They can't. the first problem with these DIY idiots is that there is NO SUCH THING AS A XEON motherboard with Thunderbolt 2 ports on it. END OF STORY, don't even bother comparing ANYTHING, because it's NOT THE SAME processor.
SSD at 1250mbps? That costs around $1000 or more. Seriously, it's not even worth doing the investigation. NOTHING exists at this time.
... there is NO SUCH THING AS A XEON motherboard with Thunderbolt 2 ports on it
Yes, that's why I figured the price differential (about $1000 or so) accounts for the unique architecture of the Mac Pro. Read the first two of my posts in this thread. I stated my assumptions therein.
I work in a Windows environment but I don't want a giant workstation box to put somewhere. I switched to a MacBook Pro that sits on my desktop, closed, flat, used as another surface, plugged into my monitor, keyboard and mouse. I just set the power savings control panel to not put the computer to sleep when the lid is closed.
Why not use an iMac? Because it doesn't have a video input, and I'm required to use my work Dell laptop to connect to my work's network, so I have to connect a second laptop to my same monitor on my desk at home, (which has multiple inputs.)
Why not use a personal PC laptop to run Windows at home too? Because they are bulky, slow, cheap plastic crap with short battery life for the same price as a MBP.
I built the first 6-core i7 Extreme a few years ago and put up with the huge and loud do-it-yourself box because that was the only way I could get the speed. Now the Macbook Pro i7 4-core is just as fast but without the bulk, plastic, or noise.
I have every intention of getting the new Mac Pro to run Windows in Dec. as it's even faster, (I've been at the same speed now for 3 years,) and the bottom line is that I now need to run more servers in VMWARE Workstation at one time and can't on a laptop that only holds 16 GB RAM. I need for my learning environment: Win2012 AD Domain Controller, SQL Server 2012, SharePoint 2013 App, SharePoint 2013 Web, etc. I'm at 15.8 GB used right now with no room to grow.
The new Mac Pro looks awsome for running Windows fast, in my living room next to my recliner without the bulk or noise!
You missed my point, or, more likely, I failed to explain it.
Many businesses tend to standardise on equipment. It makes logistic and support tasks easier, and also gives you some extra flexibility - you can use same docking station for number of laptops (good for hotdesks) or you can easily remove HDD from otherwise dead machine, put it in same working machine and keep working... among other things.
Thus if they are already with Dell, HP or Lenovo... they are more likely to remain there.
And you can get decent workstations from either. Not as petit as new MB, but with some nice perks of their own - dual CPUs, more memory slots, more space for storage, easier to upgrade/expand graphics etc (boards in new MP look very custom).
(You can also get decent laptops on Windows side of equation these days, made of premium materials and with good battery life, if you want to spend money comparable to Apple counterparts, but I do agree that MBPs look really nice - even if they do run on higher end of temperature range, under load)
I did some reading on new MP. It is really clever design, but I cannot find info on some parts - for example, what is power supply in that box, and what power does high-end option of MP pull under full load (if anyone managed to come across such info, please share). If I'd have to preorder one of these with what I know so far, I admit I'd be a bit nervous. I'm not saying that it is impossible to achieve, but I do think that having all that powerful hardware running under full load for hours (or days) while remaining in safe thermal zone - and quiet fan - and not having to throttle down is one hell of an achievement, and not something easy to get.
You missed my point, or, more likely, I failed to explain it.
Many businesses tend to standardise on equipment. It makes logistic and support tasks easier, and also gives you some extra flexibility - you can use same docking station for number of laptops (good for hotdesks) or you can easily remove HDD from otherwise dead machine, put it in same working machine and keep working... among other things.
Thus if they are already with Dell, HP or Lenovo... they are more likely to remain there.
And you can get decent workstations from either. Not as petit as new MB, but with some nice perks of their own - dual CPUs, more memory slots, more space for storage, easier to upgrade/expand graphics etc (boards in new MP look very custom).
(You can also get decent laptops on Windows side of equation these days, made of premium materials and with good battery life, if you want to spend money comparable to Apple counterparts, but I do agree that MBPs look really nice - even if they do run on higher end of temperature range, under load)
I did some reading on new MP. It is really clever design, but I cannot find info on some parts - for example, what is power supply in that box, and what power does high-end option of MP pull under full load (if anyone managed to come across such info, please share). If I'd have to preorder one of these with what I know so far, I admit I'd be a bit nervous. I'm not saying that it is impossible to achieve, but I do think that having all that powerful hardware running under full load for hours (or days) while remaining in safe thermal zone - and quiet fan - and not having to throttle down is one hell of an achievement, and not something easy to get.
The power supply is enough power for those processors, memory, but since it has no "SLOTS" or additional internal storage, it doesn't need HUGE power supplies. so if you buy an external PCI chassis, storage system, that has it's own power supply depending on the model you buy, so that's how they can make the MacPro as small as they did with only one large fan and heat sink.
The XEON boxes that you see on the market have lots of PCI slots and room for internal drives, so they NEED LOTS of fans, water cooling, big power supplies, but Apple changed the game to make the basic box smaller, cheaper and still retain lots of expandability.
I think the PC crowd is going to have to stick with very expensive, large, noisy and water cooled systems that need to get the fluids changed (what a hassle). Oh well.
Yes, that's why I figured the price differential (about $1000 or so) accounts for the unique architecture of the Mac Pro. Read the first two of my posts in this thread. I stated my assumptions therein.
I don't need to read anyone's ASSumptions. You shouldn't have any assumptions. Apple has a box that's just designed so radically different, users have to either adapt to how Apple is doing things, or if you want a XEON box, expect to pay more money for a larger box with lots of fans, possibly water cooling and big power supplies and have to get PCI slots for expensive memory, etc and probably might have to wait for someone else to adopt Thunderbolt 2 ports in a XEON configuration.
Fast SSD is only available on PCI card slots right now and that's $1000 or more just for that.
First things first, there is NO XEON motherboard that has Thunderbolt or Thunderbolt 2 ports. Apple is it at this time.
Add motherboard, storage, power supply, case. Plus, "pro" grade graphics are usually more expensive than consumer/enthusiast parts based on same tech.
But in some scenarios this is irrelevant. If you are working in FCP or any other OSX-speciffic software, you simply need Mac.
On the other hand, if you are working in Windows environment, you will probably not be considering Macs in general.
Don't even bother trying to reason with someone that's trying to price out a comparable box. They don't exist. There is NO XEON based motherboard that has Thunderbolt 2 ports on it. All Thunderbolt 2 motherboards made by clone mfg are simply Haswell i5/i7 based chips, NOT XEON. So there is absolutely NOTHING on the market from ANY PC or Clone mfg. NOTHING. ZERO, ZIP, NADA.
1300W EVGA SuperNOVA G2 80PLUS Gold 90%+ Eff' Full Modular Power Supply £148.96 inc VAT
£4250...
Even if you swap out cheaper parts, at best you're still going to be looking at something in the ball-park of £2500, and even then you'd have no thunderbolt 2 etc
1300W EVGA SuperNOVA G2 80PLUS Gold 90%+ Eff' Full Modular Power Supply £148.96 inc VAT
£4250...
Even if you swap out cheaper parts, at best you're still going to be looking at something in the ball-park of £2500, and even then you'd have no thunderbolt 2 etc
Um. This isn't a XEON/Thunderbolt 2 motherboard, so it's a FAIL. Sorry. Plus, I'm not sure the box/PSU will support the configuration.
Your first mistake is using a NON-XEON/Thunderbolt 2 motherboard, which DO NOT exist. So, any comparisons that ANYONE makes is NOT even close. Sorry, but you just wasted your time and everyone else's.
Please, seriously, go to this site to see what motherboards are available and NOTICE that they are NOT XEON motherboards they are i5/i7 2nd, 3rd, or 4th gen but NOT XEON. plus the only Thunderbolt 2 based motherboards are i5/i7 not XEON.
When configuring XEON boxes with multiple GPUs, fast SSD storage, etc., they have to make sure the power supply is big enough and that it has proper cooling, otherwise the box will shut down or have frequent component failure due to improper cooling or not a big enough power supply.
If you go to HP's site, in order to configure a box with multiple GPU cards with 6G or RAM, and a 8 core processor, I think they need upgraded power supplies and water cooling and those boxes start costing more like $10K or more. Yeah, you get internal storage cages and PCI slots, but STILL no Thunderbolt (1 or 2) ports. So, at this point it's moot, nothing is comparable on the market.
Apple has to look at next year's generation processors. They might have to end up making a bigger box with a bigger fan/heatsink or a taller cylinder, so they have to design it based on what processors/GPUs they plan on using. It's not so simple as you want it to be, that's why they had to redesign the box specifically for the processor options.
In the old S-100 days, they had a back plane and you just swapped cards out, but those days are long gone.
Don't even think it's as easy as just swapping out guts out of a system. It probably will never be that easy.
I guess you're right. I bought SGI workstations in the 90s, so this new Mac Pro is way more affordable than the prices SGI usually gave me, which were always shocking, specially when you wanted textured graphics (until they released the O2, when hardware textured graphics became affordable, at about $6000, and this is my favorite machine I've ever owned).
However, quite a few years have passed, and I don't see myself paying the same price of an O2, no matter how I loved the O2.
But... as others said... this new Mac Pro has one fan only... and this is very tempting for me, because I value quietness a lot.
Even if I'd like to be able to upgrade the Xeon in the future, and even if I don't need dual GPUs (just a good NVIDIA GPU would be fine for me), however, getting a powerful machine which is also very silent, is very tempting for me...
As I said before, I don't think I will buy it with just 4 cores... I think the Mac Pro becomes interesting for at least 6 cores.
I guess you're right. I bought SGI workstations in the 90s, so this new Mac Pro is way more affordable than the prices SGI usually gave me, which were always shocking, specially when you wanted textured graphics (until they released the O2, when hardware textured graphics became affordable, at about $6000, and this is my favorite machine I've ever owned).
However, quite a few years have passed, and I don't see myself paying the same price of an O2, no matter how I loved the O2.
But... as others said... this new Mac Pro has one fan only... and this is very tempting for me, because I value quietness a lot.
Even if I'd like to be able to upgrade the Xeon in the future, and even if I don't need dual GPUs (just a good NVIDIA GPU would be fine for me), however, getting a powerful machine which is also very silent, is very tempting for me...
As I said before, I don't think I will buy it with just 4 cores... I think the Mac Pro becomes interesting for at least 6 cores.
it all depends on what apps you are doing. For some GPU is more important than CPU, for some its the other way around and for others, they just want the maximum they can get.
I really wish Apple would make a similar design but with i7 inside with optional high end GPUs and get the base system down around $2K or so. I think that would make a compelling system for some.
By the way I'm not saying the hardware isn't worth it in this model, frankly I haven't even looked closely. What I'm saying is that Apple needs a model that can sell in volume to assure the mac Pros future. A desktop machine that starts at $3000 is just stupid.
I'm kind of leaning towards your thoughts on this. Yes the MacPro is geared towards the professional community but it's the pro-sumer where Apple will ultimately make it's money from the MacPro's. We will have to see how well they sell before we really can start criticizing Apple for their entry price but I personally don't foresee these being hot items because of it. Not to say that the MacPro isn't a bucket full of coolness, it's defiantly on top of my wish list of ultimate computers to have not so much for it's speed, as faster computers can be had for less but the design, man that beautiful design and overall cool factor.
So, at this point it's moot, nothing is comparable on the market.
Oh gosh that simply isn't true, yes the MacPro is a feat of engineering to able to put a Xeon CPU, dual GPU and a PCIe SSD into such a small space, a super sexy space but building one of theses XEON systems is a very simple thing to do, not too expensive anymore. Using Amazon and starting with a Barebones system from SuperMicro, this includes everything except the CPU's, GPU's, HD's and memory, the fans (except CPU fans, you have to install those after the CPU, logically), cables, motherboard, case, power-supply come assembled and installed;
I built one to compare with the 4,000 MacPro but as you can see it has a faster CPU, a dual socket motherboard so I can add an additional one later (when second CPU is added it will be faster than the MacPro 12 Core version), faster graphic cards with more memory, I can even add additional graphics cards for a total of 5(example; 2 ATI Crossfired and three Nvidia Tesla cards), a Supermicro barebones system so all you need to do is install the GPU, CPU, SSD and RAMS and then your off. I wouldn't use Windows 8 but CentOS (Linux64) which SuperMicro includes with the box and all components that I have selected have been tested with SuperMicro to work with the system.
Now it doesn't have a Thunderport port but if you really need one than Intel is starting to produce PCIe expansions cards, Asus has just introduced one and when Thunderport 2 is released I'm sure a new expansion card will be available shortly after for that as well. Not sure what you would use it for as this case has room for a 8 disk RAID and since we are using a PCIe SSD card, 4 more normal SSD drives.
Yes the thing is huge but it's meant to be used as a work machine and who cares what it looks like when it will sit under the desk, the SuperMicro is also ultra quiet, not sure what it would sound like if you added 5 GPU's though, wouldn't mind finding out though.
Ugly as sin but damn if 5 GPU's ain't sexy!
Now I'm not saying the MacPro isn't the coolest computer out there because it is but it is not the cheapest, the fastest or best overall, compromises will have to be made for using the MacPro. The biggest beeing, for me anyway, is you will be stuck with the configuration you make upon purchase for a very long time where as the monster above can grow with your needs. Just putting things in prospective here, the fact that the MacPro is an Apple is probably more than enough for most people so who cares. Yes, you can run OSX if you so desired on the machine above but I don't know about the 5 GPU's.
Just out of curiosity, why all the hubbub about Thunderport. I keep reading above, yea but it doesn't have Thunderport so your XEON configurations are a mute point, this and that, why. Okay yes, with the MacPro I fully understand, you don't have any internal expansion so you have nothing else but with a normal XEON desktop you do. I know Black Magicdesign has a really cool capture box but they also make a PCIe version and I could always buy a Thunderport card for my XEON workstation later if I will probably never need/want one. I personally use a NAS drive for my external storage needs, I do have 2 TB eSata/USB 3.0 drive for my portable needs but isn't eSata good enough for that? Monitors, HDMI and DisplayPort seem to working pretty good. I don't know, can someone explain why I would need it?
Oh gosh that simply isn't true, yes the MacPro is a feat of engineering to able to put a Xeon CPU, dual GPU and a PCIe SSD into such a small space, a super sexy space but building one of theses XEON systems is a very simple thing to do and not magic. Using Amazon;
I built one to compare with the 4,000 MacPro but as you can see it has a faster CPU, a dual socket motherboard so I can add an additional one later (when second CPU is added it will be faster than the MacPro 12 Core version), faster graphic cards with more memory, I can even add additional graphics cards for a total of 5(example; 2 ATI Crossfired and three Nvidia Tesla cards), a Supermicro barebones system so all you need to do is install the GPU, CPU, SSD and RAMS and then your off. I wouldn't use Windows 8 but CentOS (Linux64) which SuperMicro includes with the box and all components that I have selected have been tested with SuperMicro to work with the system.
Now it doesn't have a Thunderport port but if you really need one than Intel is starting to produce PCIe expansions cards, Asus has just introduced one and when Thunderport 2 is released I'm sure a new expansion card will be available shortly after for that as well. Not sure what you would use it for as this case has room for a 8 disk RAID and since we are using a PCIe SSD card, 4 more normal SSD drives.
Yes the thing is huge but it's meant to be used as a work machine and who cares what it looks like when it will sit under the desk, the SuperMicro is also ultra quiet, not sure what it would sound like if you added 5 GPU's though, wouldn't mind finding out though.
No one said anything about using Magic.
Sorry, but this POS system you hodge podged together is just a clone box and you don't have any single phone number to use for tech support. All of the repairs you have to do yourself, which you aren't factoring in, you have a box that doesn't have Thunderbolt 2 ports and doesn't legally run OS X. So just STOP IT.
It states in this recent article that there is no finalized Thunderbolt 2 PCI card slot specs from Intel and the ASUS card you spoke of hasn't been released to the market. obviously, this is based on an article dated August 2013 and I don't see any such card on ASUS' site and the ThunderboltEX PCIe is only a Thunderbolt 1, not Thunderbolt 2 card. No price either.
Oh gosh that simply isn't true, yes the MacPro is a feat of engineering to able to put a Xeon CPU, dual GPU and a PCIe SSD into such a small space, a super sexy space but building one of theses XEON systems is a very simple thing to do, not too expensive anymore. Using Amazon and starting with a Barebones system from SuperMicro, this includes everything except the CPU's, GPU's, HD's and memory, the fans (except CPU fans, you have to install those after the CPU, logically), cables, motherboard, case, power-supply come assembled and installed;
I built one to compare with the 4,000 MacPro but as you can see it has a faster CPU, a dual socket motherboard so I can add an additional one later (when second CPU is added it will be faster than the MacPro 12 Core version), faster graphic cards with more memory, I can even add additional graphics cards for a total of 5(example; 2 ATI Crossfired and three Nvidia Tesla cards), a Supermicro barebones system so all you need to do is install the GPU, CPU, SSD and RAMS and then your off. I wouldn't use Windows 8 but CentOS (Linux64) which SuperMicro includes with the box and all components that I have selected have been tested with SuperMicro to work with the system.
Now it doesn't have a Thunderport port but if you really need one than Intel is starting to produce PCIe expansions cards, Asus has just introduced one and when Thunderport 2 is released I'm sure a new expansion card will be available shortly after for that as well. Not sure what you would use it for as this case has room for a 8 disk RAID and since we are using a PCIe SSD card, 4 more normal SSD drives.
Yes the thing is huge but it's meant to be used as a work machine and who cares what it looks like when it will sit under the desk, the SuperMicro is also ultra quiet, not sure what it would sound like if you added 5 GPU's though, wouldn't mind finding out though.
Ugly as sin but damn if 5 GPU's ain't sexy!
Now I'm not saying the MacPro isn't the coolest computer out there because it is but it is not the cheapest, the fastest or best overall, compromises will have to be made for using the MacPro. The biggest beeing, for me anyway, is you will be stuck with the configuration you make upon purchase for a very long time where as the monster above can grow with your needs. Just putting things in prospective here, the fact that the MacPro is an Apple is probably more than enough for most people so who cares. Yes, you can run OSX if you so desired on the machine above but I don't know about the 5 GPU's.
Just out of curiosity, why all the hubbub about Thunderport. I keep reading above, yea but it doesn't have Thunderport so your XEON configurations are a mute point, this and that, why. Okay yes, with the MacPro I fully understand, you don't have any internal expansion so you have nothing else but with a normal XEON desktop you do. I know Black Magicdesign has a really cool capture box but they also make a PCIe version and I could always buy a Thunderport card for my XEON workstation later if I really need one but I'll never need 8 ports. I personally use a NAS drive for my external storage needs, I do have 2 TB eSata/USB 3.0 drive for my portable needs but isn't eSata good enough for that? Monitors, HDMI and DisplayPort seem to working pretty good. I don't know, can someone explain why I would need it?
Whatever Relic. You seem to not like Apple hardware, so GO AWAY.
Seriously, people that buy Apple products like them because they don't want to use a PC or a PC clone with Hackintosh BS because they want to get a computer that's got good support and has good resale value and only want one place to call and they don't have time to mess around trying to figure out what BS clone parts to order. Too much room for problems.
You just seem to want to put together a hobby computer that just wastes a LOT of time in trying to figure out what to buy, put together and support when it's so much easier and cheaper in the long run to just by a name brand product.
Sorry, but this POS system you hodge podged together is just a clone box and you don't have any single phone number to use for tech support. All of the repairs you have to do yourself, which you aren't factoring in, you have a box that doesn't have Thunderbolt 2 ports and doesn't legally run OS X. So just STOP IT.
It states in this recent article that there is no finalized Thunderbolt 2 PCI card slot specs from Intel and the ASUS card you spoke of hasn't been released to the market. obviously, this is based on an article dated August 2013 and I don't see any such card on ASUS' site and the ThunderboltEX PCIe is only a Thunderbolt 1, not Thunderbolt 2 card. No price either.
Supermicro is a rinky dink little company that doesn't do anything other than making more BS me too PC clones. BFD. Too many of those players that can't seem to figure out how to make a decent profit margin.
They have the same disease as all of the other PC mfg, too many products and little to no profits.
They'll all end up doing what IBM and Compaq and others have done. Sell off their pathetic business to some IDIOT company that's stupid enough to buy them.
Oh gosh that simply isn't true, yes the MacPro is a feat of engineering to able to put a Xeon CPU, dual GPU and a PCIe SSD into such a small space, a super sexy space but building one of theses XEON systems is a very simple thing to do, not too expensive anymore. Using Amazon and starting with a Barebones system from SuperMicro, this includes everything except the CPU's, GPU's, HD's and memory, the fans (except CPU fans, you have to install those after the CPU, logically), cables, motherboard, case, power-supply come assembled and installed;
I built one to compare with the 4,000 MacPro but as you can see it has a faster CPU, a dual socket motherboard so I can add an additional one later (when second CPU is added it will be faster than the MacPro 12 Core version), faster graphic cards with more memory, I can even add additional graphics cards for a total of 5(example; 2 ATI Crossfired and three Nvidia Tesla cards), a Supermicro barebones system so all you need to do is install the GPU, CPU, SSD and RAMS and then your off. I wouldn't use Windows 8 but CentOS (Linux64) which SuperMicro includes with the box and all components that I have selected have been tested with SuperMicro to work with the system.
Now it doesn't have a Thunderport port but if you really need one than Intel is starting to produce PCIe expansions cards, Asus has just introduced one and when Thunderport 2 is released I'm sure a new expansion card will be available shortly after for that as well. Not sure what you would use it for as this case has room for a 8 disk RAID and since we are using a PCIe SSD card, 4 more normal SSD drives.
Yes the thing is huge but it's meant to be used as a work machine and who cares what it looks like when it will sit under the desk, the SuperMicro is also ultra quiet, not sure what it would sound like if you added 5 GPU's though, wouldn't mind finding out though.
Ugly as sin but damn if 5 GPU's ain't sexy!
Now I'm not saying the MacPro isn't the coolest computer out there because it is but it is not the cheapest, the fastest or best overall, compromises will have to be made for using the MacPro. The biggest beeing, for me anyway, is you will be stuck with the configuration you make upon purchase for a very long time where as the monster above can grow with your needs. Just putting things in prospective here, the fact that the MacPro is an Apple is probably more than enough for most people so who cares. Yes, you can run OSX if you so desired on the machine above but I don't know about the 5 GPU's.
Just out of curiosity, why all the hubbub about Thunderport. I keep reading above, yea but it doesn't have Thunderport so your XEON configurations are a mute point, this and that, why. Okay yes, with the MacPro I fully understand, you don't have any internal expansion so you have nothing else but with a normal XEON desktop you do. I know Black Magicdesign has a really cool capture box but they also make a PCIe version and I could always buy a Thunderport card for my XEON workstation later if I will probably never need/want one. I personally use a NAS drive for my external storage needs, I do have 2 TB eSata/USB 3.0 drive for my portable needs but isn't eSata good enough for that? Monitors, HDMI and DisplayPort seem to working pretty good. I don't know, can someone explain why I would need it?
If you start adding these so-called Thunderbolt PCI cards, which don't exist, then you won't have any room for all of these GPUs you can't add. Ooops.
I think Thunderbolt 2 ports will be used just to connect a monitor to them, so that would take two ports.
I don't know why people will need 6 Thunderbolt 2 ports, but maybe we'll find out sometime after the boxes start shipping when the 3rd parties start announcing Thunderbolt 2 products. Who knows what's up people sleeves. For all we know, there might be external chassis that require 2 ports. Anything is possible, so we'll see what happens.
in the mean time, please stop your ridiculous attempts to try to figure out a clone box in place of a MacPro. There are lots of folks that won't even LOOK at a PC clone box for a variety of reasons, so please don't put out misleading BS just to try to act like you know what you are talking about.
Your first mistake was to try to compare an Apple product to some hodge podge clone box. the only people that do that are dishonest people that don't respect companies like Apple. Professionals don't like running Hackintosh systems due to the lack of support, wasting time throwing together something just to save a couple of dollars.
OS X users are just going to pick the best Apple product and Windows/Linux users will just pick what's the best of the box to run their OS and only IDIOTS use Hackintosh systems. Those people are dishonest trolls that don't respect the companies that design and make the products they use.
Whatever Relic. You seem to not like Apple hardware, so GO AWAY.
You are getting the Troll for the Day award.
Seriously, people that buy Apple products like them because they don't want to use a PC or a PC clone with Hackintosh BS because they want to get a computer that's got good support and has good resale value and only want one place to call and they don't have time to mess around trying to figure out what BS clone parts to order. Too much room for problems.
You just seem to want to put together a hobby computer that just wastes a LOT of time in trying to figure out what to buy, put together and support when it's so much easier and cheaper in the long run to just by a name brand product.
Good you like making simple things complicated. Typical IDIOT mentality.
Again, you don't THINK, you just try to make yourself look like an expert when all you are is some geek with nothing better to do by annoy people with BS solutions.
Like always you fail to grasp the concept of a conversation and take everything personally. and talk down to anyone who has an opinion that isn't your one. I never said I didn't like the MacPro, just the opposite, I like it a lot. I was responding to your misguided information that the MacPro specs couldn't be had outside of an Apple machine for the same price. SuperMicro by the way offers superb support for their machines, including their barebones, tech support and on-site services (1 year is included with purchase by the way) are available, that's why I used them as a starting point. The Asus card will be available by the time the MacPro is, it's a new product, what's your point?
Like always you fail to grasp the concept of a conversation and take everything personally. and talk down to anyone who has an opinion that isn't your one. I never said I didn't like the MacPro, just the opposite, I like it a lot. I was responding to your misguided information that the MacPro specs couldn't be had outside of an Apple machine for the same price. SuperMicro by the way offers superb support for their machines, including their barebones, tech support and on-site services (1 year is included with purchase by the way) are available, that's why I used them as a starting point. The Asus card will be available by the time the MacPro is, it's a new product, what's your point?
You fail to realize that I don't care about this non-supported product because it doesn't run OS X legally. So it isn't a conversation that is worthwhile. YOU just wasted MY time and you should just STOP while your behind.
You waste people's time Relic. PERIOD.
They can't be done at this time. AGAIN, there is NO computer that runs OS X legally and fully supported that isn't made by Apple.
Comments
http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.phpname=D3-18R16GH
mea culpa; price is closer to $500 +
Come on. Actually do a real comparison.
[/quote]
They can't. the first problem with these DIY idiots is that there is NO SUCH THING AS A XEON motherboard with Thunderbolt 2 ports on it. END OF STORY, don't even bother comparing ANYTHING, because it's NOT THE SAME processor.
SSD at 1250mbps? That costs around $1000 or more. Seriously, it's not even worth doing the investigation. NOTHING exists at this time.
Yes, that's why I figured the price differential (about $1000 or so) accounts for the unique architecture of the Mac Pro. Read the first two of my posts in this thread. I stated my assumptions therein.
Incorrect, but I'll let it pass.
error on my part; I've since revised the figure.
You missed my point, or, more likely, I failed to explain it.
Many businesses tend to standardise on equipment. It makes logistic and support tasks easier, and also gives you some extra flexibility - you can use same docking station for number of laptops (good for hotdesks) or you can easily remove HDD from otherwise dead machine, put it in same working machine and keep working... among other things.
Thus if they are already with Dell, HP or Lenovo... they are more likely to remain there.
And you can get decent workstations from either. Not as petit as new MB, but with some nice perks of their own - dual CPUs, more memory slots, more space for storage, easier to upgrade/expand graphics etc (boards in new MP look very custom).
(You can also get decent laptops on Windows side of equation these days, made of premium materials and with good battery life, if you want to spend money comparable to Apple counterparts, but I do agree that MBPs look really nice - even if they do run on higher end of temperature range, under load)
I did some reading on new MP. It is really clever design, but I cannot find info on some parts - for example, what is power supply in that box, and what power does high-end option of MP pull under full load (if anyone managed to come across such info, please share). If I'd have to preorder one of these with what I know so far, I admit I'd be a bit nervous. I'm not saying that it is impossible to achieve, but I do think that having all that powerful hardware running under full load for hours (or days) while remaining in safe thermal zone - and quiet fan - and not having to throttle down is one hell of an achievement, and not something easy to get.
You missed my point, or, more likely, I failed to explain it.
Many businesses tend to standardise on equipment. It makes logistic and support tasks easier, and also gives you some extra flexibility - you can use same docking station for number of laptops (good for hotdesks) or you can easily remove HDD from otherwise dead machine, put it in same working machine and keep working... among other things.
Thus if they are already with Dell, HP or Lenovo... they are more likely to remain there.
And you can get decent workstations from either. Not as petit as new MB, but with some nice perks of their own - dual CPUs, more memory slots, more space for storage, easier to upgrade/expand graphics etc (boards in new MP look very custom).
(You can also get decent laptops on Windows side of equation these days, made of premium materials and with good battery life, if you want to spend money comparable to Apple counterparts, but I do agree that MBPs look really nice - even if they do run on higher end of temperature range, under load)
I did some reading on new MP. It is really clever design, but I cannot find info on some parts - for example, what is power supply in that box, and what power does high-end option of MP pull under full load (if anyone managed to come across such info, please share). If I'd have to preorder one of these with what I know so far, I admit I'd be a bit nervous. I'm not saying that it is impossible to achieve, but I do think that having all that powerful hardware running under full load for hours (or days) while remaining in safe thermal zone - and quiet fan - and not having to throttle down is one hell of an achievement, and not something easy to get.
The power supply is enough power for those processors, memory, but since it has no "SLOTS" or additional internal storage, it doesn't need HUGE power supplies. so if you buy an external PCI chassis, storage system, that has it's own power supply depending on the model you buy, so that's how they can make the MacPro as small as they did with only one large fan and heat sink.
The XEON boxes that you see on the market have lots of PCI slots and room for internal drives, so they NEED LOTS of fans, water cooling, big power supplies, but Apple changed the game to make the basic box smaller, cheaper and still retain lots of expandability.
I think the PC crowd is going to have to stick with very expensive, large, noisy and water cooled systems that need to get the fluids changed (what a hassle). Oh well.
Yes, that's why I figured the price differential (about $1000 or so) accounts for the unique architecture of the Mac Pro. Read the first two of my posts in this thread. I stated my assumptions therein.
I don't need to read anyone's ASSumptions. You shouldn't have any assumptions. Apple has a box that's just designed so radically different, users have to either adapt to how Apple is doing things, or if you want a XEON box, expect to pay more money for a larger box with lots of fans, possibly water cooling and big power supplies and have to get PCI slots for expensive memory, etc and probably might have to wait for someone else to adopt Thunderbolt 2 ports in a XEON configuration.
Fast SSD is only available on PCI card slots right now and that's $1000 or more just for that.
First things first, there is NO XEON motherboard that has Thunderbolt or Thunderbolt 2 ports. Apple is it at this time.
Add motherboard, storage, power supply, case. Plus, "pro" grade graphics are usually more expensive than consumer/enthusiast parts based on same tech.
But in some scenarios this is irrelevant. If you are working in FCP or any other OSX-speciffic software, you simply need Mac.
On the other hand, if you are working in Windows environment, you will probably not be considering Macs in general.
Don't even bother trying to reason with someone that's trying to price out a comparable box. They don't exist. There is NO XEON based motherboard that has Thunderbolt 2 ports on it. All Thunderbolt 2 motherboards made by clone mfg are simply Haswell i5/i7 based chips, NOT XEON. So there is absolutely NOTHING on the market from ANY PC or Clone mfg. NOTHING. ZERO, ZIP, NADA.
Just for fun, I tried to put something close to the base spec together from a single supplier, couldn't get it exact, but I think it'd be equivalent:
£4250...
Even if you swap out cheaper parts, at best you're still going to be looking at something in the ball-park of £2500, and even then you'd have no thunderbolt 2 etc
Just for fun, I tried to put something close to the base spec together from a single supplier, couldn't get it exact, but I think it'd be equivalent:
£4250...
Even if you swap out cheaper parts, at best you're still going to be looking at something in the ball-park of £2500, and even then you'd have no thunderbolt 2 etc
Um. This isn't a XEON/Thunderbolt 2 motherboard, so it's a FAIL. Sorry. Plus, I'm not sure the box/PSU will support the configuration.
Your first mistake is using a NON-XEON/Thunderbolt 2 motherboard, which DO NOT exist. So, any comparisons that ANYONE makes is NOT even close. Sorry, but you just wasted your time and everyone else's.
Please, seriously, go to this site to see what motherboards are available and NOTICE that they are NOT XEON motherboards they are i5/i7 2nd, 3rd, or 4th gen but NOT XEON. plus the only Thunderbolt 2 based motherboards are i5/i7 not XEON.
https://thunderbolttechnology.net/products
When configuring XEON boxes with multiple GPUs, fast SSD storage, etc., they have to make sure the power supply is big enough and that it has proper cooling, otherwise the box will shut down or have frequent component failure due to improper cooling or not a big enough power supply.
If you go to HP's site, in order to configure a box with multiple GPU cards with 6G or RAM, and a 8 core processor, I think they need upgraded power supplies and water cooling and those boxes start costing more like $10K or more. Yeah, you get internal storage cages and PCI slots, but STILL no Thunderbolt (1 or 2) ports. So, at this point it's moot, nothing is comparable on the market.
Apple has to look at next year's generation processors. They might have to end up making a bigger box with a bigger fan/heatsink or a taller cylinder, so they have to design it based on what processors/GPUs they plan on using. It's not so simple as you want it to be, that's why they had to redesign the box specifically for the processor options.
In the old S-100 days, they had a back plane and you just swapped cards out, but those days are long gone.
Don't even think it's as easy as just swapping out guts out of a system. It probably will never be that easy.
I guess you're right. I bought SGI workstations in the 90s, so this new Mac Pro is way more affordable than the prices SGI usually gave me, which were always shocking, specially when you wanted textured graphics (until they released the O2, when hardware textured graphics became affordable, at about $6000, and this is my favorite machine I've ever owned).
However, quite a few years have passed, and I don't see myself paying the same price of an O2, no matter how I loved the O2.
But... as others said... this new Mac Pro has one fan only... and this is very tempting for me, because I value quietness a lot.
Even if I'd like to be able to upgrade the Xeon in the future, and even if I don't need dual GPUs (just a good NVIDIA GPU would be fine for me), however, getting a powerful machine which is also very silent, is very tempting for me...
As I said before, I don't think I will buy it with just 4 cores... I think the Mac Pro becomes interesting for at least 6 cores.
I'm surprised it comes in a square box. I'd love to have seen it packaged in a cardboard tube, that'd have been quite neat.
Very risky during handling and transport. Imagine those tubes starting rolling after a bump ...
I guess you're right. I bought SGI workstations in the 90s, so this new Mac Pro is way more affordable than the prices SGI usually gave me, which were always shocking, specially when you wanted textured graphics (until they released the O2, when hardware textured graphics became affordable, at about $6000, and this is my favorite machine I've ever owned).
However, quite a few years have passed, and I don't see myself paying the same price of an O2, no matter how I loved the O2.
But... as others said... this new Mac Pro has one fan only... and this is very tempting for me, because I value quietness a lot.
Even if I'd like to be able to upgrade the Xeon in the future, and even if I don't need dual GPUs (just a good NVIDIA GPU would be fine for me), however, getting a powerful machine which is also very silent, is very tempting for me...
As I said before, I don't think I will buy it with just 4 cores... I think the Mac Pro becomes interesting for at least 6 cores.
it all depends on what apps you are doing. For some GPU is more important than CPU, for some its the other way around and for others, they just want the maximum they can get.
I really wish Apple would make a similar design but with i7 inside with optional high end GPUs and get the base system down around $2K or so. I think that would make a compelling system for some.
By the way I'm not saying the hardware isn't worth it in this model, frankly I haven't even looked closely. What I'm saying is that Apple needs a model that can sell in volume to assure the mac Pros future. A desktop machine that starts at $3000 is just stupid.
I'm kind of leaning towards your thoughts on this. Yes the MacPro is geared towards the professional community but it's the pro-sumer where Apple will ultimately make it's money from the MacPro's. We will have to see how well they sell before we really can start criticizing Apple for their entry price but I personally don't foresee these being hot items because of it. Not to say that the MacPro isn't a bucket full of coolness, it's defiantly on top of my wish list of ultimate computers to have not so much for it's speed, as faster computers can be had for less but the design, man that beautiful design and overall cool factor.
So, at this point it's moot, nothing is comparable on the market.
Oh gosh that simply isn't true, yes the MacPro is a feat of engineering to able to put a Xeon CPU, dual GPU and a PCIe SSD into such a small space, a super sexy space but building one of theses XEON systems is a very simple thing to do, not too expensive anymore. Using Amazon and starting with a Barebones system from SuperMicro, this includes everything except the CPU's, GPU's, HD's and memory, the fans (except CPU fans, you have to install those after the CPU, logically), cables, motherboard, case, power-supply come assembled and installed;
2X AMD FirePro W7000 4GB GDDR5 4DisplayPort PCI-Express Workstation Graphics
1X Supermicro SuperWorkstation SYS-7047A-T Dual LGA2011 Xeon 1200W Tower Server Barebone System (dual CPU socket so you can add an extra later)
Intel Xeon Eight-Core E5-2650 2.0GHz 8.0GT/s 20MB LGA2011 Processor without Fan, Retail BX80621E52650 (8 core CPU and is faster than the one found in the 4,000 MacPro)
1X VisionTek Data Fusion 2-way PCIe SSD 480GB Small form factor - 100K IOPS Solid State Drive (900601)
1X Kingston Technology 32GB Kit (4x8GB Modules) 1600MHz DDR3 PC3-12800 ECC Reg CL11 DIMM DR x4 Server and Motherboard Memory KVR16R11D4K4/32
Total Price: 4,035
I built one to compare with the 4,000 MacPro but as you can see it has a faster CPU, a dual socket motherboard so I can add an additional one later (when second CPU is added it will be faster than the MacPro 12 Core version), faster graphic cards with more memory, I can even add additional graphics cards for a total of 5(example; 2 ATI Crossfired and three Nvidia Tesla cards), a Supermicro barebones system so all you need to do is install the GPU, CPU, SSD and RAMS and then your off. I wouldn't use Windows 8 but CentOS (Linux64) which SuperMicro includes with the box and all components that I have selected have been tested with SuperMicro to work with the system.
Now it doesn't have a Thunderport port but if you really need one than Intel is starting to produce PCIe expansions cards, Asus has just introduced one and when Thunderport 2 is released I'm sure a new expansion card will be available shortly after for that as well. Not sure what you would use it for as this case has room for a 8 disk RAID and since we are using a PCIe SSD card, 4 more normal SSD drives.
Yes the thing is huge but it's meant to be used as a work machine and who cares what it looks like when it will sit under the desk, the SuperMicro is also ultra quiet, not sure what it would sound like if you added 5 GPU's though, wouldn't mind finding out though.
Ugly as sin but damn if 5 GPU's ain't sexy!
Now I'm not saying the MacPro isn't the coolest computer out there because it is but it is not the cheapest, the fastest or best overall, compromises will have to be made for using the MacPro. The biggest beeing, for me anyway, is you will be stuck with the configuration you make upon purchase for a very long time where as the monster above can grow with your needs. Just putting things in prospective here, the fact that the MacPro is an Apple is probably more than enough for most people so who cares. Yes, you can run OSX if you so desired on the machine above but I don't know about the 5 GPU's.
Just out of curiosity, why all the hubbub about Thunderport. I keep reading above, yea but it doesn't have Thunderport so your XEON configurations are a mute point, this and that, why. Okay yes, with the MacPro I fully understand, you don't have any internal expansion so you have nothing else but with a normal XEON desktop you do. I know Black Magicdesign has a really cool capture box but they also make a PCIe version and I could always buy a Thunderport card for my XEON workstation later if I will probably never need/want one. I personally use a NAS drive for my external storage needs, I do have 2 TB eSata/USB 3.0 drive for my portable needs but isn't eSata good enough for that? Monitors, HDMI and DisplayPort seem to working pretty good. I don't know, can someone explain why I would need it?
Oh gosh that simply isn't true, yes the MacPro is a feat of engineering to able to put a Xeon CPU, dual GPU and a PCIe SSD into such a small space, a super sexy space but building one of theses XEON systems is a very simple thing to do and not magic. Using Amazon;
2X AMD FirePro W7000 4GB GDDR5 4DisplayPort PCI-Express Workstation Graphics
1X Supermicro SuperWorkstation SYS-7047A-T Dual LGA2011 Xeon 1200W Tower Server Barebone System (dual CPU socket so you can add an extra later)
Intel Xeon Eight-Core E5-2650 2.0GHz 8.0GT/s 20MB LGA2011 Processor without Fan, Retail BX80621E52650 (8 core CPU and is faster than the one found in the 4,000 MacPro)
1X VisionTek Data Fusion 2-way PCIe SSD 480GB Small form factor - 100K IOPS Solid State Drive (900601)
1X Kingston Technology 32GB Kit (4x8GB Modules) 1600MHz DDR3 PC3-12800 ECC Reg CL11 DIMM DR x4 Server and Motherboard Memory KVR16R11D4K4/32
Total Price: 4,035
I built one to compare with the 4,000 MacPro but as you can see it has a faster CPU, a dual socket motherboard so I can add an additional one later (when second CPU is added it will be faster than the MacPro 12 Core version), faster graphic cards with more memory, I can even add additional graphics cards for a total of 5(example; 2 ATI Crossfired and three Nvidia Tesla cards), a Supermicro barebones system so all you need to do is install the GPU, CPU, SSD and RAMS and then your off. I wouldn't use Windows 8 but CentOS (Linux64) which SuperMicro includes with the box and all components that I have selected have been tested with SuperMicro to work with the system.
Now it doesn't have a Thunderport port but if you really need one than Intel is starting to produce PCIe expansions cards, Asus has just introduced one and when Thunderport 2 is released I'm sure a new expansion card will be available shortly after for that as well. Not sure what you would use it for as this case has room for a 8 disk RAID and since we are using a PCIe SSD card, 4 more normal SSD drives.
Yes the thing is huge but it's meant to be used as a work machine and who cares what it looks like when it will sit under the desk, the SuperMicro is also ultra quiet, not sure what it would sound like if you added 5 GPU's though, wouldn't mind finding out though.
No one said anything about using Magic.
Sorry, but this POS system you hodge podged together is just a clone box and you don't have any single phone number to use for tech support. All of the repairs you have to do yourself, which you aren't factoring in, you have a box that doesn't have Thunderbolt 2 ports and doesn't legally run OS X. So just STOP IT.
It states in this recent article that there is no finalized Thunderbolt 2 PCI card slot specs from Intel and the ASUS card you spoke of hasn't been released to the market. obviously, this is based on an article dated August 2013 and I don't see any such card on ASUS' site and the ThunderboltEX PCIe is only a Thunderbolt 1, not Thunderbolt 2 card. No price either.
http://vr-zone.com/articles/thunderbolts-great-pcie-hope/50677.html
Oh gosh that simply isn't true, yes the MacPro is a feat of engineering to able to put a Xeon CPU, dual GPU and a PCIe SSD into such a small space, a super sexy space but building one of theses XEON systems is a very simple thing to do, not too expensive anymore. Using Amazon and starting with a Barebones system from SuperMicro, this includes everything except the CPU's, GPU's, HD's and memory, the fans (except CPU fans, you have to install those after the CPU, logically), cables, motherboard, case, power-supply come assembled and installed;
2X AMD FirePro W7000 4GB GDDR5 4DisplayPort PCI-Express Workstation Graphics
1X Supermicro SuperWorkstation SYS-7047A-T Dual LGA2011 Xeon 1200W Tower Server Barebone System (dual CPU socket so you can add an extra later)
Intel Xeon Eight-Core E5-2650 2.0GHz 8.0GT/s 20MB LGA2011 Processor without Fan, Retail BX80621E52650 (8 core CPU and is faster than the one found in the 4,000 MacPro)
1X VisionTek Data Fusion 2-way PCIe SSD 480GB Small form factor - 100K IOPS Solid State Drive (900601)
1X Kingston Technology 32GB Kit (4x8GB Modules) 1600MHz DDR3 PC3-12800 ECC Reg CL11 DIMM DR x4 Server and Motherboard Memory KVR16R11D4K4/32
Total Price: 4,035
I built one to compare with the 4,000 MacPro but as you can see it has a faster CPU, a dual socket motherboard so I can add an additional one later (when second CPU is added it will be faster than the MacPro 12 Core version), faster graphic cards with more memory, I can even add additional graphics cards for a total of 5(example; 2 ATI Crossfired and three Nvidia Tesla cards), a Supermicro barebones system so all you need to do is install the GPU, CPU, SSD and RAMS and then your off. I wouldn't use Windows 8 but CentOS (Linux64) which SuperMicro includes with the box and all components that I have selected have been tested with SuperMicro to work with the system.
Now it doesn't have a Thunderport port but if you really need one than Intel is starting to produce PCIe expansions cards, Asus has just introduced one and when Thunderport 2 is released I'm sure a new expansion card will be available shortly after for that as well. Not sure what you would use it for as this case has room for a 8 disk RAID and since we are using a PCIe SSD card, 4 more normal SSD drives.
Yes the thing is huge but it's meant to be used as a work machine and who cares what it looks like when it will sit under the desk, the SuperMicro is also ultra quiet, not sure what it would sound like if you added 5 GPU's though, wouldn't mind finding out though.
Ugly as sin but damn if 5 GPU's ain't sexy!
Now I'm not saying the MacPro isn't the coolest computer out there because it is but it is not the cheapest, the fastest or best overall, compromises will have to be made for using the MacPro. The biggest beeing, for me anyway, is you will be stuck with the configuration you make upon purchase for a very long time where as the monster above can grow with your needs. Just putting things in prospective here, the fact that the MacPro is an Apple is probably more than enough for most people so who cares. Yes, you can run OSX if you so desired on the machine above but I don't know about the 5 GPU's.
Just out of curiosity, why all the hubbub about Thunderport. I keep reading above, yea but it doesn't have Thunderport so your XEON configurations are a mute point, this and that, why. Okay yes, with the MacPro I fully understand, you don't have any internal expansion so you have nothing else but with a normal XEON desktop you do. I know Black Magicdesign has a really cool capture box but they also make a PCIe version and I could always buy a Thunderport card for my XEON workstation later if I really need one but I'll never need 8 ports. I personally use a NAS drive for my external storage needs, I do have 2 TB eSata/USB 3.0 drive for my portable needs but isn't eSata good enough for that? Monitors, HDMI and DisplayPort seem to working pretty good. I don't know, can someone explain why I would need it?
Whatever Relic. You seem to not like Apple hardware, so GO AWAY.
Seriously, people that buy Apple products like them because they don't want to use a PC or a PC clone with Hackintosh BS because they want to get a computer that's got good support and has good resale value and only want one place to call and they don't have time to mess around trying to figure out what BS clone parts to order. Too much room for problems.
You just seem to want to put together a hobby computer that just wastes a LOT of time in trying to figure out what to buy, put together and support when it's so much easier and cheaper in the long run to just by a name brand product.
Good you like making simple things complicated.
No one said anything about using Magic.
Sorry, but this POS system you hodge podged together is just a clone box and you don't have any single phone number to use for tech support. All of the repairs you have to do yourself, which you aren't factoring in, you have a box that doesn't have Thunderbolt 2 ports and doesn't legally run OS X. So just STOP IT.
It states in this recent article that there is no finalized Thunderbolt 2 PCI card slot specs from Intel and the ASUS card you spoke of hasn't been released to the market. obviously, this is based on an article dated August 2013 and I don't see any such card on ASUS' site and the ThunderboltEX PCIe is only a Thunderbolt 1, not Thunderbolt 2 card. No price either.
http://vr-zone.com/articles/thunderbolts-great-pcie-hope/50677.html
Supermicro is a rinky dink little company that doesn't do anything other than making more BS me too PC clones. BFD. Too many of those players that can't seem to figure out how to make a decent profit margin.
They have the same disease as all of the other PC mfg, too many products and little to no profits.
They'll all end up doing what IBM and Compaq and others have done. Sell off their pathetic business to some IDIOT company that's stupid enough to buy them.
Oh gosh that simply isn't true, yes the MacPro is a feat of engineering to able to put a Xeon CPU, dual GPU and a PCIe SSD into such a small space, a super sexy space but building one of theses XEON systems is a very simple thing to do, not too expensive anymore. Using Amazon and starting with a Barebones system from SuperMicro, this includes everything except the CPU's, GPU's, HD's and memory, the fans (except CPU fans, you have to install those after the CPU, logically), cables, motherboard, case, power-supply come assembled and installed;
2X AMD FirePro W7000 4GB GDDR5 4DisplayPort PCI-Express Workstation Graphics
1X Supermicro SuperWorkstation SYS-7047A-T Dual LGA2011 Xeon 1200W Tower Server Barebone System (dual CPU socket so you can add an extra later)
Intel Xeon Eight-Core E5-2650 2.0GHz 8.0GT/s 20MB LGA2011 Processor without Fan, Retail BX80621E52650 (8 core CPU and is faster than the one found in the 4,000 MacPro)
1X VisionTek Data Fusion 2-way PCIe SSD 480GB Small form factor - 100K IOPS Solid State Drive (900601)
1X Kingston Technology 32GB Kit (4x8GB Modules) 1600MHz DDR3 PC3-12800 ECC Reg CL11 DIMM DR x4 Server and Motherboard Memory KVR16R11D4K4/32
Total Price: 4,035
I built one to compare with the 4,000 MacPro but as you can see it has a faster CPU, a dual socket motherboard so I can add an additional one later (when second CPU is added it will be faster than the MacPro 12 Core version), faster graphic cards with more memory, I can even add additional graphics cards for a total of 5(example; 2 ATI Crossfired and three Nvidia Tesla cards), a Supermicro barebones system so all you need to do is install the GPU, CPU, SSD and RAMS and then your off. I wouldn't use Windows 8 but CentOS (Linux64) which SuperMicro includes with the box and all components that I have selected have been tested with SuperMicro to work with the system.
Now it doesn't have a Thunderport port but if you really need one than Intel is starting to produce PCIe expansions cards, Asus has just introduced one and when Thunderport 2 is released I'm sure a new expansion card will be available shortly after for that as well. Not sure what you would use it for as this case has room for a 8 disk RAID and since we are using a PCIe SSD card, 4 more normal SSD drives.
Yes the thing is huge but it's meant to be used as a work machine and who cares what it looks like when it will sit under the desk, the SuperMicro is also ultra quiet, not sure what it would sound like if you added 5 GPU's though, wouldn't mind finding out though.
Ugly as sin but damn if 5 GPU's ain't sexy!
Now I'm not saying the MacPro isn't the coolest computer out there because it is but it is not the cheapest, the fastest or best overall, compromises will have to be made for using the MacPro. The biggest beeing, for me anyway, is you will be stuck with the configuration you make upon purchase for a very long time where as the monster above can grow with your needs. Just putting things in prospective here, the fact that the MacPro is an Apple is probably more than enough for most people so who cares. Yes, you can run OSX if you so desired on the machine above but I don't know about the 5 GPU's.
Just out of curiosity, why all the hubbub about Thunderport. I keep reading above, yea but it doesn't have Thunderport so your XEON configurations are a mute point, this and that, why. Okay yes, with the MacPro I fully understand, you don't have any internal expansion so you have nothing else but with a normal XEON desktop you do. I know Black Magicdesign has a really cool capture box but they also make a PCIe version and I could always buy a Thunderport card for my XEON workstation later if I will probably never need/want one. I personally use a NAS drive for my external storage needs, I do have 2 TB eSata/USB 3.0 drive for my portable needs but isn't eSata good enough for that? Monitors, HDMI and DisplayPort seem to working pretty good. I don't know, can someone explain why I would need it?
If you start adding these so-called Thunderbolt PCI cards, which don't exist, then you won't have any room for all of these GPUs you can't add. Ooops.
I think Thunderbolt 2 ports will be used just to connect a monitor to them, so that would take two ports.
I don't know why people will need 6 Thunderbolt 2 ports, but maybe we'll find out sometime after the boxes start shipping when the 3rd parties start announcing Thunderbolt 2 products. Who knows what's up people sleeves. For all we know, there might be external chassis that require 2 ports. Anything is possible, so we'll see what happens.
in the mean time, please stop your ridiculous attempts to try to figure out a clone box in place of a MacPro. There are lots of folks that won't even LOOK at a PC clone box for a variety of reasons, so please don't put out misleading BS just to try to act like you know what you are talking about.
Your first mistake was to try to compare an Apple product to some hodge podge clone box. the only people that do that are dishonest people that don't respect companies like Apple. Professionals don't like running Hackintosh systems due to the lack of support, wasting time throwing together something just to save a couple of dollars.
OS X users are just going to pick the best Apple product and Windows/Linux users will just pick what's the best of the box to run their OS and only IDIOTS use Hackintosh systems. Those people are dishonest trolls that don't respect the companies that design and make the products they use.
Whatever Relic. You seem to not like Apple hardware, so GO AWAY.
You are getting the Troll for the Day award.
Seriously, people that buy Apple products like them because they don't want to use a PC or a PC clone with Hackintosh BS because they want to get a computer that's got good support and has good resale value and only want one place to call and they don't have time to mess around trying to figure out what BS clone parts to order. Too much room for problems.
You just seem to want to put together a hobby computer that just wastes a LOT of time in trying to figure out what to buy, put together and support when it's so much easier and cheaper in the long run to just by a name brand product.
Good you like making simple things complicated. Typical IDIOT mentality.
Again, you don't THINK, you just try to make yourself look like an expert when all you are is some geek with nothing better to do by annoy people with BS solutions.
Like always you fail to grasp the concept of a conversation and take everything personally. and talk down to anyone who has an opinion that isn't your one. I never said I didn't like the MacPro, just the opposite, I like it a lot. I was responding to your misguided information that the MacPro specs couldn't be had outside of an Apple machine for the same price. SuperMicro by the way offers superb support for their machines, including their barebones, tech support and on-site services (1 year is included with purchase by the way) are available, that's why I used them as a starting point. The Asus card will be available by the time the MacPro is, it's a new product, what's your point?
Like always you fail to grasp the concept of a conversation and take everything personally. and talk down to anyone who has an opinion that isn't your one. I never said I didn't like the MacPro, just the opposite, I like it a lot. I was responding to your misguided information that the MacPro specs couldn't be had outside of an Apple machine for the same price. SuperMicro by the way offers superb support for their machines, including their barebones, tech support and on-site services (1 year is included with purchase by the way) are available, that's why I used them as a starting point. The Asus card will be available by the time the MacPro is, it's a new product, what's your point?
You fail to realize that I don't care about this non-supported product because it doesn't run OS X legally. So it isn't a conversation that is worthwhile. YOU just wasted MY time and you should just STOP while your behind.
You waste people's time Relic. PERIOD.
They can't be done at this time. AGAIN, there is NO computer that runs OS X legally and fully supported that isn't made by Apple.
SuperMicro doesn't support OS X.