I disagree with your assumption that self-driving (and self-crashing) cars will be the norm in 10 years, especially in snowy conditions. The only way to make self-driving cars safe is to put them on a series of tracks forcing them to run like the cars at Disney Land years ago. Police won't ever have self-driving cars and the road infrastructure will never be such that self-driving cars will operate on anywhere near 100% of the roads anytime soon. I don't car how good companies make them look, artificial intelligence will never be able to drive multiple vehicles in a safe manner allowing the occupants to change where they want to go at a moments notice. Computers can't operate as instantaneously as the human brain (look it up). I will be driving my vehicles until my kids take the keys away. I will never get into a car running Android and will not buy a car running any of the crazy Microsoft operational and entertainment software for obvious reasons.
btw: I have two grown daughters and both have been in minor accidents and they now drive much better than before the accidents.
Isn't one of the self driving cars selling points safety? Driving conditions can be factored in, and reaction times should be much better. If a car suddenly brakes on a highway the cars a mile behind could brake within a millisecond if required. Sudden turns down side roads may not work but those sudden turns are hardly safe at any rate. I think the problem with self driving cars arises when there is an accident and the question of liability comes up. There is also the ethical conundrum - if the self driving car has to make a choice between crashing into a pedestrian on the sidewalk with a child in a stroller, or hitting a single person on a pedestrian crossing - how will it decide? The person on the crossing could be a child and the stroller could be a wheelbarrow. Or in another scenario - how will it choose to kill the passenger it carries or the person blocking the way? How will it asses the risk and if all goes wrong who is to blame?
Between the watch and the alleged car I’m chuckling at the bare-faced class warfare and class envy on display around the web and right here on AI. As an Apple customer I already know I’m a stupid lemming iSheep who loves to pay outrageously higher prices for yesterday’s hardware and software. And now if I decide to purchase the stainless ?Watch with the stainless steel link bracelet for a grand I’ll labeled as hating the poor and oppressed people of the world... in addition to being a stupid iSheep.
I think the problem with self driving cars arises when there is an accident and the question of liability comes up. There is also the ethical conundrum - if the self driving car has to make a choice between crashing into a pedestrian on the sidewalk with a child in a stroller, or hitting a single person on a pedestrian crossing - how will it decide?
This is a personal injury attorney's wet dream. There will be scam artists jumping in front of slow moving ?Cars at every corner.
I disagree with your assumption that self-driving (and self-crashing) cars will be the norm in 10 years, especially in snowy conditions. The only way to make self-driving cars safe is to put them on a series of tracks forcing them to run like the cars at Disney Land years ago...
btw: I have two grown daughters and both have been in minor accidents and they now drive much better than before the accidents.
Initial testing would happen in a controlled environment, but the most practical way for these cars to learn is real-world experience. That's what your daughters did, right? How much time did they spend driving in empty parking lots?
One wouldn't let the self-driving car make all the decisions initially, but it would analyze the road conditions and propose what to do. A human driver would still be operating the vehicle; later, back at the lab, one would analyze the accuracy of the driving computer versus what the driver actually did. As the algorithms improve, you would eventually let the car make more of the driving decisions.
This is where Google is today with their self-driving car (it's a white Lexus SUV). I frequently see it on the roads in Mountain View and surrounding towns, including the freeway. The project managers said that car is able to deal with many situations, including random dickheads pulling in front of the car and slamming on their brakes.
More interesting are unusual situations that take some split second mental analysis. What does the car do if it encounters a squirrel or cat on a residential street or driveway? What if those animals are on an expressway and all other vehicles are traveling at 50mph? What does the car do if a ball bounces onto the street from between two parked cars? A riderless skateboard? Oblivious pedestrian staring at his cellphone?
Clearly, a self-driving car must be able to deal with those oddball situations, not just mundane traffic.
Self driving cars are more idealistic than realistic. Perhaps in the US and Western Europe it might be possible to a limited extent, but in the rest of the world, not likely for decades or even centuries. Apple wants to build products that it can sell worldwide. If it does include self driving capabilities, it will likely not be exclusively self driving, at least not at first.
Db9 is the most sexy, everyday super car there is , Ferrari is a beast to drive, Porsche is a souped up VW, Bmw is a briefcase. Camry - no comment, Lamborghini is for midgets
Are humans perfect in their response to all those scenarios?
More than you think. The fatal accident rate for cars is about 1 every 4 million vehicle-hours. Now, how many times does something go wrong on your computer, once every hour? How many times does something crash, once every 4-8 hours? How long between computer hardware failures, maybe 1 every 14,600 hours? (4 years at 10 hrs/day)
More than you think. The fatal accident rate for cars is about 1 every 4 million vehicle-hours. Now, how many times does something go wrong on your computer, once every hour? How many times does something crash, once every 4-8 hours? How long between computer hardware failures, maybe 1 every 14,600 hours? (4 years at 10 hrs/day)
Oh, come on! We are talking about a completely different level of tech here which would have failsafes and redundencies as do aircraft. How often does the engine management system in your car crash?
Are humans perfect in their response to all those scenarios?
Is this even a serious question?
I can understand some semblance of relevance if the comparison was between an imperfect human and a perfect machine. But, between an imperfect human and an imperfect machine? Really?
Oh, come on! We are talking about a completely different level of tech here which would have failsafes and redundencies as do aircraft. How often does the engine management system in your car crash?
An ECU is very simple. Ford used a 16 bit microcontroller with 16K of RAM for their PCMs up until the mid-2000s. The software fundamentally looks up a value from a table and writes it into a hardware register. No comparison at all with computer vision and all sorts of non-linear algorithms.
One of the most sensible posts to have graced the Apple Insider forums.
Actually, the vast majority of posts here are sensible, excluding yours, and you do your damned best to bring down the IQ of this forum. There isn't a sane person who believes self-driving cars will be the norm anytime soon. It's a pipe dream that has many more obstacles besides the technology itself.
Figures that an Apple-centric website would also contain a large number of luxury and sports car enthusiasts. Imagine commentors calling out the article for describing the 5-series as a car for soccer-parents. Okay, no need to imagine it, I count at least three instances already of offended commentors. Just ridiculous.
But spot-on. My '84 heavily-modded 530i was the first european car I ever purchased, and it completely blew all my conceptions of "sedan" out of the water. That car kicked ass! Now, to get the same kind of bang-for-my-buck, it's an M-Series or nothing. bobjohnson hit the nail on the head, it WAS a great car, now it's just a great soccer-sedan.
Comments
Who drives that Camry, seriously?
Isn't one of the self driving cars selling points safety? Driving conditions can be factored in, and reaction times should be much better. If a car suddenly brakes on a highway the cars a mile behind could brake within a millisecond if required. Sudden turns down side roads may not work but those sudden turns are hardly safe at any rate. I think the problem with self driving cars arises when there is an accident and the question of liability comes up. There is also the ethical conundrum - if the self driving car has to make a choice between crashing into a pedestrian on the sidewalk with a child in a stroller, or hitting a single person on a pedestrian crossing - how will it decide? The person on the crossing could be a child and the stroller could be a wheelbarrow. Or in another scenario - how will it choose to kill the passenger it carries or the person blocking the way? How will it asses the risk and if all goes wrong who is to blame?
Between the watch and the alleged car I’m chuckling at the bare-faced class warfare and class envy on display around the web and right here on AI. As an Apple customer I already know I’m a stupid lemming iSheep who loves to pay outrageously higher prices for yesterday’s hardware and software. And now if I decide to purchase the stainless ?Watch with the stainless steel link bracelet for a grand I’ll labeled as hating the poor and oppressed people of the world... in addition to being a stupid iSheep.
I think the problem with self driving cars arises when there is an accident and the question of liability comes up. There is also the ethical conundrum - if the self driving car has to make a choice between crashing into a pedestrian on the sidewalk with a child in a stroller, or hitting a single person on a pedestrian crossing - how will it decide?
This is a personal injury attorney's wet dream. There will be scam artists jumping in front of slow moving ?Cars at every corner.
I disagree with your assumption that self-driving (and self-crashing) cars will be the norm in 10 years, especially in snowy conditions. The only way to make self-driving cars safe is to put them on a series of tracks forcing them to run like the cars at Disney Land years ago...
btw: I have two grown daughters and both have been in minor accidents and they now drive much better than before the accidents.
Initial testing would happen in a controlled environment, but the most practical way for these cars to learn is real-world experience. That's what your daughters did, right? How much time did they spend driving in empty parking lots?
One wouldn't let the self-driving car make all the decisions initially, but it would analyze the road conditions and propose what to do. A human driver would still be operating the vehicle; later, back at the lab, one would analyze the accuracy of the driving computer versus what the driver actually did. As the algorithms improve, you would eventually let the car make more of the driving decisions.
This is where Google is today with their self-driving car (it's a white Lexus SUV). I frequently see it on the roads in Mountain View and surrounding towns, including the freeway. The project managers said that car is able to deal with many situations, including random dickheads pulling in front of the car and slamming on their brakes.
More interesting are unusual situations that take some split second mental analysis. What does the car do if it encounters a squirrel or cat on a residential street or driveway? What if those animals are on an expressway and all other vehicles are traveling at 50mph? What does the car do if a ball bounces onto the street from between two parked cars? A riderless skateboard? Oblivious pedestrian staring at his cellphone?
Clearly, a self-driving car must be able to deal with those oddball situations, not just mundane traffic.
Self driving cars are more idealistic than realistic. Perhaps in the US and Western Europe it might be possible to a limited extent, but in the rest of the world, not likely for decades or even centuries. Apple wants to build products that it can sell worldwide. If it does include self driving capabilities, it will likely not be exclusively self driving, at least not at first.
...
Clearly, a self-driving car must be able to deal with those oddball situations, not just mundane traffic.
Are humans perfect in their response to all those scenarios?
It won't be a minivan. Only a moron would make that conclusion.
LOL. Well played.
I see a minivan from apple
Are humans perfect in their response to all those scenarios?
Based on current accident statistics, it does not appear to be the case.
The biggest cause of accidents is distracted driving. This is an area where computers would be superior to humans who are often inattentive.
Are humans perfect in their response to all those scenarios?
More than you think. The fatal accident rate for cars is about 1 every 4 million vehicle-hours. Now, how many times does something go wrong on your computer, once every hour? How many times does something crash, once every 4-8 hours? How long between computer hardware failures, maybe 1 every 14,600 hours? (4 years at 10 hrs/day)
I think this discussion thread needs to move beyond the premise of a monolithic Apple Car.
Apple has the resources to develop an electric car platform and then design a range of vehicles based on that platform
Apple Car Sport (think 2 person small commuter/city car) $20-30K
Apple Car SUV (think standard family car) $30-50K
Apple Car Edition (halo car, insanely great) $100K
More than you think. The fatal accident rate for cars is about 1 every 4 million vehicle-hours. Now, how many times does something go wrong on your computer, once every hour? How many times does something crash, once every 4-8 hours? How long between computer hardware failures, maybe 1 every 14,600 hours? (4 years at 10 hrs/day)
Oh, come on! We are talking about a completely different level of tech here which would have failsafes and redundencies as do aircraft. How often does the engine management system in your car crash?
I see a minivan from apple
LOL. Well played.
I'm clever too.
Are humans perfect in their response to all those scenarios?
Is this even a serious question?
I can understand some semblance of relevance if the comparison was between an imperfect human and a perfect machine. But, between an imperfect human and an imperfect machine? Really?
C'mon...
On the question of autonomous driving, I don't believe the technology is even close yet to what would be needed, nor are we ready as a society.
Apple's focus is always on user experience and so I believe their inital entry will be focused on augmented driving.
Imagine if they integrated haptic feedback into the seat and steering wheel.
Imagine if Siri was fully integrated into every aspect of the vehicle.
Apple could even rethink very basic things like the gas and brake pedals.
Oh, come on! We are talking about a completely different level of tech here which would have failsafes and redundencies as do aircraft. How often does the engine management system in your car crash?
An ECU is very simple. Ford used a 16 bit microcontroller with 16K of RAM for their PCMs up until the mid-2000s. The software fundamentally looks up a value from a table and writes it into a hardware register. No comparison at all with computer vision and all sorts of non-linear algorithms.
One of the most sensible posts to have graced the Apple Insider forums.
Actually, the vast majority of posts here are sensible, excluding yours, and you do your damned best to bring down the IQ of this forum. There isn't a sane person who believes self-driving cars will be the norm anytime soon. It's a pipe dream that has many more obstacles besides the technology itself.
Figures that an Apple-centric website would also contain a large number of luxury and sports car enthusiasts. Imagine commentors calling out the article for describing the 5-series as a car for soccer-parents. Okay, no need to imagine it, I count at least three instances already of offended commentors. Just ridiculous.
But spot-on. My '84 heavily-modded 530i was the first european car I ever purchased, and it completely blew all my conceptions of "sedan" out of the water. That car kicked ass! Now, to get the same kind of bang-for-my-buck, it's an M-Series or nothing. bobjohnson hit the nail on the head, it WAS a great car, now it's just a great soccer-sedan.
Just ridiculous!
And besides, no Teslas?
dmz