In other news, pencil manufacturers are held liable for providing instruments to terrorists that aid them in bypassing electronic communications.
"Legal experts"', totally full of shit. Suggestion, to all those earning the BILLIONS of dollars being spent on national security and anti-terrorism, do your jobs with the resources you have!
…because they have read and understand what the Quran says.
You must have a low bar when it comes to recognizing what is going on.
First, chronic terrorism has occurred many places in the world without a link to Islam, so simply saying Islam causes it is ridiculous. If you want to say fundamentalism (in any religion) can increase the chances of terrorism you would be correct. Fundamentalism in every major religion has been associated with periods of violence. But every major religion (including Islam) has also been associated with places and periods of peace and tolerance. So religion can be a factor but is never the sole cause.
Tellingly, Middle East terrorism is obviously associated with many of the factors associated with terrorism in non-Islam parts of the world:
* Extreme rich/poor divide
* Repressive governments propped up by more powerful countries
* Political boundaries set up by external powers that don't match local ethnic boundaries
The first above isn't the fault of the US and other western countries. But extreme rich/poor divides by themselves are usually only associated with local violence.
But the second two have been associated with terrorism in many other places. And the last century of Middle Eastern history is a laundry list of western countries dictating borders, propping up repressive regimes, etc. It should not surprise you that kind of interference leads to deep frustration and hate.
And the final cause, is that once there are real reasons for frustration, without some major effort to correct those frustrations they can snowball. Legitimately frustrated powerless people fight back with one of their few options to be heard, terrorism. More powerful regimes suppress them with the viewpoint they are just responding to the violence, but inevitably harm civilians and ignore the original reasons of frustration. Now there are two sides with more grievances, and so the violence continues.
The point: Solving terrorism in the Middle East, like anywhere else, requires a lot more insight than "the Islam did it".
Executive Summary: There is always another non-American piece of encryption software, not under US control, that the bad guys can turn to. To paraphrase the gun lobby: "If they take away encryption, only the bad guys will have encryption."
"Lawyers and neocons unite in scaremongering American firms to make your electronic devices less secure. How lovely."
The problem is actually much bigger. Our laws are complex, at times conflicting and when you add it prosecutors and judges who can take laws written a long time ago and twist them to try and find a legal way to pursue their case, who knows how this could work out. Worse, our SC is loaded with judges who are driven by politics (on both sides, not just the left or right) and at times seem to be outright crazy (jiggery pokery and applesauce anyone?) and to top it all out, there is a secret FISA court who seem to be able to make rulings that no one knows about or do anything about even if they do, overseen exclusively by Justice Roberts. And while we love to talk about freedom in the US, it is only because it is relative to the worst of the worse like North Korea, Iran, China or Saudi Arabia.
I remember your post history. You're busted. You don't get to make off-topic gay jokes without someone pointing out that you must be talking about yourself without knowing it. Maybe if you were openly gay yourself you could get away with it, but then you wouldn't be making that "joke" then, would you?
I didn't report you. I doubt if anyone else did either. You're crying because you have to wise up.
Unbelievable! You seriously think my post the mods deleted was an off topic gay joke? You are sorely mistaken. This article is about terrorism. ISIS = terrorism. I added the gay part because there would never be an openly gay member of ISIS just like Apple would never be liable for supporting terrorism. Maybe you haven't seen the news to see what ISIS does to gay people.
I've never made an off topic gay joke so I don't know what post history you are talking about.
Yes, if that future is a life in service to Muhammad.
Yep. We’ve seen it.
I love how the only rebuttal these people have is “go see the world” as though that 1. matters 2. will do anything but reenforce what is already being said 3. is safe in any way.
So… mussulman countries, yes.
Check the context, then.
…because they have read and understand what the Quran says.
There is all sorts of wrong with your comments, but it's not uncommon. You know that more Americans are killed by "white people", right? Of those, most identify with or were raised as Christian.
You're an American who has been bombarded with bigotry and ignorance for so long that it can be hard to separate real news from sensational media. I would guess you never classified John Houser (the Layfeyette theater shooter) as a terrorist, and yet that's exactly what he is and he would have labeled as such buy the media instead of just a guy with mental problems had he been Middle Eastern or Islamic.
It is very funny. Germany has the strongest privacy laws that Germany require FaceBook to allow anonymous names. Yet terrorists never strike Germany.
If the suspect is already under surveillance why tens of thousands of FBI employees can not be used? The truth is the government is putting a huger number of Americans under surveillance. The government is already out of hands. So it needs to use high tech to finish the work. Is this 1984 precursor?
Our laws are complex, at times conflicting and when you add it prosecutors and judges who can take laws written a long time ago and twist them to try and find a legal way to pursue their case, who knows how this could work out.
Fortunately, there are trained professionals that can assist an individual in understanding their obligations. However, there may be a fee for such assistance. I think I heard someone once say that Freedom isn't free. YMMV.
Twist the facts and you can make any legal action sound good. There is one big fact we all know and that Apple is about protecting our privacy, not providing ways to support terrorists period.
…because they have read and understand what the Quran says.
You must have a low bar when it comes to recognizing what is going on.
First, chronic terrorism has occurred many places in the world without a link to Islam, so simply saying Islam causes it is ridiculous. If you want to say fundamentalism (in any religion) can increase the chances of terrorism you would be correct. Fundamentalism in every major religion has been associated with periods of violence. But every major religion (including Islam) has also been associated with places and periods of peace and tolerance. So religion can be a factor but is never the sole cause.
Tellingly, Middle East terrorism is obviously associated with many of the factors associated with terrorism in non-Islam parts of the world:
* Extreme rich/poor divide
* Repressive governments propped up by more powerful countries
* Political boundaries set up by external powers that don't match local ethnic boundaries
The first above isn't the fault of the US and other western countries. But extreme rich/poor divides by themselves are usually only associated with local violence.
But the second two have been associated with terrorism in many other places. And the last century of Middle Eastern history is a laundry list of western countries dictating borders, propping up repressive regimes, etc. It should not surprise you that kind of interference leads to deep frustration and hate.
And the final cause, is that once there are real reasons for frustration, without some major effort to correct those frustrations they can snowball. Legitimately frustrated powerless people fight back with one of their few options to be heard, terrorism. More powerful regimes suppress them with the viewpoint they are just responding to the violence, but inevitably harm civilians and ignore the original reasons of frustration. Now there are two sides with more grievances, and so the violence continues.
The point: Solving terrorism in the Middle East, like anywhere else, requires a lot more insight than "the Islam did it".
Well said!
It is sometimes odd how things turn out ...
For example, today, much of the terrorism in the Middle East concerns the ethnicity and religions of the combatants -- as well as the rather arbitrary setting of borders by outsiders.
I am referring to the UN and the Palestine Partition post WWII -- which, among other things, resulted in the establishment of the State of Israel.
It is interesting that the USA voted against, while the Soviet Union voted for the establishment of the State of Israel,
The cuckservative tag has gone viral. How apropos. You'd have to be ideologically and intellectually bankrupt to support the removal of safeguards for "muh war on terror"
Only a government without the peoples' best interests in mind is scared of the people.
Millions of hollow points bought under Obama, absurd levels of surveillance and agitating to remove encryption... To fight terror.
If they really wanted to fight terror.... Even the shittiest of WWI era armies could have obliterated the "terror threat" and yet the strongest military in the world just kept things status quo for 10 years.
Instead, they want to know how often you order pizza and see the nudes your girlfriend sends you.
They have the same pathological world view as the copyright trolls. Make pirating impossible and somehow people will start paying for shit tier content. Make communications unsecure and "terrorists" will continue to divulge their plans over iMessage.
Thanks, but doesn't change anything. An implosion system is designed to achieve a critical mass, but the result of achieving criticality is a radiation-pressure-driven explosion. Critical masses do not implode.
Yes, if that future is a life in service to Muhammad.
Yep. We’ve seen it.
I love how the only rebuttal these people have is “go see the world” as though that 1. matters 2. will do anything but reenforce what is already being said 3. is safe in any way.
So… mussulman countries, yes.
Check the context, then.
…because they have read and understand what the Quran says.
- I have read the Quran front to cover dozens of times, I definitely "understand" what it says (infinitely more than you, the xenophobic hatemongers, or the infinitesemaly tiny percentage of "Muslims" who claim it as a reason for their violent/criminal acts). You're the ultimate hypocrite, when you pick and choose when you want to take what these terrorists say at face value. I have a feeling you only do it when people claim they are "following the Quran", but scoff when the reason is something else, in which case you will chalk it up to "mental health" (ie. confederate flag)
- "Mussulman countries". The correct word is "Muslim" countries. I don't expect much knowledge from you on these subjects, but the fact that you can't get such a mind-numbingly basic term that is repeated countless times right shows how little you care about anything approaching fact.
- It's so embarrassing for you, how you mock and deride the value of travelling, claiming that it doesn't "matter" and that it isn't "safe". For anyone with an ounce of sense and insight, the value of experiencing different cultures, lifestyles, mentalities, perspectives, norms, etc is utterly obvious, in terms of expanding one's understanding of the world and it's people. No one is asking you to go to Syria or Iraq. Of course, this is the response one would expect from a xenophobe who believes they can learn everything they need to know about the world following some blogs of a specific ideology from their basement without leaving their "safe" town.
How dare you smear almost 2 Billion Muslims in every part of the globe, claiming that they're simply terrorists in the making if "they follow the Quran". Maybe focus less on your post count, and get out of your house, get some fresh air, and you might *shudder* actually bump into a real life Muslim- and find out they're a normal human being just like you instead of the ridiculous caricatures you've concocted. But I know that's asking too much from someone like you, clearly. I pity you, honestly, because you will likely live your entire natural lifespan in a cesspool of ignorance and fear.
Any mass can become a black hole if it collapses down to the Schwarzschild radius - but if a mass is over some critical value between 2 and 3 solar masses and has no fusion process to keep it from collapsing, then gravitational forces alone make the collapse to a black hole inevitable.
Different use of the term "critical mass" - gravitation as opposed to neutronics. The OP was clearly referring to the latter.
I'm certainly not suggesting Apple should be charged with supporting terrorism, but I am here to suggest that strong encryption has, potentially, severe consequences. The reason why many of you are nonchalant about it is that it hasn't effected you personally.
Let's take this imaginary scenario as an example...a "lone wolf" in NYC is able to hide his plans using the strong encryption in iMessage and detonates a bomb on the subway, and you lose a family member. Would you still feel so strongly about encryption and privacy? I bet not. I know I wouldn't.
Again, not pointing fingers at anyone. Just suggesting that we should look at all aspects of the privacy debate.
That's hogwash. What if the terrorists are using Vpn to access a "terrorist network". Are networking companies liable for that?
The gov can collect unencrypted data but they shouldn't be allowed to just access encrypted data with a backdoor.
Maybe I'm missing something here, but why on earth is anyone giving credence to entirely unsubstantiated claims being spun up in these paranoid blogs. There is no reason to believe that any of this bears any relation to actual policy, past, present or future.
At some point I'm hoping the stupid reaches critical mass and implodes.
Critical masses explode. But I second the basic concept.
Depends what kind of critical mass...
...when the mass becomes big enough it'll implode into a black hole. That's how stupid needs to go, not by spewing radioactive fallout all over the place, which is what would happen in the explosion case
- I have read the Quran front to cover dozens of times, I definitely "understand" what it says (infinitely more than you, the xenophobic hatemongers, or the infinitesemaly tiny percentage of "Muslims" who claim it as a reason for their violent/criminal acts). You're the ultimate hypocrite, when you pick and choose when you want to take what these terrorists say at face value. I have a feeling you only do it when people claim they are "following the Quran", but scoff when the reason is something else, in which case you will chalk it up to "mental health" (ie. confederate flag)
- "Mussulman countries". The correct word is "Muslim" countries. I don't expect much knowledge from you on these subjects, but the fact that you can't get such a mind-numbingly basic term that is repeated countless times right shows how little you care about anything approaching fact.
- It's so embarrassing for you, how you mock and deride the value of travelling, claiming that it doesn't "matter" and that it isn't "safe". For anyone with an ounce of sense and insight, the value of experiencing different cultures, lifestyles, mentalities, perspectives, norms, etc is utterly obvious, in terms of expanding one's understanding of the world and it's people. No one is asking you to go to Syria or Iraq. Of course, this is the response one would expect from a xenophobe who believes they can learn everything they need to know about the world following some blogs of a specific ideology from their basement without leaving their "safe" town.
How dare you smear almost 2 Billion Muslims in every part of the globe, claiming that they're simply terrorists in the making if "they follow the Quran". Maybe focus less on your post count, and get out of your house, get some fresh air, and you might *shudder* actually bump into a real life Muslim- and find out they're a normal human being just like you instead of the ridiculous caricatures you've concocted. But I know that's asking too much from someone like you, clearly. I pity you, honestly, because you will likely live your entire natural lifespan in a cesspool of ignorance and fear.
Top kek
Your points would hold more water is Islam weren't responsible for incalculable atrocities.
Mass genocide, eradication of culture, destruction of repositories of human knowledge that set humanity back 1000 years.
Don't shoot the messengers people. As a lawyer and a reader of Lawfare they are pointing out the current state of the law and how it could apply to a hypothetical case. There are plenty of organizations like EFF that can challenge the law in question if it makes sense.
Comments
"Legal experts"', totally full of shit. Suggestion, to all those earning the BILLIONS of dollars being spent on national security and anti-terrorism, do your jobs with the resources you have!
…because they have read and understand what the Quran says.
You must have a low bar when it comes to recognizing what is going on.
First, chronic terrorism has occurred many places in the world without a link to Islam, so simply saying Islam causes it is ridiculous. If you want to say fundamentalism (in any religion) can increase the chances of terrorism you would be correct. Fundamentalism in every major religion has been associated with periods of violence. But every major religion (including Islam) has also been associated with places and periods of peace and tolerance. So religion can be a factor but is never the sole cause.
Tellingly, Middle East terrorism is obviously associated with many of the factors associated with terrorism in non-Islam parts of the world:
* Extreme rich/poor divide
* Repressive governments propped up by more powerful countries
* Political boundaries set up by external powers that don't match local ethnic boundaries
The first above isn't the fault of the US and other western countries. But extreme rich/poor divides by themselves are usually only associated with local violence.
But the second two have been associated with terrorism in many other places. And the last century of Middle Eastern history is a laundry list of western countries dictating borders, propping up repressive regimes, etc. It should not surprise you that kind of interference leads to deep frustration and hate.
And the final cause, is that once there are real reasons for frustration, without some major effort to correct those frustrations they can snowball. Legitimately frustrated powerless people fight back with one of their few options to be heard, terrorism. More powerful regimes suppress them with the viewpoint they are just responding to the violence, but inevitably harm civilians and ignore the original reasons of frustration. Now there are two sides with more grievances, and so the violence continues.
The point: Solving terrorism in the Middle East, like anywhere else, requires a lot more insight than "the Islam did it".
https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2015/07/back_doors_wont.html
Executive Summary: There is always another non-American piece of encryption software, not under US control, that the bad guys can turn to. To paraphrase the gun lobby: "If they take away encryption, only the bad guys will have encryption."
"Lawyers and neocons unite in scaremongering American firms to make your electronic devices less secure. How lovely."
The problem is actually much bigger. Our laws are complex, at times conflicting and when you add it prosecutors and judges who can take laws written a long time ago and twist them to try and find a legal way to pursue their case, who knows how this could work out. Worse, our SC is loaded with judges who are driven by politics (on both sides, not just the left or right) and at times seem to be outright crazy (jiggery pokery and applesauce anyone?) and to top it all out, there is a secret FISA court who seem to be able to make rulings that no one knows about or do anything about even if they do, overseen exclusively by Justice Roberts. And while we love to talk about freedom in the US, it is only because it is relative to the worst of the worse like North Korea, Iran, China or Saudi Arabia.
I remember your post history. You're busted. You don't get to make off-topic gay jokes without someone pointing out that you must be talking about yourself without knowing it. Maybe if you were openly gay yourself you could get away with it, but then you wouldn't be making that "joke" then, would you?
I didn't report you. I doubt if anyone else did either. You're crying because you have to wise up.
Unbelievable! You seriously think my post the mods deleted was an off topic gay joke? You are sorely mistaken. This article is about terrorism. ISIS = terrorism. I added the gay part because there would never be an openly gay member of ISIS just like Apple would never be liable for supporting terrorism. Maybe you haven't seen the news to see what ISIS does to gay people.
I've never made an off topic gay joke so I don't know what post history you are talking about.
There is all sorts of wrong with your comments, but it's not uncommon. You know that more Americans are killed by "white people", right? Of those, most identify with or were raised as Christian.
You're an American who has been bombarded with bigotry and ignorance for so long that it can be hard to separate real news from sensational media. I would guess you never classified John Houser (the Layfeyette theater shooter) as a terrorist, and yet that's exactly what he is and he would have labeled as such buy the media instead of just a guy with mental problems had he been Middle Eastern or Islamic.
It is very funny. Germany has the strongest privacy laws that Germany require FaceBook to allow anonymous names. Yet terrorists never strike Germany.
If the suspect is already under surveillance why tens of thousands of FBI employees can not be used? The truth is the government is putting a huger number of Americans under surveillance. The government is already out of hands. So it needs to use high tech to finish the work. Is this 1984 precursor?
Our laws are complex, at times conflicting and when you add it prosecutors and judges who can take laws written a long time ago and twist them to try and find a legal way to pursue their case, who knows how this could work out.
Fortunately, there are trained professionals that can assist an individual in understanding their obligations. However, there may be a fee for such assistance. I think I heard someone once say that Freedom isn't free. YMMV.
Well said!
It is sometimes odd how things turn out ...
For example, today, much of the terrorism in the Middle East concerns the ethnicity and religions of the combatants -- as well as the rather arbitrary setting of borders by outsiders.
I am referring to the UN and the Palestine Partition post WWII -- which, among other things, resulted in the establishment of the State of Israel.
It is interesting that the USA voted against, while the Soviet Union voted for the establishment of the State of Israel,
How times change!
Only a government without the peoples' best interests in mind is scared of the people.
Millions of hollow points bought under Obama, absurd levels of surveillance and agitating to remove encryption... To fight terror.
If they really wanted to fight terror.... Even the shittiest of WWI era armies could have obliterated the "terror threat" and yet the strongest military in the world just kept things status quo for 10 years.
Instead, they want to know how often you order pizza and see the nudes your girlfriend sends you.
They have the same pathological world view as the copyright trolls. Make pirating impossible and somehow people will start paying for shit tier content. Make communications unsecure and "terrorists" will continue to divulge their plans over iMessage.
Fucking lol
At some point I'm hoping the stupid reaches critical mass and implodes.
Critical masses explode. But I second the basic concept.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_mass
Thanks, but doesn't change anything. An implosion system is designed to achieve a critical mass, but the result of achieving criticality is a radiation-pressure-driven explosion. Critical masses do not implode.
These days? Followers of Muhammad.
Yes, if that future is a life in service to Muhammad.
Yep. We’ve seen it.
I love how the only rebuttal these people have is “go see the world” as though that 1. matters 2. will do anything but reenforce what is already being said 3. is safe in any way.
So… mussulman countries, yes.
Check the context, then.
…because they have read and understand what the Quran says.
- I have read the Quran front to cover dozens of times, I definitely "understand" what it says (infinitely more than you, the xenophobic hatemongers, or the infinitesemaly tiny percentage of "Muslims" who claim it as a reason for their violent/criminal acts). You're the ultimate hypocrite, when you pick and choose when you want to take what these terrorists say at face value. I have a feeling you only do it when people claim they are "following the Quran", but scoff when the reason is something else, in which case you will chalk it up to "mental health" (ie. confederate flag)
- "Mussulman countries". The correct word is "Muslim" countries. I don't expect much knowledge from you on these subjects, but the fact that you can't get such a mind-numbingly basic term that is repeated countless times right shows how little you care about anything approaching fact.
- It's so embarrassing for you, how you mock and deride the value of travelling, claiming that it doesn't "matter" and that it isn't "safe". For anyone with an ounce of sense and insight, the value of experiencing different cultures, lifestyles, mentalities, perspectives, norms, etc is utterly obvious, in terms of expanding one's understanding of the world and it's people. No one is asking you to go to Syria or Iraq. Of course, this is the response one would expect from a xenophobe who believes they can learn everything they need to know about the world following some blogs of a specific ideology from their basement without leaving their "safe" town.
How dare you smear almost 2 Billion Muslims in every part of the globe, claiming that they're simply terrorists in the making if "they follow the Quran". Maybe focus less on your post count, and get out of your house, get some fresh air, and you might *shudder* actually bump into a real life Muslim- and find out they're a normal human being just like you instead of the ridiculous caricatures you've concocted. But I know that's asking too much from someone like you, clearly. I pity you, honestly, because you will likely live your entire natural lifespan in a cesspool of ignorance and fear.
Critical masses explode.
The world is bigger than you might think.
Different use of the term "critical mass" - gravitation as opposed to neutronics. The OP was clearly referring to the latter.
That's hogwash. What if the terrorists are using Vpn to access a "terrorist network". Are networking companies liable for that?
The gov can collect unencrypted data but they shouldn't be allowed to just access encrypted data with a backdoor.
Maybe I'm missing something here, but why on earth is anyone giving credence to entirely unsubstantiated claims being spun up in these paranoid blogs. There is no reason to believe that any of this bears any relation to actual policy, past, present or future.
...when the mass becomes big enough it'll implode into a black hole. That's how stupid needs to go, not by spewing radioactive fallout all over the place, which is what would happen in the explosion case
Top kek
Your points would hold more water is Islam weren't responsible for incalculable atrocities.
Mass genocide, eradication of culture, destruction of repositories of human knowledge that set humanity back 1000 years.
Religion of peace, sure.
1) Islam is responsible for the actions of Man as much as Christiainity is telson single for a lynching in Alabama.
2) Islam is now the only religion with with radicals that have committed atrocities? :no: