The market right now sees Apple as a one trick pony, as a shareholder thats all that matters to me. I invest in Apple based on how they are seen not how I like them to be seen. Stock dropped today because Apple lost the top spot in china, Xiaomi taking the top spot. I like Apple for two reasons I like the products they make and I like the money I make off them. As soon as those two factors don't suit my needs my love for them ends on a dime.
When I look at where Apple is earning their most money, the iPhone stands out by far. So, in that sense Apple can be called a one trick pony.
However that ignores how Apple products are designed to work together to enhance each other's appeal and marketability. Blackberry doesn't have that portfolio, nor do they have the ecosystem that Apple developed to make the sum of the parts equal a bigger whole. Blackberry much better fits your "one trick pony" label.
The app store and the music store bring in money... but not a lot compared to the iPhone. Yet these stores make the iPhone (and the iPad) a better value proposition. A bean counter. focused on how little these stores add to the bottom line, could easily want to sell off or close these assets. And that's the problem with viewing Apple narrowly as a "one trick pony."
I might also add that Apple is not letting themselves rest on the iPhone. Apple does not see themselves as a HW phone company any more then they thought they were an iPod company when that product was their main source of income, Apple is a technology company foremost and are actively looking for ways to extend into other product areas.
Finally, on this site, you will encounter a lot of enthusiasts regarding Apple and its products. These proponents who irritate you so are the main reason Apple is alive today. They are the kinds of fans of Apple that stuck by the company when it was struggling and truly love the company. No other company I know of has the kind of loyal users/customers Apple enjoys. How much do you think that customer base is worth? I suspect Samsung, who spent 13 billion USD one year in advertising and ended up with few loyal customers, would value Apple's loyal base very high. Much more than 13 billion dollars.
The market right now sees Apple as a one trick pony, as a shareholder thats all that matters to me. I invest in Apple based on how they are seen not how I like them to be seen. Stock dropped today because Apple lost the top spot in china, Xiaomi taking the top spot. I like Apple for two reasons I like the products they make and I like the money I make off them. As soon as those two factors don't suit my needs my love for them ends on a dime.
And that what wrong with analysts and investors. Apple fell in rankings even though the other companies haven't reported real numbers. Apple's financials also show Apple growing fast in China. So who to believe? An actual financial statement with extreme consequences if they were lying? Or a report based on guesstimates with no consequences if they are wrong.
And that what wrong with analysts and investors. Apple fell in rankings even though the other companies haven't reported real numbers. Apple's financials also show Apple growing fast in China. So who to believe? An actual financial statement with extreme consequences if they were lying? Or a report based on guesstimates with no consequences if they are wrong.
Does it really matter all that much if you can quote facts to prove Apple should be valued higher? Not really IMHO. All the facts in the world won't make it happen if the perception isn't there. Lie or no lie, facts or no facts, the market is going to move in ways that may not sound at all rational to investors. Perception is the key.
When I can't make sense of something I don't invest in it. But that's me.
When I can't make sense of something I don't invest in it. But that's me.
Makes great sense, Warren Buffet said much the same. During the .com boom I was asked why I did not jump when offered to go to a .com company "with significant upside" and I just told them I cannot see where they come out the other side profitable.... so I am quite happy as a salaryman right now (consultant). One of my other co-workers jumped at the offer... and it was not but a few months later that they laid off 90% of their staff, had armed guards protecting against potential backlash... and my friend still employed calling because he was completely stressed out with the situation.
The weakness in Apple stock right now is mostly about market gyration worries and the Chinese market (which is a driver for growth right now). Short term I think it will be weak, but I still see it coming back strong again after things settle down and they realize that the market was still there in China - just the financial markets have to correct big time.
The weakness in Apple stock right now is mostly about market gyration worries and the Chinese market (which is a driver for growth right now). Short term I think it will be weak, but I still see it coming back strong again after things settle down and they realize that the market was still there in China - just the financial markets have to correct big time.
I attribute it all to Uranus squaring Pluto. Clearly Pluto is in ascension, which means we have entered a period of transformation.
Why? Because I have an opinion that isn't raving fanboy? Considering I've been buying Apple (and NeXT) products for over 30 years, make my living on Macs, have switched several companies to Macs over the years, and have never owned a PC...I hardly think I'm a troll. I'm willing to bet I've contributed more to Apple's bottom line than 90%+ of the people posting here. But heaven forbid I have a difference of opinion about something!
Why? Because I have an opinion that isn't raving fanboy? Considering I've been buying Apple (and NeXT) products for over 30 years, make my living on Macs, have switched several companies to Macs over the years, and have never owned a PC...I hardly think I'm a troll. I'm willing to bet I've contributed more to Apple's bottom line than 90%+ of the people posting here. But heaven forbid I have a difference of opinion about something!
Although I am not an iWatch fan, or any watch fan.... there obviously is a market for them. It has to be taken as an iPhone accessory since it is not a stand alone product -- but you really have to have a warped view to say it is not a success so far. It is selling above expectations, above what people thought was possible only months before release.... by far.... it outsold the entire market up until that point in a matter of days clobbering competitors. Will it have the iPhone's lasting power? who knows. But given the reviews I have seen from people that have tried it out for a month and the fact that they really do miss it when they don't wear it... my guess is that it will continue selling fairly well.... but I will never buy one.
Although I am not an iWatch fan, or any watch fan.... there obviously is a market for them. It has to be taken as an iPhone accessory since it is not a stand alone product -- but you really have to have a warped view to say it is not a success so far. It is selling above expectations, above what people thought was possible only months before release.... by far.... it outsold the entire market up until that point in a matter of days clobbering competitors. Will it have the iPhone's lasting power? who knows. But given the reviews I have seen from people that have tried it out for a month and the fact that they really do miss it when they don't wear it... my guess is that it will continue selling fairly well.... but I will never buy one.
It was the name given in the trade press leading up to it's release.... I still call it the iWatch.... don't really care what it is officially called... "most" people won't be so dense that they cannot figure out what is being talked about
It was the name given in the trade press leading up to it's release.... I still call it the iWatch.... don't really care what it is officially called... "most" people won't be so dense that they cannot figure out what is being talked about
Although I am not an iWatch fan, or any watch fan.... there obviously is a market for them. It has to be taken as an iPhone accessory since it is not a stand alone product -- but you really have to have a warped view to say it is not a success so far. It is selling above expectations, above what people thought was possible only months before release.... by far.... it outsold the entire market up until that point in a matter of days clobbering competitors. Will it have the iPhone's lasting power? who knows. But given the reviews I have seen from people that have tried it out for a month and the fact that they really do miss it when they don't wear it... my guess is that it will continue selling fairly well.... but I will never buy one.
I can't agree with your assessment of the market. What I see is a few million Apple super fans who were chomping at the bit to buy *anything* new from their beloved company. That does not a market make. Let's give Apple the benefit of the doubt and say they sold 3 million units. How many compatible iPhones are out there? 200 million? 300 million? That's pretty weak when you consider the market potential. Perhaps Apple with convince the general iPhone-loving public that they need the Watch too, but I don't see that happening. I think the faithful got their new gadget, but the general public is decidedly not interested. Of course, a year from now I might be eating my words...but I don't think so.
Oh and using ?Pay with the Watch is freaking awesome. And will be even more awesome when more places are using NFC readers.
And more vendors accept ?Pay. That's likely going to be the thing that takes the longest, getting all the retailers onboard with ?Pay. And don't think every retailer will be switching to NFC compatible readers in October. That's likely going to take a year to convert everyone over, depending on how fast the banks can get their chip cards rolled out. But big box retailers and big franchises will all likely be converted.
I will be very interested to see if Apple ever licenses ?Pay technology to third parties. There's no reason the convenience ?Watch offers for making mobile payments can't be included in any number of wearables. As long as that's not the primary reason people are using the ?Watch, I can't see any reason why Apple wouldn't want to earn a cut of mobile payments by every device in existence.
Battery life will continue to improve in all mobile devices, so that's really a non-issue. Not sure why people keep bringing it up. Battery life matters to some, and not to others. Eventually it will satisfy most. And of course as you point out, and has been pointed out numerous times by many people since the watch arrived, the battery life is satisfactory, indeed much better than even Apple suggested with normal use for most people.
I can't agree with your assessment of the market. What I see is a few million Apple super fans who were chomping at the bit to buy *anything* new from their beloved company. That does not a market make. Let's give Apple the benefit of the doubt and say they sold 3 million units. How many compatible iPhones are out there? 200 million? 300 million? That's pretty weak when you consider the market potential. Perhaps Apple with convince the general iPhone-loving public that they need the Watch too, but I don't see that happening. I think the faithful got their new gadget, but the general public is decidedly not interested. Of course, a year from now I might be eating my words...but I don't think so.
Are you kidding me with this shit?
How many people are in the world? 7-8 billion? Apple "only" sold 48 MM iPhones in the last quarter. That's pretty week considering the potential market. That's less than 1%. Apple is doomed!
And more vendors accept ?Pay. That's likely going to be the thing that takes the longest, getting all the retailers onboard with ?Pay. And don't think every retailer will be switching to NFC compatible readers in October. That's likely going to take a year to convert everyone over, depending on how fast the banks can get their chip cards rolled out. But big box retailers and big franchises will all likely be converted.
I will be very interested to see if Apple ever licenses ?Pay technology to third parties. There's no reason the convenience ?Watch offers for making mobile payments can't be included in any number of wearables. As long as that's not the primary reason people are using the ?Watch, I can't see any reason why Apple wouldn't want to earn a cut of mobile payments by every device in existence.
Battery life will continue to improve in all mobile devices, so that's really a non-issue. Not sure why people keep bringing it up. Battery life matters to some, and not to others. Eventually it will satisfy most. And of course as you point out, and has been pointed out numerous times by many people since the watch arrived, the battery life is satisfactory, indeed much better than even Apple suggested with normal use for most people.
1) That's surprising pro-Apple of you.
2) I don't think Apple needs to license anything. At most, I tnink they may simply have a time-based exclusivity in palace, but even that I don't think would be advantageous, especially with Cook at the helm.
The backend changes for the banks and multinationals isn't anything Apple can really "protect" from others, and everything on the retailer end is just accepting NFC-based payments. Perhaps there is mobile device patents they are unique that could be licensed, but since we're talking about a safer way to do payments at best, I think, Apple can only hope for is licensing the method in which its stored on the device, and I'm not seeing anything that can't be argued as being both required and just a brilliant combination of things hat existed in various half-ass forms.
With the info I have, if I were in charge of Apple, I would want everyone to get onboard with this same solution, which seems to be exactly what Google will be doing with Apple Pay. If Apple does decide to put the kibosh on other attempts as convenient and secure mile payments it may help get some sales from a few people that want that feature but I feel it would do more harm since this is an issue to all people, especially with identity theft on the rise as we get more and more connected to the world, that I'd want the world's most successful company to want this for all people, not try to keep it out of the hands of so many.
How many people are in the world? 7-8 billion? Apple "only" sold 48 MM iPhones in the last quarter. That's pretty week considering the potential market. That's less than 1%. Apple is doomed!
Apple fans aren't lemmings. Don't patronize us.
How many machines had iTunes installed in the Summer of 2007, and yet iPhone sales were worse in that same 9 week span… and I keep being told how Watch is useless, unlike the iPhone. I bet those pooh poohing Watch were also disparaging the iPhone and iPad when they launched.
I can't agree with your assessment of the market. What I see is a few million Apple super fans who were chomping at the bit to buy *anything* new from their beloved company. That does not a market make.
Now add the few million Apple fans who wait and see how a new product proves its usefulness over the first year or two, and those considerably less than few million who wait for the second generation, and then add the millions of not-quite-Apple "fans" who'll buy one for Christmas, and then the millions and millions of not-quite Apple "fans" who just buy stuff they see others happy with and that they consider beautiful, and suddenly — hey presto! — you've got a market.
How many machines had iTunes installed in the Summer of 2007, and yet iPhone sales were worse in that same 9 week span… and I keep being told how Watch is useless, unlike the iPhone. I bet those pooh poohing Watch were also disparaging the iPhone and iPad when they launched.
All of this comparing one product launch to another is utterly pointless. A lot fewer people were into technology when the iPod launched or iTunes or even the iPhone for that matter. As others have correctly noted, the Watch is an iPhone accessory, not a new tentpole product. So how well should that accessory sell? Given the hype, Apple generated or not, fair or unfair, expectations were high. I remember some people posting here that they'd sell 40 million the first year with absolute certainty, labeling anyone who disagreed a troll and hater. Yeah, sure.
I've always had a rather pessimistic view of this product despite being a big Apple fan because I fail to see the need. I appreciate the tech but I don't want to see Apple become watered down and I'm afraid they are losing focus a bit. If the watch becomes a solid accessory business that adds a few billion every quarter to the bottom line, I'll be very happy with that. But it's far too early to tell and right now the Watch feels like a product in need of a purpose to me. The diehards have gotten theirs and there doesn't seem to be a lot of general enthusiasm for the product (in the real world, not fan forums...). It's obvious why anyone would want and need a smart phone in today's world. And Apple makes the best. It is not obvious why you would want a smart watch.
Now add the few million Apple fans who wait and see how a new product proves its usefulness over the first year or two, and those considerably less than few million who wait for the second generation, and then add the millions of not-quite-Apple "fans" who'll buy one for Christmas, and then the millions and millions of not-quite Apple "fans" who just buy stuff they see others happy with and that they consider beautiful, and suddenly — hey presto! — you've got a market.
Twit.
What's your problem? No one can have an opinion that contradicts yours? I guess you have a crystal ball? Or maybe you're just dumb as rocks and think you can see into the future? None of that has happened. We're talking about the market today. Not your Christmas fantasy.
How many people are in the world? 7-8 billion? Apple "only" sold 48 MM iPhones in the last quarter. That's pretty week considering the potential market. That's less than 1%. Apple is doomed!
Apple fans aren't lemmings. Don't patronize us.
What does the number of people in the world have to do with the number of iPhones sold? Anyone? That's right! NOTHING! I know you think you're smart...
Now what does the number of iPhones sold have to do with the number of watches sold? A lot. Considering you need an iPhone to use the watch. So that's your potential market.
Comments
The market right now sees Apple as a one trick pony, as a shareholder thats all that matters to me. I invest in Apple based on how they are seen not how I like them to be seen. Stock dropped today because Apple lost the top spot in china, Xiaomi taking the top spot. I like Apple for two reasons I like the products they make and I like the money I make off them. As soon as those two factors don't suit my needs my love for them ends on a dime.
When I look at where Apple is earning their most money, the iPhone stands out by far. So, in that sense Apple can be called a one trick pony.
However that ignores how Apple products are designed to work together to enhance each other's appeal and marketability. Blackberry doesn't have that portfolio, nor do they have the ecosystem that Apple developed to make the sum of the parts equal a bigger whole. Blackberry much better fits your "one trick pony" label.
The app store and the music store bring in money... but not a lot compared to the iPhone. Yet these stores make the iPhone (and the iPad) a better value proposition. A bean counter. focused on how little these stores add to the bottom line, could easily want to sell off or close these assets. And that's the problem with viewing Apple narrowly as a "one trick pony."
I might also add that Apple is not letting themselves rest on the iPhone. Apple does not see themselves as a HW phone company any more then they thought they were an iPod company when that product was their main source of income, Apple is a technology company foremost and are actively looking for ways to extend into other product areas.
Finally, on this site, you will encounter a lot of enthusiasts regarding Apple and its products. These proponents who irritate you so are the main reason Apple is alive today. They are the kinds of fans of Apple that stuck by the company when it was struggling and truly love the company. No other company I know of has the kind of loyal users/customers Apple enjoys. How much do you think that customer base is worth? I suspect Samsung, who spent 13 billion USD one year in advertising and ended up with few loyal customers, would value Apple's loyal base very high. Much more than 13 billion dollars.
And that what wrong with analysts and investors. Apple fell in rankings even though the other companies haven't reported real numbers. Apple's financials also show Apple growing fast in China. So who to believe? An actual financial statement with extreme consequences if they were lying? Or a report based on guesstimates with no consequences if they are wrong.
When I can't make sense of something I don't invest in it. But that's me.
When I can't make sense of something I don't invest in it. But that's me.
Makes great sense, Warren Buffet said much the same. During the .com boom I was asked why I did not jump when offered to go to a .com company "with significant upside" and I just told them I cannot see where they come out the other side profitable.... so I am quite happy as a salaryman right now (consultant). One of my other co-workers jumped at the offer... and it was not but a few months later that they laid off 90% of their staff, had armed guards protecting against potential backlash... and my friend still employed calling because he was completely stressed out with the situation.
The weakness in Apple stock right now is mostly about market gyration worries and the Chinese market (which is a driver for growth right now). Short term I think it will be weak, but I still see it coming back strong again after things settle down and they realize that the market was still there in China - just the financial markets have to correct big time.
I attribute it all to Uranus squaring Pluto. Clearly Pluto is in ascension, which means we have entered a period of transformation.
/s
Why? Because I have an opinion that isn't raving fanboy? Considering I've been buying Apple (and NeXT) products for over 30 years, make my living on Macs, have switched several companies to Macs over the years, and have never owned a PC...I hardly think I'm a troll. I'm willing to bet I've contributed more to Apple's bottom line than 90%+ of the people posting here. But heaven forbid I have a difference of opinion about something!
Why? Because I have an opinion that isn't raving fanboy? Considering I've been buying Apple (and NeXT) products for over 30 years, make my living on Macs, have switched several companies to Macs over the years, and have never owned a PC...I hardly think I'm a troll. I'm willing to bet I've contributed more to Apple's bottom line than 90%+ of the people posting here. But heaven forbid I have a difference of opinion about something!
Although I am not an iWatch fan, or any watch fan.... there obviously is a market for them. It has to be taken as an iPhone accessory since it is not a stand alone product -- but you really have to have a warped view to say it is not a success so far. It is selling above expectations, above what people thought was possible only months before release.... by far.... it outsold the entire market up until that point in a matter of days clobbering competitors. Will it have the iPhone's lasting power? who knows. But given the reviews I have seen from people that have tried it out for a month and the fact that they really do miss it when they don't wear it... my guess is that it will continue selling fairly well.... but I will never buy one.
What's an "iWatch"? Something Samsung makes?
What's an "iWatch"? Something Samsung makes?
It was the name given in the trade press leading up to it's release.... I still call it the iWatch.... don't really care what it is officially called... "most" people won't be so dense that they cannot figure out what is being talked about
As long as you understand your comment is wrong.
Although I am not an iWatch fan, or any watch fan.... there obviously is a market for them. It has to be taken as an iPhone accessory since it is not a stand alone product -- but you really have to have a warped view to say it is not a success so far. It is selling above expectations, above what people thought was possible only months before release.... by far.... it outsold the entire market up until that point in a matter of days clobbering competitors. Will it have the iPhone's lasting power? who knows. But given the reviews I have seen from people that have tried it out for a month and the fact that they really do miss it when they don't wear it... my guess is that it will continue selling fairly well.... but I will never buy one.
I can't agree with your assessment of the market. What I see is a few million Apple super fans who were chomping at the bit to buy *anything* new from their beloved company. That does not a market make. Let's give Apple the benefit of the doubt and say they sold 3 million units. How many compatible iPhones are out there? 200 million? 300 million? That's pretty weak when you consider the market potential. Perhaps Apple with convince the general iPhone-loving public that they need the Watch too, but I don't see that happening. I think the faithful got their new gadget, but the general public is decidedly not interested. Of course, a year from now I might be eating my words...but I don't think so.
Oh and using ?Pay with the Watch is freaking awesome. And will be even more awesome when more places are using NFC readers.
And more vendors accept ?Pay. That's likely going to be the thing that takes the longest, getting all the retailers onboard with ?Pay. And don't think every retailer will be switching to NFC compatible readers in October. That's likely going to take a year to convert everyone over, depending on how fast the banks can get their chip cards rolled out. But big box retailers and big franchises will all likely be converted.
I will be very interested to see if Apple ever licenses ?Pay technology to third parties. There's no reason the convenience ?Watch offers for making mobile payments can't be included in any number of wearables. As long as that's not the primary reason people are using the ?Watch, I can't see any reason why Apple wouldn't want to earn a cut of mobile payments by every device in existence.
Battery life will continue to improve in all mobile devices, so that's really a non-issue. Not sure why people keep bringing it up. Battery life matters to some, and not to others. Eventually it will satisfy most. And of course as you point out, and has been pointed out numerous times by many people since the watch arrived, the battery life is satisfactory, indeed much better than even Apple suggested with normal use for most people.
Are you kidding me with this shit?
How many people are in the world? 7-8 billion? Apple "only" sold 48 MM iPhones in the last quarter. That's pretty week considering the potential market. That's less than 1%. Apple is doomed!
Apple fans aren't lemmings. Don't patronize us.
1) That's surprising pro-Apple of you.
2) I don't think Apple needs to license anything. At most, I tnink they may simply have a time-based exclusivity in palace, but even that I don't think would be advantageous, especially with Cook at the helm.
The backend changes for the banks and multinationals isn't anything Apple can really "protect" from others, and everything on the retailer end is just accepting NFC-based payments. Perhaps there is mobile device patents they are unique that could be licensed, but since we're talking about a safer way to do payments at best, I think, Apple can only hope for is licensing the method in which its stored on the device, and I'm not seeing anything that can't be argued as being both required and just a brilliant combination of things hat existed in various half-ass forms.
With the info I have, if I were in charge of Apple, I would want everyone to get onboard with this same solution, which seems to be exactly what Google will be doing with Apple Pay. If Apple does decide to put the kibosh on other attempts as convenient and secure mile payments it may help get some sales from a few people that want that feature but I feel it would do more harm since this is an issue to all people, especially with identity theft on the rise as we get more and more connected to the world, that I'd want the world's most successful company to want this for all people, not try to keep it out of the hands of so many.
How many machines had iTunes installed in the Summer of 2007, and yet iPhone sales were worse in that same 9 week span… and I keep being told how Watch is useless, unlike the iPhone. I bet those pooh poohing Watch were also disparaging the iPhone and iPad when they launched.
I can't agree with your assessment of the market. What I see is a few million Apple super fans who were chomping at the bit to buy *anything* new from their beloved company. That does not a market make.
Now add the few million Apple fans who wait and see how a new product proves its usefulness over the first year or two, and those considerably less than few million who wait for the second generation, and then add the millions of not-quite-Apple "fans" who'll buy one for Christmas, and then the millions and millions of not-quite Apple "fans" who just buy stuff they see others happy with and that they consider beautiful, and suddenly — hey presto! — you've got a market.
Twit.
All of this comparing one product launch to another is utterly pointless. A lot fewer people were into technology when the iPod launched or iTunes or even the iPhone for that matter. As others have correctly noted, the Watch is an iPhone accessory, not a new tentpole product. So how well should that accessory sell? Given the hype, Apple generated or not, fair or unfair, expectations were high. I remember some people posting here that they'd sell 40 million the first year with absolute certainty, labeling anyone who disagreed a troll and hater. Yeah, sure.
I've always had a rather pessimistic view of this product despite being a big Apple fan because I fail to see the need. I appreciate the tech but I don't want to see Apple become watered down and I'm afraid they are losing focus a bit. If the watch becomes a solid accessory business that adds a few billion every quarter to the bottom line, I'll be very happy with that. But it's far too early to tell and right now the Watch feels like a product in need of a purpose to me. The diehards have gotten theirs and there doesn't seem to be a lot of general enthusiasm for the product (in the real world, not fan forums...). It's obvious why anyone would want and need a smart phone in today's world. And Apple makes the best. It is not obvious why you would want a smart watch.
What's your problem? No one can have an opinion that contradicts yours? I guess you have a crystal ball? Or maybe you're just dumb as rocks and think you can see into the future? None of that has happened. We're talking about the market today. Not your Christmas fantasy.
What does the number of people in the world have to do with the number of iPhones sold? Anyone? That's right! NOTHING! I know you think you're smart...
Now what does the number of iPhones sold have to do with the number of watches sold? A lot. Considering you need an iPhone to use the watch. So that's your potential market.
Nothing patronizing about it.