Delta Airlines to distribute Surface 2 to pilots after iPad trial

1234568

Comments

  • Reply 141 of 163
    Delta will account for 80% of surface 2 sales
  • Reply 142 of 163
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Lord Amhran View Post



    One would think Delta was quietly testing these Surface2's along side the iPads to have come to such an about face no? As others have mentioned I would imagine the BYOD movement would have more sway and people would continue to bring whatever devices they choose.



    Then again Delta is probably going to implement their own custom software on these tablets in much the same fashion as Amazon does with Android (though not to that extent) to force their employees to use the Surface2's.

     

    First of all, BYOD simply doesn't work in the airline industry. Second, Delta committed to using the Lumia smartphones a few months ago. So extending that commitment to Surface 2 is not surprising. Third, Avanade is developing POS software customized for Delta and based on the Microsoft Dynamics. So Delta is not just buying Surface 2 devices; they have bought into an integrated Microsoft system.

  • Reply 143 of 163
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MacHarry de View Post



    Delta #1 to crash customers life by a cheap IT dominated decision while the CFO rules Delta and not the CEOs Strategy.



    I will never fly this shitty jet

     

    People like you crack me up.  Swearing off flying Delta just because they're picking a Surface for their flight book.  Really?  I certainly trust them to know their business better than you do.  I certainly find the decision curious as well, especially since the iPad is more popular and is already being used for the same purpose by other airlines.  But never flying them again?  Please.  What a juvenile response.  I'm not about to throw away my Skymiles because they committed the cardinal sin of not using an Apple product.  

  • Reply 144 of 163
    Enjoy having three hands, freak. :p

    Why would you need three hands just because the Surface can show 2 or 3 apps side by side?

    Are you saying that when I'm using my Windows or Mac PC that I would need 7 mice if I have 7 application windows open?
  • Reply 145 of 163
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 2,074member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

     

     

    Pilots don't need live tiles.    They need to read their manuals, which I believe are PDF files.   And that clickity-clack keyboard isn't so clickity-clack - it's very mushy and hard to type on.  Furthermore, where are they going to set this down in order to use the keyboard - it doesn't work so well in your lap, even if it were a decent keyboard.

     

    As others, I think Microsoft probably gave them a deal they couldn't refuse and Apple probably didn't.   And I bet they had a conservative IT department with some head who still thought that Apple products are toys.  

     

    As for those people who claim that you're not going to fly Delta anymore, I think that's completely ridiculous.    Do you check each component on the plane to see who manufactured it?   Do you check Delta's offices to see if they use Apple products or not?    If a restaurant has an electronic menu system for the waiters on a Pad that's not Apple's, do you not eat there?     Get over your fanboyism - it's absurd.  

     

    If they're rolling out 10,000 units, a $200 price differential is $2 million.   If you're an executive there making this decision, you have to rationalize why you'd spend $2 million more.  Could you beyond, "well, I like Apple better"?     The only case you'd have is that the Windows Surface is so far a disaster and they could be discontinued in the future.   


     

    IT departments will say that the Surface will be much cheaper to support and thus save way more than $ 2M.

     

    Of course maybe Delta is thinking they don't want their pilots and coPilots getting sick and throwing up from the iPad with new iOS7.

     

    Either way Microsoft will push hard with the new Surface Pro 2 to get into these corporate accounts.   The have the resources to make their software better and will push to make it easier for corporate clients to convert legacy apps to Windows8.x on the Surface.   Personally I still think Surface and Pro 2 are still over priced for consumers but you don't know what sort of deal Delta got.

  • Reply 146 of 163
    k2kw wrote: »
    IT departments will say that the Surface will be much cheaper to support and thus save way more than $ 2M.

    Of course maybe Delta is thinking they don't want their pilots and coPilots getting sick and throwing up from the iPad with new iOS7.

    Either way Microsoft will push hard with the new Surface Pro 2 to get into these corporate accounts.   The have the resources to make their software better and will push to make it easier for corporate clients to convert legacy apps to Windows8.x on the Surface.   Personally I still think Surface and Pro 2 are still over priced for consumers but you don't know what sort of deal Delta got.

    There are other reasons why Surface would have been preferable -

    1. Windows RT supports multiple user accounts, which means that a device doesn't need to belong to a specific member of staff. They just login on any devices, and all their specific apps and accounts are available. Different staff might have a different set of apps installed. It makes managing the devices much more flexible.

    2. For extra lock-down if required, kiosk mode (Assigned Access is the official name) allows the device to boot up and launch into a specific app (set by admin) and stay there. The only way to exit the app is to shut down the device. Again, this is dependent on which user logs in, therefore some staff might be locked in kiosk mode, while others have access to a range of corporate apps.
  • Reply 147 of 163
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dysamoria View Post



    PS: these are manual carriers, not integrated systems. No matter what device they use, there's no crashing caused by them (unless they get into a serious issue requiring manuals to be relied upon in a critical moment).

     

    Controllers will always read out standard arrivals and departures and approach details upon request.  Also, these planes still have EFIS systems with built in approach databases.  Without a pad at all, most of these planes can fly automatically to just above touchdown, and some can even autoland.

     

    If all else fails, they get an ASR (Airport Surveillance Radar) approach, where the controller navigates and the pilots fly.

     

    I can't imagine the Surface is the best device, but it's not a safety issue.

  • Reply 148 of 163
    Great. Hackable devices in cockpits. See Die Hard 2.
  • Reply 149 of 163
    Originally Posted by WP7Mango View Post

    Why would you need three hands just because the Surface can show 2 or 3 apps side by side?

     

    For “true” multitasking, as seems to be the goal.

     
    Are you saying that when I'm using my Windows or Mac PC that I would need 7 mice if I have 7 application windows open?

     

    Good luck controlling seven applications simultaneously with one cursor, at least.

  • Reply 150 of 163

    Evidently not quite as stupid as you if you think these are needed/used for flying the plane.

  • Reply 151 of 163
    I just read elsewhere that the Delta pilots fought hard for the iPad but the Airline said, "No." Maybe the asurface RT 2 will work just as well for the purpose, but it just doesn't small right. An untried product does not sound like a good idea regardless.
  • Reply 152 of 163
    Loser's expressions of frustration.... :) If few iSheeps do not fly in Delta they will not go bankrupt...!
  • Reply 153 of 163
    For “true” multitasking, as seems to be the goal.

    Good luck controlling seven applications simultaneously with one cursor, at least.

    Not sure I understand your point...

    I only need one mouse cursor to manage multiple windows and arrange them so that I can view several on the screen at the same time, and then I can interact with each one how I choose whilst the other windows remain visible at all times.

    Similarly, on the Surface, you use one hand to arrange the two or three apps side by side, and then you can view them all at the same time. Viewing requires no hands - just your eyes. Then you simply interact with each one without losing visual focus of the others.
  • Reply 154 of 163

    CAVEAT: I know this is an Apple form. With that said, I am ready for the Flame....

    The iPads / Surfaces / Android whatever's are only for use to read manuals. To quote various posts, the nav data that aircraft use are built into the plane in CRETIFIED systems approved by the FAA to Navigate. So really a non issue.

    Now, contrary to belief, an iPad mini and a surface RT live peacefully in my house. The don't try to bite each other, I don't have to keep them in separate rooms, The ipad does not try to hump the Surfacs's kick stand, the Surface dosent try to pee on the iPad. I primarily use my Surface for schoolwork (I have the Typecover) and in that capacity it is great. My ipad mini is also used for schoolwork, but more to control things (I have a Celestron NC-8 / Advanced VX mount) that I use for celestial observations. The ipad does have a huge app advantage over the Surface RT, however after 3 months of use, the Surface has not BSOD on me, nor has it caught a virus (I attribute this more to the ARM chipset than Windows itself) or any of the other traditional problems with windows devices.

    As for map data, with the partnership with Nokia, (which owns NAVTEQ) I think the maps in a Surface is much more credible that iPad (we all remember iOS6 maps :)

    I think to really be competitive, I think they could sell the Surface 2 at $300 and be moderately successful. Not to the level of the iPad, but definitely a better choice than the hordes of cheap android devices on the market.
  • Reply 155 of 163
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by vincent.pendleton View Post





    CAVEAT: I know this is an Apple form. With that said, I am ready for the Flame....



    The iPads / Surfaces / Android whatever's are only for use to read manuals. To quote various posts, the nav data that aircraft use are built into the plane in CRETIFIED systems approved by the FAA to Navigate. So really a non issue.



    Now, contrary to belief, an iPad mini and a surface RT live peacefully in my house. The don't try to bite each other, I don't have to keep them in separate rooms, The ipad does not try to hump the Surfacs's kick stand, the Surface dosent try to pee on the iPad. I primarily use my Surface for schoolwork (I have the Typecover) and in that capacity it is great. My ipad mini is also used for schoolwork, but more to control things (I have a Celestron NC-8 / Advanced VX mount) that I use for celestial observations. The ipad does have a huge app advantage over the Surface RT, however after 3 months of use, the Surface has not BSOD on me, nor has it caught a virus (I attribute this more to the ARM chipset than Windows itself) or any of the other traditional problems with windows devices.



    As for map data, with the partnership with Nokia, (which owns NAVTEQ) I think the maps in a Surface is much more credible that iPad (we all remember iOS6 maps image



    I think to really be competitive, I think they could sell the Surface 2 at $300 and be moderately successful. Not to the level of the iPad, but definitely a better choice than the hordes of cheap android devices on the market.

     

    while your arguments are bordering on credible, your spelling (don't Caps your spelling mistakes!!!) may be your downfall..  

     

    And your logic appears to be neophytic.

    1) apple iPad isn't BSODing on you either.  Yet, you're saying the Surface 2 (a new device running Intel Win8) won't BSOD?  that's quite an extrapolation.

    2) Nokia isn't a partner anymore… it's a transaction away from being a competitor again (selling off phone division to MS)

    3) you have no idea what selling an Surface 2 for $300 will do to MS's stock price.  Gone are the days when they can compete at a loss to buy market share.   Office and Windows are cash cows no more, therefore products have to stand on their own, define a market, and drive others to the defensive.  Ballmer's retirement is the embodiment of that flaw in the last 4 major HW products coming out of Redmond (Surface, WinPhone, Kin, Zune).   If that strategy fails, Ballmer's successor maybe in the "Write 2 letters" mode of his career.

    4) The world is trying to avoid '2' devices.   Most people can't afford internet at home, and 2 tablets and a high end telescope with an automated mount.   Those that do, number in the sub percents of the market MS is trying to sell into.  The market is  trying move from at a desktop, a laptop, a phone, a game device, and an music player (5 devices), to at most 2 devices… a phone and a laptop or tablet.   

    The two tablet person is the exception in the market, not the rule.

    5) Actually most people DON'T remember maps.   'Remembering' maps isn't the same as 'maps' today.    And a couple million people are buying iOS devices this week who haven't used Maps.

     

    All that said, the Surface 2 /iPad in the cockpit is a glorified Kindle.  and we agree that it doesn't need to do much, and if Delta can make a better financial deal with MSFT, more power to them.  But don't try to justify it being the right device for everyone based on your experience, and unrealistic pricing tactic.  If that was the case HP would be leading the world in Tablets.

  • Reply 156 of 163
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,383member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by vincent.pendleton View Post





    CAVEAT: I know this is an Apple form. With that said, I am ready for the Flame....



    The iPads / Surfaces / Android whatever's are only for use to read manuals. To quote various posts, the nav data that aircraft use are built into the plane in CRETIFIED systems approved by the FAA to Navigate. So really a non issue.



    Now, contrary to belief, an iPad mini and a surface RT live peacefully in my house. The don't try to bite each other, I don't have to keep them in separate rooms, The ipad does not try to hump the Surfacs's kick stand, the Surface dosent try to pee on the iPad. I primarily use my Surface for schoolwork (I have the Typecover) and in that capacity it is great. My ipad mini is also used for schoolwork, but more to control things (I have a Celestron NC-8 / Advanced VX mount) that I use for celestial observations. The ipad does have a huge app advantage over the Surface RT, however after 3 months of use, the Surface has not BSOD on me, nor has it caught a virus (I attribute this more to the ARM chipset than Windows itself) or any of the other traditional problems with windows devices.



    As for map data, with the partnership with Nokia, (which owns NAVTEQ) I think the maps in a Surface is much more credible that iPad (we all remember iOS6 maps image



    I think to really be competitive, I think they could sell the Surface 2 at $300 and be moderately successful. Not to the level of the iPad, but definitely a better choice than the hordes of cheap android devices on the market.

     

    Please do spell check before you press the submit button..

     

    Apple form?  No.  It's FORUM.

    CRETIFIED?  No.  It's CERTIFIED.

    "ready FOR the Flame"???  HUH.   Please tell me you haven't finished 3rd grade.  PLEASE tell me that our education system is not THAT bad.

     

     

    The software and data these pilots are using is specialty software and data created by a software company called Jeppesen or another company that specializes on navigation software for the airline industry.  They aren't using Google Maps or Nokia NAVTEQ to navigate an airplane.  They use VERY specialized software apps for these airlines.

     

    RT doesn't have any viruses because of sandboxing and other things, which is why Apple also doesn't have viruses, plus who would bother writing a virus for a product where they haven't only sold 1 million units.  No one would care.  They are focusing on Android since it's EASY to write a virus for it as the majority of users are using old OS that's got lots of holes with which to exploit.  BTW, I haven't gotten a virus on my Mac or IPad or iPhone, yet I've had very bad viruses on older version of Windows, and it got to the point where I dropped using Windows and I  wasn't being forced to use Windows.  I won't use Windows unless I have no other choice.

     

    Apple's Maps program has been going through it's ongoing fixes, just like ALL Maps programs, even Google Maps has had issues recently.  It's all about how good the data is that these companies get from their data suppliers.

     

    I think Windows 8 interface is just scaring people away from Windows.  It's just not that easy to use, regardless of all of those so-called features.  The problem that Windows, Android have always had is how to make something easy to use.  That's what they don't know how to do, they know how to add features, but when it gets to a point where it's not so easy to use, it turns people off.  Being easy to use makes people more likely to use it and for longer periods of time without problems.  I have friend's with Android products and it takes them about a minute to do something that takes seconds.    Windows RT has an even worse problem since it won't even run Windows 7 apps on it.  Android captured a lot of people, because they have a lot of companies putting out lots of products with more carriers in more countries and they cover more ranges of customer between the price and screen size.  I think once Apple spits out a 5 inch (or thereabouts), and starts adding more carriers and more countries, over time Apple will capture the majority of the large screen market.  Apple already owns the 4inch market in the US and will own that market, which is what sells the most.  The larger screens are catching up, but the ultra low end $400 and less phones, I don't know if Apple will ever go after that market because they would have to cut costs to the point where the product would be a piece of junk that can't run the latest OS.   They leave that market to Android because there are enough clueless Android users that don't even know what the latest version OS is, and they don't care. Remember, the only Android phones that run the latest OS are the Google Nexus 4 and there is basically one phone they can choose from and that's even crippled in some ways depending on the market.  With that said.  Apple is obviously getting in to the 64 Bit ARM products before anyone else and the apps will just get better and better.

  • Reply 157 of 163
    Actually I was typing that post on my iPad in the airport, so excuse my misspellings. Now that I am on a desktop with a keyboard, you English teacher you :)

    As a retired air controller, I think I am pretty qualified to talk about aviation navigation systems. So as I stated before, the maps issues that other users in the thread are discussing in reality is a non issue, in the fact that it does not matter WHAT tablet goes into the cockpit. Bottom line is they will not use ANY tablet to navigate off of.

    The point I WAS making about Surface is that it is using NAVTEQ data that is supplied by Nokia, which we all know, is in cahoots with M$, thanks to Stephen Elop. While your statement is true that all geodetic databases have inaccuracies (even the ones from NGA), the Maps application on Surface has data from a proven and trusted provider.

    I will agree that there is a steep learning curve for Windows 8. It is not something that you just pick up and gain full functionality from the get go. You have to spend a little time with it. I will say for some reason though, my Apple friends (which I call them isheep with affection :) ) are quicker to pick up on how to get around on my Surface, than Windows 7 and below users. Things are a bit simpler in Windows 8 and that is the problem, windows users have been conditioned for things to be complex and difficult.

    However, I still stick by my comment that a $200 - $250 Surface would sell quite well. I like the fact that RT is sandboxed and doesn't try to do everything that say a Surface PRO does. Windows 7 (or Legacy programs) do not run well on touch. And the fact now all the products in the Windows 8 family (PRO, RT, Phone) share a common NT kernel, porting apps to all the platforms in the windows ecosystem is a simple affair.

    While I will not say that 64 bit ARM is a marketing gimmick, it will be a while before developers take full advantage of the hardware (PC users know this all to well when the first 64 bit processors came around). But you need to put the hardware out for developers to develop on. It's a double edge sword.

    drblank I thank you for an intelligent discussion (with the exception of a little flame in the beginning :smokey:) but I know everyone on here is [S]passionate[/S]. As I alluded to in my first post, there is room in my bag for the Surface and iPad to coexist.
  • Reply 158 of 163
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by vincent.pendleton View Post



    As a retired air controller, I think I am pretty qualified to talk about aviation navigation systems. 

     

     

    How's that ???  

  • Reply 159 of 163
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,513member
    Tesla Model S does not use Android. Tesla created its own custom OS which has no relationship to Android. I own one and drive it on a daily basis. NOT ANDROID!

    In the past couple of days Tesla's Musk announced they will be moving the browser to Google Chrome and would soon add an Android emulator.
  • Reply 160 of 163
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

    In the past couple of days Tesla's Musk announced they will be moving the browser to Google Chrome and would soon add an Android emulator.

     

    How do I personally get into contact with him to let him know how terrifyingly bad an idea this is?

     

    I’ll send him a paper letter if I have to.

Sign In or Register to comment.