Haven't read all of the posts in this thread, but I saw many people discussing free e-mail. I've been using Myrealbox, it gives 10 MB for e-mail, no spam (haven't received 1 junk mail yet), POP3/IMAP access, and it's free. One catch - Novell uses it as a testing bed for its NetMail product, so there's occasionally (maybe once every couple weeks for 30 min.) periods where you can't get the e-mail.
It's a pretty good e-mail service, and I'm very pleased with it.
because it was promised for free, and now, once everyone has been using it as a switch selling point, it's now gone. it is NOT that same thing as whining about getting something for free.
Sorry, you have a point, but it's unproductive to take Apples' insensitivity on this personally. I've come to grips with the fact that in the future, nothing will be free, and I'm just going to work toward making sure that the good guys are rich enough to stay in the game. Other futures are just too depressing.
Whether this $99/year subscription service is good or bad for Apple, time will tell.
However, it signals to me that Apple have given up trying to make money in the PC business. You'll all remember that Apple floated free iTools as a very good reason why someone should by a Mac. Apparently, they no longer think that's the case or at least don't think any Wintel user would justify it as a reason to switch (or for a few to not switch to a Wintel box).
I've been as loyal of a Mac user that there is for 15 years now but all of the "throw-ins" that make owning a Mac a smart decision appear to no longer be "throw-ins" -- especially considering that the same $99 will get a Wintel owner a subscription, too (OK, it doesn't have Virex).
Take away the one time $50 discount for current iTools users and then you'll see that what Steve Jobs announced today was his plan to extract $228 from most Mac users in the next two months.
I don't think the loyal Mac users are going to be happy when they realize that they're being asked to pony up a lot of money and absolutely none of it is for what Apple has implicitely asked us to do in the past -- buy a new Macintosh computer.
Well I don't think I'll be paying this. And here are my reasons :
1.) I don't use my iDisk, iCards, or the "web hosting" that apple has.
2.) I won't use a Virus scanner. I won't use a backup utility.
3.) I won't pay 100 a year for an e-Mail address.
What they should've done is made it a big hosting plan. I use MediaTemple for my webhosting and e-Mail but I still use my mac.com e-Mail for family and friends so it doesn't get all spammed up. If Apple told me
100 MB and 5 e-Mail accounts. PHP and MySQL enabled, 10 GB transfer a month, web stats, and the rest of .mac services
then I'd be happy. I'd also be happy if they kept the original iTools service for people that don't need all that extra crap. Now my OS X apps won't function as well as they could because I don't feel the need for a .mac account. mail.app won't integrate so nice as it does with the mac.com mail, iPhoto, all that...you're kinda screwed now.
I guess that's their plan. Like your iApps? Want them to function correctly? Pay us 100 bucks a year.
What Apple should have done is keep iTools free, and start charging $$$ for iApp updates. I would gladly pay a software fee to OWN these apps (I paid my $29.99 for Quicktime pro), and this plan would at least give me the choice of using what I already have.
Instead, we get iBackup that only works after it has checked with Apple to see if it is OK. I downloaded Backup and tried it, and the first thing that happened was a verification of my iTools account.
I usually don't have a problem spending more money than I should. It's a rather nice talent I have, actually. Heck, I even have a *.*.name address that I never use.
What bugs me about this is Apple gave it to you, let you get comfortable with it, and now they're saying:
"You like-a da email? You wanna more email? You wanna 100MB? Let's see some cash."
So, what's next?
If dot-mac goes over well, what will we pay for next?
iTunes?
iMovie?
"You like-a da iSync? $25, cash, please."
I don't mind Apple running their business the way they see fit. I just don't like my chain getting yanked.
I woke up to this news this AM and was disgusted at Apple. Then, after the keynote, I saw where they are going.
.Mac doesn't make any sense today, its basically the same thing we have been getting for free. But Apple will continue to release SW the relies on .Mac (iCal, iPhoto). Then we will all get it because it will offer some real value.
I am irritated at the fact that there is no basic (no-frills) membership that comes w/the purchase of OSX. They could have decreased the iDisk size (say 10MB), limited the number of webpages you could have, and still included basic email for free. Yes, F-R-E-E.
It would have been a very cool extension of the Mac. After all, there is a keyboard shortcut for iDisk. What happens if you dont pay? Does the key-combo not work?
I, on the other hand, am in no position to pay for this even if I would like to. You people complaining at the whiners for not looking at the "reality" of times ought to reflect upon the fact that perhaps they are: reflecting upon the reality of their own financial situations.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Wait a second!
:eek:
You are actually arguing that Apple run its business according to your financial situations?
They are a business.. not a government charity hand out program.
<strong>i understand that those services cost money. but i don't WANT them. i just want free email.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Who says email is FREE? It was because Apple gave it to you; now they ask you to pay. If you don't want to pay, then go out and sign up for one of the zillions of free and reliable email services you seem to think ring the planet. <img src="graemlins/surprised.gif" border="0" alt="[Surprised]" />
<strong>What Apple should have done is keep iTools free, and start charging $$$ for iApp updates. I would gladly pay a software fee to OWN these apps (I paid my $29.99 for Quicktime pro), and this plan would at least give me the choice of using what I already have.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think we took the free iTools accounts for granted. When first announced at Macworld SF 2000, everybody yawned and griped because there were no hardware announcements at that particular expo. Now we're all whining about how mac.com is our lifeblood and should remain free.
The problem in the first place was that it was free. It was easy to abuse. It was easy to create multiple accounts. I think a reasonable solution, or stop-gap would be for a pricing plan like I outlined above.
You are actually arguing that Apple run its business according to your financial situations?
They are a business.. not a government charity hand out program.
Don't make get all 'Atlas Shrugged' on you.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Can you say "overdetermination"?
Clearly the complaint about .mac is a financial one: either people don't think Apple ought to be charging for it at all or they think they are charging too much for it. I haven't heard many complaints (if any) about what .mac does; in fact, I have heard plenty of people comment on the services as they stand positively.
If money wasn't a concern for people I doubt we would hear complaints. And I merely thought it was ironic that someone with the name "poor taylor" should have forked out the cash for it already--funny, don't you think?
What really bugs me on threads like this is those people who like to get on threads and complain about whiners: a little double standard seems evident if you go back and read through the thread. As far as I'm concerned there is something worse than whiners: people who like to bitch about whiners.
<strong>Whether this $99/year subscription service is good or bad for Apple, time will tell.
However, it signals to me that Apple have given up trying to make money in the PC business. You'll all remember that Apple floated free iTools as a very good reason why someone should by a Mac. Apparently, they no longer think that's the case or at least don't think any Wintel user would justify it as a reason to switch (or for a few to not switch to a Wintel box).</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think Apple found that iTools wasn't giving people enough of a reason to switch and that it was expensive to maintain. iApps get great press all the time for their functionality and ease of use. They are the 'free' reason to switch these days.
[quote]Originally posted by Hudson:
<strong>
I've been as loyal of a Mac user that there is for 15 years now but all of the "throw-ins" that make owning a Mac a smart decision appear to no longer be "throw-ins" -- especially considering that the same $99 will get a Wintel owner a subscription, too (OK, it doesn't have Virex).
</strong><hr></blockquote>
What throw in? I don't remember throw-ins. I have used Apple's since 82 (granted I was a kid) and I don't remember throw-ins. I hope you don't mean the mouse pad And Wintel uses don't have access to the .Mac, iApps intergration, ie iCal over .Mac etc, they just get the email and storage. They also miss out on iDisk Utility, HomePage Maker etc, all software tools specifically for .Mac.
[quote]Originally posted by Hudson:
<strong>
Take away the one time $50 discount for current iTools users and then you'll see that what Steve Jobs announced today was his plan to extract $228 from most Mac users in the next two months.
I don't think the loyal Mac users are going to be happy when they realize that they're being asked to pony up a lot of money and absolutely none of it is for what Apple has implicitely asked us to do in the past -- buy a new Macintosh computer.</strong><hr></blockquote>
So Apple is trying to make money on their service...is this a new idea to anyone? How can anyone bitch that Apple is trying to make money? Their prices for these services aren't astronomical, they are inline with most of the industry. (tell me those other free services don't have some way to make money..like spyware etc..which i would gladly pay to avoid.) Apple never promised iTools forever. Obviously it wasn't doing for Apple what it was intended to do, which is bring in new users. What it was accomplishing was draining resources from Apple. Apple announced a $32 million dollar provide yesterday. Does that sound like a lot for a large tech company? If MS is charging for net based services, and they have what, 40x that money Apple does for spending far less for the basic business expenses, how is unrealistic to expect Apple to charge?
I would like a tiered program, but if Apple doesn't release it, I won't hold it against them...they are trying to make money in a very difficult time. This is a premium service, and deerves to cost money.
"I think we took the free iTools accounts for granted. When first announced at Macworld SF 2000, everybody yawned and griped because there were no hardware announcements at that particular expo. Now we're all whining about how mac.com is our lifeblood and should remain free."
Too true. Same today. People wanted super hardware. To some degree, they got it. Kind of.
It's a shame Jaguar is being over looked in the storm of .Mac controversy.
Irony.
...because we got great software today.
Yeesh. Wasn't Seybold the traditional 'power'Mac venue anyhow?
"So Apple is trying to make money on their service...is this a new idea to anyone? How can anyone bitch that Apple is trying to make money? Their prices for these services aren't astronomical, they are inline with most of the industry. (tell me those other free services don't have some way to make money..like spyware etc..which i would gladly pay to avoid.) Apple never promised iTools forever. Obviously it wasn't doing for Apple what it was intended to do, which is bring in new users. What it was accomplishing was draining resources from Apple. Apple announced a $32 million dollar provide yesterday. Does that sound like a lot for a large tech company? If MS is charging for net based services, and they have what, 40x that money Apple does for spending far less for the basic business expenses, how is unrealistic to expect Apple to charge?
I would like a tiered program, but if Apple doesn't release it, I won't hold it against them...they are trying to make money in a very difficult time. This is a premium service, and deerves to cost money."
I'm not gonna boycott .Mac. I'm just not gonna pay for what I already paid for by buying my iBook. Apple said, (I'm paraphrasing here) "Hey look, if you buy a new Mac, you get this cool iTools stuff including your very own free Mac.com email address. Now you can tell everyone you use a Mac every time you send an email". Sounds like Apple's been getting something for free, too. Free advertising. Mac.com was a win-win situation. I used the service and Apple subtly advertised the Mac with every email I sent. But .Mac? No thanks, I said, and have already emailed everyone I know from my new, free, pop.email address. No more mac.com at the top of my emails, not unless, that is, Apple is willing to pay me 10 cents for every mac.com email I send off. Maybe I should ask for 50 cents. What's wrong with a little profit?
Comments
It's a pretty good e-mail service, and I'm very pleased with it.
<a href="http://www.myrealbox.com"; target="_blank">http://www.myrealbox.com</a>;
Sorry, you have a point, but it's unproductive to take Apples' insensitivity on this personally. I've come to grips with the fact that in the future, nothing will be free, and I'm just going to work toward making sure that the good guys are rich enough to stay in the game. Other futures are just too depressing.
However, it signals to me that Apple have given up trying to make money in the PC business. You'll all remember that Apple floated free iTools as a very good reason why someone should by a Mac. Apparently, they no longer think that's the case or at least don't think any Wintel user would justify it as a reason to switch (or for a few to not switch to a Wintel box).
I've been as loyal of a Mac user that there is for 15 years now but all of the "throw-ins" that make owning a Mac a smart decision appear to no longer be "throw-ins" -- especially considering that the same $99 will get a Wintel owner a subscription, too (OK, it doesn't have Virex).
Take away the one time $50 discount for current iTools users and then you'll see that what Steve Jobs announced today was his plan to extract $228 from most Mac users in the next two months.
I don't think the loyal Mac users are going to be happy when they realize that they're being asked to pony up a lot of money and absolutely none of it is for what Apple has implicitely asked us to do in the past -- buy a new Macintosh computer.
1.) I don't use my iDisk, iCards, or the "web hosting" that apple has.
2.) I won't use a Virus scanner. I won't use a backup utility.
3.) I won't pay 100 a year for an e-Mail address.
What they should've done is made it a big hosting plan. I use MediaTemple for my webhosting and e-Mail but I still use my mac.com e-Mail for family and friends so it doesn't get all spammed up. If Apple told me
100 MB and 5 e-Mail accounts. PHP and MySQL enabled, 10 GB transfer a month, web stats, and the rest of .mac services
then I'd be happy. I'd also be happy if they kept the original iTools service for people that don't need all that extra crap. Now my OS X apps won't function as well as they could because I don't feel the need for a .mac account. mail.app won't integrate so nice as it does with the mac.com mail, iPhoto, all that...you're kinda screwed now.
I guess that's their plan. Like your iApps? Want them to function correctly? Pay us 100 bucks a year.
So if I could tell them one thing....
Offer more, or give a discounted option.
Instead, we get iBackup that only works after it has checked with Apple to see if it is OK. I downloaded Backup and tried it, and the first thing that happened was a verification of my iTools account.
I usually don't have a problem spending more money than I should. It's a rather nice talent I have, actually. Heck, I even have a *.*.name address that I never use.
What bugs me about this is Apple gave it to you, let you get comfortable with it, and now they're saying:
"You like-a da email? You wanna more email? You wanna 100MB? Let's see some cash."
So, what's next?
If dot-mac goes over well, what will we pay for next?
iTunes?
iMovie?
"You like-a da iSync? $25, cash, please."
I don't mind Apple running their business the way they see fit. I just don't like my chain getting yanked.
EOG (end-of-gripe)
I woke up to this news this AM and was disgusted at Apple. Then, after the keynote, I saw where they are going.
.Mac doesn't make any sense today, its basically the same thing we have been getting for free. But Apple will continue to release SW the relies on .Mac (iCal, iPhoto). Then we will all get it because it will offer some real value.
I am irritated at the fact that there is no basic (no-frills) membership that comes w/the purchase of OSX. They could have decreased the iDisk size (say 10MB), limited the number of webpages you could have, and still included basic email for free. Yes, F-R-E-E.
It would have been a very cool extension of the Mac. After all, there is a keyboard shortcut for iDisk. What happens if you dont pay? Does the key-combo not work?
<strong>
poor taylor obviously isn't very poor!
I, on the other hand, am in no position to pay for this even if I would like to. You people complaining at the whiners for not looking at the "reality" of times ought to reflect upon the fact that perhaps they are: reflecting upon the reality of their own financial situations.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Wait a second!
:eek:
You are actually arguing that Apple run its business according to your financial situations?
They are a business.. not a government charity hand out program.
Don't make get all 'Atlas Shrugged' on you.
<strong>
$8.30/mth for what?
A POP e-mail account.
Anti-virus software. (Crappy anti-virus software at that)
A backup application. (Yet-to-be-seen, guaranteed to be not worth $50 as quoted on their site)
Webhosting
100MB online storage.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
You can find both Backup and iDisk Utility in your iDisk (~/Software/Apple Software). I'm installing Backup now...
Okay, it's preconfigured to automatically backup:
Address Book contacts
Internet Explorer settings
Keychain
various file types in user home folder (AW, Excel, ppt,FMPro...)
iTunes playlists
files on desktop
You can schedule your backups (default is between midnight and 2am!), and there's a graphic display showing how much iDisk space you're using.
Looks, er, okay. Utilitarian, as a utility should be!
<strong>i understand that those services cost money. but i don't WANT them. i just want free email.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Who says email is FREE? It was because Apple gave it to you; now they ask you to pay. If you don't want to pay, then go out and sign up for one of the zillions of free and reliable email services you seem to think ring the planet. <img src="graemlins/surprised.gif" border="0" alt="[Surprised]" />
<strong>What Apple should have done is keep iTools free, and start charging $$$ for iApp updates. I would gladly pay a software fee to OWN these apps (I paid my $29.99 for Quicktime pro), and this plan would at least give me the choice of using what I already have.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think we took the free iTools accounts for granted. When first announced at Macworld SF 2000, everybody yawned and griped because there were no hardware announcements at that particular expo. Now we're all whining about how mac.com is our lifeblood and should remain free.
The problem in the first place was that it was free. It was easy to abuse. It was easy to create multiple accounts. I think a reasonable solution, or stop-gap would be for a pricing plan like I outlined above.
<strong>
It does cost them money, that's for sure. I also know people with 5 or 10 iDisks set up - that's got to cost them alot.
.</strong><hr></blockquote>
that's ridiculous.
well apple should limit it to *1* account per person <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
why should we suffer because apple messed up in the first place
[ 07-17-2002: Message edited by: burningwheel ]</p>
<strong>
Wait a second!
:eek:
You are actually arguing that Apple run its business according to your financial situations?
They are a business.. not a government charity hand out program.
Don't make get all 'Atlas Shrugged' on you.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Can you say "overdetermination"?
Clearly the complaint about .mac is a financial one: either people don't think Apple ought to be charging for it at all or they think they are charging too much for it. I haven't heard many complaints (if any) about what .mac does; in fact, I have heard plenty of people comment on the services as they stand positively.
If money wasn't a concern for people I doubt we would hear complaints. And I merely thought it was ironic that someone with the name "poor taylor" should have forked out the cash for it already--funny, don't you think?
What really bugs me on threads like this is those people who like to get on threads and complain about whiners: a little double standard seems evident if you go back and read through the thread. As far as I'm concerned there is something worse than whiners: people who like to bitch about whiners.
<strong>Whether this $99/year subscription service is good or bad for Apple, time will tell.
However, it signals to me that Apple have given up trying to make money in the PC business. You'll all remember that Apple floated free iTools as a very good reason why someone should by a Mac. Apparently, they no longer think that's the case or at least don't think any Wintel user would justify it as a reason to switch (or for a few to not switch to a Wintel box).</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think Apple found that iTools wasn't giving people enough of a reason to switch and that it was expensive to maintain. iApps get great press all the time for their functionality and ease of use. They are the 'free' reason to switch these days.
[quote]Originally posted by Hudson:
<strong>
I've been as loyal of a Mac user that there is for 15 years now but all of the "throw-ins" that make owning a Mac a smart decision appear to no longer be "throw-ins" -- especially considering that the same $99 will get a Wintel owner a subscription, too (OK, it doesn't have Virex).
</strong><hr></blockquote>
What throw in? I don't remember throw-ins. I have used Apple's since 82 (granted I was a kid) and I don't remember throw-ins. I hope you don't mean the mouse pad
[quote]Originally posted by Hudson:
<strong>
Take away the one time $50 discount for current iTools users and then you'll see that what Steve Jobs announced today was his plan to extract $228 from most Mac users in the next two months.
I don't think the loyal Mac users are going to be happy when they realize that they're being asked to pony up a lot of money and absolutely none of it is for what Apple has implicitely asked us to do in the past -- buy a new Macintosh computer.</strong><hr></blockquote>
So Apple is trying to make money on their service...is this a new idea to anyone? How can anyone bitch that Apple is trying to make money? Their prices for these services aren't astronomical, they are inline with most of the industry. (tell me those other free services don't have some way to make money..like spyware etc..which i would gladly pay to avoid.) Apple never promised iTools forever. Obviously it wasn't doing for Apple what it was intended to do, which is bring in new users. What it was accomplishing was draining resources from Apple. Apple announced a $32 million dollar provide yesterday. Does that sound like a lot for a large tech company? If MS is charging for net based services, and they have what, 40x that money Apple does for spending far less for the basic business expenses, how is unrealistic to expect Apple to charge?
I would like a tiered program, but if Apple doesn't release it, I won't hold it against them...they are trying to make money in a very difficult time. This is a premium service, and deerves to cost money.
[ 07-17-2002: Message edited by: Tulkas ]</p>
Too true. Same today. People wanted super hardware. To some degree, they got it. Kind of.
It's a shame Jaguar is being over looked in the storm of .Mac controversy.
Irony.
...because we got great software today.
Yeesh. Wasn't Seybold the traditional 'power'Mac venue anyhow?
Lemon Bon Bon
I would like a tiered program, but if Apple doesn't release it, I won't hold it against them...they are trying to make money in a very difficult time. This is a premium service, and deerves to cost money."
Amen.
Lemon Bon Bon
Now that users has to pay in order to retain that username, REFusers need to become AOL users to get access to iChat.
Apple 0-30 down...
[ 07-17-2002: Message edited by: Fluffy ]</p>