The people purchasing these items have no idea of the problems. Some on here blame them, that is NOT fair and in no way is the buyer's fault. Android should control this but they don't that is the simple end to it! W.
A piece of computer software should control this? I'd love to hear more about this idea of yours.
A piece of computer software should control this? I'd love to hear more about this idea of yours.
Google created The Wild Wild West on personal devices right when we were finally getting into a secure and modern system that allowed anyone to join in without needing a CS degree. This is Google's design for Android and therefor their fault.
Google created The Wild Wild West on personal devices right when we were finally getting into a secure and modern system that allowed anyone to join in without needing a CS degree. This is Google's design for Android and therefor their fault.
Thank you for answering on Walt's behalf. As you now speak for Walt, why doesn't Walt feel that the makers of the devices in question should be to blame?
This is not just cheap fit and finish, it's sophisticated, predatory fraud. If you bought a $5 night light or smoke detector at a major retailer, you wouldn't expect it to spy on your family. Stop making excuses for terrible products and irresponsible retailers just because Google is tangentially involved.
A false representation of a matter of fact—whether by words or by conduct, by false or misleading allegations, or by concealment of what should have been disclosed—that deceives and is intended to deceive another so that the individual will act upon it to her or his legal injury.
Explain to the class please Daniel how this is in any way fraud on the part of the retailers or are you claiming the retailers knew of this problem and intentionally deceived the public by stating there were no problems with the tablets in question?
Customers buying CE at a major retailer of CE in the US should expect malware on their device?:no:
For many years now, people like Mossberg have been railing against the third-party bloatware and company installed junk that comes with purchases of Windows and Android devices. It was surely a matter of time before some fell into the category of malware.
Somehow, people think that free really means free. You don't seem to get the larger point that's being made, that 'free' means all kinds of junk, including things that are bad for you, that come with it.
Thank you for answering on Walt's behalf. As you now speak for Walt, why doesn't Walt feel that the makers of the devices in question should be to blame?
Maybe you can explain the process of how one would go after a small, likely government-sponsored company in China?
While I don't think the blame solely rests with the retailer, there needs to be some regulation in place which ensures that devices which have the potential to illegally harvest information from buyers without their consent never make it onto store shelves. And the penalty for violating the regulation would apply to anyone who had a hand in bringing it into the country (in addition to the retailer).
That forces companies which want to profit from the sale of such devices to do their due diligence on them.
It's the same thing with the fake, counterfeit Apple chargers.
If it's "the same" then anyone making a CE purchase from Best Buy, WalMart, Target, Fry's, or any other big retailer in the US should also not expect to get malware pre-loaded on their devices just as those stores can't sell illegal, counterfeit, Chinese knockoffs of Apple products. Thank you for finally seeing the light.
I am sure that Apple ][ can weigh in for himself, but I have no clue what you're saying here. How is 'malware' loaded on a product -- which could just be corporate bloatware as far as the retailer knew, but something that was allowed in because it subsidized the price of the product -- the same as selling a counterfeit product!?
(Now that they have been made aware of this, it would be interesting to see what they do with the information and whether they change anything. Assuming, of course, that anybody, including the buyer, cares....)
“Here son. It may have an infection or two but boy was it cheap."
"That's okay, Dad. You saved a ton of money and I already know what to expect from this type of device. I read all about them on AppleInsider. I'm only going to use it for watching movies and listen to music videos anyway. If I go on Facebook... well, they've already got all of my info."
Shame on Android users for being cheap bums and demanding cheap, useless junk. And shame on Android users for actually buying said junk, contributing to massive amounts of waste and pollution, since most of the junk products will probably soon end up in a landfill somewhere. Shame on Android users for dragging the whole tech industry down into the gutter.
The retailers are merely in it to sell products and to make a buck. That there is demand for such garbage says more about the people who purchase such junk, rather than those who sell such junk.
And I disagree... partially. I still say shame on the retailers. Yes, these buyers of these tablets may be cheap, but that is probably because they are poorer and unsophisticated. They don't have the means and the time to read websites like these. However, a basic tablet that allows them to surf and provides some entertainment is something they most of them never thought they could afford. At $50, how can they refuse to buy one for their kids this Christmas? The retailers should make sure that the products they sell do not have basic defects that easily could have been fixed. Would they sell appliances or TV's with safety issues? Would we say "buyer beware" in this case? These Android tablet have security issues that would be especially harmful for those with lower incomes, and the retailers are guilty of exposing them to these dangers. Would it be so difficult to require updated software?
It reminds me how fortunate I am to be able to afford Apple products and benefit from their advantages.
How is 'malware' loaded on a product -- which could just be corporate bloatware as far as the retailer knew, but something that was allowed in because it subsidized the price of the product -- the same as selling a counterfeit product!?
We're not talking about bloatware. We're not talking about trialware. We're talking about SW that's intended to cause damage in some way. Having a shitty program that gets booted up and requires the user to uninstall it, while annoying on a brand new device, is not designed to destroy code, steal your personal data, or spy on what you're doing. These are vastly different pejorative categories of software.
Remember when Apple used to include a preinstalled version of MS Office (and other apps) with each new Mac sold and on the Recovery CDs? That was bloatware and that was trialware, but that wasn't malware.
How can someone who does not even know what Malware is, expect it? A person would be suspicious of buying a device from a guy in a trench coat in an alley. Why would they worry about something being sold at Best Buy?
A person buys something that "does what an iPad does" at 1/4th the price. He should be intelligent enough to know that it may not last too long. But how can he be expected to know that his privacy is at stake?
The reality is that these tablets are exactly what Google's Android created. They make up the vast majority of the tablet "shipments" that IDC has been advertising incessantly as "Android domination."
Exactly.
And every time I hear about Android "dominating" my next question is always:
"Then what?"
We've all seen the headlines on this site and others. Every three months we get the market share reports. And each time Android is "dominating"
But there doesn't seem to be a compelling story after that headline.
Yes... there are tons of cheap Android tablets that, when added all together, represent a huge percentage of quarterly tablet market share. They estimate all the tablet shipments and figure out how many of them are running Android. That part is simple.
The part I'm having trouble understanding is what Android is doing with all that market share.
What are the results after that remarkable headline? Do tens of millions of garbage tablets really have an effect on anything?
Please spare a thought for those of us who operate in both ecosystems (Android and iOS) when you spurt out insults.
First of all, the "average" Android user do not use both Android and iOS. And second, since 2/3 (maybe more) of the Android devices sold are cheap devices, a person using one of the better (and more expensive) Android devices would not be considered an average Android user, but an above average Android user . So chances are, you shouldn't feel insulted.
The saying, "You get what you pay for", has been around for as long as products have been available for sale. Cheap shit products have also been around for as long as products have been available for sale.
If people are willing to buy cheap crap to save a few bucks then that's up to them. It's not like they haven't been warned. jmho
Yeah, but back in the old days, when you bought a cheap product, it usually meant you were only out of the money you paid for the product, if the product no longer function after a short period of time. And many people were willing to take that chance, even if they were forewarned. Now of days, buying a cheap product may mean you might lose your life savings and have your identity (or other personal data) stolen. I don't think many people would take that chance if they are properly warned. It's one thing to warn a buyer that the meat in the $2.00 hamburger may have more fat in it than the meat in a $12.00 burger. (and that may be expected even if the buyer wasn't forewarned). But it's another thing to warn that the meat in the $2.00 burger may have came from cows that died of Mad Cow disease. I could see people still buying the $2.00 burger if it were the former case but not the latter. Unless they weren't properly warned at all.
... when I think of Android, a combination of these words immediately enter my mind: welfare, unemployed, cheapskates, third world, mud huts, polluters, bottom feeders, not tech savvy, self entitled and ignorant.
When I think about this discrimination comes to mind.
For everyone saying that it's the buyers fault for buying cheap products, some even comparing it to someone buying from a store versus some one buying it from some one off the street. Seriously, those are weak arguments.
I mean I was just at the apple store, and I could easily buy two desktop computers that come without a monitor. One is considered one of the most expensive computers you can find at that store, and the other is the cheapest computer you can find at the store, and the price difference is substantial. Do you think the mac mini is a utterly crap product that should have malware and security holes preinstalled on them?
You can go to a nice restaurant and buy an expensive steak dinner. You can also usually find another steak dinner for considerable cheaper. Are you expecting to get sick off the cheaper cut, smaller steak then the restaurant best?
You can go into any appliance store and get a perfect fine range, stove, washer, dryer, refrigerator and in those same stores you can find other models that are vastly more expensive. But you still expect the cheaper models to still function properly. You just expect one smaller size , less functionality, and likely (though not always) shorter life span.
Heck whats the difference in cost between Apple's 5K iMac, and the cheaper standard display iMac of the same size? Should the iMac with the standard screen not work with iTunes, not work with the app store, have malware on it, and open security holes, and just be excepted as a perfectly sound product for Apple to sell?
Sure if all of these products fell off a truck, or were sold in dark allies, or even if most were sold at stores that didn't ever selll any merchandise of solid quality, you could certainly understand that the buyer is taking a significant risk. But several of these stories sell high quality merchandise, you aren't expecting devices that actually are sold with the ability to actually harm you.
Comments
The people purchasing these items have no idea of the problems. Some on here blame them, that is NOT fair and in no way is the buyer's fault. Android should control this but they don't that is the simple end to it! W.
A piece of computer software should control this? I'd love to hear more about this idea of yours.
Google created The Wild Wild West on personal devices right when we were finally getting into a secure and modern system that allowed anyone to join in without needing a CS degree. This is Google's design for Android and therefor their fault.
Google created The Wild Wild West on personal devices right when we were finally getting into a secure and modern system that allowed anyone to join in without needing a CS degree. This is Google's design for Android and therefor their fault.
Thank you for answering on Walt's behalf. As you now speak for Walt, why doesn't Walt feel that the makers of the devices in question should be to blame?
This is not just cheap fit and finish, it's sophisticated, predatory fraud. If you bought a $5 night light or smoke detector at a major retailer, you wouldn't expect it to spy on your family. Stop making excuses for terrible products and irresponsible retailers just because Google is tangentially involved.
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/fraud
A false representation of a matter of fact—whether by words or by conduct, by false or misleading allegations, or by concealment of what should have been disclosed—that deceives and is intended to deceive another so that the individual will act upon it to her or his legal injury.
Explain to the class please Daniel how this is in any way fraud on the part of the retailers or are you claiming the retailers knew of this problem and intentionally deceived the public by stating there were no problems with the tablets in question?
For many years now, people like Mossberg have been railing against the third-party bloatware and company installed junk that comes with purchases of Windows and Android devices. It was surely a matter of time before some fell into the category of malware.
Somehow, people think that free really means free. You don't seem to get the larger point that's being made, that 'free' means all kinds of junk, including things that are bad for you, that come with it.
Thank you for answering on Walt's behalf. As you now speak for Walt, why doesn't Walt feel that the makers of the devices in question should be to blame?
Maybe you can explain the process of how one would go after a small, likely government-sponsored company in China?
While I don't think the blame solely rests with the retailer, there needs to be some regulation in place which ensures that devices which have the potential to illegally harvest information from buyers without their consent never make it onto store shelves. And the penalty for violating the regulation would apply to anyone who had a hand in bringing it into the country (in addition to the retailer).
That forces companies which want to profit from the sale of such devices to do their due diligence on them.
I am sure that Apple ][ can weigh in for himself, but I have no clue what you're saying here. How is 'malware' loaded on a product -- which could just be corporate bloatware as far as the retailer knew, but something that was allowed in because it subsidized the price of the product -- the same as selling a counterfeit product!?
(Now that they have been made aware of this, it would be interesting to see what they do with the information and whether they change anything. Assuming, of course, that anybody, including the buyer, cares....)
Sort of takes the joy out of Christmas;
“Here son. It may have an infection or two but boy was it cheap."
Sort of takes the joy out of Christmas;
“Here son. It may have an infection or two but boy was it cheap."
"That's okay, Dad. You saved a ton of money and I already know what to expect from this type of device. I read all about them on AppleInsider. I'm only going to use it for watching movies and listen to music videos anyway. If I go on Facebook... well, they've already got all of my info."
I disagree.
Shame on Android users for being cheap bums and demanding cheap, useless junk. And shame on Android users for actually buying said junk, contributing to massive amounts of waste and pollution, since most of the junk products will probably soon end up in a landfill somewhere. Shame on Android users for dragging the whole tech industry down into the gutter.
The retailers are merely in it to sell products and to make a buck. That there is demand for such garbage says more about the people who purchase such junk, rather than those who sell such junk.
And I disagree... partially. I still say shame on the retailers. Yes, these buyers of these tablets may be cheap, but that is probably because they are poorer and unsophisticated. They don't have the means and the time to read websites like these. However, a basic tablet that allows them to surf and provides some entertainment is something they most of them never thought they could afford. At $50, how can they refuse to buy one for their kids this Christmas? The retailers should make sure that the products they sell do not have basic defects that easily could have been fixed. Would they sell appliances or TV's with safety issues? Would we say "buyer beware" in this case? These Android tablet have security issues that would be especially harmful for those with lower incomes, and the retailers are guilty of exposing them to these dangers. Would it be so difficult to require updated software?
It reminds me how fortunate I am to be able to afford Apple products and benefit from their advantages.
We're not talking about bloatware. We're not talking about trialware. We're talking about SW that's intended to cause damage in some way. Having a shitty program that gets booted up and requires the user to uninstall it, while annoying on a brand new device, is not designed to destroy code, steal your personal data, or spy on what you're doing. These are vastly different pejorative categories of software.
Remember when Apple used to include a preinstalled version of MS Office (and other apps) with each new Mac sold and on the Recovery CDs? That was bloatware and that was trialware, but that wasn't malware.
How can someone who does not even know what Malware is, expect it? A person would be suspicious of buying a device from a guy in a trench coat in an alley. Why would they worry about something being sold at Best Buy?
A person buys something that "does what an iPad does" at 1/4th the price. He should be intelligent enough to know that it may not last too long. But how can he be expected to know that his privacy is at stake?
I agree with @SolipsismY and @EricTheHalfBee. Cheap should not mean "malware infested".
Exactly.
And every time I hear about Android "dominating" my next question is always:
"Then what?"
We've all seen the headlines on this site and others. Every three months we get the market share reports. And each time Android is "dominating"
But there doesn't seem to be a compelling story after that headline.
Yes... there are tons of cheap Android tablets that, when added all together, represent a huge percentage of quarterly tablet market share. They estimate all the tablet shipments and figure out how many of them are running Android. That part is simple.
The part I'm having trouble understanding is what Android is doing with all that market share.
What are the results after that remarkable headline? Do tens of millions of garbage tablets really have an effect on anything?
Please spare a thought for those of us who operate in both ecosystems (Android and iOS) when you spurt out insults.
First of all, the "average" Android user do not use both Android and iOS. And second, since 2/3 (maybe more) of the Android devices sold are cheap devices, a person using one of the better (and more expensive) Android devices would not be considered an average Android user, but an above average Android user . So chances are, you shouldn't feel insulted.
I agree [with you].
The saying, "You get what you pay for", has been around for as long as products have been available for sale. Cheap shit products have also been around for as long as products have been available for sale.
If people are willing to buy cheap crap to save a few bucks then that's up to them. It's not like they haven't been warned. jmho
Yeah, but back in the old days, when you bought a cheap product, it usually meant you were only out of the money you paid for the product, if the product no longer function after a short period of time. And many people were willing to take that chance, even if they were forewarned. Now of days, buying a cheap product may mean you might lose your life savings and have your identity (or other personal data) stolen. I don't think many people would take that chance if they are properly warned. It's one thing to warn a buyer that the meat in the $2.00 hamburger may have more fat in it than the meat in a $12.00 burger. (and that may be expected even if the buyer wasn't forewarned). But it's another thing to warn that the meat in the $2.00 burger may have came from cows that died of Mad Cow disease. I could see people still buying the $2.00 burger if it were the former case but not the latter. Unless they weren't properly warned at all.
Quote:
You very nicely put what I've been trying to put into words for a long time. Nice.
People buy a *cheap* Android device because one or more of the following:
- Don't like Apple products
- Liked the attractive price (what snagged me 4 times to buy and have issues with all 4)
- Like Android over iOS (don't ask me why)
- Don't have the money for an iPad
- Think the iPad is limited due to lack of VGA ports and whatnot
- Mostly want something cheap for reading
Quote:
You forgot
-Think that a cheaply priced tablet is a good gift to give.
Don't foget
- Apple products are way over priced and thererfore, a cheap Android device is what it should cost when you don't have to pay the "Apple Tax".
... when I think of Android, a combination of these words immediately enter my mind: welfare, unemployed, cheapskates, third world, mud huts, polluters, bottom feeders, not tech savvy, self entitled and ignorant.
When I think about this discrimination comes to mind.