I didn't bother quoting everybody who got it wrong. Why mention 2.5%.
He's seeing something excessive and stating that you'd have to go much much lower to reach what he would find acceptable. He got nothing wrong. We use this technique often in communication but I'm not sure if there is a name for it.
He's seeing something excessive and stating that you'd have to go much much lower to reach what he would find acceptable. He got nothing wrong. We use this technique often in communication but I'm not sure if there is a name for it.
No he's using the stats from TheOtherGeoff and saying even 10% of 25% is too high. Geoff first mentioned 2.5%.
You are right about one thing. I should have used multi -quote.
Sure, it's a massive new profit center for them with nearly zero risk. Just wait until Apple Financial Services (aka Apple Bank) comes on the scene...
Originally Posted by melgross
I wonder if it would pay for Apple to do that. That's a layer of regulation that Apple won't need with this. Besides, at least here in New York, there's already an Apple Bank.
I'm not so sure. I think everyone is still thinking too small.
I hesitate to even mention this possibility as I don't want to jinx it, but the ultimate holy grail would obviously be to own the process from end to end, as impossible as that sounds. Apple will (at least initially) own the front end on the customer side because they are at the center of this new world and they have the only mobile devices equipped for this. Most of the middlemen are currently still in place with the proposed system. There's no way they could have gotten cooperation from everyone otherwise, so that all makes perfect sense. Apple already has 800 million users, most of whom have CCs on file. Let's get millions of people comfortable with this system for a while, and then...
Many, if not most merchants are going to need to upgrade their POS systems, right? This has been a big part of almost all the discussions around Apple Pay. What if, in maybe 12-18 months from now, Apple themselves came out with an NFC-based POS terminal? There are not many manufacturers in the world that could make it cheaper than Apple, and hell, you could practically roll it right into an iPad mini or iPodTouch right now -- it already has a screen, just add NFC reader and perhaps some kind of secure enclave for the merchant end of things. I'm leaving out a lot of details right now, of course, but this is just fun brainstorming, right?
At that point can you see how easy it would be to disintermediate the entire freakin' electronic payment world?! At that point the entire transaction potentially consists of only one single organization on the inside transferring money, and they are in control of the entire data path! The transaction is truly anonymous to the merchant (as most transactions should be!), security is hugely improved because there are far fewer parties involved in each transaction (less vectors for hacking and fraud), fees can be lower making merchants and consumers happier. You might say it's completely impossible to build this kind of system, but if the system was built to use the shortest path if/when available, and a more traditional path if not (for a higher fee), it doesn't seem completely impossible. Perhaps just nearly impossible.
Of course the entire financial industry would work extremely hard to prevent this type of a monopoly from forming, and other companies like google/samsung/amazon would try to figure out how to squeeze their way into things as well. But it's exciting to think about just how far this whole Apple Pay thing could go if the planets all aligned. In this world, Apple Financial Services might be worth enough to consider dealing with all the regulatory issues.
I'm not so sure. I think everyone is still thinking too small.
I...
I like how you're thinking. This makes much business sense. They're already selling iPads as terminals with card reading cases or card reading dongles like Square. If the new iPads have NFC as well then they can have the iPhone and iPad communicate DIRECTLY without stores having to buy third party POS hardware. It'd make it easy for retailers to buy iPads as most are already familiar with the technology. I wonder if Apple has any patents for or apps built for this iPhone to iPad commerce functionality.
Actually what I see happen there is the Banks and CC companies will force merchants to upgrade their terminals or else pay higher fees due to the security risk.
The terminal upgrade is ALREADY required, and under way. The driving force behind it is the switch to chip cards. After October 2015, any merchant still using swipe cards will be liable for fraud loss - not the bank.
And these terminals will include NFC (many trade articles already confirm this).
That does NOT mean that you will be able to use ApplePay at all of them - that requires agreements, and software in the merchant system. But the terminals will be capable of supporting it - and that's the big cost.
I'm pretty such haggis exports aren't that significant.
Reported as an ethnic slur.
I was talking about the oil of course. However even without the oil Scotland's GDP is per capita about the same as the rest of the UK, with the oil ( and removing it from the rUK) it's about 4K higher per person.
I was talking about the oil of course. However even without the oil Scotland's GDP is per capita about the same as the rest of the UK, with the oil ( and removing it from the rUK) it's about 4K higher per person.
Oil price seems to slump these days, and will continue to fall as long as the world's economy is in the slough. I read an article today explaining that US domestic production, boosted by shale oil extraction, slakes now 97% of the needs. Even if Russia decided to dry up their pipelines, it wouldn’t matter much. The world is drenched in oil.
What about Scotland's water (‘uiske’ in Scottish Gaelic…)?
1) Seriously? You really should learn to be better at choosing your battles. Furthermore, I bet you never considered my ethnicity. Why do you think that is?
2) Can you prove that Scotland doesn't export haggis. It sounds gross too many but it's quite good, albeit not good for you.
We would gladly welcome Scottish haggis in France. We already have a lot of dishes (e.g. Tripes à la mode de Caen) based on offal.
I'm not sure about Icelandic marinated shark (hákarl), though.
I think it's Iceland that has some fish they salt and leave under the ground to rot for a year before eating at a festival.
(All that info could be wrong so I'll see if I can find more info.
Do you know what an ethnicity is? Do you know what a slur is? Do you know what a noun is?
He doesn't seem to know what a slur is, as he confuses it with a stereotype that is no different than saying Americans eat hamburgers and Italians eat pasta, but he did get ethnicity correct.
ethnicity |eTH?nisit?| noun (pl. ethnicities)
- the fact or state of belonging to a social group that has a common national or cultural tradition.
It's a very broad term that is most defined by the culture of a nation even though we seem to be using it more and more to define one's race without saying race.
If you define yourself as Scottish you are Scottish. My family is from Scotland and I'm 2nd generation born in the US so many Scottish traditions are still very prevalent in my family so Identity my ethnicity first as Americana and second as Scottish.
Comments
I didn't bother quoting everybody who got it wrong. Why mention 2.5%. It's 10% of 25% which TheOtherGeoff mentioned in a reply to you.
You got if right though.
He's seeing something excessive and stating that you'd have to go much much lower to reach what he would find acceptable. He got nothing wrong. We use this technique often in communication but I'm not sure if there is a name for it.
No he's using the stats from TheOtherGeoff and saying even 10% of 25% is too high. Geoff first mentioned 2.5%.
You are right about one thing. I should have used multi -quote.
I don't believe the 190 figure. Solip explained it well.
Fair enough and I agree. Just correcting the maths but not really your mistake.
Not at all my mistake. You misinterpreted.
Sure, it's a massive new profit center for them with nearly zero risk. Just wait until Apple Financial Services (aka Apple Bank) comes on the scene...
I wonder if it would pay for Apple to do that. That's a layer of regulation that Apple won't need with this. Besides, at least here in New York, there's already an Apple Bank.
I'm not so sure. I think everyone is still thinking too small.
I hesitate to even mention this possibility as I don't want to jinx it, but the ultimate holy grail would obviously be to own the process from end to end, as impossible as that sounds. Apple will (at least initially) own the front end on the customer side because they are at the center of this new world and they have the only mobile devices equipped for this. Most of the middlemen are currently still in place with the proposed system. There's no way they could have gotten cooperation from everyone otherwise, so that all makes perfect sense. Apple already has 800 million users, most of whom have CCs on file. Let's get millions of people comfortable with this system for a while, and then...
Many, if not most merchants are going to need to upgrade their POS systems, right? This has been a big part of almost all the discussions around Apple Pay. What if, in maybe 12-18 months from now, Apple themselves came out with an NFC-based POS terminal? There are not many manufacturers in the world that could make it cheaper than Apple, and hell, you could practically roll it right into an iPad mini or iPodTouch right now -- it already has a screen, just add NFC reader and perhaps some kind of secure enclave for the merchant end of things. I'm leaving out a lot of details right now, of course, but this is just fun brainstorming, right?
At that point can you see how easy it would be to disintermediate the entire freakin' electronic payment world?! At that point the entire transaction potentially consists of only one single organization on the inside transferring money, and they are in control of the entire data path! The transaction is truly anonymous to the merchant (as most transactions should be!), security is hugely improved because there are far fewer parties involved in each transaction (less vectors for hacking and fraud), fees can be lower making merchants and consumers happier. You might say it's completely impossible to build this kind of system, but if the system was built to use the shortest path if/when available, and a more traditional path if not (for a higher fee), it doesn't seem completely impossible. Perhaps just nearly impossible.
Of course the entire financial industry would work extremely hard to prevent this type of a monopoly from forming, and other companies like google/samsung/amazon would try to figure out how to squeeze their way into things as well. But it's exciting to think about just how far this whole Apple Pay thing could go if the planets all aligned. In this world, Apple Financial Services might be worth enough to consider dealing with all the regulatory issues.
That's not even close to being true.
I'm pretty sure haggis exports aren't that significant.
Actually what I see happen there is the Banks and CC companies will force merchants to upgrade their terminals or else pay higher fees due to the security risk.
The terminal upgrade is ALREADY required, and under way. The driving force behind it is the switch to chip cards. After October 2015, any merchant still using swipe cards will be liable for fraud loss - not the bank.
And these terminals will include NFC (many trade articles already confirm this).
That does NOT mean that you will be able to use ApplePay at all of them - that requires agreements, and software in the merchant system. But the terminals will be capable of supporting it - and that's the big cost.
I'm pretty such haggis exports aren't that significant.
Reported as an ethnic slur.
I was talking about the oil of course. However even without the oil Scotland's GDP is per capita about the same as the rest of the UK, with the oil ( and removing it from the rUK) it's about 4K higher per person.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-24866266
That's not even close to being true.
Which part is not "close to being true". I made three statements.
Reported as an ethnic slur.
I was talking about the oil of course. However even without the oil Scotland's GDP is per capita about the same as the rest of the UK, with the oil ( and removing it from the rUK) it's about 4K higher per person.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-24866266
Oil price seems to slump these days, and will continue to fall as long as the world's economy is in the slough. I read an article today explaining that US domestic production, boosted by shale oil extraction, slakes now 97% of the needs. Even if Russia decided to dry up their pipelines, it wouldn’t matter much. The world is drenched in oil.
What about Scotland's water (‘uiske’ in Scottish Gaelic…)?
1) Seriously? You really should learn to be better at choosing your battles. Furthermore, I bet you never considered my ethnicity. Why do you think that is?
2) Can you prove that Scotland doesn't export haggis. It sounds gross too many but it's quite good, albeit not good for you.
2) Can you prove that Scotland doesn't export haggis. It sounds gross too many but it's quite good, albeit not good for you.
We would gladly welcome Scottish haggis in France. We already have a lot of dishes (e.g. Tripes à la mode de Caen) based on offal.
I'm not sure about Icelandic marinated shark (hákarl), though.
I think it's Iceland that has some fish they salt and leave under the ground to rot for a year before eating at a festival.
(All that info could be wrong so I'll see if I can find more info.
Do you know what an ethnicity is? Do you know what a slur is? Do you know what a noun is?
He doesn't seem to know what a slur is, as he confuses it with a stereotype that is no different than saying Americans eat hamburgers and Italians eat pasta, but he did get ethnicity correct.
ethnicity |eTH?nisit?|
noun (pl. ethnicities)
- the fact or state of belonging to a social group that has a common national or cultural tradition.
It's a very broad term that is most defined by the culture of a nation even though we seem to be using it more and more to define one's race without saying race.
If you define yourself as Scottish you are Scottish. My family is from Scotland and I'm 2nd generation born in the US so many Scottish traditions are still very prevalent in my family so Identity my ethnicity first as Americana and second as Scottish.