Apple cuts prices on USB-C & Thunderbolt 3 gear in response to MacBook Pro backlash

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  • Reply 81 of 224
    If USB-C is the future, why Apple did not deliver the iPhone 7 with a USB-C cable? Furthermore…. what hardware is using USB-C now… ZERO… only the new Apple (LG) displays… Hey… but you have 4 of them… How can they be so lame to remove such a smart thing as the Mag-safe..??
    baconstangdigitolSpamSandwich
  • Reply 82 of 224
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,526member
    sumergo said:
    flaneur said:
    zoetmb said:
    slurpy said:
    Awesome move by Apple. This SHOULD shut up most of the complaints, but of course it won't. 
    It's not like Apple is selling $500 laptops.   There's two ways to look at this:  

    The first is that if someone is buying a laptop that starts at $2400, they should't be complaining about having to buy some adapters, even if they're overpriced and that if you're a pro, technology advances and the investment is the price of doing business.  

    The other way to look at it is that if someone is spending between $2400 and $4300 (for the MBP with all options except for application software and AppleCare), Apple shouldn't have cheaped out and they should have provided 2 to 4 adapters in the box of the customer's choosing.   The price of four adapters/cables is as much as a cheap PC.   

    And then my cost of ownership goes up because I can't replace the battery, expand memory or replace the SSD myself.   Or, if I Iive with a 256GB SSD, I've got to get a ton of external storage for pro-level photos and video and live with the hassle of not having every file with me when I'm out of the home/office.  

    This is another example of Apple labeling something "pro" and then not understanding the workflow of their pro customers.   They did that with FinalCutPro and they did it when they moved away from the tower configuration of the MacPro.  

    Every time Apple switches ports, they tell the market how their new choices are the greatest and how they want both manufacturers and consumers to commit to that port.  Then after a few years, they change their minds and they move on to something else.   Did they really need to drop Mag-safe?  What about all the people who bought extra power supplies to keep at home/office, etc.?   HDMI is ubiquitous on TVs and receivers and the cables have become inexpensive, but now I've got to buy an adapter that costs ten times what the cable cost?

    What was Apple's rationale for going solely to USB-C?   Was it because they truly think this port is the future and that the accessory market will fully move to that port and that it provides technological advantages?   Or was it really because of Ive's anal-obsessiveness over thinness and not wanting to look at different sized/shaped ports on the side of the machine?   What drives me crazy is that Apple wants the machine to have this superior industrial design so that it looks great in photos and in ads, but they have no problem with users having to stick a bunch of dongles and adapters on the thing.   It's the same with the iPhone and the obsession with thinness, but then we have to put it in a case because it can't survive a fall.   So few are really seeing and feeling the thinness anyway.  Sometimes I think people at Apple don't actually use the products they produce in the real world. 

    So, IMO, criticism is warranted.   If Apple wants my money, they're going to have to do a bit better.   I hate using PCs at work, but I'm not spending $4K to $5K on my next computer and I don't want to feel like I have less than what I have today.  So as much as I hate Windows, my next laptop might actually be a Windows machine.  And I've been an Apple customer for 35 years. 
    Actually I think it's you and other dongle-phobes who are the anal-obsessives. 

    There is so much pure, sculpted techno eroticism in the new form factor that you'd have to be a puritanical ass-wipe to give a second's thought to how it looks with an adapter or two plugged into it.

    I can't believe the pettiness of you people. The new MBP is the culmination of five years of foresighted development, if you include —as you must — the investments they were jumping on in IGZO development going that far back to Japan, no less, where the tech was developed. 

    Same with the keyboard. If Swiss watchmakers made keyboard switches, they would maybe be like this. Probably another five years in the making. And the aluminum machining — try to find a wonky tenth of a millimeter of misfit. How long have they been developing that? And the asymmetric fans, and so on.

    Go get yourself a Windows machine. You may not deserve to handle one of these unless you come around. Meanwhile, millions are going to get limitless pleasure out of picking theirs up to pack it at the end of the day as they gladly take care to pack its adapters in the case with it. 

    Edit: you know why there's no USB A? It's too big, that's why. It's as obsolete as the headphone jack is on the iPhone. If you want them to make the base thicker just to accommodate that port, you're disqualified as an Apple observer.
    Wow.  Keep snorting that stuff Flaneur - and one day you might be calm enough to discuss things in a civilized manner.

    It is valid for someone to propose the view that Apple is putting form before function and throwing away usable connections for the sake of "thinness".

    It's just a discussion.  Join in some time when you come down - you might learn something.  ;-)
    Yeah, remain calm while another cliché-sotted whiner calls Ive "anal-obsessive" — the term is "retentive," not "obsessive" by the way, but we must join the chorus of other left-brained philistine geeks who think Ive is obsessed with thinness.

    This chorus of whiners is getting very old and tiresome, and yes he pissed me off with his ugly anal blunder, when actually it's he and the whiners who are the obsessives. The pro machine — my pro machine, because I'm a heavy user, you know — has to have at least two obsolete ports and twice as much RAM as I've ever had on a laptop or I'm going to scream louder and louder until Apple apologizes.

    Don't tell me to be civil. I didn't call the most materials-aware industrial designer in history by a clumsy, ugly and gatbled pop psychology insult, ignoring the tradition he comes from of not wasting metal as a cardinal rule. 

    It's really a clash of cultures, this whole hysteria of missing ports. Self-described "pros" are like Microsoft geeks, never throwing away a piece of code or hardware junk if somehow it can be kept in a corner of the machine somewhere just in case it's needed next year. Lighten up, you guys. The future belongs to the svelte and flexible.
    edited November 2016 chiabrucemc
  • Reply 83 of 224
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    Peperino said:
    If USB-C is the future, why Apple did not deliver the iPhone 7 with a USB-C cable?
    So you think Apple should have started with their one device that is used by more non-Mac users than anything else shipping? Not to mention it would have shipped months before the new MBPs would launch? Good job thinking that one through¡
    Furthermore…. what hardware is using USB-C now… ZERO… only the new Apple (LG) displays… Hey… but you have 4 of them…

    There are thousands upon thousands of HW that support USB-C.

    How can they be so lame to remove such a smart thing as the Mag-safe..??

    When MagSafe arrived it replaced a very long/deep power connector for a Mac that only got 2–3 hours of useable battery life. USB-C is shallow and Macs have all day battery life and the other end of the USB-C cable comes out of the PSU instead of being permanently attached. Still, if you absolutely need this, you can buy a magnetic connector for charging a MBP—but I say that knowing full well you are not going to and that you're not likely a Mac user at all.


    PS: I love these users that think Apple should never update to a better port interface that will last a decade plus because they may have to buy an adapter for some aging accessory, even though there is no one forcing them to join others in the modern age. We saw it with the optical drive, the 30pin connector, and the original USB. If these idiots had their way Macs would still have VGA, serial, and parallel ports. 

    watto_cobrabrucemc
  • Reply 84 of 224
    I customised a Dell laptop just for the fun of it.
    It looked more pro than macbook pro.
    But still, "windows" is a deal breaker.

    Nowadays Apple reminds me of Sony where you can never find ONE great product that has it all.
    Apple was not like this.
    I remember 15000RPM harddisks back in the 90s.
    SAD.


  • Reply 85 of 224
    baconstangbaconstang Posts: 1,091member
    My memory is a little foggy, but I can't remember the last time Apple removed 4 different types of interface and replaced it with one (that virtually no one was using), and did it, essentially, overnight.
    Seriously.  When did that happen?
    wigginloquiturduervo80s_Apple_Guy
  • Reply 86 of 224
    wigginwiggin Posts: 2,265member
    bmcf said:
    I guess most complaints are from those who were not around during other "big" changes... SCSI, ADB, Serial, etc, etc... If you can't handle the continual changes that happen in the tech market change to gardening.
    How about a little objectivity here...

    SCCI was only used by a small minority of users

    ADB was a one-trick pony used to connect Apple's proprietary mouse and keyboard. Apple included a USB mouse and keyboard in the box when the dropped the port. No impact.

    Serial - OK, I'll give you this one as a more commonly used port, mainly for printers (also for modems, but Macs had built-in modem at this point in history). However, see my comment below about this being a desktop machine (the iMac when USB was introduced).

    Floppy disk - already largely supplanted by optical media for software distribution and some file transfers using re-writable optical discs. There there could be a need to installed old software from floppies, but this was not all that common. Again, see comment below about this being a stationary desktop computer.

    NONE of these outgoing technologies were anywhere near as ubiquitous and in common, everyday use as the USB A port is today. Yes, it needs to be replaced by C, but we ain't there yet. And let's look at much more recent examples than the iMac (which you are alluding to when your port examples listed above) and much more relevant...laptops (with desktops like the iMac attaching an adapter/dongle is less of an issue...once it's attached you can leave it, you aren't constantly plugging and unplugging devices like you are with mobile computers and in today's world of devices).

    1. The first laptop that had a FW800 port still had a FW400 port.
    2. The first laptop that had Thunderbolt still had a FW800 port.

    In both cases the outgoing port was a little used port (again, very much in contrast to today's USB A port), and yet Apple still recognized the need to include it on at least one design iteration of their laptops. So you can point to those "big changes" all you want, they are really not in the same league as this latest port transition.

    To be clear, I think the new MBPs are fine machines. They have a lot of great things going for them. I just think they could be even better. It is a real impact (we can argue all day about how big of an impact, but it's real) to people who have a lot of devices they need to connect.

    What would be the impact to you if the MBP did have a USB A port? Either in addition to the 4 C ports or in place of one (if you ever have 4 things plugged in at the same time, what are the odds that there isn't at least one of them that's a USB A device?). What harm would it cause you???
    baconstanglorin schultzduervo
  • Reply 87 of 224
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,526member
    wiggin said:
    flaneur said:
    zoetmb said:
    slurpy said:
    Awesome move by Apple. This SHOULD shut up most of the complaints, but of course it won't. 
    It's not like Apple is selling $500 laptops.   There's two ways to look at this:  

    The first is that if someone is buying a laptop that starts at $2400, they should't be complaining about having to buy some adapters, even if they're overpriced and that if you're a pro, technology advances and the investment is the price of doing business.  

    The other way to look at it is that if someone is spending between $2400 and $4300 (for the MBP with all options except for application software and AppleCare), Apple shouldn't have cheaped out and they should have provided 2 to 4 adapters in the box of the customer's choosing.   The price of four adapters/cables is as much as a cheap PC.   

    And then my cost of ownership goes up because I can't replace the battery, expand memory or replace the SSD myself.   Or, if I Iive with a 256GB SSD, I've got to get a ton of external storage for pro-level photos and video and live with the hassle of not having every file with me when I'm out of the home/office.  

    This is another example of Apple labeling something "pro" and then not understanding the workflow of their pro customers.   They did that with FinalCutPro and they did it when they moved away from the tower configuration of the MacPro.  

    Every time Apple switches ports, they tell the market how their new choices are the greatest and how they want both manufacturers and consumers to commit to that port.  Then after a few years, they change their minds and they move on to something else.   Did they really need to drop Mag-safe?  What about all the people who bought extra power supplies to keep at home/office, etc.?   HDMI is ubiquitous on TVs and receivers and the cables have become inexpensive, but now I've got to buy an adapter that costs ten times what the cable cost?

    What was Apple's rationale for going solely to USB-C?   Was it because they truly think this port is the future and that the accessory market will fully move to that port and that it provides technological advantages?   Or was it really because of Ive's anal-obsessiveness over thinness and not wanting to look at different sized/shaped ports on the side of the machine?   What drives me crazy is that Apple wants the machine to have this superior industrial design so that it looks great in photos and in ads, but they have no problem with users having to stick a bunch of dongles and adapters on the thing.   It's the same with the iPhone and the obsession with thinness, but then we have to put it in a case because it can't survive a fall.   So few are really seeing and feeling the thinness anyway.  Sometimes I think people at Apple don't actually use the products they produce in the real world. 

    So, IMO, criticism is warranted.   If Apple wants my money, they're going to have to do a bit better.   I hate using PCs at work, but I'm not spending $4K to $5K on my next computer and I don't want to feel like I have less than what I have today.  So as much as I hate Windows, my next laptop might actually be a Windows machine.  And I've been an Apple customer for 35 years. 
    Actually I think it's you and other dongle-phobes who are the anal-obsessives. 

    There is so much pure, sculpted techno eroticism in the new form factor that you'd have to be a puritanical ass-wipe to give a second's thought to how it looks with an adapter or two plugged into it.

    I can't believe the pettiness of you people. The new MBP is the culmination of five years of foresighted development, if you include —as you must — the investments they were jumping on in IGZO development going that far back to Japan, no less, where the tech was developed. 

    Same with the keyboard. If Swiss watchmakers made keyboard switches, they would maybe be like this. Probably another five years in the making. And the aluminum machining — try to find a wonky tenth of a millimeter of misfit. How long have they been developing that? And the asymmetric fans, and so on.

    Go get yourself a Windows machine. You may not deserve to handle one of these unless you come around. Meanwhile, millions are going to get limitless pleasure out of picking theirs up to pack it at the end of the day as they gladly take care to pack its adapters in the case with it. 

    Edit: you know why there's no USB A? It's too big, that's why. It's as obsolete as the headphone jack is on the iPhone. If you want them to make the base thicker just to accommodate that port, you're disqualified as an Apple observer.
    LOL. You’re not so hot as an observer, either. Why? Because you wouldn’t need to make the MBP base thicker to accommodate a USB A port. You just have to stop drinking the Kool-Aid long enough to see past Ive’s designed illusion of thinness. You clearly think that the thickness of the base is only that narrow flat band where the USB C ports are; and if that were true you’d be correct and an A port would not fit. But it’s not true. That is only about half of the base’s thickness, the other half is the rounded/tapered edge that Apple uses on many of it’s products, part for structural reasons but probably mostly for aesthetic reasons (aka, it makes it look thinner than it really is).

    Given that Apple machines the MBP case, having one small section of that flat part, say about one inch, be about 2 mm thicker would be a trivial manufacturing change. And it would likely have zero impact structurally. So really, there is no technical, structural, or manufacturing related issue that would prevent them from easily doing that. (Alternatively, they could have made that band wider all the way around and reduced the thickness of the tapered curve to keep the same overall thickness. This would have the added benefit of actually creating more internal space for batteries, etc. But then that would not have given them the excuse that anything bigger than USB C was too thick.)

    The only issue remaining is that there would be an ever so slight disruption to the aesthetics. And you would no longer have your perfectly sculpted erotic hardware to grasp in your hand.


    Nice piece of design-work there, mate. The cutout for the old USB port is 4.7mm high, so to give the connector head and footroom you'd have to have a edge-face about 7,7. Run that much extra metal around the entire base and you're talking about a couple of ounces of wasted aluminum, along with destroying the whole tactile experience of this version. (Why did the Air sell so well? Because of those contours under your fingers.)

    Ive is not going to waste metal on that dead and dying port. He's got too much integrity for that. Refresh your acquaintance with Buckminster Fuller if you don't see this as an integrity issue.

    Your suggestion that a flat section be provided for the A port is hilarious. There is no "trivial" compromise when it comes to machining the feel of these laptops. Go to the store and check one out. There has never been anything technical for the consumer (or "pro") with the character of these instruments. We're unbelieveably lucky to have them coming out in these otherwise sorry times. Enough of the ungrateful whining! Learn to enjoy hooking up with adapters! Stop calling them dongles, you perverts! Grow up!
  • Reply 88 of 224
    wigginwiggin Posts: 2,265member
    Soli said:
    PS: I love these users that think Apple should never update to a better port interface that will last a decade plus because they may have to buy an adapter for some aging accessory, even though there is no one forcing them to join others in the modern age. We saw it with the optical drive, the 30pin connector, and the original USB. If these idiots had their way Macs would still have VGA, serial, and parallel ports. 
    I love how people like to imply that "I wish it still had a USB A port" = "I wish it didn't have USB C ports". You do realize that they aren't mutually exclusive, right? I'm sure you do. Or do you believe that Apple's engineers are too incompetent to include both in a design? I'm sure you don't. So why do you insist that people who see a need for an A port are against updating to better port standards?

    The negative feedback this time around far exceeds any I've seen with Apple's previous port migrations. That should be a hint that perhaps this is a little bit bigger deal than those other times. Apple's move to offer pretty big discounts on their USB C accessories is also a pretty big indication that even they misjudged the amount of angst this was going to cause, that perhaps they over-reached just a tad this time. You really have to be blind and lack all objectivity to not be able to see that.
    baconstangduervo
  • Reply 89 of 224
    quadra 610quadra 610 Posts: 6,757member
    Grave is rolling in his Steve!
    you don't know how Jobs operated nearly as well as you think you do, evidently. no surprise...most armchair executives are pretty clueless. 

    I was totally joking. Purely for the wordplay.

    Soli
  • Reply 90 of 224
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    wiggin said:
    I love how people like to imply that "I wish it still had a USB A port" = "I wish it didn't have USB C ports". You do realize that they aren't mutually exclusive, right? I'm sure you do. Or do you believe that Apple's engineers are too incompetent to include both in a design? I'm sure you don't. So why do you insist that people who see a need for an A port are against updating to better port standards?
    And Apple could have included ADB, serial, parallel, and USB-A when they made the iMac. They also could have included the 30-pin connector and Lightning on the iPhone at the same time so that old and new accessories will work. There's a reason why they did this and if you think they made this decision without considerable thought then you're not nearly as intelligent as I've been given you credit for.
    The negative feedback this time around far exceeds any I've seen with Apple's previous port migrations.

    No it doesn't. 

    Apple's move to offer pretty big discounts on their USB C accessories is also a pretty big indication that even they misjudged the amount of angst this was going to cause, that perhaps they over-reached just a tad this time. 

    And tell me about this angst toward 4K and 5K monitors that forced Apple to drop the prices by 25%. Or tell me about the angst against the iPhone that caused Apple to drop the price of the original iPhone after less than 2 months on the market. What you fail to see is that this about supply and demand, and USB-C has such an excessive number of cables, adapters, and accessories already on the market that Apple can't corner it like they did when they released a TB-to-Ethernet adapter back in 2012. There are thousands upon thousands of options supporting USB-C right now and it's only going to snowball faster now that Apple has repeated history by going all in on USB once again. This is a good thing.

    edited November 2016
  • Reply 91 of 224
    wigginwiggin Posts: 2,265member
    flaneur said:
    wiggin said:
    flaneur said:
    zoetmb said:
    slurpy said:
    Awesome move by Apple. This SHOULD shut up most of the complaints, but of course it won't. 
    It's not like Apple is selling $500 laptops.   There's two ways to look at this:  

    The first is that if someone is buying a laptop that starts at $2400, they should't be complaining about having to buy some adapters, even if they're overpriced and that if you're a pro, technology advances and the investment is the price of doing business.  

    The other way to look at it is that if someone is spending between $2400 and $4300 (for the MBP with all options except for application software and AppleCare), Apple shouldn't have cheaped out and they should have provided 2 to 4 adapters in the box of the customer's choosing.   The price of four adapters/cables is as much as a cheap PC.   

    And then my cost of ownership goes up because I can't replace the battery, expand memory or replace the SSD myself.   Or, if I Iive with a 256GB SSD, I've got to get a ton of external storage for pro-level photos and video and live with the hassle of not having every file with me when I'm out of the home/office.  

    This is another example of Apple labeling something "pro" and then not understanding the workflow of their pro customers.   They did that with FinalCutPro and they did it when they moved away from the tower configuration of the MacPro.  

    Every time Apple switches ports, they tell the market how their new choices are the greatest and how they want both manufacturers and consumers to commit to that port.  Then after a few years, they change their minds and they move on to something else.   Did they really need to drop Mag-safe?  What about all the people who bought extra power supplies to keep at home/office, etc.?   HDMI is ubiquitous on TVs and receivers and the cables have become inexpensive, but now I've got to buy an adapter that costs ten times what the cable cost?

    What was Apple's rationale for going solely to USB-C?   Was it because they truly think this port is the future and that the accessory market will fully move to that port and that it provides technological advantages?   Or was it really because of Ive's anal-obsessiveness over thinness and not wanting to look at different sized/shaped ports on the side of the machine?   What drives me crazy is that Apple wants the machine to have this superior industrial design so that it looks great in photos and in ads, but they have no problem with users having to stick a bunch of dongles and adapters on the thing.   It's the same with the iPhone and the obsession with thinness, but then we have to put it in a case because it can't survive a fall.   So few are really seeing and feeling the thinness anyway.  Sometimes I think people at Apple don't actually use the products they produce in the real world. 

    So, IMO, criticism is warranted.   If Apple wants my money, they're going to have to do a bit better.   I hate using PCs at work, but I'm not spending $4K to $5K on my next computer and I don't want to feel like I have less than what I have today.  So as much as I hate Windows, my next laptop might actually be a Windows machine.  And I've been an Apple customer for 35 years. 
    Actually I think it's you and other dongle-phobes who are the anal-obsessives. 

    There is so much pure, sculpted techno eroticism in the new form factor that you'd have to be a puritanical ass-wipe to give a second's thought to how it looks with an adapter or two plugged into it.

    I can't believe the pettiness of you people. The new MBP is the culmination of five years of foresighted development, if you include —as you must — the investments they were jumping on in IGZO development going that far back to Japan, no less, where the tech was developed. 

    Same with the keyboard. If Swiss watchmakers made keyboard switches, they would maybe be like this. Probably another five years in the making. And the aluminum machining — try to find a wonky tenth of a millimeter of misfit. How long have they been developing that? And the asymmetric fans, and so on.

    Go get yourself a Windows machine. You may not deserve to handle one of these unless you come around. Meanwhile, millions are going to get limitless pleasure out of picking theirs up to pack it at the end of the day as they gladly take care to pack its adapters in the case with it. 

    Edit: you know why there's no USB A? It's too big, that's why. It's as obsolete as the headphone jack is on the iPhone. If you want them to make the base thicker just to accommodate that port, you're disqualified as an Apple observer.
    LOL. You’re not so hot as an observer, either. Why? Because you wouldn’t need to make the MBP base thicker to accommodate a USB A port. You just have to stop drinking the Kool-Aid long enough to see past Ive’s designed illusion of thinness. You clearly think that the thickness of the base is only that narrow flat band where the USB C ports are; and if that were true you’d be correct and an A port would not fit. But it’s not true. That is only about half of the base’s thickness, the other half is the rounded/tapered edge that Apple uses on many of it’s products, part for structural reasons but probably mostly for aesthetic reasons (aka, it makes it look thinner than it really is).

    Given that Apple machines the MBP case, having one small section of that flat part, say about one inch, be about 2 mm thicker would be a trivial manufacturing change. And it would likely have zero impact structurally. So really, there is no technical, structural, or manufacturing related issue that would prevent them from easily doing that. (Alternatively, they could have made that band wider all the way around and reduced the thickness of the tapered curve to keep the same overall thickness. This would have the added benefit of actually creating more internal space for batteries, etc. But then that would not have given them the excuse that anything bigger than USB C was too thick.)

    The only issue remaining is that there would be an ever so slight disruption to the aesthetics. And you would no longer have your perfectly sculpted erotic hardware to grasp in your hand.


    Nice piece of design-work there, mate. The cutout for the old USB port is 4.7mm high, so to give the connector head and footroom you'd have to have a edge-face about 7,7. Run that much extra metal around the entire base and you're talking about a couple of ounces of wasted aluminum, along with destroying the whole tactile experience of this version. (Why did the Air sell so well? Because of those contours under your fingers.)

    Ive is not going to waste metal on that dead and dying port. He's got too much integrity for that. Refresh your acquaintance with Buckminster Fuller if you don't see this as an integrity issue.

    Your suggestion that a flat section be provided for the A port is hilarious. There is no "trivial" compromise when it comes to machining the feel of these laptops. Go to the store and check one out. There has never been anything technical for the consumer (or "pro") with the character of these instruments. We're unbelieveably lucky to have them coming out in these otherwise sorry times. Enough of the ungrateful whining! Learn to enjoy hooking up with adapters! Stop calling them dongles, you perverts! Grow up!
    The USB A plug is 2 mm thicker than the USB C. The point is that the the claim that the MBP wasn't thick enough to accommodate the plug is false. You need to stop obsessing about the look and feel of the hardware. Sure, I appreciate that Apple puts care and thought into the appearance of their products, but at the end of the day it's a tool for getting work done, not a work of art.
    baconstangduervosingularity
  • Reply 92 of 224
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member
    I agree, including the USB C-to-USB A adaptor in the box would've been the wiser move, like how they included the headphone jack adaptor with the iPhone 7. But now that they've lowered prices on the adaptor, I think the price drop should be permanent, not only for two months. As someone else mentioned, it isn't as if the MBP is a $500 machine. They start at $1500.
    To me that's a no brainer considering all iPhones and iPads ship with USB-A. And who knows when that will change considering most people probably don't have PCs with USB-C ports.
    https://www.amazon.com/USB-3-1-Type-JOTO-White/dp/B01540Q4FK  $12.

    There's no need for a USB-C to A adapter with the MBP.  Folks will likely buy a USB-C hub or get one of these cables if they don't wirelessly connect to their iPhone.  I haven't in a long time.
  • Reply 93 of 224
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member

    bitmod said:
    nht said:

    The point is that Apple does this because it responds to customer concerns.  Not because sales "have fallen short of Apple's internal projections".

    I don't know a single pro in the world that cares about 'thin'. They want more battery life and better gpu/cpu's, functionality and convenience.
    Explain the pro's buying MacBooks then.  And before that MBAs.  Or even the 13" MBP.  You must not know many pros.

    Pro's humping gear through an airport cares about thin and light.  

    Pro's that need desktop grade GPU/CPUs will FedEx a desktop to their work site.

    Battery life?  I'd rather carry an external battery pack that can charge either my MBP or my iPhone.
  • Reply 94 of 224
    WHY are people so attached to USB-A connectors?! We've been complaining about them for years! Everyone celebrated when the USB-C connector was announced. Now we finally get them and people complain? I don't get it. The C connector is a massive improvement -- shouldn't we be glad to have them?

    ...
    It's obvious that USB-A, B, mini-B and Micro-B are going to be memories a year from now. Firewire already is. Do you want a machine with ports dedicated to things that no longer exist, or one with universal ports that can be used for everything from power to drives to networking to displays to whatever else comes out next week? I *MUCH* prefer the latter!
    Personally I never really understood the hate for USB-A/B. If the connector doesn't go in, do people just jam it in harder without looking?
    baconstangduervo
  • Reply 95 of 224
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    nht said:
    I agree, including the USB C-to-USB A adaptor in the box would've been the wiser move, like how they included the headphone jack adaptor with the iPhone 7. But now that they've lowered prices on the adaptor, I think the price drop should be permanent, not only for two months. As someone else mentioned, it isn't as if the MBP is a $500 machine. They start at $1500.
    To me that's a no brainer considering all iPhones and iPads ship with USB-A. And who knows when that will change considering most people probably don't have PCs with USB-C ports.
    https://www.amazon.com/USB-3-1-Type-JOTO-White/dp/B01540Q4FK  $12.

    There's no need for a USB-C to A adapter with the MBP.  Folks will likely buy a USB-C hub or get one of these cables if they don't wirelessly connect to their iPhone.  I haven't in a long time.
    It's great that this exists—and it's existed from many vendors for over a year now—but who still plugs their iPhone, iPod, or iPad into their Mac so often that they would need a specific cable for this?

    When I bought my 2013 15" MBP that eschewed the Ethernet port, I wasn't upset. I couldn't think of the last time I needed to use Ethernet on my Mac but I bought Apple's TB-to-GigE adapter just in case. I think I used it once. I could have spent a lot less money on some USB-to-Ethernet adapter as those had been available for many years, but I was curious to try out TB.

    Because of some possible yet high improbable need for plugging Ethernet or USB-A I'll buy some cheap adapters or cheap multi-adapter on Monoprice for my new MBP. Not a big deal, especially as the costs as low as $5 which is nothing coming to what I spent on the MBP, as well as how long USB-C will be with us.

    What is a big deal is having this amazing, singular port interface that deals with countless protocols at amazing speeds, and, perhaps most important, will keep me from having to buy another Apple PSU with an attached power cable. Finally a cheap solution which will allow me to save $80 from having an Apple charger in multiple locations or having to unplug, wrap up, store, carry, unwrap, and plug-in every time I want to go to a new place to charge for extended use. Even my car will allow for plugging in via USB for charging. This is an amazing time, and in time others will realize they were being silly about hating USB-C.
    chiabrucemc
  • Reply 96 of 224
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,526member
    By the way, on pricing the new laptops and on reducing the prices of the LG displays: 

    Nobody so far has mentioned the reason that early adopters pay high initial prices for new form factors, only to see the prices level off after some months or a year. To keep its accounts in good order, the company will rely on the enthusiasts who "get" what the new form factor is about, and who want to enjoy it right away, and who will pay the price that will amortize the millions spent over the three- or five-year development process.

    In the case of these laptops, you adopters are paying for the hundreds of millions Apple has spent on shepherding IGZO into mass production (finally), on the keyboard, on the fans and the internal architecture,  and on the hundreds of protypes needed to machine the whole radically redesigned package into existence. Radical because of its size and weight, right everybody? (No I didn't think you'd have the sweat equity in engineering to agree.)

    The reason they are reducing the price of the monitors is that they have little R&D to pay off. LG is getting theirs back, and Apple's response to the whiner hysteria is to at least, on principle, not make a profit on merely selling the damn things.

    Also by the way, the likely reason there is no Apple 4 or 5K monitor is that there is still a shortage of IGZO backplane production.
  • Reply 97 of 224
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member
    avon b7 said:
    nht said:
    Apple rarely, and I mean very rarely responds to customer concerns. It's one of its great weaknesses: communication. Occasionally the fallout from a certain situation will provoke a statement or even an audience with the top man (antennagate comes to mind). Generally speaking though, if sales are good, Apple does little to nothing.
    Iphone 4 sales appear to have been strong the entire period despite antenna gate.  Apple gave away bumpers because the problem affected some number of users and was the easiest fix.
  • Reply 98 of 224
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    curt12 said:
    Personally I never really understood the hate for USB-A/B. If the connector doesn't go in, do people just jam it in harder without looking?

  • Reply 99 of 224
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,526member
    And one more thing: whiner hysteria is an Internet and media disease, and the scourge of our time. 
  • Reply 100 of 224
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member
    avon b7 said:
    WHY are people so attached to USB-A connectors?! We've been complaining about them for years! Everyone celebrated when the USB-C connector was announced. Now we finally get them and people complain? I don't get it. The C connector is a massive improvement -- shouldn't we be glad to have them?

    As for adapters, about the only common use case I can think of that might require one is flash drives. Those need to retain the A connector to plug into other computers. As for everything else, just replace the cable! $5-8 each at Monoprice. Not a big expense, not a hassle, and freedom from perpetual connector flipping!

    As for the "transition," how would YOU do it? A machine with half good connectors and half shitty ones? How is that better than using a couple adapters for a while or just replacing a couple cables? Is there some benefit to that approach that I'm just not seeing?

    It's obvious that USB-A, B, mini-B and Micro-B are going to be memories a year from now. Firewire already is. Do you want a machine with ports dedicated to things that no longer exist, or one with universal ports that can be used for everything from power to drives to networking to displays to whatever else comes out next week? I *MUCH* prefer the latter!
    Although USB-C is better it doesn't make the others ones shitty. Yes, a smooth transition would have been simple by including two USB-C ports and the existing ports. Adapters are a pain. They break. They get lost. They get in the way. The ad bulk. They cost extra. 
    The other ones Are shitty.  It's a joke that you have to try to plug in a USB-A cord three times.  It's funny because it's often true.

    By shipping 4 USB-C Apple has ensured that in the future you won't need crappy adapters to connect USB-C cables to the laptop.  Given that you can already buy USB-C to lighting and USB-C to USB-A cables it's relatively cheap to move into the future today.  As lorin states the only things that will require an adapter or hub are USB sticks.  That will pass quickly enough.  I have a drawer full of USB2 sticks I don't use anymore.  The USB-3 sticks will join them as I buy USB-C sticks.
    Solichia
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