It is interesting what some people can tolerate performance wise. Me I absolutely hate lag on any device, the big problem is affording to upgrade every cycle so I stick it out.
On the flip side there are many of us that haven't upgraded iPads this year because we are expecting more of Apple. IPad Air needed a processor update this year to get me to buy and that didn't come. Apple also needs to pull head from Ass and update flash storage in these devices. How Apple can use the term "pro" for a device that tops out with a 128 GB of storage is beyond me.
In other words there are lots of reasons for not upgrading. Sometimes it is due to not buying into Apples vision of what a product should be and cost. For many of us the big problem with tablets is that there is no good alternative to iPad on the market yet. The closest I've seen is the Jolla and they haven't set the hook yet with the right feature set.
Many users just stick with a few popular apps and are happy. Yeah, I myself was looking forward to a 256GB Pro. Cook, Schiller and company do seem out of touch with reality. (16GB for the iPhone???) And like Jobs they don't care much for what we loyal users want. (Except for releasing the larger plus iPhones)
as many note, DED should have included the much longer upgrade cycles for iPads (and all computers) than years ago in his analysis.
most consumers and businesses do not need more processor horsepower for the standard apps they use. nor do they really care about screen resolution specs and other gadget bells and whistles. if they are happy with the tablet or computer they have been using for a few years they will stick with it.
for tablets the best motivator for consumers to update is lighter weight. i won't use my old iPad 2 anymore although it works fine for most things - it's just too darn heavy to hold very long, period. but i still haven't got a new large screen iPad to replace it because my v.2 Mini is so convenient to tote and all really need. but all iPads are lightweight now, so that factor's replacement cycle is mostly completed.
smartphones are different, and not just because of contract cycles. everyday very useful innovations like Touch ID and much improved cameras really do drive regular updating. but for a tablet neither of those really matters all that much.
so much for Apple's alleged "planned obsolescence" of its hardware products.
Before you get too fixated on defending Google, let's go through the basis of my argument step-by-step:
1) There is a web browser on Chromebooks, correct?
2) Using that web browser, one could go to a websites serving up a web applications, correct?
3) On those websites there could potentially be ads and tracking, correct?
4) Now extend that to the multitude of apps for Chromebooks which are just shells around web content.
Nowhere did I state that Google's education apps were serving up ads or tracking. Having worked with GAFE, I know very well their policies.
However, you seem to believe that teachers and students will only ever use Google's apps. I've seen teachers go to all sorts of web sites looking for material to use in their classes, and often get embarrassed when inappropriate ads pop up (but tolerate it because it's free). That's what I was referring to when I was talking about web apps.
Now, I understand that Google (and others), provide paid web apps for Chromebooks. However, a good chunk of these apps use a subscription model, which means that teachers will lose their content if they don't have the funding to continue with the subscription over time. Now, I realize a lot of native iOS apps are going in this same direction, but there are still plenty which allow you to have access to at least the basic functionality/content for the initial purchase price.
Before you get too fixated on defending Google, let's go through the basis of my argument step-by-step:
1) There is a web browser on Chromebooks, correct?
2) Using that web browser, one could go to a websites serving up a web applications, correct?
3) On those websites there could potentially be ads and tracking, correct?
4) Now extend that to the multitude of apps for Chromebooks which are just shells around web content.
Nowhere did I state that Google's education apps were serving up ads or tracking. Having worked with GAFE, I know very well their policies.
However, you seem to believe that teachers and students will only ever use Google's apps. I've seen teachers go to all sorts of web sites looking for material to use in their classes, and often get embarrassed when inappropriate ads pop up (but tolerate it because it's free). That's what I was referring to when I was talking about web apps.
Now, I understand that Google (and others), provide paid web apps for Chromebooks. However, a good chunk of these apps use a subscription model, which means that teachers will lose their content if they don't have the funding to continue with the subscription over time. Now, I realize a lot of native iOS apps are going in this same direction, but there are still plenty which allow you to have access to at least the basic functionality/content for the initial purchase price.
AFAIK Chromebook for Education app users in grades K-12 don't see any ads whatsoever when doing a Google web search, much less an "inappropriate" one.
Now if a teacher or student is using their own personal device rather than a school-issued Chromebook then of course YMMV. Even then Google isn't likely to serve up what would generally be considered inappropriate ads IMHO unless the website itself is inappropriate. There's a pretty inclusive list of potentially offensive ad types that Google simply won't host, period.
With that said there are lots of web advertising companies that are NOT Google (or related to them in any way) and may not have the same qualms about possibly offensive advertising.
I used IBM just to show how people respond when they get to decide.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman
[Chromebooks] are darn near bulletproof. Schools are notoriously short on IT staff and I've watched 100's of these Chromebooks be rolled out with no real issues at my site. With my sons it is a high school with well over 2500 students. The numbers in terms of IT costs have to be very good for this to have worked.
That's exactly why I think IT guys buy Chromebook, not students. Any thoughts on iPad roll out and upkeep?
I don't have any strong thoughts on iPad roll out and upkeep because I haven't seen that done recently. These Chromebooks have all literally arrived and been rolled out in less than a year. Ours showed up last year right before (or some even during) state testing. The tests given look terrible, are arcane and remind me of interfaces from a Windows 95-98 era. I asked and heard a tablet version of the test was available but the powers that be wanted keyboards and trackpads/mice available for the kids. Given the terrible nature of the state Common Core test I can see their reasoning. It does not look like it was designed for a touch interface. Heck it barely looks like it was designed for a graphical user interface. (It is truly terrible.)
I did ask my boys what they preferred based off the discussion on here. Both answered Chromebooks and for reasons I'm sure the limited and stretched IT staff would shudder over, they ability to basically treat them as they want and get apps and abilities they want out of them. So as I mentioned many have installed a Linux variant used it to run whatever they desire side by side with the school stuff.
I can tell you an issue I have heard complained about in the past is getting photos and videos off shared iPads. I know Apple has Airplay and iCloud services but they don't play very well with solutions that are not Apple based. Even when using these items with my home PC's the Apple software feels kludged, outdated and the OS often complains that they are still 32 bit. Apple does amazing when the entire ecosystem is them but they need to rebuild some of the bridges they crafted when they were a underdog riding the back of the bear. They once had top-flight software and updates helping them establish a beachhead on Windows. Quicktime, iCloud, iTunes and other apps feel very second class not just on Windows but in their treatment by Apple. Likewise IMHO Apple needs to make it easier to get some iPads back into the mix at these Chromebook schools. They need some Android/Chrome solutions to help with that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by auxio
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by auxio
The problem with Chromebooks is that it's all web apps at this point. So either you go with free, ad-supported...
Chromebooks for education don't serve up ads. Not all Chromebook apps (or textbooks) for education are free either.
Before you get too fixated on defending Google, let's go through the basis of my argument step-by-step:
1) There is a web browser on Chromebooks, correct?
2) Using that web browser, one could go to a websites serving up a web applications, correct?
3) On those websites there could potentially be ads and tracking, correct?
Nowhere did I state that Google's education apps were serving up ads or tracking. Having worked with GAFE, I know very well their policies.
However, you seem to believe that teachers and students will only ever use Google's apps. I've seen teachers go to all sorts of web sites looking for material to use in their classes, and often get embarrassed when inappropriate ads pop up (but tolerate it because it's free). That's what I was referring to when I was talking about web apps.
Now, I understand that Google (and others), provide paid web apps for Chromebooks. However, a good chunk of these apps use a subscription model, which means that teachers will lose their content if they don't have the funding to continue with the subscription over time. Now, I realize a lot of native iOS apps are going in this same direction, but there are still plenty which allow you to have access to at least the basic functionality/content for the initial purchase price.
Most districts run proxies that all browsing has to go through. Likewise if it can happen on one browser, how does that not effect Apple?
AFAIK Chromebook for Education app users in grades K-12 don't see any ads whatsoever when doing a Google web search, much less an "inappropriate" one.
And what happens when they actually go to websites? Because, people generally do web searches to actually get to content.
Quote:
Now if a teacher or student is using their own personal device rather than a school-issued Chromebook then of course YMMV. Even then Google isn't likely to serve up what would generally be considered inappropriate ads IMHO unless the website itself is inappropriate.
I'm not talking about things like pornographic web sites and other content which is easy to identify and block. I'm talking about things like having, say, a tampon ad pop up and having to explain that to young students. And yes, there are plenty of other advertisers out there who don't have the level of sophistication of Google.
Even when using these items with my home PC's the Apple software feels kludged, outdated and the OS often complains that they are still 32 bit.
Kinda like using Microsoft software on Mac has felt for decades. I'm forced to use Lync on Mac for work and it's truly a horrendous piece of software.
There aren't many software companies out there doing good cross-platform software. Especially when it doesn't benefit them to do so. Most small companies have just gone to web apps to get cross-platform because it's cheaper and easier to develop. But it's generally a poor experience that most people simply tolerate because it's cheap. Vicious cycle.
Comments
https://www.google.com/edu/
Chromebooks for education also aren't "data-harvesting" anymore than Apple is. Both companies are signatories and in agreement with the government's Student Privacy initiative.
http://studentprivacypledge.org/?page_id=45
https://www.google.com/edu/trust/
Many users just stick with a few popular apps and are happy. Yeah, I myself was looking forward to a 256GB Pro. Cook, Schiller and company do seem out of touch with reality. (16GB for the iPhone???) And like Jobs they don't care much for what we loyal users want. (Except for releasing the larger plus iPhones)
as many note, DED should have included the much longer upgrade cycles for iPads (and all computers) than years ago in his analysis.
most consumers and businesses do not need more processor horsepower for the standard apps they use. nor do they really care about screen resolution specs and other gadget bells and whistles. if they are happy with the tablet or computer they have been using for a few years they will stick with it.
for tablets the best motivator for consumers to update is lighter weight. i won't use my old iPad 2 anymore although it works fine for most things - it's just too darn heavy to hold very long, period. but i still haven't got a new large screen iPad to replace it because my v.2 Mini is so convenient to tote and all really need. but all iPads are lightweight now, so that factor's replacement cycle is mostly completed.
smartphones are different, and not just because of contract cycles. everyday very useful innovations like Touch ID and much improved cameras really do drive regular updating. but for a tablet neither of those really matters all that much.
so much for Apple's alleged "planned obsolescence" of its hardware products.
The problem with Chromebooks is that it's all web apps at this point. So either you go with free, ad-supported...
Chromebooks for education don't serve up ads. Not all Chromebook apps (or textbooks) for education are free either.
https://www.google.com/edu/
Before you get too fixated on defending Google, let's go through the basis of my argument step-by-step:
1) There is a web browser on Chromebooks, correct?
2) Using that web browser, one could go to a websites serving up a web applications, correct?
3) On those websites there could potentially be ads and tracking, correct?
4) Now extend that to the multitude of apps for Chromebooks which are just shells around web content.
Nowhere did I state that Google's education apps were serving up ads or tracking. Having worked with GAFE, I know very well their policies.
However, you seem to believe that teachers and students will only ever use Google's apps. I've seen teachers go to all sorts of web sites looking for material to use in their classes, and often get embarrassed when inappropriate ads pop up (but tolerate it because it's free). That's what I was referring to when I was talking about web apps.
Now, I understand that Google (and others), provide paid web apps for Chromebooks. However, a good chunk of these apps use a subscription model, which means that teachers will lose their content if they don't have the funding to continue with the subscription over time. Now, I realize a lot of native iOS apps are going in this same direction, but there are still plenty which allow you to have access to at least the basic functionality/content for the initial purchase price.
Now if a teacher or student is using their own personal device rather than a school-issued Chromebook then of course YMMV. Even then Google isn't likely to serve up what would generally be considered inappropriate ads IMHO unless the website itself is inappropriate. There's a pretty inclusive list of potentially offensive ad types that Google simply won't host, period.
With that said there are lots of web advertising companies that are NOT Google (or related to them in any way) and may not have the same qualms about possibly offensive advertising.
I'm going to disagree and say NOT CHEAP. The point made with the IBM decision is that Macs require much less upkeep than PC's.
A typical Chromebook is priced around the iPad Mini:
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2413071,00.asp
http://www.apple.com/shop/buy-ipad/ipad-mini-2
I used IBM just to show how people respond when they get to decide.
Quote:
[Chromebooks] are darn near bulletproof. Schools are notoriously short on IT staff and I've watched 100's of these Chromebooks be rolled out with no real issues at my site. With my sons it is a high school with well over 2500 students. The numbers in terms of IT costs have to be very good for this to have worked.
That's exactly why I think IT guys buy Chromebook, not students. Any thoughts on iPad roll out and upkeep?
I don't have any strong thoughts on iPad roll out and upkeep because I haven't seen that done recently. These Chromebooks have all literally arrived and been rolled out in less than a year. Ours showed up last year right before (or some even during) state testing. The tests given look terrible, are arcane and remind me of interfaces from a Windows 95-98 era. I asked and heard a tablet version of the test was available but the powers that be wanted keyboards and trackpads/mice available for the kids. Given the terrible nature of the state Common Core test I can see their reasoning. It does not look like it was designed for a touch interface. Heck it barely looks like it was designed for a graphical user interface. (It is truly terrible.)
I did ask my boys what they preferred based off the discussion on here. Both answered Chromebooks and for reasons I'm sure the limited and stretched IT staff would shudder over, they ability to basically treat them as they want and get apps and abilities they want out of them. So as I mentioned many have installed a Linux variant used it to run whatever they desire side by side with the school stuff.
I can tell you an issue I have heard complained about in the past is getting photos and videos off shared iPads. I know Apple has Airplay and iCloud services but they don't play very well with solutions that are not Apple based. Even when using these items with my home PC's the Apple software feels kludged, outdated and the OS often complains that they are still 32 bit. Apple does amazing when the entire ecosystem is them but they need to rebuild some of the bridges they crafted when they were a underdog riding the back of the bear. They once had top-flight software and updates helping them establish a beachhead on Windows. Quicktime, iCloud, iTunes and other apps feel very second class not just on Windows but in their treatment by Apple. Likewise IMHO Apple needs to make it easier to get some iPads back into the mix at these Chromebook schools. They need some Android/Chrome solutions to help with that.
The problem with Chromebooks is that it's all web apps at this point. So either you go with free, ad-supported...
Chromebooks for education don't serve up ads. Not all Chromebook apps (or textbooks) for education are free either.
https://www.google.com/edu/
Before you get too fixated on defending Google, let's go through the basis of my argument step-by-step:
1) There is a web browser on Chromebooks, correct?
2) Using that web browser, one could go to a websites serving up a web applications, correct?
3) On those websites there could potentially be ads and tracking, correct?
Nowhere did I state that Google's education apps were serving up ads or tracking. Having worked with GAFE, I know very well their policies.
However, you seem to believe that teachers and students will only ever use Google's apps. I've seen teachers go to all sorts of web sites looking for material to use in their classes, and often get embarrassed when inappropriate ads pop up (but tolerate it because it's free). That's what I was referring to when I was talking about web apps.
Now, I understand that Google (and others), provide paid web apps for Chromebooks. However, a good chunk of these apps use a subscription model, which means that teachers will lose their content if they don't have the funding to continue with the subscription over time. Now, I realize a lot of native iOS apps are going in this same direction, but there are still plenty which allow you to have access to at least the basic functionality/content for the initial purchase price.
Most districts run proxies that all browsing has to go through. Likewise if it can happen on one browser, how does that not effect Apple?
Most districts run proxies that all browsing has to go through. Likewise if it can happen on one browser, how does that not effect Apple?
Let me spell out my initial argument again: n a t i v e a p p s
AFAIK Chromebook for Education app users in grades K-12 don't see any ads whatsoever when doing a Google web search, much less an "inappropriate" one.
And what happens when they actually go to websites? Because, people generally do web searches to actually get to content.
I'm not talking about things like pornographic web sites and other content which is easy to identify and block. I'm talking about things like having, say, a tampon ad pop up and having to explain that to young students. And yes, there are plenty of other advertisers out there who don't have the level of sophistication of Google.
Even when using these items with my home PC's the Apple software feels kludged, outdated and the OS often complains that they are still 32 bit.
Kinda like using Microsoft software on Mac has felt for decades. I'm forced to use Lync on Mac for work and it's truly a horrendous piece of software.
There aren't many software companies out there doing good cross-platform software. Especially when it doesn't benefit them to do so. Most small companies have just gone to web apps to get cross-platform because it's cheaper and easier to develop. But it's generally a poor experience that most people simply tolerate because it's cheap. Vicious cycle.