The article also doesn't highlight how quickly the Exynos performance drops off a cliff once the GPU has been running hard for short periods of time. It's fast & severe.
Thermal throttling my friend - something rarely mentioned but rather important and something that is the bane of MALI GPU cores and Adreno (albeit to a lesser extent).
Thermal throttling is a significant distinction. I guess we'll have to wait for in-depth reviews (such as from Anandtech) to know if the S6 does thermal throttling (for gaming). Don't forget the benchmark cheating, also, although I think the trend is to not to cheat anymore.
My thoughts exactly. We don't need hollow victories based on spin. The results are mixed, at best. I see 1080p and fill performance exceeding that of iPhone 6.
Kind of the point I was trying to make. DED picking on screen gpu benchmarks let's some folks here feel good. But he doesn't need to cherry pick data. The iphone is still the best all round phone. Let's be knowledgeable WHY instead of wanting Republican-like talking points.
Who cares if the newest Exynos has caught up to the A8. The overall package is still better. Until games render at 1440p natively, DEDs handpicked stats are the kind of pointless.
The S6 is still petty powerful and outperforms the iPhones in offscreen benchmarks. But when you look at the clock speed differences you have to ask at almost double the CPU speed why is the performance gain so little.
The S6 is still petty powerful and outperforms the iPhones in offscreen benchmarks. But when you look at the clock speed differences you have to ask at almost double the CPU speed why is the performance gain so little.
Because it's about end-to-end performance (of which the CPU is a small part). It doesn't matter if the CPU is doing calculations at 500GHz, if the results are sitting in the cache waiting to be sent somewhere (e.g. main memory, disk, screen), it doesn't make any difference.
Real world performance is all that matters. And once again the Samdung phones will continue to be slower and more laggy than the iPhone because of a crappy OS and touchWiz.
You seem to mistake that I am supporting Samsung. I am not. I just despise these DED articles that contain blatant lies. I am not arguing the merits of the OS's(as Touchwiz is garbage), I am simply saying that the DED article contains obvious factual errors that I assume are intentional to further this hit piece. And I guess " the display of the Galaxy S6 is relatively perfect with its dark, inky blacks and amazing color" and "The Exynos 7420 SoC appears to be class-leading in performance" are technobabble on the intrawebbs. If he wants to argue that Touchwiz sucks(it does) and that the bottom chin of the device is an exact duplicate of the iphone(it pretty much is), I would have no comment.
Not surprised that the copycats can't keep up with Apple. iPhones battery does quite well and you can't lose your battery like the ones that are removable. Also those removable batteries last half as long as an iPhone battery so you need several of them. Apple does the full widget hardware and software and they don't ever do anything half assed. The copycats are always in a hurry to be first so most of there stuff is half assed. They make it look good like an iPhone 6 but that's about it.
You seem to mistake that I am supporting Samsung. I am not. I just despise these DED articles that contain blatant lies. I am not arguing the merits of the OS's(as Touchwiz is garbage), I am simply saying that the DED article contains obvious factual errors that I assume are intentional to further this hit piece. And I guess " the display of the Galaxy S6 is relatively perfect with its dark, inky blacks and amazing color" and "The Exynos 7420 SoC appears to be class-leading in performance" are technobabble on the intrawebbs. If he wants to argue that Touchwiz sucks(it does) and that the bottom chin of the device is an exact duplicate of the iphone(it pretty much is), I would have no comment.
I won't argue on display quality, as that something which is a direct experience for the end user. Though, similar to artificially increasing bass response in speakers/headphones to appeal to those who simply want to show off rather than hear the details of sound over the full audio spectrum, it's easy to bias a display towards things which are attention grabbers (but may not give a good experience in all situations). But Sammy has plenty of expertise in displays, so I wouldn't be surprised if the display in the S6 is better than the iPhone 6 overall.
However, if you're going to call DED out for a useless benchmark, then don't turn around and use a quote like "class-leading performance". That's a pretty useless description without actually quantifying what it gains people in the real world. As I mentioned above, pumping up the specs of one hardware component without doing so for others in the chain doesn't really lead to any real world gains.
Using high resolution Pen-Tile displays and low end graphics chips is a really bad chice by samsung.
At Pentile, you may got "576 ppi" or so but te sharpness is just some 472 ppi for a normal display. You just took the subpixels and counted them differently so you can achieve higher resolution. Then Pen-Tile is terrible for GPU's without any special modifications (which samsung didn't bother to implement) as GPU computes color of each pixel at RGB with R going to red subpixel, blue to a blue one and so on. If it sends that data to a Pen-Tile display, third of this compute power can be wasted out (If you don't have Pen-Tile aware software). The mali GPU in the other galaxy computes 2560x1440x3 subpixels, but the display can display just a two thirds of that. What you get is a display with bassically unnoticeable sharpness benefit compared to full HD but noticeably lower GPU perf.
Ok that's for equal GPU's. If we compare the PowerVr GX6450 GPU in the iPhone at around 500Mhz with octa core mali 760 at 772Mhz we will find that at imediate offscreen tests the mali is actually faster. But the huge difference is in efficiency which matters the most in mobile bussiness. While the iPhone GPU is insanelly efficient, mali is a cheap low end part. A less efficient GPU consumes more energy and is forced to lower the clockspeed to prevent a meltdown from produced heat. At GFX bench battery life test the iPhone can sustain it's full GPU performance for the entire run (30minutes), the galaxy GPU can sustain only about half of full performance and at this halved performance ( about as fast as an iPhone 5C) it still consumes more power than a 6 Plus.
And that's without mentioning that samsung got a rather big adventage on their side in form of a 14nm manufacteuring process supposed to draw just 70% of the power of a 20 nm process (which the iPhone uses) for the same architecture and workload.
Not at all. I've been saying that PPI only needs to be in the 300-400 PPI range. Once you can no longer see the pixels on the screen, anything more is overkill. Now you're just making the CPU/GPU work a whole lot harder moving around a bunch of pixels you can't see.
This is Android, you take what you see Apple doing, and just try and out do them. Once everyone n Android starts doing the same, well you have to keep upping it higher and higher to be on top to get people to buy your phone because your specs are better on paper then everyone else. So you get the ever growing screen sizes, to the ever growing PPI, to the ever growing Mega Pixels in Camera's to more and more cores. All in the name to beat everyone else spec wise. But in the end, there's no where to go!!!
This is one of the major issues with Android. No one owns it but Google. You can't make any money after the sale from your hardware, only Google and their services. No one wants to use anyone else's, Samsung has been trying a number of years, while Google is pushing their services more up front and center then ever before. The only place this isn't happening is in China where Google is almost non-existent. They're using their own App store and using Forked versions of Android. It's a whole different market. Amazon here has been trying to do the same, but again, their phone FAILED. Tablets are doing?!?!?! Why buy a Amazon Phone when you can buy a normal Android phone and use Google's services instead!!!!
Samsung and their whole 8 core chips. Wouldn't it be better to just have to more powerful 4 cores, and ditch the other loser 4 cores, and for power savings, just run 1 out of the 4? Crap design of their processor. I don't care the size of the phone screen, but if you keep it in the 300-400 PPI range you're doing great. As screen size goes up, then you bump resolution up to continue staying in that range. Lets put this in prospective, when they're talking about 2K or 4K screen resolutions, when you go see a Movie at the theater, You're generally watching on Digital 4K. Now how HUGE is that screen? Will screen sizes are very larger to even larger and do you see any pixels? Even if you're sitting up close. This is why it's getting beyond silly.
However, if you're going to call DED out for a useless benchmark, then don't turn around and use a quote like "class-leading performance". That's a pretty useless description without actually quantifying what it gains people in the real world. As I mentioned above, pumping up the specs of one hardware component without doing so for others in the chain doesn't really lead to any real world gains.
Those were just non "technobabble" quotes. The article on Anand is much more detailed and includes all those useless benchmarks. I am simply saying calling the GPU cheap when it outperforms most other competitors in offscreen performance(IE same number of pixels), seems to be innacurate at best or a blatant lie at worst. He is pulling very specific benchmarks to further his weekly hit piece, and then making up FUD to go with it. If he stuck to arguing simply that the GPU is underpowered for the resolution(which it isn't really, but comparative performance is lower for on screen benchmarking) I would be okay with that as well. Its just all the other garbarge that is rediculous. He really needs to look at how Anand does comparisons, but I doubt he believes in accurate comparisons.
Indeed, and it is cultural. All East Asian companies suffer from it. There is a lot social pressure in these countries to follow the hurd
It goes deeper than that in business - it is a culture of cheating and stealing pretty much across the board. It is a basic business strategy. There is no moral compass. This goes for Korea and China.
Indeed, and it is cultural. All East Asian companies suffer from it. There is a lot social pressure in these countries to follow the hurd
It goes deeper than that in business - it is a culture of cheating and stealing pretty much across the board. It is a basic business strategy. There is no moral compass. This goes for Korea and China.
Do we really need to drop in some casual racism in the discussion?
Comments
The article also doesn't highlight how quickly the Exynos performance drops off a cliff once the GPU has been running hard for short periods of time. It's fast & severe.
Thermal throttling my friend - something rarely mentioned but rather important and something that is the bane of MALI GPU cores and Adreno (albeit to a lesser extent).
Thermal throttling is a significant distinction. I guess we'll have to wait for in-depth reviews (such as from Anandtech) to know if the S6 does thermal throttling (for gaming). Don't forget the benchmark cheating, also, although I think the trend is to not to cheat anymore.
Samsung seems to require competitors, in order to have some idea of what to emulate and build...
It never seems to me that Apple needs to have competition to "push" it towards improvements, innovations, or quality.
So I'm not sure we'd suffer that much if Apple were the "only supplier"...(but God help us if almost any other company were).
Indeed, and it is cultural. All East Asian companies suffer from it. There is a lot social pressure in these countries to follow the hurd
My iPhone 6 Plus, FTW!
Indeed, and it is cultural. All East Asian companies suffer from it. There is a lot social pressure in these countries to follow the hurd
At least KIA realized they sucked at design and hired a German to do it for them. And then actually let him do it.
Samsung seems to require competitors, in order to have some idea of what to emulate and build...
It never seems to me that Apple needs to have competition to "push" it towards improvements, innovations, or quality.
So I'm not sure we'd suffer that much if Apple were the "only supplier"...(but God help us if almost any other company were).
Apple isn't above taking hints from competitors either (e.g. Android notifications), as evidenced by docs unearthed during the Apple v. Samsung trial (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/steve-jobs/10749457/Steve-Jobs-planned-Holy-War-with-Google.html). They're just usually quiet about it.
Kind of the point I was trying to make. DED picking on screen gpu benchmarks let's some folks here feel good. But he doesn't need to cherry pick data. The iphone is still the best all round phone. Let's be knowledgeable WHY instead of wanting Republican-like talking points.
Who cares if the newest Exynos has caught up to the A8. The overall package is still better. Until games render at 1440p natively, DEDs handpicked stats are the kind of pointless.
Dang pixels on the Note 4 are gouging my eyes out;
The S6 is still petty powerful and outperforms the iPhones in offscreen benchmarks. But when you look at the clock speed differences you have to ask at almost double the CPU speed why is the performance gain so little.
Because it's about end-to-end performance (of which the CPU is a small part). It doesn't matter if the CPU is doing calculations at 500GHz, if the results are sitting in the cache waiting to be sent somewhere (e.g. main memory, disk, screen), it doesn't make any difference.
Again. Your techno blabber means jack shit.
Real world performance is all that matters. And once again the Samdung phones will continue to be slower and more laggy than the iPhone because of a crappy OS and touchWiz.
You seem to mistake that I am supporting Samsung. I am not. I just despise these DED articles that contain blatant lies. I am not arguing the merits of the OS's(as Touchwiz is garbage), I am simply saying that the DED article contains obvious factual errors that I assume are intentional to further this hit piece. And I guess " the display of the Galaxy S6 is relatively perfect with its dark, inky blacks and amazing color" and "The Exynos 7420 SoC appears to be class-leading in performance" are technobabble on the intrawebbs. If he wants to argue that Touchwiz sucks(it does) and that the bottom chin of the device is an exact duplicate of the iphone(it pretty much is), I would have no comment.
Apple isn't above taking hints from competitors either (e.g. Android notifications), as evidenced by docs unearthed during the Apple v. Samsung trial (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/steve-jobs/10749457/Steve-Jobs-planned-Holy-War-with-Google.html). They're just usually quiet about it.
Your link doesn't seem to work the way you probably intended...
Expected .... thanks to lousy google developers!
The ONLY thing those morons at google are good at is sell Ads, spy on users and so on!
You seem to mistake that I am supporting Samsung. I am not. I just despise these DED articles that contain blatant lies. I am not arguing the merits of the OS's(as Touchwiz is garbage), I am simply saying that the DED article contains obvious factual errors that I assume are intentional to further this hit piece. And I guess " the display of the Galaxy S6 is relatively perfect with its dark, inky blacks and amazing color" and "The Exynos 7420 SoC appears to be class-leading in performance" are technobabble on the intrawebbs. If he wants to argue that Touchwiz sucks(it does) and that the bottom chin of the device is an exact duplicate of the iphone(it pretty much is), I would have no comment.
I won't argue on display quality, as that something which is a direct experience for the end user. Though, similar to artificially increasing bass response in speakers/headphones to appeal to those who simply want to show off rather than hear the details of sound over the full audio spectrum, it's easy to bias a display towards things which are attention grabbers (but may not give a good experience in all situations). But Sammy has plenty of expertise in displays, so I wouldn't be surprised if the display in the S6 is better than the iPhone 6 overall.
However, if you're going to call DED out for a useless benchmark, then don't turn around and use a quote like "class-leading performance". That's a pretty useless description without actually quantifying what it gains people in the real world. As I mentioned above, pumping up the specs of one hardware component without doing so for others in the chain doesn't really lead to any real world gains.
At Pentile, you may got "576 ppi" or so but te sharpness is just some 472 ppi for a normal display. You just took the subpixels and counted them differently so you can achieve higher resolution. Then Pen-Tile is terrible for GPU's without any special modifications (which samsung didn't bother to implement) as GPU computes color of each pixel at RGB with R going to red subpixel, blue to a blue one and so on. If it sends that data to a Pen-Tile display, third of this compute power can be wasted out (If you don't have Pen-Tile aware software). The mali GPU in the other galaxy computes 2560x1440x3 subpixels, but the display can display just a two thirds of that.
What you get is a display with bassically unnoticeable sharpness benefit compared to full HD but noticeably lower GPU perf.
Ok that's for equal GPU's. If we compare the PowerVr GX6450 GPU in the iPhone at around 500Mhz with octa core mali 760 at 772Mhz we will find that at imediate offscreen tests the mali is actually faster. But the huge difference is in efficiency which matters the most in mobile bussiness. While the iPhone GPU is insanelly efficient, mali is a cheap low end part. A less efficient GPU consumes more energy and is forced to lower the clockspeed to prevent a meltdown from produced heat.
At GFX bench battery life test the iPhone can sustain it's full GPU performance for the entire run (30minutes), the galaxy GPU can sustain only about half of full performance and at this halved performance ( about as fast as an iPhone 5C) it still consumes more power than a 6 Plus.
http://gfxbench.com/device.jsp?benchmark=gfx31&os=Android&api=gl&did=25103839&D=Samsung Galaxy S6 (SM-G920x%2C%20SC-05G)
And that's without mentioning that samsung got a rather big adventage on their side in form of a 14nm manufacteuring process supposed to draw just 70% of the power of a 20 nm process (which the iPhone uses) for the same architecture and workload.
Oh and of course, then there is Apple Metal.
Is anyone surprised?
Not at all. I've been saying that PPI only needs to be in the 300-400 PPI range. Once you can no longer see the pixels on the screen, anything more is overkill. Now you're just making the CPU/GPU work a whole lot harder moving around a bunch of pixels you can't see.
This is Android, you take what you see Apple doing, and just try and out do them. Once everyone n Android starts doing the same, well you have to keep upping it higher and higher to be on top to get people to buy your phone because your specs are better on paper then everyone else. So you get the ever growing screen sizes, to the ever growing PPI, to the ever growing Mega Pixels in Camera's to more and more cores. All in the name to beat everyone else spec wise. But in the end, there's no where to go!!!
This is one of the major issues with Android. No one owns it but Google. You can't make any money after the sale from your hardware, only Google and their services. No one wants to use anyone else's, Samsung has been trying a number of years, while Google is pushing their services more up front and center then ever before. The only place this isn't happening is in China where Google is almost non-existent. They're using their own App store and using Forked versions of Android. It's a whole different market. Amazon here has been trying to do the same, but again, their phone FAILED. Tablets are doing?!?!?! Why buy a Amazon Phone when you can buy a normal Android phone and use Google's services instead!!!!
Samsung and their whole 8 core chips. Wouldn't it be better to just have to more powerful 4 cores, and ditch the other loser 4 cores, and for power savings, just run 1 out of the 4? Crap design of their processor. I don't care the size of the phone screen, but if you keep it in the 300-400 PPI range you're doing great. As screen size goes up, then you bump resolution up to continue staying in that range. Lets put this in prospective, when they're talking about 2K or 4K screen resolutions, when you go see a Movie at the theater, You're generally watching on Digital 4K. Now how HUGE is that screen? Will screen sizes are very larger to even larger and do you see any pixels? Even if you're sitting up close. This is why it's getting beyond silly.
However, if you're going to call DED out for a useless benchmark, then don't turn around and use a quote like "class-leading performance". That's a pretty useless description without actually quantifying what it gains people in the real world. As I mentioned above, pumping up the specs of one hardware component without doing so for others in the chain doesn't really lead to any real world gains.
Those were just non "technobabble" quotes. The article on Anand is much more detailed and includes all those useless benchmarks. I am simply saying calling the GPU cheap when it outperforms most other competitors in offscreen performance(IE same number of pixels), seems to be innacurate at best or a blatant lie at worst. He is pulling very specific benchmarks to further his weekly hit piece, and then making up FUD to go with it. If he stuck to arguing simply that the GPU is underpowered for the resolution(which it isn't really, but comparative performance is lower for on screen benchmarking) I would be okay with that as well. Its just all the other garbarge that is rediculous. He really needs to look at how Anand does comparisons, but I doubt he believes in accurate comparisons.
It goes deeper than that in business - it is a culture of cheating and stealing pretty much across the board. It is a basic business strategy. There is no moral compass. This goes for Korea and China.