Apple's Dr. Dre apologizes for past abuse of women, says he's a changed man

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  • Reply 41 of 131
    coolfactorcoolfactor Posts: 1,894member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismY View Post





    Was this timing purposely done the day after Jared Fogle admitted to raping underage prostitutes?

    So if there is forgiveness for the past where and what are those demarcation points. For example, do the people that say Dre should be forgiven and we should never speak of it again also feel the same way about Cosby, Fogle, or Josh Duggar? Should we make true forgiveness a blanket that allows for no special accountability to judge the core moral fiber of their being? If we do draw lines who draws the lines? How can we be sure they are accurate? As for 'where', I mean where in he past do we draw the line to say it's no longer considers the present? When did Fogle last rape a child? When did Cosby last drug and rape a woman? Should society forgive everything after a certain time? If so, what is the timeframe?



    Just wondering, are you a glass-half-full kinda person? Because I find those questions rather cynical in nature. It's always better (in my opinion) to believe in the good in people.

     

    From the little that I've read, someone that was violated by Dr. Dre, had the accusation heard, he pleaded no contest, settled out of court, has now come forward with that same incident again? Correct me if I'm wrong about that, but if the issue was closed, it should remain closed, not re-opened again. That's not saying that the person is still affected or hurt by it, but life should move forwards, not backwards.

     

    Of course there are exceptions to every "rule". My statement about "Yes, we should forgive" is a general guideline, not a hard and fast rule. Every case should be evaluated and examined on its own. Your questions basically have an overtone of "well, we can't forgive this person, so therefore, we should not forgive anybody!"... and that's destructive, closed-minded thinking.

     

    I made a mistake when I was younger, landed myself with a criminal record and mandatory therapy sessions. That was 15 years ago. You don't know me from adam, but because I told you this, where does your "trust meter" go... am I automatically a bad person until proven innocent, simply because I made one mistake 15 years ago? Am I not entitled to grow and learn and change? Nobody dictates my life except me. Not you, not my family. Just me. And I hope that people do see me for the person that I am today, not the one mistake that I made 15 years ago.

     

    So my point is... yes, we should have a general willingness to forgive people for their past sins if they have committed to living a healthy, productive life that contributes to the betterment of the world. Dr. Dre is a huge influence on people, young and old, and entire industries. One would think that if he was still living an unhealthy life today, he would not have achieved what he has.

     

    Face value. He has my respect, even if I don't like much of his music. :)

  • Reply 42 of 131
    solipsismysolipsismy Posts: 5,099member
    ... and in all this, once someone has pleaded guilty in court, made restitution, and even settled a lawsuit, how is the victim justified in publicly dragging it back up years later?

    Domestic abuse is a seriously despicable act that should never be tolerated, but we live in a country that has constitutional prohibitions against trying people for the same crime over and over again. We might never look at someone the same way after they have paid their penalty, but when the penalty has been paid, it should be the end of the story.

    On the other side of this, if a civil case was settled and one of the parties is now going public with all this, isn't there a possibility that they themselves are violating a legal agreement of some sort?

    And what does it say about the situation once you realize that all this happened a long time ago, but it's only being raised to the current level of attention because of a movie. Wasn't it just as bad before the movie was made?

    If the plaintiff didn't bring it up then it can be rough, but if the plaintiff did settler of court a mind then violators the agreement they signed they should be held liable for that, as is the case with one of Bill Cosby's victims. Cosby is entitled to at least a portion of the money make, even though he's asshole for asking for it but does that really matter to a guy who drugs and rapes women?
  • Reply 43 of 131
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by droslovinia View Post



    ... and in all this, once someone has pleaded guilty in court, made restitution, and even settled a lawsuit, how is the victim justified in publicly dragging it back up years later?



    Domestic abuse is a seriously despicable act that should never be tolerated, but we live in a country that has constitutional prohibitions against trying people for the same crime over and over again. We might never look at someone the same way after they have paid their penalty, but when the penalty has been paid, it should be the end of the story.... (snip)

     

    (Above emphasis mine)

     

    The law is a bit more complex than that:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Jeopardy_Clause

  • Reply 44 of 131
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,922member
    Too late for Bill Cosby, then :)

    Apparently he has a pattern spanning 40 years. It's a shame nothing was done in the 60s/70s. I do find that hard to believe.

    mac-daddy wrote: »
    Lol I'm glad we've set up a timeline that conveniently matches up to your blinded support of Apple. 10 years should be the law - all convicts of this crime should be released from prison as long as they've served 10 years. 

    People makes mistakes when they're younger. As long as it's not a pattern and he did own up to it and sever his time.

    Nobody's perfect.
    mac-daddy wrote: »
    It's saddening/embarrassing to read everyone here coming to the defense of Dr Dre. Please put your egos and love for Apple aside and honestly answer this question - Would you have the same willingness to forgive if this exact scenario played out at literally ANY other company? Even further, what if this happened at Samsung? 

    No one is defending him. If he did it now, he would be fired. We're talking 20 years ago and he pleaded no contest. Unless you find a pattern or more recent occurrences, you have to give him a second chance.
  • Reply 45 of 131
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismY View Post



    Can people truly change? Should we forgive them? Should we feel the same way about Jared Fogle in 20 years? This is business and I certainly don't check the background of everyone I buy from to make sure they are less moral than I would like, so where does one draw the line?



    That's an excellent statement and I guess the answer is: Everyone has to draw this line for him-/herself.

    Some get upset if Apple uses a Russian supplier; others buy their food right on the farm or cultivate it themselves.

    Some avoid clothes made on ships right outside the Vietnamese border, others buy an electric vehicle.

    Then, politics.

    There is almost no aspect of life where you could not - at least try to - dig deeper.

    There are, however, three issues related to this:

    - the number of facts you would have to gather

    - the availability and credibility of information

    - the risks and difficulties or moral judgement.

    An example for the last item: While I flat-out adore the vision and some purported aspects of Steve Job's, obviously, being a human being, he had his weaknesses and lesser bright sides, just as everyone. Was he morally "better" than e.g. Dre is? What is worse, beating a woman, or leaving a kid? and what about your very own weaknesses? 

    In general, in my experience, people neither care enough, nor are they consequent.

    And every now and then they need a moral valve, such as Chelsea Handler or Sarah Silverman and laugh at was is at best shocking, but certainly not witty, before going back to their feigned lives.

     

    A simpler answer: It is neither Apple's nor our task to forgive Dre. But only the one of the ladies he abused.

     

    A pragmatic answer: If I am going to employ someone I do this for his contribution to my business, not for what he or she does during leisure time.

  • Reply 46 of 131
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismY View Post





    Was this timing purposely done the day after Jared Fogle admitted to raping underage prostitutes?

    The irony with Fogle case is this story today about a woman getting only probation for raping a 15 year old boy.

     

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2015/08/21/molly-shattuck-ravens-cheerleader-sentenced-rape-boy/32108039/

  • Reply 47 of 131
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 9,233member
    It is totally pathetic and disgusting how some posters here even admit to feeling sorry for dr dre.

    Dr Dre the serial woman abuser, who has multiple female victims among his accomplishments in the past was not on the receiving end of the violence. He was the perpetrator, not the victim, and it's a total joke for anybody to feel sorry for him. He's laughing all the way to the bank.

    And no, I do not believe that people can truly change. A person who is capable of beating women in the past is still capable of such behavior. Beating women is something that would never even enter into the thought process of normal, non violent males, let alone being a serial perpetrator of such violence. A rapist will always be a rapist, a child molester will always be a child molester and an abuser of women will always be an abuser of women. Their behavior is embedded in their system imo.:smokey:
  • Reply 48 of 131
    geekmeegeekmee Posts: 574member
    thrang wrote: »
    Yet doesn't the Compton film sort of leverage and monetize that time of his life?

    Maybe if he said he was donating his profits from the film to women's abuse support groups, his sincerity might be viewed as even deeper.

    Good point... Actions would speak louder than words in this case... Rather than judge (throw stones) him,...Let's give time to tell.
  • Reply 49 of 131
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by thrang View Post



    Yet doesn't the Compton film sort of leverage and monetize that time of his life?



    Maybe if he said he was donating his profits from the film to women's abuse support groups, his sincerity might be viewed as even deeper.

     

    He is not a producer or director of the movie. He cannot stop someone from making a movie about a group he was involved in. And why should he? It's not a Dr Dre movie, it's a NWA movie. Movies are made every year about people who did good and bad in their lives, it's not glorifying, just telling their story.

     

    Also, he is donating all his profits from his new CD/download to a Performing Arts Center in Compton.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MJ Web View Post



    BS

     

    Why? Because he's a rapper and black, or do you just not believe anyone? My uncle committed murder in his teens, did 10 years or so in jail. After release he went to school, became a successful business man and never did another crime (that I know of). Even I did a few petty crimes in my teens, went to college now I work for major company with a good salary. People do change, stop judging everyone as if you're so perfect and never did wrong.

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by thrang View Post

     



    I'm not calling Dre a thug at all. He's turned into an extremely successful businessperson.

     

    He's making the movie in 2015 about a bad period of his life. That was his choice, not an obligation, and it was to profit from it. So Dre brought this attention back to that time.

     

    Between profiting from it and leaving that part of the history out probably tipped the abused over the line to call attention to what happened back then.

     

    My only point was he could have said he was donating profits from the film to groups that help abused women as part of, what he says, is a life long cathartic process to make amends. Would have been smart, that's all.


     

    He is donating to another charity of his choice, no one can tell anyone who to donate to.

     

    As someone else said, The Angel and person many on this site bend at his alter, Steve Jobs was an illegal drug user and ignored his own child for years (and I'm a huge Jobs fan, but let's not make into some saint). But I'm sure people here will rationalize and make excuses for him. As someone else said, you don't want to know the paths of the CEO's and business leaders of the companies you buy from -- I'm sure more than half have dirt in the past and today do things you don't know about. You never know what someone is doing behind closed doors, hence the words "breaking news" and "scandal" till it comes out. Dre paid for his past (literally), no more anyone can ask now.

  • Reply 50 of 131

    I want all the finger pointers and complainers here to never buy, stop supporting and stop listening to music from all of these people and their related groups... cuz most of them never even apologized and they are criminals and women beaters and murders, and more...

     


    • Stoney LaRue (country, domestic violence)

    • Rodney Atkins (country, domestic violence)

    • Johnny Cash (country, drugs)

    • Randy Travis (country, DWI - arrested nude)

    • Tommy Lee (rock, domestic abuse)

    • Ozzy Osbourne (rock, domestic abuse against his wife)

    • Pete Townshend (rock, pedophilia/child porn)

    • Deen Castronovo (rock, domestic violence)

    • Sid Vicious (rock, murder)

    • Phil Spector (rock, murder)

    • Phil Rudd (rock, hired a hit-man for murder)

    • Woody Allen (married his teenage adopted daughter - not a crime but creepy and immoral)

    • Jerry Lee Lewis (married his teen cousin -- creepy at best)

    • etc., etc., etc.

  • Reply 51 of 131

    I think all this discussion misses the point.  Dr Dre owes these women a face to face apology at the very least.  He needs to do what ever he can to create a society that does not ignore violence against women.  He has both the power and the name recognition to be a force for change and he should do that for himself outside of the public eye.  If he has really become someone who is different than the man who beat these women then he has the opportunity to do something about it.  The person who will most benefit will be Dr Dre himself.  Peace of mind, and creating a better world for your children to grow up in are values that pay off for everyone.

  • Reply 52 of 131
    ronnronn Posts: 511member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mac-Daddy View Post

     

    It's saddening/embarrassing to read everyone here coming to the defense of Dr Dre. Please put your egos and love for Apple aside and honestly answer this question - Would you have the same willingness to forgive if this exact scenario played out at literally ANY other company? Even further, what if this happened at Samsung? 




    No one is defending him. He plead no contest, which amounts to a conviction. He served his time, albeit community hours (240). Paid a $2500+ fine, $1000 restitution to a victims fund, shot an anti-violence PSA about and was on probation for two years. He didn't violate his probation and appears to have kept out of trouble, marrying not too long after and changed his ways. He settled a civil suit with Dee Barnes that included an apology at the time -- more than 20 years ago. He apologized in writing the day before the movie premiered and just today in writing in a much more sincere manner that doesn't downplay what he did nearly half his life ago and which, IMMHO, is sincere and honest. In the years since, he has been a hugely productive member of society. A couple of years ago he donated $35 million to USC for a new degree that focuses on tech. And his latest album will see royalties going to a Compton arts org.

     

    It's not about egos, nor love for Apple. It's about perspective. Bringing Samsung into this is laughable given the Chairman (twice convicted with presidential pardons) and his family's history.

     

    Barnes herself has moved on and so should we. I just hope she can profit off this sad chapter in her life like the others.

  • Reply 53 of 131

    Quote:


    Originally Posted by Mac-Daddy View Post

     

    It's funny that those who have responded to me haven't answered my question. 


     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mac-Daddy View Post

     

    It's saddening/embarrassing to read everyone here coming to the defense of Dr Dre. Please put your egos and love for Apple aside and honestly answer this question - Would you have the same willingness to forgive if this exact scenario played out at literally ANY other company? Even further, what if this happened at Samsung? 


     

    He is two decades away from that part of his past. Do you know anyone who has made mistakes in their life? Get over yourself. And yeah I would think the same if it were any other company.

  • Reply 54 of 131
    solipsismysolipsismy Posts: 5,099member
    coolfactor wrote: »
    Just wondering, are you a glass-half-full kinda person? Because I find those questions rather cynical in nature. It's always better (in my opinion) to believe in the good in people.

    I'm curious what about my questions seem cynical.
  • Reply 55 of 131
    brakkenbrakken Posts: 687member
    Great move, Apple.

    Now that you've finished removing beats from htc, please quietly let Dre and Iovine take a back seat somewhere.
  • Reply 56 of 131
    solipsismysolipsismy Posts: 5,099member
    I want all the finger pointers and complainers here to never buy, stop supporting and stop listening to music from all of these people and their related groups... cuz most of them never even apologized and they are criminals and women beaters and murders, and more...
    • Stoney LaRue (country, domestic violence)
    • Rodney Atkins (country, domestic violence)
    • Johnny Cash (country, drugs)
    • Randy Travis (country, DWI - arrested nude)
    • Tommy Lee (rock, domestic abuse)
    • Ozzy Osbourne (rock, domestic abuse against his wife)
    • Pete Townshend (rock, pedophilia/child porn)
    • Deen Castronovo (rock, domestic violence)
    • Sid Vicious (rock, murder)
    • Phil Spector (rock, murder)
    • Phil Rudd (rock, hired a hit-man for murder)
    • Woody Allen (married his teenage adopted daughter - not a crime but creepy and immoral)
    • Jerry Lee Lewis (married his teen cousin -- creepy at best)
    • etc., etc., etc.

    Did Allen marry his daughter, or marry the asopted daughter of his longtime girlfriend, whom he didn't engage with intimately or marry until well after she was of legal age and whom he's still married to to this day? You can say, "that's still creepy" and even use the fact that Allen has a son with Mia Farrow which makes Soon-Yi an adopted sister to Woody's legal son, and if I were Mia Farrow I can understand not forgiving Allen, but why should we care about aomeone finding true love? They've been together for about 25 years now, which is by far his longest relajtonaship.

    Also, have you seen Woody's son Ronan from his relationship with Mia Farrow? He looks like Frank Sinatra, which even Mia says could be Ronan's biological father since "she never really split up with Frank" after their marriage ended. Is cheating on someone you saying you're in a committed relationship with really worse than breaking off a relationship and then engaging in a new one years later without any skullduggery really worse? Granted, what Allen and the 21yo Soon-Yi — 28yo(?) when they married — did was highly atypical, but why does it matter to anyone else outside that circle when they have the legal right to love and care about each other?
  • Reply 57 of 131
    ronnronn Posts: 511member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismY View Post





    Did Allen marry his daughter, or marry the daughter of his longtime girlfriend, whom he didn't engage with intimately or marry until well after she was of legal age and whom he's still married to to this day? You can say, "that's still creepy" and even use the fact that Allen has a son with Mia Farrow which makes Soon-Yi an adopted sister to Woody's legs son, and if I were Mia Farrow I can understand not forgiving Allen, but why should we care about aomeone finding true love? They've been together for about 25 years now, which is by far his longest relajtonaship.



    Also, have you seen Woody's son Ronan from his relationship with Mia Farrow? He looks like Frank Sinatra, which even Mia says could be Ronan's biological father since "she never really split up with Frank" after their marriage ended. Is cheating on someone you saying you're in a committed relationship with really worse than breaking off a relationship and then engaging in a new one years later without any skullduggery really worse? Granted, what Allen and the 21yo Soon-Yi — 28yo(?) when they married — did was highly atypical, but why does it matter to anyone else outside that circle when they have the legal right to love and care about each other?



    I seriously doubt Allen did nothing with Soon-Yi, who for all intents and purposes was his step-daughter, until she was of age. If Mia Farrow didn't find those photos...

     

    And let's not forget the really nasty accusation: sexually assaulting a 7-year-old. Dylan Farrow, the alleged victim says it happened. The next door neighbor was the first to make the allegation. The DA was a coward too worried about his rep so didn't pursue charges and a trial. Sure, Mia Farrow didn't help the case, but the DA should have done his damn job. When Allen fought for custody and visitation rights, he lost on both counts. That's telling. I would encounter Allen and Soon-Yi most Sundays as they picked up the Sunday Times on the Upper East Side. Seeing them together always sickened me.

    Edited for clarity. Forgot to add "not" to statement re: Dylan Farrow allegation
  • Reply 58 of 131
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,354member
    Far be it for me to disregard a person's attempt at atonement. As one person said "actions speak loudly" if he keeps his behavior in check then that is a net positive in my book.
  • Reply 59 of 131
    solipsismysolipsismy Posts: 5,099member
    ronn wrote: »

    I seriously doubt Allen did nothing with Soon-Yi, who for all intents and purposes was his step-daughter, until she was of age. If Mia Farrow didn't find those photos...

    And let's not forget the really nasty accusation: sexually assaulting a 7-year-old. Dylan Farrow, the alleged victim says it happened. The next door neighbor was the first to make the allegation. The DA was a coward too worried about his rep so didn't pursue charges and a trial. Sure, Mia Farrow didn't help the case, but the DA should have done his damn job. When Allen fought for custody and visitation rights, he lost on both counts. That's telling. I would encounter Allen and Soon-Yi most Sundays as they picked up the Sunday Times on the Upper East Side. Seeing them together always sickened me.
    Edited for clarity. Forgot to add "not" to statement re: Dylan Farrow allegation

    You are entitled to your emotional feelings when you saw Woody out in the town, but that doesn't fit a logical conversation. Maybe there was something going on earlier but is there any proof? Why did Soon-Yi date Woody, marry him and then stay married to him for decades? Can you satisfactory argue that she has Stockholm Syndrome?

    And let's not forget the accusation. I find it hard to blame a DA for not following through on an incestual pedophilia rape case if there was prooof? And even if this DA was some prevert himself siding with Woody why wouldn't someone else follow up on it? Why not at least a civil case?

    There are so many unknowns in this case and yet the most well known "knowns" are almost always stated as an outright lie that I can't help but wonder what the agenda is if the facts actually do all stack up against Woody. That makes no sense.
  • Reply 60 of 131
    solipsismysolipsismy Posts: 5,099member
    Straight Outta Compton is one of the best biopics I've ever seen. Private Parts would still be my favorite, which launched Paul Giamani career, and whom is in Compton, too.

    I thought the actor that played Ice Cube did an outstanding job, but all the acting was good.


    edit: LOL I just looked up the actors on IMDb and saw that the actor who played Ice Cube is Ice Cube's son.
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