No surprise. Apple stop shipping Mac's the last two months because of the iMac refresh and the new MacPro.
Actually they had people waiting last quarter for the iMac, the Mini, the Mac Pro, the Mac Book Pro and all the stuff that goes with them. The only people with a decent machine debut are AIR users. It is no wonder sales are down and yes I believe the general gist of things here.
While PC builders keep shipping them to Costco warehouses.
Why not they are huge warehouse that would take forever for stock holders to find the dumping ground.
What's most noticeable in these stats is not really the drop by Apple, but rather the gain by Lenovo.
Wonder if this might be a wake-up call to Apple that convertibles are a big part of the future. Apple is well positioned to enter into this space, with just one tiny issue; namely, what software does it run?
Well, of course they lost ground last quarter, they only announced and started shipping one new line of computers (MacBook Airs), they just announced the new iMacs, but they have yet to release the new Mac Mini, MacBookPro/Retina, MacPro, and whatever else they might have up their sleeves.
The MBP should be getting a twice yearly update to keep it competitive, if this was the case then a delay such as thunderbolt 2 wouldn't be such an impact. We basically have the situation where people has been putting off a purchase for many months now.
The vast majority of MBPs I see are 13" models used by corporate users, the only thunderbolt accessory they use is a VGA adapter. Just release an updated 13" now without TB2.
err. define competitive? Apple's price point has always been along the lines of... you get a great computer for the price, and a great user experience with the OS and apps. But... if all you're looking at is pure price or price/performance, and the OS is a slight negative (for most PC users... it is... purely from 'better the devil you know' aspect), Apple will lose every time.
Apple's plan, and their sticking to it, is annual major updates, and maybe a market tweak (a better processor just came on, slightly more HDD, or a tweak of componentry) mid cycle. To do anymore, would thrash their user community and they would osborne (I'll wait 6 more months) a bit (I'm in that waiting mode... knowing that an MBA13 would 'do'... but I'm waiting to see what comes out this quarter...)
And well, I don't think they want to bifurcate their products with some having TB2 and some not (again, part of that planned unobsolescence mode... they'd rather not ship a device that in 6 months would be deprecated by their roadmap baseline technologies). Would you like to not have 802.11ac on your laptop... or get it now and have it when you finally update your router? Those are the sorts of things that make buying Apple HW an investment.
If the iMac refresh was worth a damn- I would have upgraded my 2010. Easily the most underwhelming iMac update I've seen. 2014 should be the year of the Retina iMac and Fusion drive being standard. That would actually be an impressive update.
The future of computing/consuming is Tablets 1st, and Desktops 2nd. Laptops will be a thing of the past before the traditional desktop. Of course, tablet (or even phone) docking will likely replace the desktop eventually. Unfortunately, the next several generations of Intel chips are all portability/power consumption focused... they're a giant, sinking ship.
The 2013 iMac isn't worth the upgrade from the 2010 iMac? a couple of processor revs better, faster memory, faster SSD/Fusion drives, 802.11ac, better GPU. Jeez, what more do you want? Retina? come on, that's not cost effective at this point in time. Who has a higher resolution 27inch monitor on the market? I haven't seen any that I'm aware of.
If the iMac refresh was worth a damn- I would have upgraded my 2010.
Not that I'd ever buy the current iMacs but wasn't the last release fairly decent for a silent update?
Easily the most underwhelming iMac update I've seen. 2014 should be the year of the Retina iMac and Fusion drive being standard. That would actually be an impressive update.
I actually see a retina iMac being a ways off. This mostly due to the niche the machine fills and they need for a high performance GPU.
The future of computing/consuming is Tablets 1st, and Desktops 2nd. Laptops will be a thing of the past before the traditional desktop.
Interesting because I'm starting to believe this more and more myself. I expect that within a generation or two tablets will have displaced laptops for many users. Not everybody of course but it just makes more sense to go the desktop route for more reliability and performance. That is personally professionally I don't see laptops going anywhere as you need the I/O.
Apples problem is that their desktop line sucks had when it comes to this reality. I'm hoping Mac Pro is a sign of a desktop shake up at Apple that drives the move away from a focus on Mac Laptops.
Of course, tablet (or even phone) docking will likely replace the desktop eventually. Unfortunately, the next several generations of Intel chips are all portability/power consumption focused... they're a giant, sinking ship.
It would be funny to see Apple purchase Intel just to get their fabs. It would be even funnier if they discontinued the i86 chips.
As for an iPhone or tablet powerful enough to dock and transform into a workstation at your desk, that is a few years off though I do see it happening. The problem is iOS just doesn't cut it for such a machine so Apple has a lot of work to do here.
The MBP should be getting a twice yearly update to keep it competitive, if this was the case then a delay such as thunderbolt 2 wouldn't be such an impact. We basically have the situation where people has been putting off a purchase for many months now.
The vast majority of MBPs I see are 13" models used by corporate users, the only thunderbolt accessory they use is a VGA adapter. Just release an updated 13" now without TB2.
Twice yearly? You serious?
I can't wait to buy an iMac to replace my G5. Yes I still use a G5. Unfortunately I need to buy a car first.
These numbers are estimates pulled out of some analysts's ass just like every other prediction they make. They shook the bones, rattled the feathered skull, smoked some peyote, and let loose their best guess. We'll see when the real numbers come out.
Either way, though, Apple is doomed. This much we know for sure.
Mac Pro updates that were old at the time of release hasn't helped matters.
Delayed updates to the mini haven't helped matters.
The need for an ethernet dongle on a pro laptop hasn't helped. (Furthermore, the ethernet MAC address is associated with the dongle, not the laptop, which adds to the chore of management.)
There are a couple other reasons why Apple's Share is shrinking
1) Win8... to run win8 most people buy new PCs... it's usually the easiest and cheapest way to upgrade.
2) OSX Lion/Mavericks.... to run the latest version of Mac's OS most people... upgrade their current device to the current OS on their current machine.
3) Average useful lifespan of an Mac product is arguably 1.5-2X the length of a PC product (ARGUABLY - Mac laptops are typically more sturdy, and with a greater percentage having no spinning disk, this makes them more reliable, and with less spamware (not no, but less), they degrade over time a bit better than your XP/SP2 or Win7 system.
1 & 2) This is true to an extent. Most PC users never update the OS on their boxes. The simple fact here is it's not that easy to do for most people - I guess that's what happens when you aren't in total control of both hardware and software like Apple.
3 - Completely bogus. Sorry, but, my desktop PC - the one I'm using right now. Is on the verge of turning 7 years old. It's core 2 duo machine that I actually originally received with Windows XP and has been upgraded right on through Windows Vista, 7, and currently running Windows 8. Basically, with a few spec upgrades (more memory, a couple additional drives, a new video card at one point) - it's just kept on going. And, I know lot and lots of people that are in the same boat. The fact is that PC's got fast enough for most users a long time ago - and "if it ain't broke, why fix it" applies here. People aren't buying new PC's because the software isn't driving the need to buy new hardware as often. The upgrade cycle has definitely gotten longer. Before this machine, I used to upgrade about every 2 years - now, I'm just now getting ready to finally retire this machine - for a brand new Surface Pro 2 and a docking station
The new iMac's are nice. But, no DVD drive built in or even hope of Blu-ray. Thunderbolt ports with nothing to plug into it other than a couple of high priced HDDs i cant even find at my local Best Buy. No touch screen like many Windows 8 PCs now enjoy. Having to reach behind the iMac to plug in an SD card or USB memory stick is downright awkward and backwards, bordering on the impossible at times. I have a 2011 iMac which I love, but may be my last iMac. Dell's latest 27 inch All in one, is pretty compelling. Hdmi in, Blu-Ray, touchscreen, are all there. Other PC makers offer you these extras too. No matter what Apple's ideals are, people still want these options in their PCs. Granted a lot of Apples sales are now iPads, but, there will always be a market for people who need and want the versatility and the power of a full blown PC. We still watch DVDs and Blu-rays. Many of us have capped internet plans, so steaming everything or downloading media is not an option. We still would like to use our huge 27 inch monitors for our Xbox's or PS3's(once an option on iMac's). Even on the MacPro side, expandability, has become limited to a mass of wires. Apple has lost its way for me. Apple keeps taking away options. iTunes is definitely one motivation for them. Make it dramatically easier to download something rather than just pop in a disc. I guess I'm part of the marketshare Apple is no longer interested in keeping. This is shortsighted. Android tablets are getting better and better with each passing year. iOS 7 just looks horrid on an iPad. So marketshare will shrink there too in time. I love OSX. I love iOS 6. The hardware is not enough to keep me buying anymore. Maybe Its just time to move back to Windows. SIGH....
I'd like to buy more Macs, but they are too expensive, especially with this economy. A basic computer does all the basic things, and people don't upgrade as often. So, you have to see if they grew against the rest of the vendors, which it seems that they did not, because they want higher profit margins, and don't care to sell more units. So, what's new? Apple keeps their stuff expensive, and people buy less of them.
The new iMac's are nice. But, no DVD drive built in or even hope of Blu-ray. Thunderbolt ports with nothing to plug into it other than a couple of high priced HDDs i cant even find at my local Best Buy. No touch screen like many Windows 8 PCs now enjoy. Having to reach behind the iMac to plug in an SD card or USB memory stick is downright awkward and backwards, bordering on the impossible at times. I have a 2011 iMac which I love, but may be my last iMac. Dell's latest 27 inch All in one, is pretty compelling. Hdmi in, Blu-Ray, touchscreen, are all there. Other PC makers offer you these extras too. No matter what Apple's ideals are, people still want these options in their PCs. Granted a lot of Apples sales are now iPads, but, there will always be a market for people who need and want the versatility and the power of a full blown PC. We still watch DVDs and Blu-rays. Many of us have capped internet plans, so steaming everything or downloading media is not an option. We still would like to use our huge 27 inch monitors for our Xbox's or PS3's(once an option on iMac's). Even on the MacPro side, expandability, has become limited to a mass of wires. Apple has lost its way for me. Apple keeps taking away options. iTunes is definitely one motivation for them. Make it dramatically easier to download something rather than just pop in a disc. I guess I'm part of the marketshare Apple is no longer interested in keeping. This is shortsighted. Android tablets are getting better and better with each passing year. iOS 7 just looks horrid on an iPad. So marketshare will shrink there too in time. I love OSX. I love iOS 6. The hardware is not enough to keep me buying anymore. Maybe Its just time to move back to Windows. SIGH....
Were do these people come from? The aliens from the Pacific Rim are more relatable.
But, no DVD drive built in or even hope of Blu-ray.
Whoop de fricking frick. Stay in the naughties, then.
Thunderbolt ports with nothing to plug into it other than a couple of high priced HDDs i cant even find at my local Best Buy.
Also everything from every other port available, yeah.
No touch screen…
Are you a gorilla or a moron?
…enjoy.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Having to reach behind the iMac to plug in an SD card or USB memory stick is downright awkward and backwards, bordering on the impossible at times.
How?
Dell's latest 27 inch All in one, is pretty compelling.
Enjoy your Schmidt.
We still would like to use our huge 27 inch monitors for our Xbox's or PS3's(once an option on iMac's).
“huge”… “27”” for “gaming”? Are you sure you know what you’re talking about?
Apple keeps taking away options.
Sure they do.
I guess I'm part of the marketshare Apple is no longer interested in keeping. This is shortsighted.
Yes, you’re part of the group of people who want to hold on to archaic technology and claim it’s the future. If we’re shortsighted, never sign me up for LASIK.
Android tablets are getting better and better with each passing year.
Thanks for the incorrect and terrible segue.
Maybe Its just time to move back to Windows. SIGH....
“Throw yourself in next time and rid us of your stupidity.”
Originally Posted by dillio
Apple keeps their stuff expensive, and people buy less of them.
My experience with the estimates by both Gartner and IDC are that they consistently underestimate Apple's shipments across the board. I remember early this year, both said that the Mac's marketshare in the US was going up, but one said that Mac sales would drop about 6.5% and the other said 9% (I forget which said what), while PC sales would drop 11%.
Actually, that quarter Mac shipments rose 1%. That's a large error, and they repeat it almost every time.
That's no guarantee it will be wrong again, but it will be interesting to see what Apple says.
Of course, Apple did just update the iMac. And despite a few people here dissing it, they've gotten pretty good reviews. We have to remember that Haswell has little performance advantage over Ivy bridge. The major improvement is in power usage.
As for the lack of an optical drive, well, I can just say that I rarely use one. My daughter hardly uses one, and my wife hardly uses one. Polling friends, most hardly use one. That doesn't mean that everyone hardly uses one, but it does mean that if you really do want one, you can get on and out it on your desk. A wonderful solution? Maybe not for some, but pretty fine.
The 2013 iMac isn't worth the upgrade from the 2010 iMac? a couple of processor revs better, faster memory, faster SSD/Fusion drives, 802.11ac, better GPU. Jeez, what more do you want? Retina? come on, that's not cost effective at this point in time. Who has a higher resolution 27inch monitor on the market? I haven't seen any that I'm aware of.
I never said that 2010 to 2013 wasn't significant. 2010 to 2011 was solid. 2011 to 2012 even with a slight price increase was worth it and was huge. 2012 to 2013 was the weakest refresh in the last decade for the iMac. I almost but at the 2012, but waited to see what the 2013 offered. What did it offer. Nothing different. AC, Pcei, and a processor that gave zero performance gains. Sorry- that's awful.
Comments
What's most noticeable in these stats is not really the drop by Apple, but rather the gain by Lenovo.
Wonder if this might be a wake-up call to Apple that convertibles are a big part of the future. Apple is well positioned to enter into this space, with just one tiny issue; namely, what software does it run?
The MBP should be getting a twice yearly update to keep it competitive, if this was the case then a delay such as thunderbolt 2 wouldn't be such an impact. We basically have the situation where people has been putting off a purchase for many months now.
The vast majority of MBPs I see are 13" models used by corporate users, the only thunderbolt accessory they use is a VGA adapter. Just release an updated 13" now without TB2.
err. define competitive? Apple's price point has always been along the lines of... you get a great computer for the price, and a great user experience with the OS and apps. But... if all you're looking at is pure price or price/performance, and the OS is a slight negative (for most PC users... it is... purely from 'better the devil you know' aspect), Apple will lose every time.
Apple's plan, and their sticking to it, is annual major updates, and maybe a market tweak (a better processor just came on, slightly more HDD, or a tweak of componentry) mid cycle. To do anymore, would thrash their user community and they would osborne (I'll wait 6 more months) a bit (I'm in that waiting mode... knowing that an MBA13 would 'do'... but I'm waiting to see what comes out this quarter...)
And well, I don't think they want to bifurcate their products with some having TB2 and some not (again, part of that planned unobsolescence mode... they'd rather not ship a device that in 6 months would be deprecated by their roadmap baseline technologies). Would you like to not have 802.11ac on your laptop... or get it now and have it when you finally update your router? Those are the sorts of things that make buying Apple HW an investment.
If the iMac refresh was worth a damn- I would have upgraded my 2010. Easily the most underwhelming iMac update I've seen. 2014 should be the year of the Retina iMac and Fusion drive being standard. That would actually be an impressive update.
The future of computing/consuming is Tablets 1st, and Desktops 2nd. Laptops will be a thing of the past before the traditional desktop. Of course, tablet (or even phone) docking will likely replace the desktop eventually. Unfortunately, the next several generations of Intel chips are all portability/power consumption focused... they're a giant, sinking ship.
The 2013 iMac isn't worth the upgrade from the 2010 iMac? a couple of processor revs better, faster memory, faster SSD/Fusion drives, 802.11ac, better GPU. Jeez, what more do you want? Retina? come on, that's not cost effective at this point in time. Who has a higher resolution 27inch monitor on the market? I haven't seen any that I'm aware of.
Apples problem is that their desktop line sucks had when it comes to this reality. I'm hoping Mac Pro is a sign of a desktop shake up at Apple that drives the move away from a focus on Mac Laptops.
It would be funny to see Apple purchase Intel just to get their fabs. It would be even funnier if they discontinued the i86 chips.
As for an iPhone or tablet powerful enough to dock and transform into a workstation at your desk, that is a few years off though I do see it happening. The problem is iOS just doesn't cut it for such a machine so Apple has a lot of work to do here.
Twice yearly? You serious?
I can't wait to buy an iMac to replace my G5. Yes I still use a G5. Unfortunately I need to buy a car first.
These numbers are estimates pulled out of some analysts's ass just like every other prediction they make. They shook the bones, rattled the feathered skull, smoked some peyote, and let loose their best guess. We'll see when the real numbers come out.
Either way, though, Apple is doomed. This much we know for sure.
Mac Pro updates that were old at the time of release hasn't helped matters.
Delayed updates to the mini haven't helped matters.
The need for an ethernet dongle on a pro laptop hasn't helped. (Furthermore, the ethernet MAC address is associated with the dongle, not the laptop, which adds to the chore of management.)
There are a couple other reasons why Apple's Share is shrinking
1) Win8... to run win8 most people buy new PCs... it's usually the easiest and cheapest way to upgrade.
2) OSX Lion/Mavericks.... to run the latest version of Mac's OS most people... upgrade their current device to the current OS on their current machine.
3) Average useful lifespan of an Mac product is arguably 1.5-2X the length of a PC product (ARGUABLY - Mac laptops are typically more sturdy, and with a greater percentage having no spinning disk, this makes them more reliable, and with less spamware (not no, but less), they degrade over time a bit better than your XP/SP2 or Win7 system.
1 & 2) This is true to an extent. Most PC users never update the OS on their boxes. The simple fact here is it's not that easy to do for most people - I guess that's what happens when you aren't in total control of both hardware and software like Apple.
3 - Completely bogus. Sorry, but, my desktop PC - the one I'm using right now. Is on the verge of turning 7 years old. It's core 2 duo machine that I actually originally received with Windows XP and has been upgraded right on through Windows Vista, 7, and currently running Windows 8. Basically, with a few spec upgrades (more memory, a couple additional drives, a new video card at one point) - it's just kept on going. And, I know lot and lots of people that are in the same boat. The fact is that PC's got fast enough for most users a long time ago - and "if it ain't broke, why fix it" applies here. People aren't buying new PC's because the software isn't driving the need to buy new hardware as often. The upgrade cycle has definitely gotten longer. Before this machine, I used to upgrade about every 2 years - now, I'm just now getting ready to finally retire this machine - for a brand new Surface Pro 2 and a docking station
It's over.
I'd like to buy more Macs, but they are too expensive, especially with this economy. A basic computer does all the basic things, and people don't upgrade as often. So, you have to see if they grew against the rest of the vendors, which it seems that they did not, because they want higher profit margins, and don't care to sell more units. So, what's new? Apple keeps their stuff expensive, and people buy less of them.
Were do these people come from? The aliens from the Pacific Rim are more relatable.
Whoop de fricking frick. Stay in the naughties, then.
Also everything from every other port available, yeah.
Are you a gorilla or a moron?
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
How?
Enjoy your Schmidt.
“huge”… “27”” for “gaming”? Are you sure you know what you’re talking about?
Sure they do.
Yes, you’re part of the group of people who want to hold on to archaic technology and claim it’s the future. If we’re shortsighted, never sign me up for LASIK.
Thanks for the incorrect and terrible segue.
“Throw yourself in next time and rid us of your stupidity.”
Utter tripe and you know it.
Actually, that quarter Mac shipments rose 1%. That's a large error, and they repeat it almost every time.
That's no guarantee it will be wrong again, but it will be interesting to see what Apple says.
Of course, Apple did just update the iMac. And despite a few people here dissing it, they've gotten pretty good reviews. We have to remember that Haswell has little performance advantage over Ivy bridge. The major improvement is in power usage.
As for the lack of an optical drive, well, I can just say that I rarely use one. My daughter hardly uses one, and my wife hardly uses one. Polling friends, most hardly use one. That doesn't mean that everyone hardly uses one, but it does mean that if you really do want one, you can get on and out it on your desk. A wonderful solution? Maybe not for some, but pretty fine.
Were do these people come from? The aliens from the Pacific Rim are more relatable.
Post of the thread!
I never said that 2010 to 2013 wasn't significant. 2010 to 2011 was solid. 2011 to 2012 even with a slight price increase was worth it and was huge. 2012 to 2013 was the weakest refresh in the last decade for the iMac. I almost but at the 2012, but waited to see what the 2013 offered. What did it offer. Nothing different. AC, Pcei, and a processor that gave zero performance gains. Sorry- that's awful.