Analyst predicts Apple will transform notebook market with 12-inch hybrid 'iPad Pro' this fall

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  • Reply 161 of 236
    thepixeldocthepixeldoc Posts: 2,257member
    jungmark wrote: »
    No, it's the internet. We need to argue, call each other names! /s

    I get what your saying but I don't think it's going to happen. I don't think the iPad will ever be able to run "power" programs. The people who buy the MBA are not the same as those buying an iPad.
    I believe that really depends on what you consider and where you classify power programs. Also, how many people need/use saiid power programs on a daily basis. MS Office is not a power program suite FYI, considering that 90% of it's functionality and daily use has been available for 15+ years on hardware far less capable than an iPad.

    Video and Photo AKA Pushing Pixels comes in 2 flavors these days: pro and consumer. That recent Apple ad for xmas was pretty nice, and the slew of photo apps and their incredibly intuitive UIs on iOS make Photoshop, Aperture/Lightroom and co look downright paleolithic. *I* still need said programs running on the fastest hardware I can afford.... But how many other normal people do?
    zoolook wrote: »
    Wow, you convinced me. What a great argument; well put, quoted all the facts, really coherent.You should quit whatever job you have and become a diplomat, or go into arbitration. Where did you learn such sharp debating skills? 3rd grade?

    I believe his curt answer was a sad attempt at channeling SJ. Made me chuckle...:smokey:
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  • Reply 162 of 236
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,784member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by v5v View Post

     

     

    Anyone consider the possibility that maybe he was WRONG?

     

    Grab a MacBook Air. Place it close to you. Reach up and touch the screen as if you were sliding something off the screen or scaling an image. It feels perfectly natural -- certainly MUCH more natural than using a trackpad to perform the same operations.


    All the time but God forbid you say he was wrong unless you want to be crucified by the Church of Jobs.

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  • Reply 163 of 236
    philboogiephilboogie Posts: 7,675member
    v5v wrote: »
    philboogie wrote: »
    <span style="line-height:1.4em;">Steve already said they tried it but that they came to the conclusion that a touch screen needs to be flat, not vertical. </span>

    Anyone consider the possibility that maybe he was WRONG?

    Absolutely, that is possible. Or people change their stance on something after they discover new information.
    Grab a MacBook Air. Place it close to you. Reach up and touch the screen as if you were sliding something off the screen or scaling an image. It feels perfectly natural -- certainly MUCH more natural than using a trackpad to perform the same operations.

    Try that for 8 hours with a 30 minute lunchbreak halfway.
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  • Reply 164 of 236
    virtuavirtua Posts: 210member
    philboogie wrote: »
    Absolutely, that is possible. Or people change their stance on something after they discover new information.
    Try that for 8 hours with a 30 minute lunchbreak halfway.

    Haha ;p
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  • Reply 165 of 236
    sirozhasirozha Posts: 801member
    What iPad desperately lacks for the use in the enterprise is a mouse and an interface designed to be used with a mouse. When jailbroken, iPad is capable of being used with a mouse, and utilizing Jump Desktop and a mouse, one gets a pretty solid thin client. A 12" iPad with a mouse can serve 90% of business needs.

    Why would consumers buy such a hybrid device? Because it can replace an iPad and a MacBook for most people. Use it as a tablet when consuming and as a laptop when creating content.

    The real challenge here is the OS. I believe Apple is working on merging iOS with OS X. Such a hybrid device will have to have a hybrid OS. This is going to be like Microsoft Surface, but implemented with perfection. As for processor and memory intensive tasks, use a Mac desktop.

    Right now Apple created a little bit of confusion for consumers with iPads, MacBook Airs, Retina MacBook Pros, and non-Retina MacBook Pros. The product line needs to be simplified. Apple will get rid of MacBook Airs and replace them with iPad Pros. Non-Retina MacBook Pros will be discontinued as well, and the price of Retina MacBook Pros will be further reduced. Most consumers will be satisfied with iPad Pros, which will cost less than Retina MacBook Pros, while being more profitable for Apple than MacBook Pros.

    I, for one, would get an iPad Mini, iPad Pro, Mac Mini, and a high resolution monitor (new Apple TV?) to cover all my computing needs.
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  • Reply 166 of 236
    philboogiephilboogie Posts: 7,675member
    sirozha wrote: »
    What iPad desperately lacks

    Is for someone to understanding the product
    for the use in the enterprise is a mouse and an interface designed to be used with a mouse

    because that has worked so well for MS the last decade
    When jailbroken, iPad is capable of being used with a mouse, and utilizing Jump Desktop and a mouse, one gets a pretty solid thin client. A 12" iPad with a mouse can serve 90% of business needs.

    Right now it's serving 100% of its clients
    Why would consumers buy such a hybrid device? Because it can replace an iPad and a MacBook for most people. Use it as a tablet when consuming and as a laptop when creating content.

    They wouldn't buy that because they are buying separate products for separate uses.
    The real challenge here is the OS. I believe Apple is working on merging iOS with OS X. Such a hybrid device will have to have a hybrid OS. This is going to be like Microsoft Surface, but implemented with perfection. As for processor and memory intensive tasks, use a Mac desktop.

    You don't get Apple. At all.
    Right now Apple created a little bit of confusion for consumers with iPads, MacBook Airs, Retina MacBook Pros, and non-Retina MacBook Pros.

    No confusion here. People buy what they want.
    The product line needs to be simplified.

    Just for you to understand, while the rest of the world perfectly understands their products, and its purposes.

    [/quote]Apple will get rid of MacBook Airs and replace them with iPad Pros.[/quote]

    You're an analyst?
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  • Reply 167 of 236
    sirozhasirozha Posts: 801member
    philboogie wrote: »
    Is for someone to understanding the product
    because that has worked so well for MS the last decade
    Right now it's serving 100% of its clients
    They wouldn't buy that because they are buying separate products for separate uses.
    You don't get Apple. At all.
    No confusion here. People buy what they want.
    Just for you to understand, while the rest of the world perfectly understands their products, and its purposes.
    I live in a free country, and this is a forum for expressing one's opinions. That's my opinion.

    I do understand Apple. I have been successfully investing in Apple for years.

    iPad does not serve 100% of business needs. It provides minimum functionality for technical users. I am an IT engineer, and I have almost no practical use for the iPad. Without jailbreaking it, I cannot effectively use it as a Remote Desktop client or a VNC client for work. It can only serve as a last-ditch resort to get into a remote system if I have no laptop handy. Once jailbroken and used with a mouse, the iPad's usability increases dramatically, but it's inability to run multitasking with backgrounding slows one's work dramatically. Same goes for using the iPad as a terminal application client. No mouse and lack of multitasking makes it a pain to use the iPad for work.

    Of course if you are watching Netflix or wasting your life on Facebook on the iPad, you are oblivious to its shortcomings as a business-class substitute for a laptop.

    Don't get me wrong, if all you do at work is read and reply to emails, which is what managers mostly do, you will never understand the technical challenges that engineers face when trying to use the ipad for work.

    I love the iPad as a content consumption device, but it doesn't come close to my MacBook Pro when it comes to doing real work. The two feature that I mentioned - mouse support and multitasking with backgrounding (along with a 12" screen) would allow me to do most of my work on such a hybrid device.
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  • Reply 168 of 236
    philboogiephilboogie Posts: 7,675member
    sirozha wrote: »
    I live in a free country, and this is a forum for expressing one's opinions. That's my opinion.

    Couldn't have said it better myself
    I do understand Apple. I have been successfully investing in Apple for years.

    These are two completely different things, but whatever.
    iPad does not serve 100% of business needs. It provides minimum functionality for technical users. I am an IT engineer, and I have almost no practical use for the iPad. Without jailbreaking it, I cannot effectively use it as a Remote Desktop client or a VNC client for work. It can only serve as a last-ditch resort to get into a remote system if I have no laptop handy. Once jailbroken and used with a mouse, the iPad's usability increases dramatically, but it's inability to run multitasking with backgrounding slows one's work dramatically. Same goes for using the iPad as a terminal application client. No mouse and lack of multitasking makes it a pain to use the iPad for work.

    Hence the lack of reason to jail brake it.
    Of course if you are watching Netflix or wasting your life on Facebook on the iPad, you are oblivious to its shortcomings as a business-class substitute for a laptop.

    News flash for you to try to grasp; it's not supposed to substitute it.
    Don't get me wrong, if all you do at work is read and reply to emails, which is what managers mostly do, you will never understand the technical challenges that engineers face when trying to use the ipad for work.

    There are other computers to fulfil this need. Have been around for a long time.
    I love the iPad as a content consumption device, but it doesn't come close to my MacBook Pro when it comes to doing real work. The two feature that I mentioned - mouse support and multitasking with backgrounding (along with a 12" screen) would allow me to do most of my work on such a hybrid device.

    Hang on to that MBP of yours; you're going to need it if you want to remain employed.
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  • Reply 169 of 236
    smalmsmalm Posts: 677member
    Quote:



    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

    Meanwhile, someone out there is inventing (or has invented) a third paradigm.

    And they had to write off $900 million for that bad idea.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by st88 View Post

    And that's the current Haswell, this will be facing Broadwell.

    No, Broadwell will have to face the Cyclone successor.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ingela View Post

    When introducing the A7, they made a big point of calling it "desktop class." So they must have plans of using future A series arm chips on iOS desktop/laptop type devices. 

    I think they meant it can now handle desktop class applications.

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  • Reply 170 of 236
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by smalM View Post

     

    And they had to write off $900 million for that bad idea.


     

    Ha ha... that's like saying that the iPad would fail because the Newton was unsuccessful.

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  • Reply 171 of 236
    smalmsmalm Posts: 677member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Zoolook View Post

     

    The real question is whether the ARM chips can run OS X anywhere close to Haswell. Apparently the A5 could just about manage it. A 64-bit quad-core A8 with enough RAM should be able to pull it off, with some performance compromises.


    What are you talking about? Running X86 code on ARM? It will crawl... 

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  • Reply 172 of 236
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,979member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post





    Run FCPX, for starters!

     

    Yeah because all consumers buy a MBA to run FCP and professionals just love using FCP on an 11" screen with a ULV processor. How about something realistic in an everyday environment. 

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  • Reply 173 of 236
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,979member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by v5v View Post

     

     

    Anyone consider the possibility that maybe he was WRONG?

     

    Grab a MacBook Air. Place it close to you. Reach up and touch the screen as if you were sliding something off the screen or scaling an image. It feels perfectly natural -- certainly MUCH more natural than using a trackpad to perform the same operations.


     

    What world do you live in? Trying reaching out and touching a screen for a few hours and see how your arm feels. Tell me how many times you've pushed the hand rest up in the air by touching the screen. I think you're living in bubble with your own hopes and dreams. 

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  • Reply 174 of 236
    Originally Posted by v5v View Post

    Over the last year or two I've described at least half a dozen (maybe more) ways that touch on a computer screen would be beneficial and convenient while you cling to ONE liability.


     

    I don’t remember any of them, probably because none of them are valid.

     

    You don't even acknowledge that your single objection is not even always an issue.



     

    That’s only because it is always an issue.

     


    You've already made it clear that you lack imagination and fear change.



     

    That’s absolutely hilarious. Do you have any proof of this whatsoever? Oh, you know what actually lacks imagination? “Hey guys, let’s just put a touchscreen on this old design we’ve been using since 1994.”

     

    Originally Posted by v5v View Post

    Reach up and touch the screen as if you were sliding something off the screen or scaling an image. It feels perfectly natural


     

    Aside from the fact that it doesn’t, now do it for eight hours.

     

    Originally Posted by sirozha View Post

    What iPad desperately lacks for the use in the enterprise is a mouse and an interface designed to be used with a mouse. 

     

    You don’t have the first flipping clue what the iPad is. Come off it.

     

    Why would consumers buy such a hybrid device? 


     

    Because some people are stupid enough to buy anything put in front of them.

     

    The real challenge here is the OS.


     

    No, it isn’t. They’ve already defeated that challenge. They made a touchscreen OS for touchscreen devices and a cursor OS for cursor devices. There’s a reason that they’re not the same OS.

     

    I believe Apple is working on merging iOS with OS X. 


     

    Right (ish).

     

    Such a hybrid device will have to have a hybrid OS. 


     

    Wrong, because it’s not a hybrid device.

     

    This is going to be like Microsoft Surface…


     

    The scariest thing is that this statement didn’t raise any red flags for you.

     

    Right now Apple created a little bit of confusion for consumers with iPads, MacBook Airs, Retina MacBook Pros, and non-Retina MacBook Pros.


     

    No, not really. You want a laptop, buy a laptop. You want a tablet, buy a tablet. If that’s confusing for you, you really need to stay away from technology.

     

    Now what would actually be confusing is selling a tablet, a laptop, and a tabtop, the latter of which does absolutely nothing correctly.

     

     


    Originally Posted by sirozha View Post

    I live in a free country, and this is a forum for expressing one's opinions. That's my opinion.

     

    Right, it’s just wrong, is all.

     


    I do understand Apple.

     

    You think a tablet needs a mouse. You don’t understand Apple at all.

     

    iPad does not serve 100% of business needs. It provides minimum functionality for technical users. I am an IT engineer, and I have almost no practical use for the iPad. Without jailbreaking it, I cannot effectively use it as a Remote Desktop client or a VNC client for work. It can only serve as a last-ditch resort to get into a remote system if I have no laptop handy. Once jailbroken and used with a mouse, the iPad's usability increases dramatically, but it's inability to run multitasking with backgrounding slows one's work dramatically. Same goes for using the iPad as a terminal application client. No mouse and lack of multitasking makes it a pain to use the iPad for work.


     

    Sounds like you need to buy a laptop… but just refuse to buy a laptop.

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  • Reply 175 of 236
    zoolookzoolook Posts: 657member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by smalM View Post

     

    What are you talking about? Running X86 code on ARM? It will crawl... 


     

    Of course not, you recompile for ARM - Apple have already done this when they switched from PPC to Intel.

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  • Reply 176 of 236
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,927member
    v5v wrote: »
    Anyone consider the possibility that maybe he was WRONG?

    Grab a MacBook Air. Place it close to you. Reach up and touch the screen as if you were sliding something off the screen or scaling an image. It feels perfectly natural -- certainly MUCH more natural than using a trackpad to perform the same operations.

    Ok. Touch the screen then start to type an email on the keyboard then send the email by touching the screen. Then close window then search by typing. Do that for 8-9 hours. How annoying would that be.
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  • Reply 177 of 236
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jungmark View Post





    Ok. Touch the screen then start to type an email on the keyboard then send the email by touching the screen. Then close window then search by typing. Do that for 8-9 hours. How annoying would that be.

     

    Sounds fine to me. Every time I switch from the iPhone/iPad to my MBP I'm always touching the screen and wondering why it won't respond.   <img class=" src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />
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  • Reply 178 of 236
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    macxpress wrote: »
    What world do you live in? Trying reaching out and touching a screen for a few hours and see how your arm feels. Tell me how many times you've pushed the hand rest up in the air by touching the screen. I think you're living in bubble with your own hopes and dreams. 
    A touch only interface would be mega fatigue, but touch for some gesture and navigation combined with keyboard and mouse for everything else wouldn't be much of a problem.
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  • Reply 179 of 236
    smalmsmalm Posts: 677member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Zoolook View Post

     

     

    Of course not, you recompile for ARM - Apple have already done this when they switched from PPC to Intel.


    Old Applications and applications from third parties will not be recompiled.

    And at that time Apple switched to a much faster CPU (same when they switched from 68K to PPC).

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  • Reply 180 of 236
    zoolookzoolook Posts: 657member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by smalM View Post

     

    Old Applications and applications from third parties will not be recompiled.

    And at that time Apple switched to a much faster CPU (same when they switched from 68K to PPC).


     

    3rd parties will recompile if necessary, just like they did with the previous switches - your first statement is simply not reflected by what has happened historically.

     

    There certainly is a danger of giving up performance, but when when you see that Haswell is 22% of the cost of a MBA, whereas a potential A8 would be a fraction of that, it looks compelling to Apple. Not to mention power consumption... and if you remember the Intel switch, it was all about 'performance per watt'.

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