Just a note. Maybe I made it sound like I wanted room for lots of extra drives in an iMac, but I meant room for just the one HDD and optical (that come standard). They might be replaced if the need arises but not 'added to' (at least not internally)
The fact remains that the market for the machine you describe is pretty much tapped by the current iMac. People that don't care about the latest 'this or that' probably won't care to upgrade to a newer machine at this moment either. Unless you own one of the earlier (slower) models, an LCD won't be reason enough to switch. Particularly the grandma technophobes you describe will be less likely to need the features of a new machine.
If the machine is/was undergoing a complete redesign, they can/could have made a cheap machine with 'limited expandability'. One PCI slot and one AGP slot in a small closed box, where you just plug in a monitor and go, wouldn't make a headless make any harder to use. It might even make it cheaper to produce and update over it's production lifespan as feature bumps no longer require fiddling the entire Mother Board.
A PCI slot, an AGP slot, and a choice of display size hardly upsets ease of use. They merely add some functionality and choice at minimal cost to both Apple and the Consumer.
Apple is the proud owner of the ONLY all-in-one system, the iMac. There are PC all in ones, but they tend to die out very quickly.
If the rumors are true and the only difference between the new iMacs is the optical drive, then Apple will have made the smartest decision ever.
Apple wants to sell iMacs to those who don't want to have to think about computers. they know that they don't want to burn DVDs, so they'll get the iMac with the CD-RW/DVD, but then their grandma just wants to check email from the kids, so she'll get the base level with a CD-ROM.
But the kids want to burn DVDs, so they'll get the one with the CD-R/DVD-R. Dad just wants to watch movies, so he'll ge tthe CD-ROM/DVD one.
Then the other kid, who's a college student, wants a larger display. If he's keen enough on computers to want a larger display, then I'd venture to say he might want a second hard drive. Maybe a zip drive in his machine as well to make it more compatible to PCs...so he'll wnat the Tower.
Basically, Apple has what you're talking about. It's the base level G4.
It's just a bit faster than what you're suggesting.
Anyone who knows what a PCI slot is will not want the iMac.
And I bet Apple makes more money on the G4 towers than the imacs, so they're happy when peole are "forced" or "compelled" to buy a base level G4 rather than a top of the line iMac.
Sounds like Apple would be following the iBook sales pitch, everything the same axcept drive and HD. How successful was the iBook? Oh yea, that's why I have one
<strong>I see your point, but I'm afraid I must disagree.
Apple is the proud owner of the ONLY all-in-one system, the iMac. There are PC all in ones, but they tend to die out very quickly.
If the rumors are true and the only difference between the new iMacs is the optical drive, then Apple will have made the smartest decision ever.
Apple wants to sell iMacs to those who don't want to have to think about computers. they know that they don't want to burn DVDs, so they'll get the iMac with the CD-RW/DVD, but then their grandma just wants to check email from the kids, so she'll get the base level with a CD-ROM.
But the kids want to burn DVDs, so they'll get the one with the CD-R/DVD-R. Dad just wants to watch movies, so he'll ge tthe CD-ROM/DVD one.
Then the other kid, who's a college student, wants a larger display. If he's keen enough on computers to want a larger display, then I'd venture to say he might want a second hard drive. Maybe a zip drive in his machine as well to make it more compatible to PCs...so he'll wnat the Tower.
Basically, Apple has what you're talking about. It's the base level G4.
It's just a bit faster than what you're suggesting.
Anyone who knows what a PCI slot is will not want the iMac.
And I bet Apple makes more money on the G4 towers than the imacs, so they're happy when peole are "forced" or "compelled" to buy a base level G4 rather than a top of the line iMac.
Andrew</strong><hr></blockquote>
Very good post amidala. I entirely agree with you, the next i mac, will be still in the concept of the all in one, and he will still be very simple, nothing to change excepting a RAM slot.
Every other thing is open, concerning the technology and the design.
[quote]14.1 is bigger then the current screen. So it IS an improvement. You can't expect them to put in a 15.2 inch widescreen and have the price come in at $999.
I think 14.1 is perfect for the market that they're going for. If its true that it will be 1Ghz, DVD and 14.1 for 999....wow <hr></blockquote>
Current screen is about 13.8" viewable. So a 14.1" screen would be 0.3" larger, meaning that it is virtually the same size as the current one.
And yes, I can expect them to put in a 15" viewable LCD and price it at $999, because Wintel makers do it all the time. Even a 15" LCD is pretty damn small....most people I know would rather have something a bit larger at home, at least 17" CRT, or 16" viewable.
For the market that Apple is after with the iMac, presumably crossovers from Wintel who are mainly home users, let's think for a moment about what they use their computers for. email, web, writing, taxes, and GAMES! Yeah, they play games. And what do you need for games? Besides a fast mobo, CPU, and GPU, you need a reletively large display!
Apple will never convert many window users with the iMac as long as it has the dinky 14" viewable display. Never. Everyone I know who's considered an iMac have all decided against it because of the display. Every ChumpUSA salesman I've spoken with has said that the display size is the #1 complaint about the iMac.
In fact the consumer opinion about the display size is so overwhelming that Apple MUST understand that the iMac's followup cannot sell well without a more robust display. It's difficult for me to believe that Apple would not enlarge the iMac's display by at least 1" for the next revision.
Anyways, if you dig small displays that's fine, but I think Apple needs to please more people so they can improve their market share. One option to please people who like smaller displays, is for Apple to put the option on the new iMac to shrink the screen image to 14" viewable. That way most people can leave it at 15" viewable or whatever, but those who want it smaller can just set it to 13" viewable. Apple could even make the option to set it to 12 or even 10 inches viewable. That way all the nimrods out there are happy with their small displays.
You know I agree with you, right? Well at least about what Apple will do, if not what they should do, or the implications of consumer reactions to the product. I contend that the market (both mac and PC) would respond better to a very slightly more PC-like iMac.
It's all academic. It won't happen, I know. But a lot more sales than anyone cares to admit are lost in the process. Perhaps the micro-tower iMac isn't the solution, but rather a cheaper low end tower. We'll see what they come up with, I guess. The current Display bundle promos basically show us that there is quite a lot of leeway on price, and that apple could afford to make all-in-one LCD iMacs that still come in cheaper then the current CRT models and that they can make 10-15% cheaper towers and displays, all. Let's see if 2002 brings not only performance but also price improvements to the desktop lines.
There is, yes, one thing that could render my expansion rantings null and void (even for the consumer lines)
The last iMac brought UMA to the mac -- a very smart concept. Perhaps the first radical redesign will bring UMA-2. Hints of giga-wire are in the air. IF this is indeed an 800-1600Mbps processor independent technology, then it becomes a truly useful expansion bus. 100-200MBps would allow the technology to move beyond fast storage, to very fast plug-n-play audio boxes, real time encoder-decoder, video in/out capture/effects processors etc... This is already possible, but double to quadruple the current firewire speeds would make a whole new range of plug in (bus powered) periphs posible.
Amidala, maybe you (and quite possibly Apple too) are right. With faster I/O most expansion quibles evaporate. You still get an idiot proof closed machine, but you get some real power expansion too.
As long as we're speculating on the next iMac's features...
Do the current iMacs support dual monitors? If not, Apple really needs to fix that. I'm pretty sure the port's already there so they can mirror displays, so switching it to a real dual monitor setup shouldn't be hard.
If Apple uses an LCD any smaller than a 15 inch it'll be dead in the water. Why bother using a 14 inch LCD when they could just use a 14 in viewable trinitron tube?
My niece has an iMac and while the feature set has improved to the point that it is acceptable to me, the small screen simply is not. Its not only that its a 15 in monitor, its that is a small 15 in monitor and its not a flat screen like a trinitron . And do you see how much black empty space surrounds the viewable image-its ridiculous. Much more than my monitor has-which is almost nothing.
The iMac is simply unacceptable in its current form, unless Apple wants to keep a similar $499 model around strictly billed as an internet appliance. Personally I would prefer Apple use a 17 inch CRT-they are sturdier, more reliable, and more consistent than LCDs not to mention cheaper........................................... ......
Comments
The fact remains that the market for the machine you describe is pretty much tapped by the current iMac. People that don't care about the latest 'this or that' probably won't care to upgrade to a newer machine at this moment either. Unless you own one of the earlier (slower) models, an LCD won't be reason enough to switch. Particularly the grandma technophobes you describe will be less likely to need the features of a new machine.
If the machine is/was undergoing a complete redesign, they can/could have made a cheap machine with 'limited expandability'. One PCI slot and one AGP slot in a small closed box, where you just plug in a monitor and go, wouldn't make a headless make any harder to use. It might even make it cheaper to produce and update over it's production lifespan as feature bumps no longer require fiddling the entire Mother Board.
A PCI slot, an AGP slot, and a choice of display size hardly upsets ease of use. They merely add some functionality and choice at minimal cost to both Apple and the Consumer.
[ 11-30-2001: Message edited by: Matsu ]</p>
Apple is the proud owner of the ONLY all-in-one system, the iMac. There are PC all in ones, but they tend to die out very quickly.
If the rumors are true and the only difference between the new iMacs is the optical drive, then Apple will have made the smartest decision ever.
Apple wants to sell iMacs to those who don't want to have to think about computers. they know that they don't want to burn DVDs, so they'll get the iMac with the CD-RW/DVD, but then their grandma just wants to check email from the kids, so she'll get the base level with a CD-ROM.
But the kids want to burn DVDs, so they'll get the one with the CD-R/DVD-R. Dad just wants to watch movies, so he'll ge tthe CD-ROM/DVD one.
Then the other kid, who's a college student, wants a larger display. If he's keen enough on computers to want a larger display, then I'd venture to say he might want a second hard drive. Maybe a zip drive in his machine as well to make it more compatible to PCs...so he'll wnat the Tower.
Basically, Apple has what you're talking about. It's the base level G4.
It's just a bit faster than what you're suggesting.
Anyone who knows what a PCI slot is will not want the iMac.
And I bet Apple makes more money on the G4 towers than the imacs, so they're happy when peole are "forced" or "compelled" to buy a base level G4 rather than a top of the line iMac.
Andrew
<strong>I see your point, but I'm afraid I must disagree.
Apple is the proud owner of the ONLY all-in-one system, the iMac. There are PC all in ones, but they tend to die out very quickly.
If the rumors are true and the only difference between the new iMacs is the optical drive, then Apple will have made the smartest decision ever.
Apple wants to sell iMacs to those who don't want to have to think about computers. they know that they don't want to burn DVDs, so they'll get the iMac with the CD-RW/DVD, but then their grandma just wants to check email from the kids, so she'll get the base level with a CD-ROM.
But the kids want to burn DVDs, so they'll get the one with the CD-R/DVD-R. Dad just wants to watch movies, so he'll ge tthe CD-ROM/DVD one.
Then the other kid, who's a college student, wants a larger display. If he's keen enough on computers to want a larger display, then I'd venture to say he might want a second hard drive. Maybe a zip drive in his machine as well to make it more compatible to PCs...so he'll wnat the Tower.
Basically, Apple has what you're talking about. It's the base level G4.
It's just a bit faster than what you're suggesting.
Anyone who knows what a PCI slot is will not want the iMac.
And I bet Apple makes more money on the G4 towers than the imacs, so they're happy when peole are "forced" or "compelled" to buy a base level G4 rather than a top of the line iMac.
Andrew</strong><hr></blockquote>
Very good post amidala. I entirely agree with you, the next i mac, will be still in the concept of the all in one, and he will still be very simple, nothing to change excepting a RAM slot.
Every other thing is open, concerning the technology and the design.
I think 14.1 is perfect for the market that they're going for. If its true that it will be 1Ghz, DVD and 14.1 for 999....wow <hr></blockquote>
Current screen is about 13.8" viewable. So a 14.1" screen would be 0.3" larger, meaning that it is virtually the same size as the current one.
And yes, I can expect them to put in a 15" viewable LCD and price it at $999, because Wintel makers do it all the time. Even a 15" LCD is pretty damn small....most people I know would rather have something a bit larger at home, at least 17" CRT, or 16" viewable.
For the market that Apple is after with the iMac, presumably crossovers from Wintel who are mainly home users, let's think for a moment about what they use their computers for. email, web, writing, taxes, and GAMES! Yeah, they play games. And what do you need for games? Besides a fast mobo, CPU, and GPU, you need a reletively large display!
Apple will never convert many window users with the iMac as long as it has the dinky 14" viewable display. Never. Everyone I know who's considered an iMac have all decided against it because of the display. Every ChumpUSA salesman I've spoken with has said that the display size is the #1 complaint about the iMac.
In fact the consumer opinion about the display size is so overwhelming that Apple MUST understand that the iMac's followup cannot sell well without a more robust display. It's difficult for me to believe that Apple would not enlarge the iMac's display by at least 1" for the next revision.
Anyways, if you dig small displays that's fine, but I think Apple needs to please more people so they can improve their market share. One option to please people who like smaller displays, is for Apple to put the option on the new iMac to shrink the screen image to 14" viewable. That way most people can leave it at 15" viewable or whatever, but those who want it smaller can just set it to 13" viewable. Apple could even make the option to set it to 12 or even 10 inches viewable. That way all the nimrods out there are happy with their small displays.
It's all academic. It won't happen, I know. But a lot more sales than anyone cares to admit are lost in the process. Perhaps the micro-tower iMac isn't the solution, but rather a cheaper low end tower. We'll see what they come up with, I guess. The current Display bundle promos basically show us that there is quite a lot of leeway on price, and that apple could afford to make all-in-one LCD iMacs that still come in cheaper then the current CRT models and that they can make 10-15% cheaper towers and displays, all. Let's see if 2002 brings not only performance but also price improvements to the desktop lines.
There is, yes, one thing that could render my expansion rantings null and void (even for the consumer lines)
The last iMac brought UMA to the mac -- a very smart concept. Perhaps the first radical redesign will bring UMA-2. Hints of giga-wire are in the air. IF this is indeed an 800-1600Mbps processor independent technology, then it becomes a truly useful expansion bus. 100-200MBps would allow the technology to move beyond fast storage, to very fast plug-n-play audio boxes, real time encoder-decoder, video in/out capture/effects processors etc... This is already possible, but double to quadruple the current firewire speeds would make a whole new range of plug in (bus powered) periphs posible.
Amidala, maybe you (and quite possibly Apple too) are right. With faster I/O most expansion quibles evaporate. You still get an idiot proof closed machine, but you get some real power expansion too.
Oh boy, I'm excited again! Lets see what happens.
<strong>Well if he is waiting for an answer from Monish we may be here a LONG time before that story gets posted again.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Got that right. I'm sure he's already on Christmas vacation. Maybe they'll catch him next year...
what a joke, at least I hope it was
<strong>If Apple releases a new iMac with a 14.1 inch screen they will be laughed out of the consumer market.
what a joke, at least I hope it was</strong><hr></blockquote>
But knowing Apple that's what they'll do.
Ghz G4?
LCD iMac?
Hyper mega wide screen PB?
Coming expo maybe brings us an LCD iMac+Optional SuperDrive. Not G5 or iMac G4
733 Mhz G4
133 Mhz Bus
Geforce 2 MX or Radeon graphics (32MB)
56K modem
256 MB RAM
60 GB HD
Superdrive
$1299
15.2" Widescreen LCD - same as TI book to take advantage of the economy of scale
G3 or G4 either way it will have an alitvec engine and the biggest mhz than the buget will stand.
133mhz system bus.
Basic Model
40gb HD
128mb ram
cd-rw
$999
Mid Price Model
60GB
256MB Ram
Combo
$1199
Top Model
80GB
256MB Ram DOH
SuperDrive
$1599
Do the current iMacs support dual monitors? If not, Apple really needs to fix that. I'm pretty sure the port's already there so they can mirror displays, so switching it to a real dual monitor setup shouldn't be hard.
it will be back. we had never been told that everything we do with the front page has to go through him... till we did something
anyway, look for it back, and some new stuff, too
I sincerely apologize to everyone for this little snafu. It makes me mad that we couldn't come back in force and not **** up.
Sorry guys- forgive us.
[ 12-01-2001: Message edited by: Jonathan ]</p>
<strong>guys, we forgot to clear the story with monish
it will be back. we had never been told that everything we do with the front page has to go through him... till we did something
anyway, look for it back, and some new stuff, too
Don't hold your breath everyone...just ask Gorgonzola about waiting for a reply from Monish.
My niece has an iMac and while the feature set has improved to the point that it is acceptable to me, the small screen simply is not. Its not only that its a 15 in monitor, its that is a small 15 in monitor and its not a flat screen like a trinitron . And do you see how much black empty space surrounds the viewable image-its ridiculous. Much more than my monitor has-which is almost nothing.
The iMac is simply unacceptable in its current form, unless Apple wants to keep a similar $499 model around strictly billed as an internet appliance. Personally I would prefer Apple use a 17 inch CRT-they are sturdier, more reliable, and more consistent than LCDs not to mention cheaper........................................... ......
<strong>guys, we forgot to clear the story with monish
it will be back. we had never been told that everything we do with the front page has to go through him... till we did something
anyway, look for it back, and some new stuff, too
I sincerely apologize to everyone for this little snafu. It makes me mad that we couldn't come back in force and not **** up.
Sorry guys- forgive us.
[ 12-01-2001: Message edited by: Jonathan ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah, it'll be back up. Afert MWSF