Apple faces backlash over missing, changed functions in iWork revamp

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  • Reply 81 of 218
    I read the threads on Apple last night and now here... about this "fiasco" and "life threatening debacle of epic proportions", only to conclude that: there is a rather large vocal sub-group of Apple users that are seriously in need of a "reality check" in regards to the software company they have bought into. Apple will ALWAYs risk going 2 steps backwards to further their goals moving into the future. No company, prevailing school of thought ,or even their current customers and fans will get in the way of them realizing their vision of computing for the future. Steve Jobs DNA does most certainly live on in this company!

    Apple does need to realize that they have picked up a lot of new customers over the years that just are not very technically inclined i.e for example: using Google or searching in the App Store for a "diff tool". Or even simpler: make a quick folder anywhere with "Test Docs", dropping copies into it and checking out the features and/or lack there of to decide whether to trust a new program with your "live" and valuable originals. This is computing 101... but alas, no one has held their hands yet to show them the way.

    The belief is still very wide-held that an Apple device does everything well "automagically" out of the box. This remains unfortunately a future desire rather than truth. Users still need to observe good computing practices, like back-ups, finding tools that fit their needs and/or extend the capabilities of Apple's software. Or if need be, even replace software titles for a period of time before Apple gets there "reworked visions" into a usable form.

    Many have pointed to Final Cut Pro X as an example of "failure" regarding a whole new approach to a program and/or film editing. Oh my! That is in reality an example of Apple at it's very best! Because FCPX in about one more year and update, will be so far ahead as to not being caught until it's competitors do exactly the same thing: REWRITE from the ground up. All I can say is, "Have fun playing catch up!".

    I will agree that it should be Apple's desire to communicate a little more than they have done in the Steve Jobs years. Fact is, there is no underlying "genius" and "master planer" at Apple any longer, specifically with the undeniable RDF SJ alone had in spades to get people to believe in him and Apple, without fully seeing or understanding his vision.

    IMHO, we are in the very middle of a huge computing revolution, one that was begun and is currently being led by Apple. That is into a powerful, true multi-device truck vs. car computing environment where cloud services, collaboration and cross-platform performance will rule the roost. Those that can build powerful frameworks for that to happen slowly but surely today, will benefit 2,3 5 and 10 years from today. Moore's Law no longer applies; efficient and intelligent software and ecosystems will rule them all.

    Let MS continue to drag it's current clients and the masses kicking and screaming into 365 with legacy bloated software that doesn't work well;

    Let Adobe continue to deliver legacy bloated software as a subscription because it can NEVER be native on an ARM device or be run in a browser;

    Let Apple do the rewrites necessary today to be able too offer compelling software on their devices both big, small and inbetween, and across multi-platform browsers for tomorrow.

    And finally, let us imagine the day when our "cars" roar past all those trucks, even our own... in usability, user-friendliness and collaborative environments without the schackles of a closed environment or minimum configuration. :smokey:

    [B][COLOR=red]WARNING and HINT:[/COLOR][/B] the unsung hero of Mavericks and a hint at what's to come... TAGGING! Use it... understand it... because it is the File/Folder System of tomorrow on ALL Apple devices including Macs.
  • Reply 82 of 218
    There's a right way and a wrong way to deploy a new piece of software.

    Putting out a free "upgrade" that instantly deprecates a document's support for the old version is a bad move. People need warnings. It needs to be clear what is going to happen to a document, and options should be presented.

    Nobody with serious work responsibilities would be interested in destroying data in their documents permanently. It's almost like Apple is trying to underline the idea that their packaged software is worth what it costs: nothing.

    Pretty strange point to be emphasizing, if you ask me.
  • Reply 83 of 218
    freerange wrote: »
    Do you really think that Apple has no development roadmap? …Apple will continue to add functions and apabilities to their products, but without the bloat ala MSFT.…These things take time.

    I'm a lifelong journalist. The debate here seems the same as the "get it first" versus "get it right" debate in that profession.

    Critics and defenders here agree Apple tried the "get it first" route. Instead of the year of development in which Apple develops these apps toward what they were and can be, I wish they'd waited till they could bring them out with the proper tools in the first place.
  • Reply 84 of 218
    Originally Posted by mutoneon View Post

    Putting out a free "upgrade" that instantly deprecates a document's support for the old version is a bad move. People need warnings. It needs to be clear what is going to happen to a document, and options should be presented.

     

    Been the case in every single version. Why are we only hearing complaints now?

     

    Nobody with serious work responsibilities would be interested in destroying data in their documents permanently.


     

    Nobody with serious work responsibilities would have ONLY THE COPY OF THE DOCUMENT THEY’VE NOW OPENED IN THE NEW VERSION OF IWORK, and therefore would simply restore from the most recent compatible backup.

     

    It's almost like Apple is trying to underline the idea that their packaged software is worth what it costs: nothing.


     

    Thanks for the FUD. When you’ve a real argument… you know the drill.

  • Reply 85 of 218
    glnfglnf Posts: 34member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post





    Hey newbie - if you are going to post in these forums, go get yourself a good education first. When FCP X was released it was actually a complete rewrite and a V1.0 release. The iWork suite is the same. Do you really think that Apple has no development roadmap for these products? Just like FCP, Apple will continue to add functions and apabilities to their products, but without the bloat ala MSFT. In the case of FCP they provide API's for other specialty companies to add functionality and features as well making it a very powerful tool set. These things take time.

     

    The FCP fiasco was not the introduction of FCPX. Everyone was looking forward to a revamp of FCP. The fiasco was the way Apple pulled the whole of the Final Cut Pro Studio from the market over night. No more Apple Color, no more DVD Studio Pro, no more Final Cut Server and on top FCPX could not and still can't open FCP documents. So if you bought a new computer there was no legal way to continue your work on it. For a professional product there is nothing more extreme you can do to alienate your customers. Agree? And what about being a tad more friendly?

  • Reply 86 of 218
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,500member
    glnf wrote: »
    The FCP fiasco was not the introduction of FCPX. Everyone was looking forward to a revamp of FCP. The fiasco was the way Apple pulled the whole of the Final Cut Pro Studio from the market over night. No more Apple Color, no more DVD Studio Pro, no more Final Cut Server and on top FCPX could not and still can't open FCP documents. So if you bought a new computer there was no legal way to continue your work on it. For a professional product there is nothing more extreme you can do to alienate your customers. Agree? And what about being a tad more friendly?

    Well explained. The general, non pro editor world, just didn't understand the problem and assumed we were whining.
  • Reply 87 of 218
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Is anyone else getting this "Stay on Page/Leave Page" pop up dialog box when you try to refresh a page on AI forums?
  • Reply 88 of 218

    I'm sure according to the usual suspect Moderator on here anyone who doesn't think the new version is the greatest thing ever made are idiots... :no:

     

    This isn't new. Apple has a habit of taking an ok product and somehow making it worse in the next release.......then they 'fix' it the release after and somehow market it like it's a brilliant new 'feature'.

     

    Quicktime and iMovie come to mind immediately...

  • Reply 89 of 218
    rtdunham wrote: »
    I'm a lifelong journalist. The debate here seems the same as the "get it first" versus "get it right" debate in that profession.

    Critics and defenders here agree Apple tried the "get it first" route. Instead of the year of development in which Apple develops these apps toward what they were and can be, I wish they'd waited till they could bring them out with the proper tools in the first place.

    So you truthfully and wholeheartedly agree that Apple should have waited for the App Store to be in place before they presented the iPhone?

    You believe that their should have been a parity of apps for the iPad BEFORE they presented it?

    You "think" that it is wiser to stand still and continue with legacy ways of working rather than embrace new tools and change?

    May I please IMPLORE you to take 10 minutes of your busy day to see with your own eyes and hear why Final Cut Pro X had to break away from the past to be the future of cinema editing... that is here TODAY?

    If you have no desire to inform yourself... one (among many) noteworthy statements within the above short video: FCPX thru it's new frameworks i.e. rewrite, has created an App platform and SDK, where Apple is no longer required to add functionality that users desire and want in their upgrades.

    *Puns-galore summary: Apple is the "seed" that creates the "core" for other developers to build into a multi-branched and healthy tree.

    What they have already done with iOS and FCPX, they can surely accomplish with an Office Suite. Patience with an open mind is all that is needed.

    * OK... beat me with a TB cable! :smokey:
  • Reply 90 of 218
    Sorry... but one more thing is needed:

    People to quit calling themselves "professionals" in anything, if they can't read, research, practice safe computing, or be bothered to at least "try" something different before ranting on the Internet about what any company should do with their products.

    The only "Professional" I see in those people is followed by the quantifier "Loser"! :no:
  • Reply 91 of 218
    glnf wrote: »
    The FCP fiasco was not the introduction of FCPX. Everyone was looking forward to a revamp of FCP. The fiasco was the way Apple pulled the whole of the Final Cut Pro Studio from the market over night. No more Apple Color, no more DVD Studio Pro, no more Final Cut Server and on top FCPX could not and still can't open FCP documents. So if you bought a new computer there was no legal way to continue your work on it. For a professional product there is nothing more extreme you can do to alienate your customers. Agree?

    Agree with the first point, in that Apple never should have pulled FCP 7 at the same time.
    And what about being a tad more friendly?

    Need a hug? Embrace a "tree". (see my above post) :smokey:
  • Reply 92 of 218
    slurpyslurpy Posts: 5,355member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Linguist View Post



    Of course I can uninstall the new versions, or just not "upgrade" to them at all. But you haven't told me how to get the old ones for a new machine, or what to do when Apple "uninstalls" the old ones in a future OS X update, or why I should buy into the notion that unlike Micr$oft products, my day to day productivity software won't be seeing any more updates in the future, or why I should be happy that a formerly professional presentation program has been reduced to something suitable for not much more than fifth grade book reports. None of this is inevitable, but it follows from Apple's ongoing dumbing-down of OS X in favor of iOS.

     

    So tell me, since you're so desperate to use the "dumbing-down" narrative, how has OSX been "dumbed-down"? Provide a list. I use it for hours a day for professional work, am familiar with every corner of the OS, and I have only seen it get more powerful (especially mavericks), not less, and have not seen a single instance of "dumbing-down" in any of my workflows. People have been shrieking and concern trolling about how Apple is gonna replace OSX with iOS since the iPhone was first released, and since that hasn't happened, people like you will ignore the reality and stick to the same talking points anyway. Microsoft is the one that decided to slap a mobile UI on the desktop, shoving it down the throats of all users with a mouse and KB, not Apple, and there isn't a shred of evidence that they intend to. So enough with the FUD. What they HAVE been doing, is rebuilding applications from the ground up to take advantage of modern frameworks and technologies. After getting accustomed to FCPX, I could NEVER go back to verson 7.X. Its superior in all the major ways, and it's getting back all features of the old one. The same will happen with the new iWork. In the meantime, those who are ACTUALLY impeded by the new one (and not those who are pretending to be impeded by hitching their wagons to the hate fest) can continue to use the current version, which I imagine will be very easy to find for the forseeable future. There is no situation where someone would be "screwed" with this update, unless they're utterly negligent. 

     

    What I like about Apple is that they're ambitious, and unlike other companies, and are not scared about going back to the drawing board to make a superior product, which always pays off in the long-term, even though they know there will be whining and bitching along the way. They look at the big picture. 

  • Reply 93 of 218
    Mind boggeling! Why would apple choose to make such stupid changes!
  • Reply 94 of 218

    You can also ad Aperture to this... Too

  • Reply 95 of 218
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by runbuh View Post

     

    Well - that certainly makes sense from a business perspective.  My employees have to figure out which version of the apps to open which versions of the files? .. Now I have to train my users to save the document somewhere and check it out before opening it so that know which version of the app to use before opening it?  Make everyone start sharing docs in "doc" format?  This makes no business sense whosoever.  This is why Apple has trouble penetrating the business market. 


     

    Concern troll.  

     

    Your employees and users don't have to do anything given that the number of iWork 09 mac users are tiny.  Vocal perhaps but miniscule.  Essentially zero.  We have a few thousands macs where I work.  I have NEVER gotten a pages or keynote file from anyone.  Even from the real Apple fanbois.  It just isn't widely used for business.

     

    When we cycle over to new machines, should I want to use keynote or pages, at least I have the confidence that if the other person has a mac, they can read my docs natively.  But frankly, until Apple provides a pages and keynote reader on Windows it still isn't likely to happen.

  • Reply 96 of 218
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post

     

     

    Only if I input text somewhere before closing the tab, but that’s standard behavior.

     

    Originally Posted by iampatrick View Post

    You can also ad Aperture to this... Too

     

    Why, since nothing was removed?

  • Reply 97 of 218
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post




    Apple does need to realize that they have picked up a lot of new customers over the years that just are not very technically inclined i.e for example: using Google or searching in the App Store for a "diff tool". Or even simpler: make a quick folder anywhere with "Test Docs", dropping copies into it and checking out the features and/or lack there of to decide whether to trust a new program with your "live" and valuable originals. This is computing 101... but alas, no one has held their hands yet to show them the way.

     

     

    It's unfortunate that most users aren't accustomed to these sorts of best practices. The technical users who observe these practices, who probably already use version control tools like git or kalaidescope, probably aren't the ones caught off-guard by the changes in iWork.

     

    Quote:

     Apple will ALWAYs risk going 2 steps backwards to further their goals moving into the future. No company, prevailing school of thought ,or even their current customers and fans will get in the way of them realizing their vision of computing for the future. Steve Jobs DNA does most certainly live on in this company!


    The thing is, sometimes these two steps backward seem avoidable. For example, Apple might keep the previous iWork available for download until the new one restores feature parity.

  • Reply 98 of 218
    haggarhaggar Posts: 1,568member

    What does compatibility between Mac OS and iOS versions have to do with removing features from Mac OS version?  Couldn't they just add the features to the iOS version while leaving the Mac OS version intact?

     

    What does "it's a brand-new version" have to do with missing features?  Does that mean you delete all your previous work from your servers, delete all the previous code from your records, and pretend that those previous versions never existed?

     

    Before this update, many people were saying every Mac user should replace Microsoft Office with iWork.  Now they are backpedaling and saying iWork is not for advanced users or 'power users'.

  • Reply 99 of 218
    haggarhaggar Posts: 1,568member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

     

     

    So tell me, since you're so desperate to use the "dumbing-down" narrative, how has OSX been "dumbed-down"? Provide a list. I use it for hours a day for professional work, am familiar with every corner of the OS, and I have only seen it get more powerful (especially mavericks), not less, and have not seen a single instance of "dumbing-down" in any of my workflows. 


     

    People could give examples of things that do not work properly in Mavericks, some of which are problems which existed in previous versions of Mac OS X and are still not fixed in Mavericks.  But you would just respond by saying things like who cares, I don't use those features, get used to it, it's a feature not a bug, etc.

  • Reply 100 of 218
    runbuh wrote: »
    What if I only have the new version (because I'm a new Mac user) and someone wants me to read a file created with the old version?

    Open it and restore previous version. Or open it with preview if you so prefer.
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