I think Apple very consciously made iOS for consuming content, not so much creating it (obviously, it's possible, but you should really have a computer), part of the reason being that it is quite hard to design productivity applications (e.g., Office) to work on a tablet, for a myriad reasons (small screen, non-existent keyboard, etc). I am not sure why MSFT did not take heed (well, it is tempting to leverage their dominance in office application, but it just does not work -- I remember trying to run Excel on a Sony Duo with its 11" screen, and trying to type into those teeny cells -- not fun). Otherwise, my view (but what do I know...) is that either MSFT should have done a full port of windows to ARM (perhaps via some emulation scheme -- God knows they have the best compiler people at MS Research), or nothing.
I think the reason why Microsoft went down this route is for the very reason you mention - a tablet is mainly used for consumption, but that's a form factor issue. That's why they created the Surface. If the Surface was available with a 13" screen, it would be an excellent productivity device. But a tablet can also be docked and used with an external monitor, mouse and keyboard, which is again where Surface RT makes a tablet much more productive when you want it to be.
I agree, Apple deliberately made iOS and iPad primarily a consumer device, whereas Microsoft deliberately designed Windows RT to support productivity devices. I often see business people struggling to turn their iPads into something it was never designed to be. Those are the kinds of people for whom the Surface / Windows RT type of device was designed for.
Gates and Ballmer are both major shareholders in MS so they will always be part of that company's DNA. It will be interesting to see if they move back to the old tactics of dumping to remove competitors and using monopolistic methods to build market share while sitting on standards setting committees then basing their own proprietary solutions on them after pulling out.
Embrace extend extinguish.
They will always have an interest in the success of Microsoft, so they'll sit on the board or "help where they can", but there is a chance that they really are "all in" for change. I have always believed that boards hire executives to lead and make decisions for the company, and not just say "yes" to whatever the chairman wants.
I think the reason why Microsoft went down this route is for the very reason you mention - a tablet is mainly used for consumption, but that's a form factor issue. That's why they created the Surface. If the Surface was available with a 13" screen, it would be an excellent productivity device. But a tablet can also be docked and used with an external monitor, mouse and keyboard, which is again where Surface RT makes a tablet much more productive when you want it to be.
I agree, Apple deliberately made iOS and iPad primarily a consumer device, whereas Microsoft deliberately designed Windows RT to support productivity devices. I often see business people struggling to turn their iPads into something it was never designed to be. Those are the kinds of people for whom the Surface / Windows RT type of device was made for.
The Surface is a Frankenstein's monster of poorly conceived design. An unholy mix of tablet and laptop with the worst implementations of both form factors.
The Surface is a Frankenstein's monster of poorly conceived design. An unholy mix of tablet and laptop with the worst implementations of both form factors.
Why? Can you be a little more specific and give examples? Conceptually, I don't see how it's any different to someone buying a physical "keyboard + case" accessory for an iPad.
What exactly makes the Surface 2 (ARM version) the worst implementation of a tablet form factor, in your opinion?
I agree, Apple deliberately made iOS and iPad primarily a consumer device, whereas Microsoft deliberately designed Windows RT to support productivity devices. I often see business people struggling to turn their iPads into something it was never designed to be. Those are the kinds of people for whom the Surface / Windows RT type of device was made for.
That's a fiction you tell yourself. Reality is that people are using the iPad in enterprise and small businesses, in a wide variety of ways. You ignorance of this, and your fantasies about Windows 8 RT, which independent hardware manufacturers have wisely avoided because look how many unsold Surface RTs there were, says that you are describing your idealized worldview.
That's a fiction you tell yourself. Reality is that people are using the iPad in enterprise and small businesses, in a wide variety of ways. You ignorance of this, and your fantasies about Windows 8 RT, which independent hardware manufacturers have wisely avoided because look how many unsold Surface RTs there were, says that you are describing your idealized worldview.
On the contrary, I never said anything of the sort. I know full well people use them in enterprise - my company included, and I write software for them too.
The point I was making, which you missed, is that many business users are trying to make the iPad into something it's not. It can't show you more than one app on screen at a time. It was never designed to be used as a laptop. It was not designed to be used as a desktop. etc etc. But some people insist on trying (and failing) to make it work like a full productivity device.
And I'm not just talking about RT. I'm talking about Windows 8 x86 version which has obvious benefits over RT.
Why? Can you be a little more specific and give examples? Conceptually, I don't see how it's any different to someone buying a physical "keyboard + case" accessory for an iPad.
What exactly makes the Surface 2 (ARM version) the worst implementation of a tablet form factor, in your opinion?
Look at their sales figures and ask yourself... Why is this not selling? What is wrong with this? Why do people prefer tablets and laptops over a combined device?
Look at their sales figures and ask yourself... Why is this not selling? What is wrong with this? Why do people prefer tablets and laptops over a combined device?
You didn't answer my question. You said -
''The Surface is a Frankenstein's monster of poorly conceived design. An unholy mix of tablet and laptop with the worst implementations of both form factors.''
but you can't explain how.
All kinds of things affect sales, including price and availability.
The Surface is a Frankenstein's monster of poorly conceived design. An unholy mix of tablet and laptop with the worst implementations of both form factors.
Look at their sales figures and ask yourself... Why is this not selling? What is wrong with this? Why do people prefer tablets and laptops over a combined device?
Part of the reason it is not selling is what was already mentioned by me (and WP7Mango): windows RT is just like windows, except it's not windows. The Surface Pro 2, I have no idea how well it is selling, but it is in a pretty crowded market (Lenovo alone has a bunch of convertible devices), and MSFT can't be too aggressive vs its own OEMs. The point is, there are many reason why something does not sell well, only one of which is poor design, so what you say makes no sense.
Wow look at all the positive windows posts... They must really be making better products now. oh wait, it's just two guys posting back and forth. Hey you two, get a room!
Wow look at all the positive windows posts... They must really be making better products now. oh wait, it's just two guys posting back and forth. Hey you two, get a room!
I think you should get your own room where you can pleasure yourself in peace and not annoy people.
Currently Microsoft makes a better tablet OS than Apple. Currently Microsoft has better services, such as Azure. They both have good pro apps. Microsoft offers a better mobile Office Suite. IE11 is better than Safari.
Have you actually used windows? Other than the fact that both Windows and Mac OS use, umm, windows and a recycle bin, the look and feel is completely different, and the usage modes are quite different as well. Given that Mac was not the first, second, or third computer to use a window system, I am not sure what you are on about.
I suspect you are not 40-something or older. Those of us who lived through the DOS -> Mac OS -> Windows history in the late 80s/early 90s scoff at your summary from a 21st century perspective. There were no other exemplars to steal from when Windows 3.1 and Windows 95 were in full blown copy-Apple mode. (Ok maybe they also stole a thing of two from the Amiga, but I wouldn't know.)
I suspect you are not 40-something or older. Those of us who lived through the DOS -> Mac OS -> Windows history in the late 80s/early 90s scoff at your summary from a 21st century perspective. There were no other exemplars to steal from when Windows 3.1 and Windows 95 were in full blown copy-Apple mode. (Ok maybe they also stole a thing of two from the Amiga, but I wouldn't know.)
Actually, the windows (certainly Windows 3.1)look is much closer to the Amiga than it is to the Mac.
This post is nothing but insults. Moderators: are you EVER going to ban this troll?
Wow, windows people spend all day on forums, stressing themselves / others out. Definitely a different breed. You guys should get outside, there's a whole world out there!
1. Windows 8/RT can display 2 or 3 apps side by side. iOS only displays 1 app at a time.
2. Windows 8/RT supports multi-user accounts.
3. Windows 8/RT has a better on-screen keyboard than the iPad. It can display a full size standard keyboard layout, with numbers at the top and even function keys, so you can use it just like a physical keyboard and not mess around with switching between letter and numbers. Also, when you press Caps or Shift, the letters on the keyboard change case rather than just lighting up the Shift key.
4. Windows 8/RT has much better support for external storage, such as USB 3.0 sticks, external hard drives, etc.
5. Windows 8RT gives you access to the full file system with a file manager.
6. Windows 8/RT supports a mouse too. If you connect the tablet to an external monitor (by cable or wirelessly) then you can use the tablet as a desktop base unit.
7. Windows 8/RT has full multi-monitor support, similar to a Mac.
8. Windows 8/RT has a much better framework for apps to share data with each other and to be able to do global native searches for content stored within apps.
9. Windows 8/RT is much more customisable with it's live tiles.
I could go on, but it clearly demonstrates the superior capability of Windows 8 and Windows RT compared with iOS.
Pro apps - there are plenty available for both platforms. Most companies which do pro apps support both platforms equally.
I'll give some damn good reasons for why iOS is better than any other OS that claims to be (yet another wannabe) "iOS killer":
1. Quantity of apps (doesn't matter that much)
2. Quality of apps (does matter a lot)
3. Stability and general reliability of the OS
4. UI
5. Focused (all Microsoft products don't know what they are - laptop? desktop? tablet? hybrid? hybrid with mouse? partially hybrid? car? fork?)
6. Simple
7. Fast
You said that you could "go on", so please do. Because what I found in your reasons was desperation and insecurity. How can you think that having mouse connectivity is more important than having apps? Better yet, how can you say that based on these puny features you could call the Windows 8/RT an iOS killer which set the benchmark and the very definition of a 'modern tablet'?
Comments
I think Apple very consciously made iOS for consuming content, not so much creating it (obviously, it's possible, but you should really have a computer), part of the reason being that it is quite hard to design productivity applications (e.g., Office) to work on a tablet, for a myriad reasons (small screen, non-existent keyboard, etc). I am not sure why MSFT did not take heed (well, it is tempting to leverage their dominance in office application, but it just does not work -- I remember trying to run Excel on a Sony Duo with its 11" screen, and trying to type into those teeny cells -- not fun). Otherwise, my view (but what do I know...) is that either MSFT should have done a full port of windows to ARM (perhaps via some emulation scheme -- God knows they have the best compiler people at MS Research), or nothing.
I think the reason why Microsoft went down this route is for the very reason you mention - a tablet is mainly used for consumption, but that's a form factor issue. That's why they created the Surface. If the Surface was available with a 13" screen, it would be an excellent productivity device. But a tablet can also be docked and used with an external monitor, mouse and keyboard, which is again where Surface RT makes a tablet much more productive when you want it to be.
I agree, Apple deliberately made iOS and iPad primarily a consumer device, whereas Microsoft deliberately designed Windows RT to support productivity devices. I often see business people struggling to turn their iPads into something it was never designed to be. Those are the kinds of people for whom the Surface / Windows RT type of device was designed for.
Embrace extend extinguish.
They will always have an interest in the success of Microsoft, so they'll sit on the board or "help where they can", but there is a chance that they really are "all in" for change. I have always believed that boards hire executives to lead and make decisions for the company, and not just say "yes" to whatever the chairman wants.
Otherwise, why force Ballmer into retirement?
The Surface is a Frankenstein's monster of poorly conceived design. An unholy mix of tablet and laptop with the worst implementations of both form factors.
The Surface is a Frankenstein's monster of poorly conceived design. An unholy mix of tablet and laptop with the worst implementations of both form factors.
Why? Can you be a little more specific and give examples? Conceptually, I don't see how it's any different to someone buying a physical "keyboard + case" accessory for an iPad.
What exactly makes the Surface 2 (ARM version) the worst implementation of a tablet form factor, in your opinion?
That's a fiction you tell yourself. Reality is that people are using the iPad in enterprise and small businesses, in a wide variety of ways. You ignorance of this, and your fantasies about Windows 8 RT, which independent hardware manufacturers have wisely avoided because look how many unsold Surface RTs there were, says that you are describing your idealized worldview.
That's a fiction you tell yourself. Reality is that people are using the iPad in enterprise and small businesses, in a wide variety of ways. You ignorance of this, and your fantasies about Windows 8 RT, which independent hardware manufacturers have wisely avoided because look how many unsold Surface RTs there were, says that you are describing your idealized worldview.
On the contrary, I never said anything of the sort. I know full well people use them in enterprise - my company included, and I write software for them too.
The point I was making, which you missed, is that many business users are trying to make the iPad into something it's not. It can't show you more than one app on screen at a time. It was never designed to be used as a laptop. It was not designed to be used as a desktop. etc etc. But some people insist on trying (and failing) to make it work like a full productivity device.
And I'm not just talking about RT. I'm talking about Windows 8 x86 version which has obvious benefits over RT.
Look at their sales figures and ask yourself... Why is this not selling? What is wrong with this? Why do people prefer tablets and laptops over a combined device?
Look at their sales figures and ask yourself... Why is this not selling? What is wrong with this? Why do people prefer tablets and laptops over a combined device?
You didn't answer my question. You said -
''The Surface is a Frankenstein's monster of poorly conceived design. An unholy mix of tablet and laptop with the worst implementations of both form factors.''
but you can't explain how.
All kinds of things affect sales, including price and availability.
The Surface is a Frankenstein's monster of poorly conceived design. An unholy mix of tablet and laptop with the worst implementations of both form factors.
Have you actually used it?
Look at their sales figures and ask yourself... Why is this not selling? What is wrong with this? Why do people prefer tablets and laptops over a combined device?
Part of the reason it is not selling is what was already mentioned by me (and WP7Mango): windows RT is just like windows, except it's not windows. The Surface Pro 2, I have no idea how well it is selling, but it is in a pretty crowded market (Lenovo alone has a bunch of convertible devices), and MSFT can't be too aggressive vs its own OEMs. The point is, there are many reason why something does not sell well, only one of which is poor design, so what you say makes no sense.
Wow look at all the positive windows posts... They must really be making better products now.
I think you should get your own room where you can pleasure yourself in peace and not annoy people.
Currently, Microsoft is a hot cross bun.
Have you actually used windows? Other than the fact that both Windows and Mac OS use, umm, windows and a recycle bin, the look and feel is completely different, and the usage modes are quite different as well. Given that Mac was not the first, second, or third computer to use a window system, I am not sure what you are on about.
I suspect you are not 40-something or older. Those of us who lived through the DOS -> Mac OS -> Windows history in the late 80s/early 90s scoff at your summary from a 21st century perspective. There were no other exemplars to steal from when Windows 3.1 and Windows 95 were in full blown copy-Apple mode. (Ok maybe they also stole a thing of two from the Amiga, but I wouldn't know.)
I suspect you are not 40-something or older. Those of us who lived through the DOS -> Mac OS -> Windows history in the late 80s/early 90s scoff at your summary from a 21st century perspective. There were no other exemplars to steal from when Windows 3.1 and Windows 95 were in full blown copy-Apple mode. (Ok maybe they also stole a thing of two from the Amiga, but I wouldn't know.)
Actually, the windows (certainly Windows 3.1)look is much closer to the Amiga than it is to the Mac.
Examples of how Windows 8 RT is better than iOS -
Not a single one of your points can be considered better an any conceivable fashion.
I think you should get your own room where you can pleasure yourself in peace and not annoy people.
Or you could shut up and attempt to prove him wrong. Seeing as you didn’t…
Not a single one of your points can be considered better an any conceivable fashion.
You’re such a worthless idiot.
Or you could shut up and attempt to prove him wrong. Seeing as you didn’t…
This post is nothing but insults. Moderators: are you EVER going to ban this troll?
Wow, windows people spend all day on forums, stressing themselves / others out. Definitely a different breed. You guys should get outside, there's a whole world out there!
Examples of how Windows 8 RT is better than iOS -
1. Windows 8/RT can display 2 or 3 apps side by side. iOS only displays 1 app at a time.
2. Windows 8/RT supports multi-user accounts.
3. Windows 8/RT has a better on-screen keyboard than the iPad. It can display a full size standard keyboard layout, with numbers at the top and even function keys, so you can use it just like a physical keyboard and not mess around with switching between letter and numbers. Also, when you press Caps or Shift, the letters on the keyboard change case rather than just lighting up the Shift key.
4. Windows 8/RT has much better support for external storage, such as USB 3.0 sticks, external hard drives, etc.
5. Windows 8RT gives you access to the full file system with a file manager.
6. Windows 8/RT supports a mouse too. If you connect the tablet to an external monitor (by cable or wirelessly) then you can use the tablet as a desktop base unit.
7. Windows 8/RT has full multi-monitor support, similar to a Mac.
8. Windows 8/RT has a much better framework for apps to share data with each other and to be able to do global native searches for content stored within apps.
9. Windows 8/RT is much more customisable with it's live tiles.
I could go on, but it clearly demonstrates the superior capability of Windows 8 and Windows RT compared with iOS.
Pro apps - there are plenty available for both platforms. Most companies which do pro apps support both platforms equally.
I'll give some damn good reasons for why iOS is better than any other OS that claims to be (yet another wannabe) "iOS killer":
1. Quantity of apps (doesn't matter that much)
2. Quality of apps (does matter a lot)
3. Stability and general reliability of the OS
4. UI
5. Focused (all Microsoft products don't know what they are - laptop? desktop? tablet? hybrid? hybrid with mouse? partially hybrid? car? fork?)
6. Simple
7. Fast
You said that you could "go on", so please do. Because what I found in your reasons was desperation and insecurity. How can you think that having mouse connectivity is more important than having apps? Better yet, how can you say that based on these puny features you could call the Windows 8/RT an iOS killer which set the benchmark and the very definition of a 'modern tablet'?
Not a single one of your points can be considered better an any conceivable fashion.
You’re such a worthless idiot.
Or you could shut up and attempt to prove him wrong. Seeing as you didn’t…
Wow, how constructive of you!