Name another company in another industry that releases sales figures.
Is that a stupid question, or am I missing the subtlety?
See my links. Many companies use shipped as sold. Even gamers have the very same discussion we do. Not many companies have the ability to know if their product was actually sold to a end user.
See my links. Many companies use shipped as sold. Even gamers have the very same discussion we do. Not many companies have the ability to know if their product was actually sold to a end user.
shipped vs sold. Who cares.
Fact is when you have TENS OF THOUSANDS of retail stores that sell your product it is virtually impossible to figure out how many units were actually sold.
Even Apple only gets sold figures from their Apple stores.
That's exactly my point. For many companies is nearly impossible to find out exactly how much of their product actually gets sold. Some products go through a plethora of middlemen before reaching the end user.
See my links. Many companies use shipped as sold. Even gamers have the very same discussion we do. Not many companies have the ability to know if their product was actually sold to a end user.
Honestly, I have no interest in, or time for, links since those would be a compete waste of time in this instance.
Your question was unambiguous: you said, ANY company in ANY industry. Not 'many.' Normally you're a careful poster. Do a mea culpa for a stupid question, and move along.
Wrong buster. Samsung's profits have been shrinking every quarter. Their profits are down about 70% from its peak. In a few quarters I would not be surprised if Samsung posts a loss on their mobile division.
On the other hand Apple's profits are up 40% YoY.
The two ships have passed each other. Samsung is going down, while Apple is going up by stealing Samsung's customers.
See my links. Many companies use shipped as sold. Even gamers have the very same discussion we do. Not many companies have the ability to know if their product was actually sold to a end user.
Honestly, I have no interest in, or time for, links since those would be a compete waste of time in this instance.
Your question was unambiguous: you said, ANY company in ANY industry. Not 'many.' Normally you're a careful poster. Do a mea culpa for a stupid question, and move along.
You're absolutely right. I should've been more careful with my wording but I'm in a debate with Sog in another thread and wanted to get back to it quickly lol.
Wrong buster. Samsung's profits have been shrinking every quarter. Their profits are down about 70% from its peak. In a few quarters I would not be surprised if Samsung posts a loss on their mobile division.
On the other hand Apple's profits are up 40% YoY.
The two ships have passed each other. Samsung is going down, while Apple is going up by stealing Samsung's customers.
You know.. A profit is a profit. At least they're not posting a loss. I think it'd be a problem if Apple didn't have a decent competitor like Samsung around. Competition breeds innovation, which is good for all of us.
You know.. A profit is a profit. At least they're not posting a loss. I think it'd be a problem if Apple didn't have a decent competitor like Samsung around. Competition breeds innovation, which is good for all of us.
"Decent" is not a word I'd use to describe Samsung.
Since this thread is about finance, here's a question (although, I'll admit, the connection is pretty tenuous): where are all our resident, doom-and-gloom Cassandras with their chicken little predictions of Armageddon now that Greece has voted 'no'? Kicking the can down the road again? How come this dog didn't bark?
Since this thread is about finance, here's a question (although, I'll admit, the connection is pretty tenuous): where are all our resident, doom-and-gloom Cassandras with their chicken little predictions of Armageddon now that Greece has voted 'no'? Kicking the can down the road again? How come this dog didn't bark?
I am not clear on what it is you are asking? Armageddon - ha ha. Did you see Greece has a new Finance minister - Euclid Tsakalotos? If he can't figure some angle to save them, nobody can.
€500 M left in the banks and withdrawals of €60 a day for individuals said to be pulling €300 M out each day. The population is going to be wanting to have more than a pea or two under their mattresses in the coming days.
Name another company in another industry that releases sales figures.
Car companies.
Video game console makers.
Video game makers.
App makers.
Coffee makers.
do i need to go on?
Aren't those numbers "sold to channels" not what ends up in user's hands?
Since many sales contracts/invoices include excess inventory buy-back clauses, the sale is a conditional sale, or just a "shipped" number.
Apple's sales declarations are the numbers that end up in user's hands. I think because of Apple's connection with the end user makes their reporting of Sales more accurate of actual product movement than some of the products you listed above.
For example Mr Coffee sells/ships 6000 coffee makers to Target. Since Mr. Coffee has no connection with the users, they cannot tell whether the coffee makers are in homes, stores, or warehouses. In order to "channel stuff" at various times during the year (Christmas, quarterly and annual reports) sales terms may get generous regarding delayed payment or restocking (send it back) options. All of these things are a form of creative marketing, which Samsung is famous for. The old argument of "when a sale is complete" comes to the fore and essentially a sale is complete and can be counted when the buyers check clears the bank. Even then, and even Apple, has to set aside a portion of profits to take care of replacing sold merchandise still under warranty...it's still a conditional liability.
Since this thread is about finance, here's a question (although, I'll admit, the connection is pretty tenuous): where are all our resident, doom-and-gloom Cassandras with their chicken little predictions of Armageddon now that Greece has voted 'no'? Kicking the can down the road again? How come this dog didn't bark?
I am not clear on what it is you are asking? Armageddon - ha ha. Did you see Greece has a new Finance minister - Euclid Tsakalotos? If he can't figure some angle to save them, nobody can.
€500 M left in the banks and withdrawals of €60 a day for individuals said to be pulling €300 M out each day. The population is going to be wanting to have more than a pea or two under their mattresses in the coming days.
Greece has also suspended all flow of money out of the country, so iTunes sales and rentals are also shut down for now. This is more of an issue to Greek customers instead of Apple which doesn't look to iTunes sales or rental of media to be a profit center.
You know.. A profit is a profit. At least they're not posting a loss. I think it'd be a problem if Apple didn't have a decent competitor like Samsung around. Competition breeds innovation, which is good for all of us.
In truth Apple does not need an outside competitor to spur innovation. Apple's real competition, who they need to beat is Apple's own products in their customer's hands. In the case if iPhones - the newer versions of the iPhones need to be so feature-rich over the older Apple products to compel the buyer to trade in/abandon/sell the old product and upgrade to the latest version of hardware. In the case of the iPhone that re-purchase rate is at two years. The iPad rate is somewhat longer, while the Mac desktop and laptop have yet again a longer rate.
I would say that Apple's trend-setting position in their markets, means that Apple influence caused Samsung to re-write their hardware and software plans due to to Apple's plans.
All the while Apple is pursuing their own plans to greatly improve their products over their own 2-year old products. Samsung is not off the radar, but it a much smaller concern.
If it ever came out that Apple's current phone lineup was being outsold by the previous generation's lineup, people would be calling for Tim Cook's head.
Different, weaker standards of success are applied to Sammy. Anytime the trolls need a quick "win."
You know.. A profit is a profit. At least they're not posting a loss. I think it'd be a problem if Apple didn't have a decent competitor like Samsung around. Competition breeds innovation, which is good for all of us.
Apple competes with itself and I'm not talking about the Sammy iClones.
In truth Apple does not need an outside competitor to spur innovation. Apple's real competition, who they need to beat is Apple's own products in their customer's hands. In the case if iPhones - the newer versions of the iPhones need to be so feature-rich over the older Apple products to compel the buyer to trade in/abandon/sell the old product and upgrade to the latest version of hardware. In the case of the iPhone that re-purchase rate is at two years. The iPad rate is somewhat longer, while the Mac desktop and laptop have yet again a longer rate.
I would say that Apple's trend-setting position in their markets, means that Apple influence caused Samsung to re-write their hardware and software plans due to to Apple's plans.
All the while Apple is pursuing their own plans to greatly improve their products over their own 2-year old products. Samsung is not off the radar, but it a much smaller concern.
Yep. The "Apple needs competition" so that it can innovate argument is complete horse-shit, for anyone who has followed Apples progress. Apples timelines and decisions usually have nothing to do with others. Was the iPod created because of "competition"? The iPhone? iPad? Touch ID? Swift? Force Touch? Apple Watch (whose development started before any smart watch was released?) 5K computers? The Mac Pro? MagSafe? Thunderbolt? A gazillion innovative software features? Not a single defining aspect of Apple products was the result of "competition", but Apples own passion to improve its products and move forward.
Nonsense, the iPhone went bigger not once, not twice but 3 times because of the competition, oh and the iPad went smaller
Apple was definitely feeling it at the height of Samsung's Next Big Thing™ campaign. Let's not forget those emails back and forth between Schiller and Apple's ad agency where Schiller admitted the board was asking him what's wrong with advertising and what he's doing to fix it.
But honestly I think it was more than advertising. It was the fact that the market wanted larger screen phones. I have no doubt that Apple prototypes all kinds of different screen sizes. So I don't think the 6 came to be only because of the competition. But I think the 6 Plus was heavily influenced by Asia and I'll bet the percentage of 6 Pluses sold there is greater than any other region.
Comments
I thought they went out of business
See my links. Many companies use shipped as sold. Even gamers have the very same discussion we do. Not many companies have the ability to know if their product was actually sold to a end user.
That's exactly my point. For many companies is nearly impossible to find out exactly how much of their product actually gets sold. Some products go through a plethora of middlemen before reaching the end user.
Honestly, I have no interest in, or time for, links since those would be a compete waste of time in this instance.
Your question was unambiguous: you said, ANY company in ANY industry. Not 'many.' Normally you're a careful poster. Do a mea culpa for a stupid question, and move along.
Wrong buster. Samsung's profits have been shrinking every quarter. Their profits are down about 70% from its peak. In a few quarters I would not be surprised if Samsung posts a loss on their mobile division.
On the other hand Apple's profits are up 40% YoY.
The two ships have passed each other. Samsung is going down, while Apple is going up by stealing Samsung's customers.
Also stealing Android customers from everyone.
You're absolutely right. I should've been more careful with my wording but I'm in a debate with Sog in another thread and wanted to get back to it quickly lol.
That's not anything to brag about
You know.. A profit is a profit. At least they're not posting a loss. I think it'd be a problem if Apple didn't have a decent competitor like Samsung around. Competition breeds innovation, which is good for all of us.
"Decent" is not a word I'd use to describe Samsung.
Since this thread is about finance, here's a question (although, I'll admit, the connection is pretty tenuous): where are all our resident, doom-and-gloom Cassandras with their chicken little predictions of Armageddon now that Greece has voted 'no'? Kicking the can down the road again? How come this dog didn't bark?
I am not clear on what it is you are asking? Armageddon - ha ha. Did you see Greece has a new Finance minister - Euclid Tsakalotos? If he can't figure some angle to save them, nobody can.
€500 M left in the banks and withdrawals of €60 a day for individuals said to be pulling €300 M out each day. The population is going to be wanting to have more than a pea or two under their mattresses in the coming days.
Aren't those numbers "sold to channels" not what ends up in user's hands?
Since many sales contracts/invoices include excess inventory buy-back clauses, the sale is a conditional sale, or just a "shipped" number.
Apple's sales declarations are the numbers that end up in user's hands. I think because of Apple's connection with the end user makes their reporting of Sales more accurate of actual product movement than some of the products you listed above.
For example Mr Coffee sells/ships 6000 coffee makers to Target. Since Mr. Coffee has no connection with the users, they cannot tell whether the coffee makers are in homes, stores, or warehouses. In order to "channel stuff" at various times during the year (Christmas, quarterly and annual reports) sales terms may get generous regarding delayed payment or restocking (send it back) options. All of these things are a form of creative marketing, which Samsung is famous for. The old argument of "when a sale is complete" comes to the fore and essentially a sale is complete and can be counted when the buyers check clears the bank. Even then, and even Apple, has to set aside a portion of profits to take care of replacing sold merchandise still under warranty...it's still a conditional liability.
Greece has also suspended all flow of money out of the country, so iTunes sales and rentals are also shut down for now. This is more of an issue to Greek customers instead of Apple which doesn't look to iTunes sales or rental of media to be a profit center.
In truth Apple does not need an outside competitor to spur innovation. Apple's real competition, who they need to beat is Apple's own products in their customer's hands. In the case if iPhones - the newer versions of the iPhones need to be so feature-rich over the older Apple products to compel the buyer to trade in/abandon/sell the old product and upgrade to the latest version of hardware. In the case of the iPhone that re-purchase rate is at two years. The iPad rate is somewhat longer, while the Mac desktop and laptop have yet again a longer rate.
I would say that Apple's trend-setting position in their markets, means that Apple influence caused Samsung to re-write their hardware and software plans due to to Apple's plans.
All the while Apple is pursuing their own plans to greatly improve their products over their own 2-year old products. Samsung is not off the radar, but it a much smaller concern.
Different, weaker standards of success are applied to Sammy. Anytime the trolls need a quick "win."
Just because Cook quotes them doesn't mean they're accurate. It is just that IDC is known and the lack of a better alternative.
Apple competes with itself and I'm not talking about the Sammy iClones.
Yep. The "Apple needs competition" so that it can innovate argument is complete horse-shit, for anyone who has followed Apples progress. Apples timelines and decisions usually have nothing to do with others. Was the iPod created because of "competition"? The iPhone? iPad? Touch ID? Swift? Force Touch? Apple Watch (whose development started before any smart watch was released?) 5K computers? The Mac Pro? MagSafe? Thunderbolt? A gazillion innovative software features? Not a single defining aspect of Apple products was the result of "competition", but Apples own passion to improve its products and move forward.
Nonsense, the iPhone went bigger not once, not twice but 3 times because of the competition, oh and the iPad went smaller
Apple was definitely feeling it at the height of Samsung's Next Big Thing™ campaign. Let's not forget those emails back and forth between Schiller and Apple's ad agency where Schiller admitted the board was asking him what's wrong with advertising and what he's doing to fix it.
http://www.businessinsider.com/phil-schiller-emails-2014-4
But honestly I think it was more than advertising. It was the fact that the market wanted larger screen phones. I have no doubt that Apple prototypes all kinds of different screen sizes. So I don't think the 6 came to be only because of the competition. But I think the 6 Plus was heavily influenced by Asia and I'll bet the percentage of 6 Pluses sold there is greater than any other region.