Sonos fires back at Apple's HomePod by offering a pair of One speakers for $349

24

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 77
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,271member
    robbyx said:
    tmay said:
    robbyx said:
    somebody’s worried about being fitbitted...

    the Sonos One is a single-channel speaker. funny nobody had panic attacks about it being mono...yet now people are upset at the multi-channel HP and its seven drivers!
    Sonos has nothing to worry about. Apple doesn’t offer a range of speakers like Sonos.  Everyone is comparing the entry level Sonos offerings to HomePod, but Sonos offers far better speakers than the Sonos One or Play:1. I guarantee the HomePod doesn’t come close to a Play:5, much less two Play:5 speakers linked together, a feature Apple promised and delayed.

    Of course none of these speakers will satisfy a true “audiophile” (I’m not talking about the sudden crop of overnight “audiophiles” eagerly awaiting HomePod as if no other good speaker exists). Thankfully Sonos has true audiophiles covered with the Connect and Connect:Amp options. One connects to your existing home stereo systems to play music through legitimate high end speakers. The other provides an amp so no home stereo system is necessary.

    Apple can’t compete with Sonos. They simply don’t offer what Sonos does, no matter how good HomePod sounds.  Discounting and bundling the Sonos One is a smart move. It steals a bit of Apple’s thunder (not that there’s much thunder around HomePod’s delayed and feature incomplete release), plus highlights just how weak Apple’s offering is compared to Sonos.

    Let’s see, I can get one speaker with a half-baked voice assistant that supports a single music service...or two speakers that can link to create true stereo output, that work with numerous music services (including the only one supported by HomePod), and allow me to use a variety of voice assistants.  Seems like a no brainer to me. 
    The Watch Industry would disagree with you. They thought that they didn't need to worry either.
    I don’t think you can compare the two. Apple did build a better watch. But HomePod doesn’t offer anything truly better than other products.  And it’s limited in what services it supports. Plus it’s not a solution for home theater or people who want to buy true high end speakers for the home. Maybe one day Apple will offer a range of home audio products like Sonos does, but until then HomePod is just another Wi-Fi speaker. 
    1) Apple Watch had less features than other "smart" watches… but you say it was better. So why can't the HomePod be better while offering fewer features out the door?

    2) For over 3 years I've been saying how Echo/Alexa is amazing on this forum and for 3 years I've been being told that you're better off just using and iPhone or iPad for Siri. I tried to explain how the multiple, far-field mics make for an in-arguably better experience with a digital personal assistant, but it's fallen on iPhone mics deaf ears. So why can't Apple's expertise with their A-series chip and the channel beaming audio not be better (aka: disruptive innovation).
    StrangeDaysmike1
  • Reply 22 of 77
    Cesar Battistini MazieroCesar Battistini Maziero Posts: 167unconfirmed, member
    Responding to the imminent sale of the HomePod, Sonos has cut the price of the Sonos One, selling a two-pack of the speaker for $349 -- the same price as one HomePod.




    Individually, the Sonos One sells for $199. The limited time deal for a pair of them cuts the bundle price by $50, giving users an alternative to the HomePod for the same price.

    Sonos has already said that the Sonos One will get AirPlay 2 compatibility at some point in 2018 -- but like all the other manufacturers, there is no clear date. Apple has yet to roll out full AirPlay 2 functionality, with it appearing in the iOS 11.2.5 beta as a selectable option for rudimentary testing, and more completely in Wednesday's iOS 11.3 beta in conjunction with tvOS 11.3 devices as streaming targets.

    The Sonos One is a a single-channel speaker, which can be paired with a second unit for stereo sound. At present, the device supports Amazon Alexa, with Google Assistant coming soon, and Siri support being added with the aforementioned AirPlay 2 update later in the year.

    In AppleInsider's review of the Sonos One, we found it to fill a space with "extremely pleasing sound -- in some ways surpassing a mid-range, 2.1-channel Logitech setup."

    An hour-long hands-on session published on Thursday found the sound quality in the HomePod to be generally superior to that in the Sonos One.

    The offering starts Friday -- the same day HomePod preorders begin -- in the U.S. and U.K. when purchased direct from Sonos. U.S. pricing is $349 for the pair, with U.K. pricing coming in at 349 pounds.
    That just shows how overpriced their products always where. And the sound quality doesn't even compare to the home pod.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 77
    bryantp said:
    The Sonos Play 1 sells for $150 now at Best Buy, Sonos, and Amazon.
    The Play 1 yes, but this article is talking about the One

    The One is Sono's new smart speaker. It looks pretty much just like a Play 1, but adds a microphone and all the necessary "smart" electronics.

    All sorts of "Who's on first?" opportunities with this naming.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 77
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,271member
    That just shows how overpriced their products always where.
    It's impossible to make that determination based on a $25 per unit discount on a $199 MRSP when you buy two.
    edited January 2018 anantksundaram
  • Reply 25 of 77
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,944member
    robbyx said:
    mike1 said:
    robbyx said:
    somebody’s worried about being fitbitted...

    the Sonos One is a single-channel speaker. funny nobody had panic attacks about it being mono...yet now people are upset at the multi-channel HP and its seven drivers!
    Sonos has nothing to worry about. Apple doesn’t offer a range of speakers like Sonos.  Everyone is comparing the entry level Sonos offerings to HomePod, but Sonos offers far better speakers than the Sonos One or Play:1. I guarantee the HomePod doesn’t come close to a Play:5, much less two Play:5 speakers linked together, a feature Apple promised and delayed.

    Of course none of these speakers will satisfy a true “audiophile” (I’m not talking about the sudden crop of overnight “audiophiles” eagerly awaiting HomePod as if no other good speaker exists). Thankfully Sonos has true audiophiles covered with the Connect and Connect:Amp options. One connects to your existing home stereo systems to play music through legitimate high end speakers. The other provides an amp so no home stereo system is necessary.

    Apple can’t compete with Sonos. They simply don’t offer what Sonos does, no matter how good HomePod sounds.  Discounting and bundling the Sonos One is a smart move. It steals a bit of Apple’s thunder (not that there’s much thunder around HomePod’s delayed and feature incomplete release), plus highlights just how weak Apple’s offering is compared to Sonos.

    Let’s see, I can get one speaker with a half-baked voice assistant that supports a single music service...or two speakers that can link to create true stereo output, that work with numerous music services (including the only one supported by HomePod), and allow me to use a variety of voice assistants.  Seems like a no brainer to me. 
    "Apple can’t compete with Sonos."

    Hah! Famous last words. Just ask Blackberry and Amazon how well the phone biz is working out for them now. What was the market share of every MP3 player compared to the iPod?

    It's good that Sonos appears to not share your opinion. They do have a lot to worry about. The industry's best-run and most successful HARDWARE company just decided to play in their sandbox. So, this is probably a smart defensive move to keep their dealers happy for a few more minutes.

    As they've done before, I'd bet Apple opens up HomePod to 3rd parties gradually. I believe you'll see more music and other services offered soon. Maybe even announced at WWDC this year.

    That said, I believe Sonos doesn't think this is a "no-brainer" and may or may not survive or grow by going in directions that Apple is not. Can their "better" stuff support the business with decreased sales of their entry-level product? I don't know, but it looks like they may find out.


    Hate to break it to you, but Apple already tried to play in the high end speaker sandbox and we all know how well the iPod HiFi sold.  Don’t be so cocky. Everything Apple touches isn’t a guaranteed success and HomePod offers no stand out features.

    And no, Apple can’t compete with Sonos.  I’m not saying that HomePod is a bad product. I’m sure it sounds great. But it’s one product. Sonos offers a range of products from simple Wi-Fi speakers like HomePod to soundbars and subs for home theater setups to speakerless boxes that either connect to an existing home stereo or drive TRUE high end speakers of the consumer’s choice. Apple offers none of this. So no, they can’t compete with Sonos. 
    Sonos is a billion a year, more or less, in sales. 

    That's 3 million HomePod sales, more or less.

    Data tells me that, in fact Apple might be able to not only compete, but come in second in sales to Amazon,

    https://9to5mac.com/2017/06/19/amazon-echo-sonos-google-home-wifi-smart-speaker-sales-apple-homepod/
  • Reply 26 of 77
    saareksaarek Posts: 1,144member
    Ouch, £349 is a scary price gouge compared to the US pricing, $349 is around £245, even adding on our 20% VAT would only bring it to £290.
    [Deleted User]watto_cobra
  • Reply 27 of 77
    robbyx said:
    mike1 said:
    robbyx said:
    somebody’s worried about being fitbitted...

    the Sonos One is a single-channel speaker. funny nobody had panic attacks about it being mono...yet now people are upset at the multi-channel HP and its seven drivers!
    Sonos has nothing to worry about. Apple doesn’t offer a range of speakers like Sonos.  Everyone is comparing the entry level Sonos offerings to HomePod, but Sonos offers far better speakers than the Sonos One or Play:1. I guarantee the HomePod doesn’t come close to a Play:5, much less two Play:5 speakers linked together, a feature Apple promised and delayed.

    Of course none of these speakers will satisfy a true “audiophile” (I’m not talking about the sudden crop of overnight “audiophiles” eagerly awaiting HomePod as if no other good speaker exists). Thankfully Sonos has true audiophiles covered with the Connect and Connect:Amp options. One connects to your existing home stereo systems to play music through legitimate high end speakers. The other provides an amp so no home stereo system is necessary.

    Apple can’t compete with Sonos. They simply don’t offer what Sonos does, no matter how good HomePod sounds.  Discounting and bundling the Sonos One is a smart move. It steals a bit of Apple’s thunder (not that there’s much thunder around HomePod’s delayed and feature incomplete release), plus highlights just how weak Apple’s offering is compared to Sonos.

    Let’s see, I can get one speaker with a half-baked voice assistant that supports a single music service...or two speakers that can link to create true stereo output, that work with numerous music services (including the only one supported by HomePod), and allow me to use a variety of voice assistants.  Seems like a no brainer to me. 
    "Apple can’t compete with Sonos."

    Hah! Famous last words. Just ask Blackberry and Amazon how well the phone biz is working out for them now. What was the market share of every MP3 player compared to the iPod?

    It's good that Sonos appears to not share your opinion. They do have a lot to worry about. The industry's best-run and most successful HARDWARE company just decided to play in their sandbox. So, this is probably a smart defensive move to keep their dealers happy for a few more minutes.

    As they've done before, I'd bet Apple opens up HomePod to 3rd parties gradually. I believe you'll see more music and other services offered soon. Maybe even announced at WWDC this year.

    That said, I believe Sonos doesn't think this is a "no-brainer" and may or may not survive or grow by going in directions that Apple is not. Can their "better" stuff support the business with decreased sales of their entry-level product? I don't know, but it looks like they may find out.


    Hate to break it to you, but Apple already tried to play in the high end speaker sandbox and we all know how well the iPod HiFi sold.  Don’t be so cocky. Everything Apple touches isn’t a guaranteed success and HomePod offers no stand out features.

    And no, Apple can’t compete with Sonos.  I’m not saying that HomePod is a bad product. I’m sure it sounds great. But it’s one product. Sonos offers a range of products from simple Wi-Fi speakers like HomePod to soundbars and subs for home theater setups to speakerless boxes that either connect to an existing home stereo or drive TRUE high end speakers of the consumer’s choice. Apple offers none of this. So no, they can’t compete with Sonos. 
    You keep moving the goalposts. You say Apple "can't compete with Sonos" because Sonos has other products in different product categories -- like home theater components. Ok, well Apple has other products in different product categories too, and together that portfolio thumps everyone's earnings. So what are you talking about?

    As for the iPod HiFi, trying to compare them is like trying to compare the iPhone to the Motorola Rockr. both phones, yes, but quite silly to suggest theyre the same or that the success of the Rockr has a factor on the iPhone. 
    mike1watto_cobra
  • Reply 28 of 77

    robbyx said:
    tmay said:
    robbyx said:
    somebody’s worried about being fitbitted...

    the Sonos One is a single-channel speaker. funny nobody had panic attacks about it being mono...yet now people are upset at the multi-channel HP and its seven drivers!
    Sonos has nothing to worry about. Apple doesn’t offer a range of speakers like Sonos.  Everyone is comparing the entry level Sonos offerings to HomePod, but Sonos offers far better speakers than the Sonos One or Play:1. I guarantee the HomePod doesn’t come close to a Play:5, much less two Play:5 speakers linked together, a feature Apple promised and delayed.

    Of course none of these speakers will satisfy a true “audiophile” (I’m not talking about the sudden crop of overnight “audiophiles” eagerly awaiting HomePod as if no other good speaker exists). Thankfully Sonos has true audiophiles covered with the Connect and Connect:Amp options. One connects to your existing home stereo systems to play music through legitimate high end speakers. The other provides an amp so no home stereo system is necessary.

    Apple can’t compete with Sonos. They simply don’t offer what Sonos does, no matter how good HomePod sounds.  Discounting and bundling the Sonos One is a smart move. It steals a bit of Apple’s thunder (not that there’s much thunder around HomePod’s delayed and feature incomplete release), plus highlights just how weak Apple’s offering is compared to Sonos.

    Let’s see, I can get one speaker with a half-baked voice assistant that supports a single music service...or two speakers that can link to create true stereo output, that work with numerous music services (including the only one supported by HomePod), and allow me to use a variety of voice assistants.  Seems like a no brainer to me. 
    The Watch Industry would disagree with you. They thought that they didn't need to worry either.
    I don’t think you can compare the two. Apple did build a better watch. But HomePod doesn’t offer anything truly better than other products.  And it’s limited in what services it supports. Plus it’s not a solution for home theater or people who want to buy true high end speakers for the home. Maybe one day Apple will offer a range of home audio products like Sonos does, but until then HomePod is just another Wi-Fi speaker. 
    Simplicity will be the feature. Multiple friends have Sonos, and the #1 pain point -- getting them working. Especially in the vacation home where they're less familiar with things to begin with. I've seen it take an hour of dicking around, and I've seen times when they just tossed their hands in the air and gave up. One of my Sonos friends has for years been rooting for Apple to make something simpler so he can kick Sonos to the curb.

    If Apple can make multi-room audio stone-simple, they have a definite value add over Sonos.

    It's not about a range of niche products. It's doing one or two things simply and well.

    Also, if you can use an iPad to beam other music services to the HP speaker, then it's exactly no different than most wifi speakers, including the majority of Sonos speakers, so you can't ding Apple for that when you can in fact use multiple sources.
    edited January 2018 watto_cobra
  • Reply 29 of 77
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,271member
    I hope Apple puts the "HomePod tech" in Beats products if they don’t want to offer cheaper options under the HomePod trademark, not unlike how AirPods and Beats use the W1 chip.
  • Reply 30 of 77
    Why does everything have to be about paying a premium? What evidence is there that the mass market really cares about sound quality?
    The headphone market for one. $300 to $400 for headphones is both not unusual and also not considered to be the high-end of the market. $350 is actually an aggressive price point for Apple. Just look at the Google Home Max: it's basically an updated version of the Apple Hi-Fi type of forward facing shelf design with the exact same $399 price that the Hi-Fi launched with. Google didn't bother to invest much time in new or unusual approaches to how the Max handled audio and it's still more expensive. 
    StrangeDays
  • Reply 31 of 77
    Soli said:
    robbyx said:
    tmay said:
    robbyx said:
    somebody’s worried about being fitbitted...

    the Sonos One is a single-channel speaker. funny nobody had panic attacks about it being mono...yet now people are upset at the multi-channel HP and its seven drivers!
    Sonos has nothing to worry about. Apple doesn’t offer a range of speakers like Sonos.  Everyone is comparing the entry level Sonos offerings to HomePod, but Sonos offers far better speakers than the Sonos One or Play:1. I guarantee the HomePod doesn’t come close to a Play:5, much less two Play:5 speakers linked together, a feature Apple promised and delayed.

    Of course none of these speakers will satisfy a true “audiophile” (I’m not talking about the sudden crop of overnight “audiophiles” eagerly awaiting HomePod as if no other good speaker exists). Thankfully Sonos has true audiophiles covered with the Connect and Connect:Amp options. One connects to your existing home stereo systems to play music through legitimate high end speakers. The other provides an amp so no home stereo system is necessary.

    Apple can’t compete with Sonos. They simply don’t offer what Sonos does, no matter how good HomePod sounds.  Discounting and bundling the Sonos One is a smart move. It steals a bit of Apple’s thunder (not that there’s much thunder around HomePod’s delayed and feature incomplete release), plus highlights just how weak Apple’s offering is compared to Sonos.

    Let’s see, I can get one speaker with a half-baked voice assistant that supports a single music service...or two speakers that can link to create true stereo output, that work with numerous music services (including the only one supported by HomePod), and allow me to use a variety of voice assistants.  Seems like a no brainer to me. 
    The Watch Industry would disagree with you. They thought that they didn't need to worry either.
    I don’t think you can compare the two. Apple did build a better watch. But HomePod doesn’t offer anything truly better than other products.  And it’s limited in what services it supports. Plus it’s not a solution for home theater or people who want to buy true high end speakers for the home. Maybe one day Apple will offer a range of home audio products like Sonos does, but until then HomePod is just another Wi-Fi speaker. 
    2) For over 3 years I've been saying how Echo/Alexa is amazing on this forum and for 3 years I've been being told that you're better off just using and iPhone or iPad for Siri. I tried to explain how the multiple, far-field mics make for an in-arguably better experience with a digital personal assistant, but it's fallen on iPhone mics deaf ears. So why can't Apple's expertise with their A-series chip and the channel beaming audio not be better (aka: disruptive innovation).
    While you've long banged the drum on how useful Echo is, I still don't see much value in the reasons given. With Siri on my wrist or laying on the table it just hasn't been a big deal. I purport the interest in HP is not having "Siri in the room", but in having a great-sounding shelf speaker and multi-room audio that just works, and Siri stuff second/later.
    edited January 2018 watto_cobra
  • Reply 32 of 77
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,271member
    Soli said:
    robbyx said:
    tmay said:
    robbyx said:
    somebody’s worried about being fitbitted...

    the Sonos One is a single-channel speaker. funny nobody had panic attacks about it being mono...yet now people are upset at the multi-channel HP and its seven drivers!
    Sonos has nothing to worry about. Apple doesn’t offer a range of speakers like Sonos.  Everyone is comparing the entry level Sonos offerings to HomePod, but Sonos offers far better speakers than the Sonos One or Play:1. I guarantee the HomePod doesn’t come close to a Play:5, much less two Play:5 speakers linked together, a feature Apple promised and delayed.

    Of course none of these speakers will satisfy a true “audiophile” (I’m not talking about the sudden crop of overnight “audiophiles” eagerly awaiting HomePod as if no other good speaker exists). Thankfully Sonos has true audiophiles covered with the Connect and Connect:Amp options. One connects to your existing home stereo systems to play music through legitimate high end speakers. The other provides an amp so no home stereo system is necessary.

    Apple can’t compete with Sonos. They simply don’t offer what Sonos does, no matter how good HomePod sounds.  Discounting and bundling the Sonos One is a smart move. It steals a bit of Apple’s thunder (not that there’s much thunder around HomePod’s delayed and feature incomplete release), plus highlights just how weak Apple’s offering is compared to Sonos.

    Let’s see, I can get one speaker with a half-baked voice assistant that supports a single music service...or two speakers that can link to create true stereo output, that work with numerous music services (including the only one supported by HomePod), and allow me to use a variety of voice assistants.  Seems like a no brainer to me. 
    The Watch Industry would disagree with you. They thought that they didn't need to worry either.
    I don’t think you can compare the two. Apple did build a better watch. But HomePod doesn’t offer anything truly better than other products.  And it’s limited in what services it supports. Plus it’s not a solution for home theater or people who want to buy true high end speakers for the home. Maybe one day Apple will offer a range of home audio products like Sonos does, but until then HomePod is just another Wi-Fi speaker. 
    2) For over 3 years I've been saying how Echo/Alexa is amazing on this forum and for 3 years I've been being told that you're better off just using and iPhone or iPad for Siri. I tried to explain how the multiple, far-field mics make for an in-arguably better experience with a digital personal assistant, but it's fallen on iPhone mics deaf ears. So why can't Apple's expertise with their A-series chip and the channel beaming audio not be better (aka: disruptive innovation).
    While you've long banged the drum on how useful Echo is, I still don't see much value in the reasons given. With Siri on my wrist or laying on the table it just hasn't been a big deal. I purport the interest in HP is not having "Siri in the room", but in having a great-sounding shelf speaker and multi-room audio that just works, and Siri stuff second/later.
    If "having a great-sounding shelf speaker and multi-room audio that just works" was really your primary goal then you'd have had that for years now. Even with the Echo you can connect wired and wireless speakers that will surely offer better sound than what is possible within the small HomePod casing. The real benefit is being able to do this with voice commands where you don't have to yell, enunciate, repeat yourself, and/or wait for the personal digital assistant to finally ready itself. If you don't see that as a huge benefit for Alexa and the Echo's far-field mics,* then you're not going to understand why the HomePod is better than any quality speaker system that you can send audio from your iOS-based device.


    * I was literally told by someone on this forum that Amazon is a joke because it needs more than one mic on their Echo devices and that Apple would never do that. Of course they also said that Apple would never create a home-based digital personal assistant and the pre-sales start just under 13.5 hours.
    edited January 2018 avon b7
  • Reply 33 of 77
    Why does everything have to be about paying a premium? What evidence is there that the mass market really cares about sound quality?
    The headphone market for one. $300 to $400 for headphones is both not unusual and also not considered to be the high-end of the market. $350 is actually an aggressive price point for Apple. Just look at the Google Home Max: it's basically an updated version of the Apple Hi-Fi type of forward facing shelf design with the exact same $399 price that the Hi-Fi launched with. Google didn't bother to invest much time in new or unusual approaches to how the Max handled audio and it's still more expensive. 
    $300-$400 headphones are mass market? I’d love to see some data to back that up.
  • Reply 34 of 77
    Soli said:
    Soli said:
    robbyx said:
    tmay said:
    robbyx said:
    somebody’s worried about being fitbitted...

    the Sonos One is a single-channel speaker. funny nobody had panic attacks about it being mono...yet now people are upset at the multi-channel HP and its seven drivers!
    Sonos has nothing to worry about. Apple doesn’t offer a range of speakers like Sonos.  Everyone is comparing the entry level Sonos offerings to HomePod, but Sonos offers far better speakers than the Sonos One or Play:1. I guarantee the HomePod doesn’t come close to a Play:5, much less two Play:5 speakers linked together, a feature Apple promised and delayed.

    Of course none of these speakers will satisfy a true “audiophile” (I’m not talking about the sudden crop of overnight “audiophiles” eagerly awaiting HomePod as if no other good speaker exists). Thankfully Sonos has true audiophiles covered with the Connect and Connect:Amp options. One connects to your existing home stereo systems to play music through legitimate high end speakers. The other provides an amp so no home stereo system is necessary.

    Apple can’t compete with Sonos. They simply don’t offer what Sonos does, no matter how good HomePod sounds.  Discounting and bundling the Sonos One is a smart move. It steals a bit of Apple’s thunder (not that there’s much thunder around HomePod’s delayed and feature incomplete release), plus highlights just how weak Apple’s offering is compared to Sonos.

    Let’s see, I can get one speaker with a half-baked voice assistant that supports a single music service...or two speakers that can link to create true stereo output, that work with numerous music services (including the only one supported by HomePod), and allow me to use a variety of voice assistants.  Seems like a no brainer to me. 
    The Watch Industry would disagree with you. They thought that they didn't need to worry either.
    I don’t think you can compare the two. Apple did build a better watch. But HomePod doesn’t offer anything truly better than other products.  And it’s limited in what services it supports. Plus it’s not a solution for home theater or people who want to buy true high end speakers for the home. Maybe one day Apple will offer a range of home audio products like Sonos does, but until then HomePod is just another Wi-Fi speaker. 
    2) For over 3 years I've been saying how Echo/Alexa is amazing on this forum and for 3 years I've been being told that you're better off just using and iPhone or iPad for Siri. I tried to explain how the multiple, far-field mics make for an in-arguably better experience with a digital personal assistant, but it's fallen on iPhone mics deaf ears. So why can't Apple's expertise with their A-series chip and the channel beaming audio not be better (aka: disruptive innovation).
    While you've long banged the drum on how useful Echo is, I still don't see much value in the reasons given. With Siri on my wrist or laying on the table it just hasn't been a big deal. I purport the interest in HP is not having "Siri in the room", but in having a great-sounding shelf speaker and multi-room audio that just works, and Siri stuff second/later.
    If "having a great-sounding shelf speaker and multi-room audio that just works" was really your primary goal then you'd have had that for years now. Even with the Echo you can connect wired and wireless speakers that will surely offer better sound than what is possible within the small HomePod casing. The real benefit is being able to do this with voice commands where you don't have to yell, enunciate, repeat yourself, and/or wait for the personal digital assistant to finally ready itself. If you don't see that as a huge benefit for Alexa and the Echo's far-field mics,* then you're not going to understand why the HomePod is better than any quality speaker system that you can send audio from your iOS-based device.
    That's just, like, your opinion, man. 

    First because as stand-alone speakers the Echos & Dots suck. Second because as hubs you start getting complicated. And third, because I'm not interest in deploying marketeer hardware into my home. I trust Apple in ways I do not and likely never will trust Google or Amazon. 

    Nope. A good, stone-simple solution for multi-room audio isn't here yet. I've seen way too much pain & suffering by my friends with Sonos implementations. One even gave up in frustration and just said "fuck it" and relies on an ATV on the receiver in the living room and got rid of his Sonos solution altogether -- too much hassle (and this is a software manager lol).
    edited January 2018 watto_cobra
  • Reply 35 of 77
    wigbywigby Posts: 691member
    robbyx said:
    somebody’s worried about being fitbitted...

    the Sonos One is a single-channel speaker. funny nobody had panic attacks about it being mono...yet now people are upset at the multi-channel HP and its seven drivers!
    Sonos has nothing to worry about. Apple doesn’t offer a range of speakers like Sonos.  Everyone is comparing the entry level Sonos offerings to HomePod, but Sonos offers far better speakers than the Sonos One or Play:1. I guarantee the HomePod doesn’t come close to a Play:5, much less two Play:5 speakers linked together, a feature Apple promised and delayed.

    Of course none of these speakers will satisfy a true “audiophile” (I’m not talking about the sudden crop of overnight “audiophiles” eagerly awaiting HomePod as if no other good speaker exists). Thankfully Sonos has true audiophiles covered with the Connect and Connect:Amp options. One connects to your existing home stereo systems to play music through legitimate high end speakers. The other provides an amp so no home stereo system is necessary.

    Apple can’t compete with Sonos. They simply don’t offer what Sonos does, no matter how good HomePod sounds.  Discounting and bundling the Sonos One is a smart move. It steals a bit of Apple’s thunder (not that there’s much thunder around HomePod’s delayed and feature incomplete release), plus highlights just how weak Apple’s offering is compared to Sonos.

    Let’s see, I can get one speaker with a half-baked voice assistant that supports a single music service...or two speakers that can link to create true stereo output, that work with numerous music services (including the only one supported by HomePod), and allow me to use a variety of voice assistants.  Seems like a no brainer to me. 
    Maybe you should be a spokesman for Sonos since you seem much more confident in their ability to compete then they do.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 36 of 77
    wigbywigby Posts: 691member

    robbyx said:
    tmay said:
    robbyx said:
    somebody’s worried about being fitbitted...

    the Sonos One is a single-channel speaker. funny nobody had panic attacks about it being mono...yet now people are upset at the multi-channel HP and its seven drivers!
    Sonos has nothing to worry about. Apple doesn’t offer a range of speakers like Sonos.  Everyone is comparing the entry level Sonos offerings to HomePod, but Sonos offers far better speakers than the Sonos One or Play:1. I guarantee the HomePod doesn’t come close to a Play:5, much less two Play:5 speakers linked together, a feature Apple promised and delayed.

    Of course none of these speakers will satisfy a true “audiophile” (I’m not talking about the sudden crop of overnight “audiophiles” eagerly awaiting HomePod as if no other good speaker exists). Thankfully Sonos has true audiophiles covered with the Connect and Connect:Amp options. One connects to your existing home stereo systems to play music through legitimate high end speakers. The other provides an amp so no home stereo system is necessary.

    Apple can’t compete with Sonos. They simply don’t offer what Sonos does, no matter how good HomePod sounds.  Discounting and bundling the Sonos One is a smart move. It steals a bit of Apple’s thunder (not that there’s much thunder around HomePod’s delayed and feature incomplete release), plus highlights just how weak Apple’s offering is compared to Sonos.

    Let’s see, I can get one speaker with a half-baked voice assistant that supports a single music service...or two speakers that can link to create true stereo output, that work with numerous music services (including the only one supported by HomePod), and allow me to use a variety of voice assistants.  Seems like a no brainer to me. 
    The Watch Industry would disagree with you. They thought that they didn't need to worry either.
    I don’t think you can compare the two. Apple did build a better watch. But HomePod doesn’t offer anything truly better than other products.  And it’s limited in what services it supports. Plus it’s not a solution for home theater or people who want to buy true high end speakers for the home. Maybe one day Apple will offer a range of home audio products like Sonos does, but until then HomePod is just another Wi-Fi speaker. 
    The Watch is the perfect analogy. When Apple released the Watch, they really weren't sure what features people would use most. They've been working on a smart speaker for years because they just didn't know what consumers would use it for. Now they have introduced hardware that is upgradable for years to come. There is no reason they cannot do everything the competitors do and more. The only question Apple asks (which no one else does) is what their customers will really use an appliance like HomePod for. They will get that answer in 6-12 months and iterate Sonos out of business and also truly compete with Amazon and Google in terms of marketshare. They will win the revenue/profit war in about 3 months.
  • Reply 37 of 77
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,271member
    Why does everything have to be about paying a premium? What evidence is there that the mass market really cares about sound quality?
    The headphone market for one. $300 to $400 for headphones is both not unusual and also not considered to be the high-end of the market. $350 is actually an aggressive price point for Apple. Just look at the Google Home Max: it's basically an updated version of the Apple Hi-Fi type of forward facing shelf design with the exact same $399 price that the Hi-Fi launched with. Google didn't bother to invest much time in new or unusual approaches to how the Max handled audio and it's still more expensive. 
    $300-$400 headphones are mass market? I’d love to see some data to back that up.
    What kind of data are you expecting?

    How are you defining mass market? I define it as "the market for goods that are produced in large quantities" (NOAD, macOS, 2017). So do you not think that these Bose listed in the Top 10 for all of Amazon's headphone categories at a price of $349 aren't produced in any fashion that could be considered a large quantity?


    If your retort will be something along the lines of "but blah blah ships more than yada yada" then it'll sound like the anti-Apple people that come to this forum to say how iOS sucks because Android is installed on a lot more devices. And if you make a claim that involves some percentage of the market even the free EarBuds that come with iPhones may not even make the cut, and AirPods which surely sell in the millions are out compared to probably around a billion crappy EarBuds for the last decade plus.
  • Reply 38 of 77
    Sonos has nothing to worry about. Apple doesn’t offer a range of speakers like Sonos.  Everyone is comparing the entry level Sonos offerings to HomePod, but Sonos offers far better speakers than the Sonos One or Play:1. I guarantee the HomePod doesn’t come close to a Play:5, much less two Play:5 speakers linked together...
    Sonos is VERY worried. Not only do they have a mediocre product but also one with very shoddy security. If you want cheap speakers there are many more cheap ones with better sound quality. Their software has gotten better recently but the UI is still a dog. If you are looking for higher end speakers then also Sonos doesn't hit the spot. You are not going to look at B&O and decide to go the Sonos route. Not saying that a HomePod will ever find a place in my home because its low-end crap but its head and shoulders above Sonos in the way its integrated and sound quality.
  • Reply 39 of 77
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,271member
    Soli said:
    Soli said:
    robbyx said:
    tmay said:
    robbyx said:
    somebody’s worried about being fitbitted...

    the Sonos One is a single-channel speaker. funny nobody had panic attacks about it being mono...yet now people are upset at the multi-channel HP and its seven drivers!
    Sonos has nothing to worry about. Apple doesn’t offer a range of speakers like Sonos.  Everyone is comparing the entry level Sonos offerings to HomePod, but Sonos offers far better speakers than the Sonos One or Play:1. I guarantee the HomePod doesn’t come close to a Play:5, much less two Play:5 speakers linked together, a feature Apple promised and delayed.

    Of course none of these speakers will satisfy a true “audiophile” (I’m not talking about the sudden crop of overnight “audiophiles” eagerly awaiting HomePod as if no other good speaker exists). Thankfully Sonos has true audiophiles covered with the Connect and Connect:Amp options. One connects to your existing home stereo systems to play music through legitimate high end speakers. The other provides an amp so no home stereo system is necessary.

    Apple can’t compete with Sonos. They simply don’t offer what Sonos does, no matter how good HomePod sounds.  Discounting and bundling the Sonos One is a smart move. It steals a bit of Apple’s thunder (not that there’s much thunder around HomePod’s delayed and feature incomplete release), plus highlights just how weak Apple’s offering is compared to Sonos.

    Let’s see, I can get one speaker with a half-baked voice assistant that supports a single music service...or two speakers that can link to create true stereo output, that work with numerous music services (including the only one supported by HomePod), and allow me to use a variety of voice assistants.  Seems like a no brainer to me. 
    The Watch Industry would disagree with you. They thought that they didn't need to worry either.
    I don’t think you can compare the two. Apple did build a better watch. But HomePod doesn’t offer anything truly better than other products.  And it’s limited in what services it supports. Plus it’s not a solution for home theater or people who want to buy true high end speakers for the home. Maybe one day Apple will offer a range of home audio products like Sonos does, but until then HomePod is just another Wi-Fi speaker. 
    2) For over 3 years I've been saying how Echo/Alexa is amazing on this forum and for 3 years I've been being told that you're better off just using and iPhone or iPad for Siri. I tried to explain how the multiple, far-field mics make for an in-arguably better experience with a digital personal assistant, but it's fallen on iPhone mics deaf ears. So why can't Apple's expertise with their A-series chip and the channel beaming audio not be better (aka: disruptive innovation).
    While you've long banged the drum on how useful Echo is, I still don't see much value in the reasons given. With Siri on my wrist or laying on the table it just hasn't been a big deal. I purport the interest in HP is not having "Siri in the room", but in having a great-sounding shelf speaker and multi-room audio that just works, and Siri stuff second/later.
    If "having a great-sounding shelf speaker and multi-room audio that just works" was really your primary goal then you'd have had that for years now. Even with the Echo you can connect wired and wireless speakers that will surely offer better sound than what is possible within the small HomePod casing. The real benefit is being able to do this with voice commands where you don't have to yell, enunciate, repeat yourself, and/or wait for the personal digital assistant to finally ready itself. If you don't see that as a huge benefit for Alexa and the Echo's far-field mics,* then you're not going to understand why the HomePod is better than any quality speaker system that you can send audio from your iOS-based device.
    That's just, like, your opinion, man. 

    First because as stand-alone speakers the Echos & Dots suck. Second because as hubs you start getting complicated. And third, because I'm not interest in deploying marketeer hardware into my home. I trust Apple in ways I do not and likely never will trust Google or Amazon. 

    Nope. A good, stone-simple solution for multi-room audio isn't here yet. I've seen way too much pain & suffering by my friends with Sonos implementations. One even gave up in frustration and just said "fuck it" and relies on an ATV on the receiver in the living room and got rid of his Sonos solution altogether -- too much hassle (and this is a software manager lol).
    1) That argument certainly isn't the same as wanting "a great-sounding shelf speaker and multi-room audio that just works."

    2) If adding other devices to a system, no matter how seamless it is for the user is such a hassle then you wouldn't be such an advocate for AirPlay from an iDevice over a digital personal assistant. Also, you argument sounds just like people that say that the Apple TV just complicates things when their "smart" TV already had apps built-in.

    3) Based on your comments you must've paid way too much for your TV so you could get "good for TV" speakers built-in, because (ya know) it's just too much hassle to connect a quality sound bar or to an A/V receiver. :
    eyeroll:

    4) Even now with a 6+month lead in for Apple entering this market the lengths you people will go to claim that Apple isn't competing with home-baed personal digital assistants is amazing. USA Gymnastics could use someone with your skills on their Olympic team.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 40 of 77
    indyfxindyfx Posts: 320member
    schlack said:
    I've frequently seen Sonos 1 selling for $175 when on sale, so not really any different than historical discounts. Now if Apple would sell a pair of HomePod speakers for $600 that would be a killer deal :) Disappointed that HomePod is tied to Apple Music bc the streaming quality is noticeably worse than Tidal. Wish it supported other services.
    I would have to disagree, unless you opt got the $20 "HIFI" plan Apple Music sounds noticeably better. Compared to the premium "HiFI" plan Apple Music pretty much holds is own. There are a few spots in a few pieces (mostly classical) where I can say yes the HiFi is better but this is only with very critical listing and A vs B testing. This is not the way I typically listen (directly in from of speakers critically listening) so I would say, no Apple Music's sound is noticeably better than tidal in all but the top tier "HiFi" service where it is pretty much a draw (except for a very few exceptions)
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