They can choose not to accept cash for a certain duration, which I think they had done in the past but it created issues.
Maybe they should only allow one phone per person when using cash, Apple gift card or gift credit card. They could also require valid ID that matches the regular credit card. All of that seems reasonable to me for launch weekend. If each of the the line sitter scalpers could only buy one phone, it would start to not be worth their while. Sure Apple might suspect that there are scalpers but they can't prove it until after the fact.
It is sort of like BMW selling an M5 to a 20 year old rich kid. They know he is going to be in violation of the speed limit most of the time, but they still sell him the car.
I also remember that various PC media outlets began running a story about some "poor" woman who was unable to buy an iPad with cash, and I guess that she didn't have any other method of paying. Apple, probably afraid of bad publicity, relented shortly after the media began attacking them I believe. Practically anybody can get a debit card today, so I don't have any issues with the no-cash policy, and Apple should implement it again, in my opinion. It wont eliminate the problem completely, but it will certainly make things more difficult for the smugglers.
I think that the media should begin attacking Apple and running stories about the mass smuggling happening. Maybe that will cause Apple to cave, and change their policies. Apple obviously doesn't want bad press, but if that's what it'll take to get them to change, then good!
The only problem with requiring credit cards outright is that people can buy prepaid cards. I prefer people have to go through the apple store and sign in with their apple ids. Then Apple can track the unit and send the individuals names to the Chinese government for when an illegal import is done. Then China can go after those responsible.
Requiring one per cash transaction not tied to a phone account in the country where the sale is being made is that people can get back in line again and again. I would rather see them make sure these phones are tied to legitimate phone accounts within the country of sale. This ensures that the phone is compatible with the networks in the country of origin.
I wonder too. Maybe the companies you list should try a business model which depends upon selling devices rather than accumulating data about individuals and see if they do any better.
Hmmm. . . China not interested in tracking individuals and accumulating information on them? Yeah, that must be the secret to Apple's success there.
FWIW DuckDuckGo, one of the darlings of on-line privacy, claims not to collect any identifiable information on those using their search engine yet China blocks them.
At the next big event, instead of the Palo Alto store, Tim Cook needs to open the New York SOHO store, mix & converse with the people in line, take selfies with them, & stand there clapping with his other employees as they all walk in. According to one post, the black marketeers were letting their friends cut in line & that people just behind them in line for days didn't get phones, or the ones they wanted were sold out. That's what the wristbands are for.
The person in line should have to register for a wristband with an Apple employee using an iPad on the sidewalk. The bands should be bar coded & easily scannable. If they leave the line & come back & is accused of "cutting in," a quick scan of the wristband would prove the truth of the matter. And, if you want to make it unfair but profitable, have them pay $100 for a "SpeedPass" wristband, so they can either be positioned ahead of all the cheapskates who have been there 2 days & didn't pony up, or just put them in a special line,just like amusement parks.
I also remember that various PC media outlets began running a story about some "poor" woman who was unable to buy an iPad with cash, and I guess that she didn't have any other method of paying. Apple, probably afraid of bad publicity, relented shortly after the media began attacking them I believe. Practically anybody can get a debit card today, so I don't have any issues with the no-cash policy, and Apple should implement it again, in my opinion. It wont eliminate the problem completely, but it will certainly make things more difficult for the smugglers.
I think that the media should begin attacking Apple and running stories about the mass smuggling happening. Maybe that will cause Apple to cave, and change their policies. Apple obviously doesn't want bad press, but if that's what it'll take to get them to change, then good!
Mass smuggling? What are the actual numbers? What's your source? Anecdotal evidence doesn't count.
Perhaps Apple shouldn't sell phones w/o a contract for a period of time after release.
Mass smuggling? What are the actual numbers? What's your source? Anecdotal evidence doesn't count.
My source is myself and my two eyes. You can deny all you want, but this is definitely happening, and it's been happening for some years now, and it's only getting worse. There is also plenty of video evidence on youtube showing the makeup of these lines and what's taking place.
Apple knows about it. You can choose to bury your head in the sand like an ostrich and pretend that the problem doesn't exist, but it surely does.
At the next big event, instead of the Palo Alto store, Tim Cook needs to open the New York SOHO store, mix & converse with the people in line, take selfies with them, & stand there clapping with his other employees as they all walk in. According to one post, the black marketeers were letting their friends cut in line & that people just behind them in line for days didn't get phones, or the ones they wanted were sold out. That's what the wristbands are for.
Hopefully Tim Cook will bring along a Mandarin translator with him, otherwise he wont be able to communicate with many of the "Apple fans" that are in line.
As for your second comment about the black marketeers letting people cut in line, and real Apple users missing out on getting phones, that is why I will applaud when one of them gets shot and killed in the future sometime. They will deserve whatever will happen to them, when they one day cut in front of the wrong person.
Hopefully Tim Cook will bring along a Mandarin translator with him, otherwise he wont be able to communicate with many of the "Apple fans" that are in line.
As for your second comment about the black marketeers letting people cut in line, and real Apple users missing out on getting phones, that is why I will applaud when one of them gets shot and killed in the future sometime. They will deserve whatever will happen to them, when they one day cut in front of the wrong person.
Um to be fair I work with a number of Chinese people who like Apple products and are fans. No need to trash people for being Chinese and speaking Mandarin. I agree with you about your general sentiment as it relates to the illegal importing of iPhones into China situation though.
My source is myself and my two eyes. You can deny all you want, but this is definitely happening, and it's been happening for some years now, and it's only getting worse. There is also plenty of video evidence on youtube showing the makeup of these lines and what's taking place.
Apple knows about it. You can choose to bury your head in the sand like an ostrich and pretend that the problem doesn't exist, but it surely does.
So you've been to all the Apple stores in the US? Video evidence of targeting Asians? Are there any video evidence targeting other races? If not, then based on your logic only the Chinese resell iPhones. Everyone else just keeps them for their own personal use.
Um to be fair I work with a number of Chinese people who like Apple products and are fans. No need to trash people for being Chinese and speaking Mandarin. I agree with you about your general sentiment as it relates to the illegal importing of iPhones into China situation though.
I am not bashing all Chinese people, I am specifically bashing the Chinese scalpers that I have seen.
As a matter of fact, and I believe that I wrote about this in an old thread a few years ago about the iPad 2 launch when I was waiting in line, I was standing in line with a Chinese-American guy next to me, and he was an actual Apple fan, and we got to talking. He wasn't elderly and he spoke perfect English. He was just a typical Apple fan that was waiting in line just like me to get a new iPad 2. He was also the one who was translating for me what the scalpers were talking about. He obviously didn't care for them either.
I have no problems with any Chinese people who are actual, real, genuine Apple fans.
So you've been to all the Apple stores in the US? Video evidence of targeting Asians? Are there any video evidence targeting other races? If not, then based on your logic only the Chinese resell iPhones. Everyone else just keeps them for their own personal use.
I am specifically referring to NYC stores in my posts, as that is where I am. What's happening elsewhere is for others who live there to report on.
PS: I stand behind [@]Apple ][[/@]'s comments in this thread. I read nothing that was stating that all line sitters are Chinese or Asian, that this was happening at every store, or anything racist about the events that led to the SoHo store's 12 block line of mostly older, cash-paying, Chinese line sitters. I'm told Chinatown is pretty much next to this store and these individuals, as well as the individuals who are working to take advantage of a loophole in a poorly devised system; at least in the US. How these devices get out of the country and into other countries is a completely different situation in terms of legality. To reiterate, these line sitters are well within their right to earn some money so the onus is on Apple and perhaps the city to do something about it.
I hate generalizations. They tend to lead to bigotry. However, we can not ignore that even CNN and the Wall Street Journal have done stories on this phenomenon. It is not something that can be denied. I think it is a problem and I do wish that Apple could do something about it. I am not sure what they could do though. This is really only an issue because the devices where not released or available in China on launch day. I still want to know who is responsible for that and why. Was it Apple or was it the Chinese regulators? I am almost sure it is the regulators, but I can not be certain of that.
The line sitters themselves are most like poor people just looking to make a few bucks. Does that excuse the behavior? No... Does it excuse their lack of etiquette when it comes to cutting in line and slipping in their closest 1, 2, or 25 friends? Heck no... I wont stoop to more generalizations. I will just say that our idea of proper etiquette in a line / queue is based on a different set of social standards and rules. This is not necessarily something that translates to all cultures.
I am not bashing all Chinese people, I am specifically bashing the Chinese scalpers that I have seen.
As a matter of fact, and I believe that I wrote about this in an old thread a few years ago about the iPad 2 launch when I was waiting in line, I was standing in line with a Chinese-American guy next to me, and he was an actual Apple fan, and we got to talking. He wasn't elderly and he spoke perfect English. He was just a typical Apple fan that was waiting in line just like me to get a new iPad 2. He was also the one who was translating for me what the scalpers were talking about. He obviously didn't care for them either.
I have no problems with any Chinese people who are actual, real, genuine Apple fans.
Ok im sorry then. I mistook your post. I dont want it to be a race thing that clouds up the scalping issue and I jumped to conclusions too quickly.
PS: I stand behind [@]Apple ][[/@]'s comments in this thread. I read nothing that was stating that all line sitters are Chinese or Asian, that this was happening at every store, or anything racist about the events that led to the SoHo store's 12 block line of mostly older, cash-paying, Chinese line sitters. I'm told Chinatown is pretty much next to this store and these individuals, as well as the individuals who are working to take advantage of a loophole in a poorly devised system; at least in the US. How these devices get out of the country and into other countries is a completely different situation in terms of legality. To reiterate, these line sitters are well within their right to earn some money so the onus is on Apple and perhaps the city to do something about it.
Thanks for the link. Too bad for the paywall.
Again I want to see numbers. I'm not denying it occurs but to say its mainly a Chinese thing is something short of the R word. I bet there could be Fandroids buying iPhones and reselling them to make a buck.
Thanks for the link. Too bad for the paywall.
Again I want to see numbers. I'm not denying it occurs but to say its mainly a Chinese thing is something short of the R word. I bet there could be Fandroids buying iPhones and reselling them to make a buck.
1) That article had numbers in it. I wasn't hitting a paywall when I tried to access it the first time but now I am.
2) In the particular instance of the SoHo store, its 12 block line, and the documentary I appears to be mostly Chinese line sitters who are older, who don't appear to speak much English and who are paying cash. Personally, if that option is available to them to make some money I say go for it while imploring Apple (and the city) to find a solution keep that from happening. I see nothing unethical with anyone buying a hot product to resell at a profit so long as they aren't breaking the law… regardless of how that is frustrating for me as I wait for my iPhone order to be completed.
PS: I stand behind [@]Apple ][[/@]'s comments in this thread. I read nothing that was stating that all line sitters are Chinese or Asian, that this was happening at every store, or anything racist about the events that led to the SoHo store's 12 block line of mostly older, cash-paying, Chinese line sitters. I'm told Chinatown is pretty much next to this store and these individuals, as well as the individuals who are working to take advantage of a loophole in a poorly devised system; at least in the US. How these devices get out of the country and into other countries is a completely different situation in terms of legality. To reiterate, these line sitters are well within their right to earn some money so the onus is on Apple and perhaps the city to do something about it.
This doesnt just happen in Soho it happens at w14 street and 66street stores as well. This is what I have seen with my own eyes.
Comments
They can choose not to accept cash for a certain duration, which I think they had done in the past but it created issues.
Maybe they should only allow one phone per person when using cash, Apple gift card or gift credit card. They could also require valid ID that matches the regular credit card. All of that seems reasonable to me for launch weekend. If each of the the line sitter scalpers could only buy one phone, it would start to not be worth their while. Sure Apple might suspect that there are scalpers but they can't prove it until after the fact.
It is sort of like BMW selling an M5 to a 20 year old rich kid. They know he is going to be in violation of the speed limit most of the time, but they still sell him the car.
Yes, I remember that too.
I also remember that various PC media outlets began running a story about some "poor" woman who was unable to buy an iPad with cash, and I guess that she didn't have any other method of paying. Apple, probably afraid of bad publicity, relented shortly after the media began attacking them I believe. Practically anybody can get a debit card today, so I don't have any issues with the no-cash policy, and Apple should implement it again, in my opinion. It wont eliminate the problem completely, but it will certainly make things more difficult for the smugglers.
I think that the media should begin attacking Apple and running stories about the mass smuggling happening. Maybe that will cause Apple to cave, and change their policies. Apple obviously doesn't want bad press, but if that's what it'll take to get them to change, then good!
The only problem with requiring credit cards outright is that people can buy prepaid cards. I prefer people have to go through the apple store and sign in with their apple ids. Then Apple can track the unit and send the individuals names to the Chinese government for when an illegal import is done. Then China can go after those responsible.
Requiring one per cash transaction not tied to a phone account in the country where the sale is being made is that people can get back in line again and again. I would rather see them make sure these phones are tied to legitimate phone accounts within the country of sale. This ensures that the phone is compatible with the networks in the country of origin.
Currently, the iPhone 6 is selling for about $1,900, while the iPhone 6 Plus is said to be going for around $3,250 U.S.
Show of hands.
Who here still thinks Apple needs to sell a "cheap iPhone" for the China market?
Yeah. Didn't think so.
Hmmm. . . China not interested in tracking individuals and accumulating information on them? Yeah, that must be the secret to Apple's success there.
FWIW DuckDuckGo, one of the darlings of on-line privacy, claims not to collect any identifiable information on those using their search engine yet China blocks them.
At the next big event, instead of the Palo Alto store, Tim Cook needs to open the New York SOHO store, mix & converse with the people in line, take selfies with them, & stand there clapping with his other employees as they all walk in. According to one post, the black marketeers were letting their friends cut in line & that people just behind them in line for days didn't get phones, or the ones they wanted were sold out. That's what the wristbands are for.
The person in line should have to register for a wristband with an Apple employee using an iPad on the sidewalk. The bands should be bar coded & easily scannable. If they leave the line & come back & is accused of "cutting in," a quick scan of the wristband would prove the truth of the matter. And, if you want to make it unfair but profitable, have them pay $100 for a "SpeedPass" wristband, so they can either be positioned ahead of all the cheapskates who have been there 2 days & didn't pony up, or just put them in a special line,just like amusement parks.
I'm not on Twitter, but perhaps some entity like the show @Midnight could start a thread like:
"Things I smuggled out of China in a Twinkies Box"...Ho-Ho's boxes don't count.
(and no, 'Little Debbie' is not acceptable.)
Mass smuggling? What are the actual numbers? What's your source? Anecdotal evidence doesn't count.
Perhaps Apple shouldn't sell phones w/o a contract for a period of time after release.
Mass smuggling? What are the actual numbers? What's your source? Anecdotal evidence doesn't count.
My source is myself and my two eyes. You can deny all you want, but this is definitely happening, and it's been happening for some years now, and it's only getting worse. There is also plenty of video evidence on youtube showing the makeup of these lines and what's taking place.
Apple knows about it. You can choose to bury your head in the sand like an ostrich and pretend that the problem doesn't exist, but it surely does.
At the next big event, instead of the Palo Alto store, Tim Cook needs to open the New York SOHO store, mix & converse with the people in line, take selfies with them, & stand there clapping with his other employees as they all walk in. According to one post, the black marketeers were letting their friends cut in line & that people just behind them in line for days didn't get phones, or the ones they wanted were sold out. That's what the wristbands are for.
Hopefully Tim Cook will bring along a Mandarin translator with him, otherwise he wont be able to communicate with many of the "Apple fans" that are in line.
As for your second comment about the black marketeers letting people cut in line, and real Apple users missing out on getting phones, that is why I will applaud when one of them gets shot and killed in the future sometime. They will deserve whatever will happen to them, when they one day cut in front of the wrong person.
Hopefully Tim Cook will bring along a Mandarin translator with him, otherwise he wont be able to communicate with many of the "Apple fans" that are in line.
As for your second comment about the black marketeers letting people cut in line, and real Apple users missing out on getting phones, that is why I will applaud when one of them gets shot and killed in the future sometime. They will deserve whatever will happen to them, when they one day cut in front of the wrong person.
Um to be fair I work with a number of Chinese people who like Apple products and are fans. No need to trash people for being Chinese and speaking Mandarin. I agree with you about your general sentiment as it relates to the illegal importing of iPhones into China situation though.
So you've been to all the Apple stores in the US? Video evidence of targeting Asians? Are there any video evidence targeting other races? If not, then based on your logic only the Chinese resell iPhones. Everyone else just keeps them for their own personal use.
Um to be fair I work with a number of Chinese people who like Apple products and are fans. No need to trash people for being Chinese and speaking Mandarin. I agree with you about your general sentiment as it relates to the illegal importing of iPhones into China situation though.
I am not bashing all Chinese people, I am specifically bashing the Chinese scalpers that I have seen.
As a matter of fact, and I believe that I wrote about this in an old thread a few years ago about the iPad 2 launch when I was waiting in line, I was standing in line with a Chinese-American guy next to me, and he was an actual Apple fan, and we got to talking. He wasn't elderly and he spoke perfect English. He was just a typical Apple fan that was waiting in line just like me to get a new iPad 2. He was also the one who was translating for me what the scalpers were talking about. He obviously didn't care for them either.
I have no problems with any Chinese people who are actual, real, genuine Apple fans.
So you've been to all the Apple stores in the US? Video evidence of targeting Asians? Are there any video evidence targeting other races? If not, then based on your logic only the Chinese resell iPhones. Everyone else just keeps them for their own personal use.
I am specifically referring to NYC stores in my posts, as that is where I am. What's happening elsewhere is for others who live there to report on.
But you said there was a mass smuggling ring. I asked you for numbers.
NYC isn't representative of the entire US.
There are lots of articles on the situation. This isn't new info. Here is one such article..
PS: I stand behind [@]Apple ][[/@]'s comments in this thread. I read nothing that was stating that all line sitters are Chinese or Asian, that this was happening at every store, or anything racist about the events that led to the SoHo store's 12 block line of mostly older, cash-paying, Chinese line sitters. I'm told Chinatown is pretty much next to this store and these individuals, as well as the individuals who are working to take advantage of a loophole in a poorly devised system; at least in the US. How these devices get out of the country and into other countries is a completely different situation in terms of legality. To reiterate, these line sitters are well within their right to earn some money so the onus is on Apple and perhaps the city to do something about it.
I hate generalizations. They tend to lead to bigotry. However, we can not ignore that even CNN and the Wall Street Journal have done stories on this phenomenon. It is not something that can be denied. I think it is a problem and I do wish that Apple could do something about it. I am not sure what they could do though. This is really only an issue because the devices where not released or available in China on launch day. I still want to know who is responsible for that and why. Was it Apple or was it the Chinese regulators? I am almost sure it is the regulators, but I can not be certain of that.
The line sitters themselves are most like poor people just looking to make a few bucks. Does that excuse the behavior? No... Does it excuse their lack of etiquette when it comes to cutting in line and slipping in their closest 1, 2, or 25 friends? Heck no... I wont stoop to more generalizations. I will just say that our idea of proper etiquette in a line / queue is based on a different set of social standards and rules. This is not necessarily something that translates to all cultures.
Thanks for the link. Too bad for the paywall.
Again I want to see numbers. I'm not denying it occurs but to say its mainly a Chinese thing is something short of the R word. I bet there could be Fandroids buying iPhones and reselling them to make a buck.
1) That article had numbers in it. I wasn't hitting a paywall when I tried to access it the first time but now I am.
2) In the particular instance of the SoHo store, its 12 block line, and the documentary I appears to be mostly Chinese line sitters who are older, who don't appear to speak much English and who are paying cash. Personally, if that option is available to them to make some money I say go for it while imploring Apple (and the city) to find a solution keep that from happening. I see nothing unethical with anyone buying a hot product to resell at a profit so long as they aren't breaking the law… regardless of how that is frustrating for me as I wait for my iPhone order to be completed.