Is a recommended retail price the differentiator? There's a lot of very good smartphones with very good hardware and very good displays that aren't priced at $700+ like some smartphones. An example off the top of my head would be the Moto G.
It would almost have to be based on retail price for simplicity's sake.
But I see what you mean.
I was just trying to figure out a way to pull the crappy super-cheap phones out of the mix. Right now... ALL smartphones get counted the same.
Yes... the Moto G is a great phone at a low price. However... most "smartphones" with low prices are terrible.
I've always wondered what phones occupy the "Others" list. I'm fairly certain many (most?) are of the crappy super-cheap variety.
Yet they all get bundled into the general smartphone numbers. And I think it's a disservice.
"However, Xiaomi’s shipements were flat quarter over quarter. Neil Shaw, Counterpoint’s Research Director, wrote to me ‘Xiaomi maxed out its growth in China."
that's what I predicted in Mac Rumors and 9to5Mac. When you're at the bottom, the market is fixed and you cannot grow but to compete with other low-end devices to take market shares from them. In China, the low end market is saturated with no room to grow. When people want a smartphone, they start with a cheap one like Xiaomi and some android junks, but once they can afford a premium one, they'll drop those. There's no loyalty for cheap devices. The ultimate goal for these people are iPhone and they'll strive for it and they'll repeat the buy as long as iPhone shall live.
Why do I know all these? I've been there in those countries in Asia and people love nothing more than iPhone, just like other luxury goods like Louis Vuitton, Chanel handbags and such. They're willing to spend 1/2 year salary on an iPhone.
Google execs must be secretly wishing they never launched Android. A strong partnership with Apple would be much more profitable.
Why? Google makes or like a bandit no matter who makes there phone. If they make a profit or not, it doesn't matter, I'd they fail, one-to-one else will step in to take there place. Google is still serving up ad's and getting people into Google services.
Which is the problem with using Android. Once you sell your phone, you're for the most part done with. Samsung has tried to offer its own services to make money after the sale and so far that's failed. While art the same time Google is forcing everyone to put Google out front and center even more then ever before. Samsung is pretty screwed. They so much pushed Android sales when they should had pushed Tizen 4 years ago and not gotten involved with Android. See to good to be true. Seemed like a great deal, let Google pay all the costs developing the OS and save a bundle of money. How's that working or now?. Still great for Google, not so much for everyone else. This other company from China that's acc ever bigger copier then Samsung, will be getting there butts sued big-time once they try selling in Europe or the US and other markets. If they are being subsidised by China, what county would even let them sell their products? I hope Android takes a nose dive. I don't want there to be only Apple though, this is a chance for BlackBerry and Windows to make a comeback. Competition is a good thing.
I know a few friends in Asia and they don't know anything about smartphone usage. All they do is "talk" and "text", maybe some Video calls. That's all. They're using iPhone 5 and now they ask me to buy iPhone 6 and 6+ for them. Go ahead and analyze it. For most in Asia, iPhone is not about usability, but status symbol to differentiate the rich (fake to be rich) from the poor.
I still remember when I traveled to Vietnam in 2004 with Moto Rarz V3, many girls approached me just because of the damn phone (to begin with).
explain. I don't understand what you are trying to say.
You are claiming the arrival of the iPhone 6 somehow caused Samsung's profits in the past quarter to suddenly tank, even though there was no iPhone 6 for the majority of the period.
The real -- and fitting -- insult to Samsung will be it'll ultimately be killed off by a third-rate, bottom-feeding copyist like Xiaomi. It'll then be a matter of time before the pointlessness of it all sinks in and Google gives up on Android (Rubin's departure will speed this up). Soon thereafter, with little or no software support available, the bottom-feeders will be gone too.
It'll all take a few years to play out, but that's where we're headed.
(Add: Looks like SS posted something similar before I did!)
I don't believe that Google will give up on Android anytime soon. I'm talking a decade, at minimum, not just a few years.
I believe the MacBook Air 11" model has a fairly large margin as well, almost 50% now, which is partially why I kind of resent the Air for not having at least a 1080p screen, especially when ChromeBooks are now shipping with them. The IPad Air 2 base model costs only 250 dollars to make which is also interesting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismY
The MBAs will go Retina when the technology is available at a given price point for a given performance level with a given battery life. Anything that doesn't measure up won't work, so going for 1080p, just because, isn't going to happen. At this point I don't expect the MBA to get the needed overhaul until Broadwell, and perhaps some other major advancements in power efficiency in other components, like battery and/or display panel types.
I'm with Relic on this one - my wife has a recent 11" air and a surface pro 3 for work (PC required for some programs). The 11" air screen is a POS - a crappy TN display with too high of a pixel density - I can't even use it without getting a headache and loved her previous 13" air first gen TFT screen. In contract the surface pro 3 screen is amazing (and touch and pen as well) - and you can set the system fonts to whatever size you want - but I really dislike windows and avoid it as much as I can. There should be a mac air "pro" for those who want the best and will pay the extra $100 screen upgrade cost. There is nothing limiting the tech if a 1.76 lb surface pro can do it so can an air - it's just Apple being lazy because they own the ultrabook market and don't feel enough competitive pressure. An apple please finally get rid of the ridiculously large bezel on the air - you could almost get a 13" screen in the 11" form factor! - Make it so Jonny!
I believe the MacBook Air 11" model has a fairly large margin as well […] which is partially why I kind of resent the Air for not having at least a 1080p screen.
The 11" air screen is a POS […] display with too high of a pixel density - I can't even use it without getting a headache and loved her previous 13" air…
Then why are you with Relic in wanting the resolution to move from 1366 × 768 (135 PPI) to 1920 × 1080 (190 PPI)? That will just make it worse for you, not better.
The 11.6" 16:9 display is a kludge, IMO, and the 13" 16:10 is now too close to the 13" MBP that has now removed the ODD, HDD and become much thinner. For those reasons I see the current MBA sizes being moved to 12" 16:10 LPS and Retina so that the relative PPI for the screen elements are between the pre-13" MBP and the current 13" MBA.
I've always felt that iPhone and Android would end up like Mac and PC. Hard as hell to make money selling PCs, but there are many more of them out there.
Eventually all electronics are commoditized. We don't know when it will happen for phones or who the survivors will be, but it will happen. It sure isn't going to happen this year. I like the iPhone 6 way better than the iPhone 5s. I'll be buying new iPhones until all my family members have something as good as iPhone 6.
You are claiming the arrival of the iPhone 6 somehow caused Samsung's profits in the past quarter to suddenly tank, even though there was no iPhone 6 for the majority of the period.
People held up their purchase of larger screen phone to wait for iPhone 6/6+ a few months before the iPhone's released, not until iPhone is available. Got it?
At least Japanese companies have a measure of pride and honor.
Chinese/Korean companies will lie, steal, cheat, to maximize profits.
I wish the Vietnamese one day will enter this war. I bet that they will destroy the Korean/Chinese products. They're ruthless...they use Chinese tactic at another level...like copying all...100% like...their campaigns are crazy. Look at the Chinese products in Vietnam, can't sell sh.tt, but in America, we still use Chinese products. Why a poor ass country can withstand the Chinese products? Simple, bad mouth of Chinese goods with fake fatal-product-effect campaigns, boycotts and sh.t. Get to the point, the Chinese companies had to rebadge their products in Vietnamese and labeled Made in Vietnam to fool people. I remember the case of Scooter which originally was made by Japanese company, Honda and it was like hotcake. The Chinese jumped in with China made "Honda" scooter look 80% like Honda but 1/2 price. Then the Vietnam made scooter looks exactly like China made one but only 1/3 of the price...lol.
People held up their purchase of larger screen phone to wait for iPhone 6/6+ a few months before the iPhone's released, not until iPhone is available. Got it?
Show me some hard numbers that show how many android users switched to IOS because of 6/6+ and maybe you have a point. Otherwise it's just wishful thinking.
iPhone unit sales are forecasted to be up 30% for 2014.
Up 35,000,000 units to 45,000,000 units
Samsung Galaxy units are forecasted to be down 30,000,000 units for 2014.
Again profits tell the whole story for high end sales.
Samsung profits down 75% (may be down even more in Dec quarter)
Apple profits up 25%
Those numbers don't work out for me. 35 to 45 is an increase of just under 29% but the profits for the iPhone will only be up 25% when everything points to the iPhone having a higher APR due to the increase from 16GB to 48GB from the first to second tier models, as well as the popular iPhone 6 Plus starting at $100 more than the iPhone 6. Unless we assume that Apple is making a lower profit despite increased revenue sales I would expect the profits for this segment to increase at a higher percentage than the unite sales.
iPhone unit sales are forecasted to be up 30% for 2014.
Up 35,000,000 units to 45,000,000 units
Samsung Galaxy units are forecasted to be down 30,000,000 units for 2014.
Again profits tell the whole story for high end sales.
Samsung profits down 75% (may be down even more in Dec quarter)
Apple profits up 25%
Nice try but not an answer. I asked to see numbers to show that the iPhone 6/plus caused a large number of defections from Android.
Samsung might be in trouble but it only has 24% of the smartphone market vs almost 65% controlled by others (not including apple)
A lot of samsung's slack will be taken up by the others.
In Q3 Android phone shipments were about 268 Million worldwide versus 40 Million for IOS. If Apple ships over 100M units in the next quarter then maybe the argument could be made. I don't see that happening.
Still not in the thousands but not just a measly nine either.
2. Samsung will not tank, it is a huge company that pretty much is supported by south Korea. They will get hurt, but won't go down. Only an idiot would think that.
3.I wouldn't call apple innocent. They copied and stole xerox and microsoft ideas back in the day. If you know anything about apple history you would know that. Apple copies android, android copies apple. No matter your opinion, they do both copy each other. Its a fact. Its this competition that drives innovation on both fronts.
4.taking out android?? Android has over 1billion unique devices activated worldwide. Don't be a moron
I love the iPhone, otherwise I wouldn't be reading articles here, but the lies from both groups of fanboys are getting out of hand
Common sense, its your friend. Or is that too much for some of you?
I accidentally came across this thread while googling and found this a flawed arguement.
Currently, Samsung's spending billions on two fronts simultanouly, on the Tizen OS and on Samsung 5G standard, which was already adopted by EU and will also be adopted in the US based on the FCC's LOI of doing 5G service in a microwave spectrum higher than 24 Ghz, because only Samsung's 5G standard operates at above 24 Ghz while competing Chinese and Japanese standards operate in Sub 5 Ghz LTE bands. Recall that Samsung gave itself a 2018 deadline for the first operational 5G network to be demonstrated to the international press during the Pyongchang Olympics, so Samsung's sparing no expense to ensure that it wins the 5G battle against the competing Chinese national 5G standard and this heavy spending on research is showing up on Samsung's balance sheet.
Secondly, it was Xiaomi that Samsung was more worried about, because Samsung just unveiled its "Xiaomi" killer phone line up in China, the Galaxy A3, A5, and A7 that cost 50% more than Xiaomi phones while not doing to counter the iPhone 6 series immediately.
Thirdly, many suspect that the Samsung management is delivering a poor profit on purpose because Samsung's accelerating a management transition from the current chairman who survived a heart attack but is incapacitated as the result to his son via a series of stock transfers. Lower stock prices reduce this stock gift tax burdens, and this is why Samsung management may deliberately engineering a lower profit in order to depress stock prices.
Apple has little to do with Samsung's profitability.
Comments
Its quite obvious that apple annihilated Samsung higher end premium segment.
But it is quite possible that xiaomi also eaten part of Samsungs lunch.
Its very well possible that many might have got Mi 3 or Mi 4 instead of getting Samsung premium smartphones.
In my view both apple and xiaomi played their part in killing Samsung premium segment with apple taking the huge share.
It would almost have to be based on retail price for simplicity's sake.
But I see what you mean.
I was just trying to figure out a way to pull the crappy super-cheap phones out of the mix. Right now... ALL smartphones get counted the same.
Yes... the Moto G is a great phone at a low price. However... most "smartphones" with low prices are terrible.
I've always wondered what phones occupy the "Others" list. I'm fairly certain many (most?) are of the crappy super-cheap variety.
Yet they all get bundled into the general smartphone numbers. And I think it's a disservice.
Xiaomi may have peaked already.
"However, Xiaomi’s shipements were flat quarter over quarter. Neil Shaw, Counterpoint’s Research Director, wrote to me ‘Xiaomi maxed out its growth in China."
http://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2014/10/31/apple-is-starting-to-claw-back-some-iphone-market-share/?partner=yahootix
well. That was fast. LOL.
that's what I predicted in Mac Rumors and 9to5Mac. When you're at the bottom, the market is fixed and you cannot grow but to compete with other low-end devices to take market shares from them. In China, the low end market is saturated with no room to grow. When people want a smartphone, they start with a cheap one like Xiaomi and some android junks, but once they can afford a premium one, they'll drop those. There's no loyalty for cheap devices. The ultimate goal for these people are iPhone and they'll strive for it and they'll repeat the buy as long as iPhone shall live.
Why do I know all these? I've been there in those countries in Asia and people love nothing more than iPhone, just like other luxury goods like Louis Vuitton, Chanel handbags and such. They're willing to spend 1/2 year salary on an iPhone.
Congratulations!
Why? Google makes or like a bandit no matter who makes there phone. If they make a profit or not, it doesn't matter, I'd they fail, one-to-one else will step in to take there place. Google is still serving up ad's and getting people into Google services.
Which is the problem with using Android. Once you sell your phone, you're for the most part done with. Samsung has tried to offer its own services to make money after the sale and so far that's failed. While art the same time Google is forcing everyone to put Google out front and center even more then ever before. Samsung is pretty screwed. They so much pushed Android sales when they should had pushed Tizen 4 years ago and not gotten involved with Android. See to good to be true. Seemed like a great deal, let Google pay all the costs developing the OS and save a bundle of money. How's that working or now?. Still great for Google, not so much for everyone else. This other company from China that's acc ever bigger copier then Samsung, will be getting there butts sued big-time once they try selling in Europe or the US and other markets. If they are being subsidised by China, what county would even let them sell their products? I hope Android takes a nose dive. I don't want there to be only Apple though, this is a chance for BlackBerry and Windows to make a comeback. Competition is a good thing.
To illustrate something here:
I know a few friends in Asia and they don't know anything about smartphone usage. All they do is "talk" and "text", maybe some Video calls. That's all. They're using iPhone 5 and now they ask me to buy iPhone 6 and 6+ for them. Go ahead and analyze it. For most in Asia, iPhone is not about usability, but status symbol to differentiate the rich (fake to be rich) from the poor.
I still remember when I traveled to Vietnam in 2004 with Moto Rarz V3, many girls approached me just because of the damn phone (to begin with).
explain. I don't understand what you are trying to say.
You are claiming the arrival of the iPhone 6 somehow caused Samsung's profits in the past quarter to suddenly tank, even though there was no iPhone 6 for the majority of the period.
The real -- and fitting -- insult to Samsung will be it'll ultimately be killed off by a third-rate, bottom-feeding copyist like Xiaomi. It'll then be a matter of time before the pointlessness of it all sinks in and Google gives up on Android (Rubin's departure will speed this up). Soon thereafter, with little or no software support available, the bottom-feeders will be gone too.
It'll all take a few years to play out, but that's where we're headed.
(Add: Looks like SS posted something similar before I did!)
I don't believe that Google will give up on Android anytime soon. I'm talking a decade, at minimum, not just a few years.
-Lackluster Fire Phone profit and sales.
-Samsung profit down %73.9.
-Sonys mobile division's profits tank. 1B lost.
-Andy Rubin abandons android.
I believe the MacBook Air 11" model has a fairly large margin as well, almost 50% now, which is partially why I kind of resent the Air for not having at least a 1080p screen, especially when ChromeBooks are now shipping with them. The IPad Air 2 base model costs only 250 dollars to make which is also interesting.
The MBAs will go Retina when the technology is available at a given price point for a given performance level with a given battery life. Anything that doesn't measure up won't work, so going for 1080p, just because, isn't going to happen. At this point I don't expect the MBA to get the needed overhaul until Broadwell, and perhaps some other major advancements in power efficiency in other components, like battery and/or display panel types.
I'm with Relic on this one - my wife has a recent 11" air and a surface pro 3 for work (PC required for some programs). The 11" air screen is a POS - a crappy TN display with too high of a pixel density - I can't even use it without getting a headache and loved her previous 13" air first gen TFT screen. In contract the surface pro 3 screen is amazing (and touch and pen as well) - and you can set the system fonts to whatever size you want - but I really dislike windows and avoid it as much as I can. There should be a mac air "pro" for those who want the best and will pay the extra $100 screen upgrade cost. There is nothing limiting the tech if a 1.76 lb surface pro can do it so can an air - it's just Apple being lazy because they own the ultrabook market and don't feel enough competitive pressure. An apple please finally get rid of the ridiculously large bezel on the air - you could almost get a 13" screen in the 11" form factor! - Make it so Jonny!
Then why are you with Relic in wanting the resolution to move from 1366 × 768 (135 PPI) to 1920 × 1080 (190 PPI)? That will just make it worse for you, not better.
The 11.6" 16:9 display is a kludge, IMO, and the 13" 16:10 is now too close to the 13" MBP that has now removed the ODD, HDD and become much thinner. For those reasons I see the current MBA sizes being moved to 12" 16:10 LPS and Retina so that the relative PPI for the screen elements are between the pre-13" MBP and the current 13" MBA.
You are claiming the arrival of the iPhone 6 somehow caused Samsung's profits in the past quarter to suddenly tank, even though there was no iPhone 6 for the majority of the period.
People held up their purchase of larger screen phone to wait for iPhone 6/6+ a few months before the iPhone's released, not until iPhone is available. Got it?
I agree with this.
At least Japanese companies have a measure of pride and honor.
Chinese/Korean companies will lie, steal, cheat, to maximize profits.
I wish the Vietnamese one day will enter this war. I bet that they will destroy the Korean/Chinese products. They're ruthless...they use Chinese tactic at another level...like copying all...100% like...their campaigns are crazy. Look at the Chinese products in Vietnam, can't sell sh.tt, but in America, we still use Chinese products. Why a poor ass country can withstand the Chinese products? Simple, bad mouth of Chinese goods with fake fatal-product-effect campaigns, boycotts and sh.t. Get to the point, the Chinese companies had to rebadge their products in Vietnamese and labeled Made in Vietnam to fool people. I remember the case of Scooter which originally was made by Japanese company, Honda and it was like hotcake. The Chinese jumped in with China made "Honda" scooter look 80% like Honda but 1/2 price. Then the Vietnam made scooter looks exactly like China made one but only 1/3 of the price...lol.
People held up their purchase of larger screen phone to wait for iPhone 6/6+ a few months before the iPhone's released, not until iPhone is available. Got it?
Show me some hard numbers that show how many android users switched to IOS because of 6/6+ and maybe you have a point. Otherwise it's just wishful thinking.
Those numbers don't work out for me. 35 to 45 is an increase of just under 29% but the profits for the iPhone will only be up 25% when everything points to the iPhone having a higher APR due to the increase from 16GB to 48GB from the first to second tier models, as well as the popular iPhone 6 Plus starting at $100 more than the iPhone 6. Unless we assume that Apple is making a lower profit despite increased revenue sales I would expect the profits for this segment to increase at a higher percentage than the unite sales.
iPhone unit sales are forecasted to be up 30% for 2014.
Up 35,000,000 units to 45,000,000 units
Samsung Galaxy units are forecasted to be down 30,000,000 units for 2014.
Again profits tell the whole story for high end sales.
Samsung profits down 75% (may be down even more in Dec quarter)
Apple profits up 25%
Nice try but not an answer. I asked to see numbers to show that the iPhone 6/plus caused a large number of defections from Android.
Samsung might be in trouble but it only has 24% of the smartphone market vs almost 65% controlled by others (not including apple)
A lot of samsung's slack will be taken up by the others.
In Q3 Android phone shipments were about 268 Million worldwide versus 40 Million for IOS. If Apple ships over 100M units in the next quarter then maybe the argument could be made. I don't see that happening.
1. Bendgate has more than 9 documented cases:
http://www.oneofthenine.com
Still not in the thousands but not just a measly nine either.
2. Samsung will not tank, it is a huge company that pretty much is supported by south Korea. They will get hurt, but won't go down. Only an idiot would think that.
3.I wouldn't call apple innocent. They copied and stole xerox and microsoft ideas back in the day. If you know anything about apple history you would know that. Apple copies android, android copies apple. No matter your opinion, they do both copy each other. Its a fact. Its this competition that drives innovation on both fronts.
4.taking out android?? Android has over 1billion unique devices activated worldwide. Don't be a moron
I love the iPhone, otherwise I wouldn't be reading articles here, but the lies from both groups of fanboys are getting out of hand
Common sense, its your friend. Or is that too much for some of you?
I accidentally came across this thread while googling and found this a flawed arguement.
Currently, Samsung's spending billions on two fronts simultanouly, on the Tizen OS and on Samsung 5G standard, which was already adopted by EU and will also be adopted in the US based on the FCC's LOI of doing 5G service in a microwave spectrum higher than 24 Ghz, because only Samsung's 5G standard operates at above 24 Ghz while competing Chinese and Japanese standards operate in Sub 5 Ghz LTE bands. Recall that Samsung gave itself a 2018 deadline for the first operational 5G network to be demonstrated to the international press during the Pyongchang Olympics, so Samsung's sparing no expense to ensure that it wins the 5G battle against the competing Chinese national 5G standard and this heavy spending on research is showing up on Samsung's balance sheet.
Secondly, it was Xiaomi that Samsung was more worried about, because Samsung just unveiled its "Xiaomi" killer phone line up in China, the Galaxy A3, A5, and A7 that cost 50% more than Xiaomi phones while not doing to counter the iPhone 6 series immediately.
Thirdly, many suspect that the Samsung management is delivering a poor profit on purpose because Samsung's accelerating a management transition from the current chairman who survived a heart attack but is incapacitated as the result to his son via a series of stock transfers. Lower stock prices reduce this stock gift tax burdens, and this is why Samsung management may deliberately engineering a lower profit in order to depress stock prices.
Apple has little to do with Samsung's profitability.