, like in Europe where you have several numbers for firefighters, ambulance, police, and European emergency number 112.
Nothing the CCC guys claim is at odds with Apple statements so there's nothing Apple would be lying about.. The heavy-inked laser print CCC created delivers what's effectively a 3D print. "Scanning sub-dermal " skin layers refers to verifying electrical activity expected in live tissue which is the method Authentec used.. It's not magic.
That is not what Authentec/Apple claimed at all! They stated and showed that they were make a capacitive topology map of the sub epidermal layers of live skin cells at a resolution of 500ppi, NOT just looking for electrical activity. Simply looking for "something" at the sub epidermal layer would NOT offer ANY added security. Might as well just measure for skin temperature as that would be just as secure.
Because the world is more complex than the damn US, and even in the US, not everything warrants calling 911. Why do Americans always think the entire world ticks by their clocks?
In Europe there are separate emergency numbers for Police, Ambulance, Road Side Assistance and Fire (which means FASTER service)
Magical. It would obviously violate the laws of physics to have the OS show separate buttons for said separate services, so let’s keep the keypad around, I guess. And since to make the device know where it is and offer local emergency services as required would necessitate putting all children on Earth into slavery, I guess Apple will just have to hold off on offering an intelligent solution, huh.
Come off it.
You come off it. You seem to display a psychological defect in that you are unable to admit that you were wrong. Strategically cutting out the remainder of the reasons why a single (or for that matter multiple) special purpose button(s) won't work is not honest reasoning. Trying to make absurd statements like the one about putting all children into slavery doesn't help your case, either, nor does it paint a positive picture of your psychological state of mind.
First you were complaining that Apple doesn't have a single button, now you morph your argument to complain that it's not multiple buttons (probably with some sort of culture invariant icon to symbolize police, medical, etc. emergencies, which would already fail, because different cultures have different expectations, and people travel, so someone who associates the Red Cresent with medical may well be in Switzerland where it's the Red Cross, etc.) How pitifully stuff like this fails is when US companies use Interstate highway number sign outlines to symbolize a highway, and about 80% of the world's population scratches their head as to what that ridiculous symbol is supposed to mean. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
Fact is: having a number key pad is what people expect from a phone, it doesn't require any further explanation, and it works in all sorts of boundary cases (literally!) like when traveling near international borders when you may fade in and out of cross-border cellular service.
on my 5s I don't see any anomaly with the voice memos icon as the folder containing it is open/closed. What did you you see?
Oh well, to me I see the lines of the wav form on the icon shimmer a bit. Just looks like weak scaling.
Your posts are easy enough to read, if facepalm-inducing. It's pretty obvious that, before you started back-pedaling at least, you were going on your usual "It's not a flaw, Apple is perfect, how dare anyone even have written an article about this" angle. Thanks for the personal insult, though.
In addition to the myriad reasons people have already given you, perhaps 911 doesn't appreciate being pocket dialed?
Sorry, but there are many countries…
Sorry; that part was a joke.
First you were complaining that Apple doesn’t have a single button…
Yep.
Yep, because once informed that separate top-level services are the norm elsewhere, it only makes sense to modify one’s personal wish to fit that bill.
Because that’s the only possible design one could come up with, of course.
What is WRONG with you people? I cannot possibly be the only human being in this THREAD, much less overall, who can actually come up with intelligent answers to this problem. You Cubans (once again, referring to that joke) have one thought, immediately, with no actual research done to it, and instantaneously dismiss it as bad. No wonder everything you think is wrong!
People with smartphones tend to be literate. The buttons would have words on them. It’s literally this simple to comprehend.
…it works in all sorts of boundary cases (literally!) like when traveling near international borders when you may fade in and out of cross-border cellular service.
And it’s even more astonishing that you can parse situations like this without also thinking of the ludicrously obvious solution to this problem: EVERY IPHONE HAS GPS IN IT, WHICH TRIANGULATES TO WITHIN A FEW METERS. So even if you’re a refugee literally in the process of hopping over the Iron Curtain* and you’ve tripped and broken your ankle, the smartphone you’ve been sent back in time with will know where you are and just FIND the nearest service to call.
*Don’t you dare claim that I think the Iron Curtain was an actual wall.
" src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />
And this happens when? If it’s possible with my solution, it’s possible with yours.
It doesn't, because 911 isn't a one-touch operation. The odds that you will accidentally press the 9, 1, 1, keys and then the dial button in that succession by accident in your pocket are much lower than the odds that you'll accidentally hit a single button. If it were one-touch, it would happen all the friggin' time. If you haven't ever had the "emergency dial" button get pressed while in your pocket, so that when you pull your phone out it's at the emergency dialpad, my only guess is that you must not use the lock screen.
Meanwhile, the need to dial "911" is not a "problem" at all, since these numbers are *designed* to be easily memorable. The only "problem" here is your need to clear egg off your face, having embarrassed yourself earlier in the thread. OTOH, not being able to dial an emergency number, because the phone wasn't getting a good GPS signal, data connection, or whatnot, a server was down, Apple didn't bother to include support for Lithuania, or there was a latency issue that caused the list to take *just* long enough to update to make you miss your split-second window for survival... well, that actually is a problem. Emergency dialing is definitely one of the areas where you want to KISS.