Apple's cylindrical Mac Pro will debut in Dec. starting at $2,999

1679111215

Comments

  • Reply 161 of 285
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by drblank View Post

     

    I don't care what they own, if they are using OS X on a non-Apple product, then that is a violation of the license agreement and they need to wake up and become more in line with the licensing contracts and quit playing childish hobbyist BS.  To people such as myself, these people come off as mentally underdeveloped in the area of business sense.


     

     

    Apple was founded by Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak, who made blue boxes to allow him to call long distance for free.  

     

    Were they "mentally underdeveloped in the area of business sense?"

     

    steve wozniak blue box

     

    I'm not saying it's a good thing...  but are you being completely fair in your judgement?

  • Reply 162 of 285
    hmmhmm Posts: 3,405member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by drblank View Post

     

    I don't care what they own, if they are using OS X on a non-Apple product, then that is a violation of the license agreement and they need to wake up and become more in line with the licensing contracts and quit playing childish hobbyist BS.  To people such as myself, these people come off as mentally underdeveloped in the area of business sense.




    You mention business sense. I would never recommend that anyone rely on hackintoshes for their business. I don't suggest them in general, but you view this as egregious when it will never have a negative impact on you or Apple. It's somewhat tangential, but Apple has gained a few ideas from the Cydia developers. There are other things I find amusing. Sometimes I'll read that someone acquired an old PowerPC mac and inquires about disks. People suggest the only legal route is paying scalpers on ebay (rather than downloading), yet if you look at the back of that packaging, the licenses are not for resale or transferable. I've questioned how one is better than the other. I can never get a straight answer. In that situation I tell people to contact Apple, as they may have some method of recourse that doesn't involve paying some random jackass $200 for a copy of leopard.

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by drblank View Post

     

    My blood pressure is fine.  There is NOTHING that has the same specs at the same price as the new MacPros.

     

    Sorry, but Hackintosh is NOT SUPPORTED OR LEGAL and PROFESSIONALS don't use Hackintosh.  




    This is technically true, if OSX is an absolute necessity. It is in some cases. I will point out that the $3000 configuration has a lot in common with the old $2500 configuration. These are basically low end firepros at this point. Firepros don't start at thousands. You're looking at two cards that probably cost no more per card than the old 5770. Apple charged $250 aftermarket for those if I recall correctly. You gain thunderbolt ports, but you lose PCI slots. In some cases you may have to invest additional dollars in storage. It may sell, but it's certainly not priced aggressively. As you point out, professionals don't use Hackintosh. A few might claim they would, but no one is going to base their business on hacked solution.

  • Reply 163 of 285
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,383member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

     

     

     

    Apple was founded by Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak, who made blue boxes to allow him to call long distance for free.  

     

    Were they "mentally underdeveloped in the area of business sense?"

     

    steve wozniak blue box

     

    I'm not saying it's a good thing...  but are you being completely fair in your judgement?


    And eventually, they grew up.  That's what KIDS DO.  Just because someone else does something stupid does that give you permission to do something equally stupid or even MORE stupid?   They were also both using drugs at that age as well.  Hmmmm....  Could there be a connection?

  • Reply 164 of 285
    auxioauxio Posts: 1,987member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by drblank View Post

     

    And eventually, they grew up.  That's what KIDS DO.  Just because someone else does something stupid does that give you permission to do something equally stupid or even MORE stupid?   They were also both using drugs at that age as well.  Hmmmm....  Could there be a connection?


     

    I'll agree with you on the point of growing up and creating a legitimate business rather than just spinning off into further illegal activity.  However, I would argue that the mentality that the world can be tinkered with, reshaped, and that there's no structure which is "set in stone" (often brought about by the use of LSD, but not necessarily so) is part of what made Apple what it is today: a company which doesn't accept the status quo and often changes the landscape of technology via that way of thinking.

     

    IMO, we need the hobbyist tinkerers who want to push boundaries and see what's possible.   Because these are some of the people who will help shape tomorrow if they get on the right path.  However, what we don't need are the scumbag profiteers who try to make a buck off the work done by the tinkerers at the expense of legitimate businesses like Apple (or who try to convince the tinkerers that it's a smart path to take).

  • Reply 165 of 285
    auxio wrote: »
    drblank wrote: »
     
    And eventually, they grew up.  That's what KIDS DO.  Just because someone else does something stupid does that give you permission to do something equally stupid or even MORE stupid?   They were also both using drugs at that age as well.  Hmmmm....  Could there be a connection?

    I'll agree with you on the point of growing up and creating a legitimate business rather than just spinning off into further illegal activity.  However, I would argue that the mentality that the world can be tinkered with, reshaped, and that there's no structure which is "set in stone" (often brought about by the use of LSD, but not necessarily so) is part of what made Apple what it is today: a company which doesn't accept the status quo and often changes the landscape of technology via that way of thinking.

    IMO, we need the hobbyist tinkerers who want to push boundaries and see what's possible.   Because these are some of the people who will help shape tomorrow if they get on the right path.  However, what we don't need are the scumbag profiteers who try to make a buck off the work done by the tinkerers at the expense of legitimate businesses like Apple (or who try to convince the tinkerers that it's a smart path to take).

    Err... There was someone else involved -- who changed Apple from a low-volume (about 200 total) manufacturer of "hobbyist" computers to what became the first personal computer. That person was Mike Markkula. Mike provided the investment capital, experience, the business sense and the reputation to attract "business" executives and professionals to Apple. Mike provided the structure and environment that allowed the two Steves and Apple to forever change the world.

    With 2 others, I opened the 5th computer store in Silicon Valley in 1978. We identified 3 market segments to target:  Home/Personal; Business (potentially);  and Hobbyist.  We supported the hobbyists * as they were an attraction to other potential customers.  The hobbyists seldom bought anything (from us)!

    * provided them a place to gather (user group) and "strut their stuff", loaned them hardware and software, paid them for custom development work (software and hardware), etc.

    There were lots of hobbyist computers around then... all of them are gone now! The two major competitors to Apple were the Radio Shack TRS--80 (Trash)-80) and North Star (Kentucky Fried Computer) -- neither survived the 1980s.
  • Reply 166 of 285
    auxioauxio Posts: 1,987member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post





    Err... There was someone else involved -- who changed Apple from a low-volume (about 200 total) manufacturer of "hobbyist" computers to what became the first personal computer. That person was Mike Markkula. Mike provided the investment capital, experience, the business sense and the reputation to attract "business" executives and professionals to Apple. Mike provided the structure and environment that allowed the two Steves and Apple to forever change the world.

     

    I don't recall ever stating that all investors are scumbag profiteers.  I know very well that Markkula helped set the Steves on the right path.  It takes the right people on both sides to make a successful business.

     

    However, one only needs to look at the case of Psystar to see an example which proves my point: scumbag investors trying to profit from the tinkerings of the Hackintosh community at the expense of Apple.

  • Reply 167 of 285
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,383member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by auxio View Post

     

     

    I'll agree with you on the point of growing up and creating a legitimate business rather than just spinning off into further illegal activity.  However, I would argue that the mentality that the world can be tinkered with, reshaped, and that there's no structure which is "set in stone" (often brought about by the use of LSD, but not necessarily so) is part of what made Apple what it is today: a company which doesn't accept the status quo and often changes the landscape of technology via that way of thinking.

     

    IMO, we need the hobbyist tinkerers who want to push boundaries and see what's possible.   Because these are some of the people who will help shape tomorrow if they get on the right path.  However, what we don't need are the scumbag profiteers who try to make a buck off the work done by the tinkerers at the expense of legitimate businesses like Apple (or who try to convince the tinkerers that it's a smart path to take).


    Hobbyists aren't always pushing the boundaries, maybe pushing the boundaries of what's legal maybe, but seriously, Apple is a company, just like Microsoft, etc. etc.  There are laws, laws are there to protect individuals and corporations alike.  Laws also change, just as policies.

     

    Drugs don't always allow us to THINK properly when it comes to certain things.  Yeah, some may argue that smoking pot, dropping acid, etc. may allow creative thoughts, but so does meditation.  But smoking pot, dropping acid, getting drunk affect the part of the brain that deals with the aspect of thoughts that is called JUDGEMENT.  If you JUDGEMENT is affected, then it affects your behavior and then you don't think too clearly and then you end up doing something STUPID and possibly illegal.

     

    Just because Jobs dropped acid years ago doesn't mean that anyone that wants to be creative should go out and drop acid to create something.  That's fallacious reasoning because there are people that have dropped acid where they didn't come up with something creative, they ended up doing something illegal, dangerous or even life threatening.  Plenty of people that dropped acid in the 60's, 70's and even today can wind up in mental hospital or have a bad trip.

     

    Bottom line, there are ways to increase your creative side of your brain and it usually means meditating, learning to do things that are creative like learn to play a musical instrument, learn to paint, sculpt, etc. etc.  There are books that you can read on  how to increase your creative side of your brain without the use of drugs, alcohol.   FYI, not all of the greatest ideas were Job's or Wozniak's or thought of while under the influence either.  

  • Reply 168 of 285
    auxioauxio Posts: 1,987member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by drblank View Post

     

    Just because Jobs dropped acid years ago doesn't mean that anyone that wants to be creative should go out and drop acid to create something.  That's fallacious reasoning because there are people that have dropped acid where they didn't come up with something creative, they ended up doing something illegal, dangerous or even life threatening.  Plenty of people that dropped acid in the 60's, 70's and even today can wind up in mental hospital or have a bad trip.


     

    I agree, which is why I added the "not necessarily so" (both in doing it and having your perspective changed, or in not doing it and never being able to get the same effect).

     

     Bottom line, there are ways to increase your creative side of your brain and it usually means meditating, learning to do things that are creative like learn to play a musical instrument, learn to paint, sculpt, etc. etc.  There are books that you can read on  how to increase your creative side of your brain without the use of drugs, alcohol.   FYI, not all of the greatest ideas were Job's or Wozniak's or thought of while under the influence either.  


     

    There are many ways to bring your mind into a state where it's open to seeing things from a different perspective.  I'd add spending time a country where the culture and language are far different from your own to that list (doesn't have to be India -- I personally experienced it when I was in Italy).  Though many people's reaction to being uncomfortable is to simply tune out and desperately cling to what they know.  So again, there's no guarantees of anything.

     

    And I highly doubt that any of the Steves' great accomplishments came while directly under the influence.  It's usually more the case where the thoughts you had while being in a more receptive state (however that was achieved) will have an impact on the things you do afterwards while not.  And yes, people can definitely spin off into bad directions (even those who don't do drugs).  I'm certainly no Timothy Leary when it comes to this topic.

     

    Anyways, I can see you like dealing in absolutes a lot -- perhaps based on personal experience, which I certainly can't argue with.  My main argument here is that, black and white statements about what technically creative types should and shouldn't be doing in the process of exploring technology and learning how to shape it (as long as it's not directly affecting others like hacking computer systems they don't own, selling illegal products, or similar), aren't beneficial.

  • Reply 169 of 285
    auxioauxio Posts: 1,987member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post



    There were lots of hobbyist computers around then... all of them are gone now! The two major competitors to Apple were the Radio Shack TRS--80 (Trash)-80) and North Star (Kentucky Fried Computer) -- neither survived the 1980s.

     

    And sorry, I didn't mean to be so curt about your post -- just a little busy atm.  I do enjoy the great stories from that era which you bring to the forum.  I remember well the Trash-80, though I owned Commodore machines around that time period (Vic 20 and later the C64).  However, I've never heard of the North Star… I'll have to look that one up (EDIT: looks like they had great camaraderie there).

  • Reply 170 of 285
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,383member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by auxio View Post

     

     

    I agree, which is why I added the "not necessarily so" (both in doing it and having your perspective changed, or in not doing it and never being able to get the same effect).

     

    There are many ways to bring your mind into a state where it's open to seeing things from a different perspective.  I'd add spending time a country where the culture and language are far different from your own to that list (doesn't have to be India -- I personally experienced it when I was in Italy).  Though many people's reaction to being uncomfortable is to simply tune out and desperately cling to what they know.  So again, there's no guarantees of anything.

     

    And I highly doubt that any of the Steves' great accomplishments came while directly under the influence.  It's usually more the case where the thoughts you had while being in a more receptive state (however that was achieved) will have an impact on the things you do afterwards while not.  And yes, people can definitely spin off into bad directions (even those who don't do drugs).  I'm certainly no Timothy Leary when it comes to this topic.

     

    Anyways, I can see you like dealing in absolutes a lot -- perhaps based on personal experience, which I certainly can't argue with.  My main argument here is that, black and white statements about what technically creative types should and shouldn't be doing in the process of exploring technology and learning how to shape it (as long as it's not directly affecting others like hacking computer systems they don't own, selling illegal products, or similar), aren't beneficial.


     

    sorry, but Hackintosh systems are breaking any new ground.  They are just hacked BS and we have enough problems with hacker mentality that everyone has to deal with and the less of it the better.   If every Hackintosh user just bought a Mac instead of pirating the OS, Apple's desktop sales would be higher.  I don't know by how much, but if someone was a shareholder, I would be pissed off at these people for hacking OS X.  Bottom line, pay for what you use and play by the rules.  You actually might benefit in other ways like be taken seriously.

     

    I for one, wouldn't hire someone that is a Hackintosh user and if I found out they were doing it, I would fire them immediately as I would NOT want to promote that behavior amongst people that work for my company.  Illegal use of software in the workplace for MOST legitimate companies is frowned upon and could be grounds for termination.  Many companies have ZERO tolerance for hackers using illegal code within the workplace.  Don't get into that habit at home, it's not a good habit.  And ESPECIALLY don't promote it on forums and blogs because there are a lot of children reading this stuff and they get easily manipulated by this behavior.

  • Reply 171 of 285
    auxioauxio Posts: 1,987member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by drblank View Post

     

    I for one, wouldn't hire someone that is a Hackintosh user and if I found out they were doing it, I would fire them immediately as I would NOT want to promote that behavior amongst people that work for my company.  Illegal use of software in the workplace for MOST legitimate companies is frowned upon and could be grounds for termination.  Many companies have ZERO tolerance for hackers using illegal code within the workplace.  Don't get into that habit at home, it's not a good habit.  And ESPECIALLY don't promote it on forums and blogs because there are a lot of children reading this stuff and they get easily manipulated by this behavior.


     

    No, I wouldn't hire a Hackintosh user either.  But I might hire a Hackintosh creator (i.e. someone who worked on the OSx86 project) as long as they aren't involved in the sale/distribution of such systems (i.e. the truly illegal activities).  Someone who has spent countless hours learning things like how the EFI on Macs differs from that of PCs, how the hardware ID on a Mac works, etc.  Because I find that someone who has that level of curiosity about the inner workings of technology, and a creative mind for problem solving, can be quite valuable if applied to a legitimate project requiring difficult problem solving skills and attention to detail (assuming they can work well on a team).

     

    Would I prefer it if someone had developed such skills and found their creativity in post-secondary education?  Sure.  But not everyone gets that opportunity (nor takes it).  See the person and their potential, not just the resume.

     

    And no, I wouldn't hire you for my HR department. :p

  • Reply 172 of 285
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,383member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by auxio View Post

     

     

    No, I wouldn't hire a Hackintosh user either.  But I might hire a Hackintosh creator (i.e. someone who worked on the OSx86 project) as long as they aren't involved in the sale/distribution of such systems (i.e. the truly illegal activities).  Someone who has spent countless hours learning things like how the EFI on Macs differs from that of PCs, how the hardware ID on a Mac works, etc.  Because I find that someone who has that level of curiosity about the inner workings of technology, and a creative mind for problem solving, can be quite valuable if applied to a legitimate project requiring difficult problem solving skills and attention to detail (assuming they can work well on a team).

     

    Would I prefer it if someone had developed such skills and found their creativity in post-secondary education?  Sure.  But not everyone gets that opportunity (nor takes it).  See the person and their potential, not just the resume.

     

    And no, I wouldn't hire you for my HR department. :p


    A Hackintosh Creator?  What's a Hackintosh Creator?   THis is what Wiki says about your OSX86 project.   The Apple software license does not allow Mac OS X to be used on a computer that is not "Apple-branded"

     

    Why would you need to hire these guys?  All they are doing is figuring out how to make Apple's OS X work on non-Apple branded hardware, which is against the Apple software licensing. 

     

    What legitimate use would these people provide for a LEGITIMATE 3rd party company?  They are hackers.  They are doing something that promotes illegal behavior.

     

    Bottom line, YOU are promoting violations of a software license agreement.

     

    I wouldn't work for you even if you paid me to.  I'm not THAT desperate to work for criminals and unethical people.    There are plenty of people that know about the inner workings of Apple hardware that are useful for third party hardware solutions to work with Apple hardware.  That's where the legitimate people use these systems. So it sounds like you just want to cater to hackers.  That's being dumb.

  • Reply 173 of 285
    auxioauxio Posts: 1,987member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by drblank View Post

     

    I wouldn't work for you even if you paid me to.  I'm not THAT desperate to work for criminals and unethical people.    There are plenty of people that know about the inner workings of Apple hardware that are useful for third party hardware solutions to work with Apple hardware.  That's where the legitimate people use these systems. So it sounds like you just want to cater to hackers.  That's being dumb.


     

    Then I guess Apple must be criminal, unethical, and dumb too for hiring people who hack their products:

     

    http://www.quickpwn.com/2011/08/apple-hires-jailbreak-developer-comex.html

    http://www.electronista.com/articles/11/09/16/apple.courts.iphone.dev.team.member/

     

    You clearly have very little knowledge of the history of technology and how the tech industry works, and simply want judge the world based on your limited black and white view of it.  So there's little more for me to say here.

  • Reply 174 of 285

    I hope the Hackintosh community keeps existing if only to build us OS X support for future PCIe graphics cards.

     

    Because heaven knows Apple couldn’t care less about new GPUs for old Mac Pros.

  • Reply 175 of 285
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,383member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by auxio View Post

     

     

    Then I guess Apple must be criminal, unethical, and dumb too for hiring people who hack their products:

     

    http://www.quickpwn.com/2011/08/apple-hires-jailbreak-developer-comex.html

    http://www.electronista.com/articles/11/09/16/apple.courts.iphone.dev.team.member/

     

    You clearly have very little knowledge of the history of technology and how the tech industry works, and simply want judge the world based on your limited black and white view of it.  So there's little more for me to say here.


    They do it so they can fix problems.  They need people do hack their own OS and apps so they can figure out way to prevent it.  It's done in a controlled environment where they are doing it to improve their own products.  TOTALLY different.

     

    But Apple is the original developer of the OS and hardware and apps, they need to hire people to help them do it, but to go around promoting the use of OS X on a non-Apple branded hardware is TOTALLY different.  Did you wake up this way or are you consuming drugs and/or alcohol to destroy the portion of your brain that actually uses good judgement?  Seriously.

     

    They don't want EXTERNAL hackers, but they'll hire people to do things in a controlled environment.  

  • Reply 176 of 285
    auxioauxio Posts: 1,987member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by drblank View Post

     

    They do it so they can fix problems.  They need people do hack their own OS and apps so they can figure out way to prevent it.  It's done in a controlled environment where they are doing it to improve their own products.  TOTALLY different.


     

    But I thought you said that such activities were illegal?  If so, then Apple is hiring criminals, regardless of whether or not it's their own products.

     
    Did you wake up this way or are you consuming drugs and/or alcohol to destroy the portion of your brain that actually uses good judgement?  Seriously.

     

    And here we've encountered the point where you've realized your arguments are falling apart, and are resorting to insults in a desperate attempt to "cling to what you know" (linking back to my discussion on people's reactions to the unfamiliar/uncomfortable).

  • Reply 177 of 285
    auxioauxio Posts: 1,987member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     

    I hope the Hackintosh community keeps existing if only to build us OS X support for future PCIe graphics cards.


     

    Yeah, I believe a lot of the hacked-for-Mac graphics card firmware was coming out the OSx86 community.

  • Reply 178 of 285
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,383member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by auxio View Post

     

     

    But I thought you said that such activities were illegal?  If so, then Apple is hiring criminals, regardless of whether or not it's their own products.

     

    And here we've encountered the point where you've realized your arguments are falling apart, and are resorting to insults in a desperate attempt to "cling to what you know" (linking back to my discussion on people's reactions to the unfamiliar/uncomfortable).


    Did you actually go to school and learn how to read?  You OBVIOUSLY missed the two operative words "CONTROLLED ENVIRONMENT".



    There are people that go to college that learn about security and learn how to break OSs in a CONTROLLED ENVIRONMENT.  That's NOT ILLEGAL.  But when you put that on the internet and out in the open that's for malicious purposes, THAT'S illegal.

     

    And when Apple hires people to hack into their systems internally, they aren't using Hackintosh computers, they are using Macs and they aren't releasing their hacks to the world, they just use that for internal purposes to help prevent hackers.  And I'm sure they will hire people that go to college, work for Government security people from time to time.  But it's all done in a controlled environment using Apple computers, not Hackintoshes.

     

    Promoting Hackintosh systems publicly is promoting criminal behavior.

  • Reply 179 of 285
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,383member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by auxio View Post

     

     

    Yeah, I believe a lot of the hacked-for-Mac graphics card firmware was coming out the OSx86 community.


    I think you need to re-read the Apple memo.  The new MacPros come with graphics cards built in and there isn't even an option to replace those cards with third party, so that "hacked for Mac graphics card firmware" goes Bye Bye.

     

    If they are using Macs and not violating Apple's licensing agreement and can come up with things that are not illegal, fine, but I don't see anything that I'm aware of that's coming out of those guys that's supported by Apple and the 3rd parties.  if you actually know of anything, let's see it.  But they should only be using Macs instead of clone boxes.

  • Reply 180 of 285
    auxioauxio Posts: 1,987member
    Quote:

    There are people that go to college that learn about security and learn how to break OSs in a CONTROLLED ENVIRONMENT.  That's NOT ILLEGAL.  But when you put that on the internet and out in the open that's for malicious purposes, THAT'S illegal.


     

    The member of the iPhone Dev Team that Apple hired (Comex) worked publicly, outside of Apple, finding ways to jailbreak iOS.  The he posted tools for others to use publicly, on the internet, outside of Apple.  No controlled environment.  So again, illegal by your definition yet hired by Apple.

     

    But please, continue to vehemently defend an argument you clearly pulled out of thin air and insult me...

Sign In or Register to comment.