Apple's Joswiak says iOS gaming catching up to modern consoles

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 43
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,608member
    Note to Apple... stop kidding yourselves.

    iOS gaming is NOWHERE NEAR modern console gaming.

    If you want to get real about gaming, then please do it. Make an official controller for the iPad and make it better than the Nintendo Switch. 

    Looking at the Fortnite pic in the headline... it looks stupid. The graphics are an ugly mess. 

    I have a PS4 and and Xbox One and both curb stomp iOS gaming to death. 

    I tried getting into gaming on my phone, but it's annoying. so then my iPad Pro. Again annoying.

    for involved games, you do need a real controller. Not just a touch screen.

    I am a huge Apple fan over pretty much any other company, but Joswiac sounds out of touch here and that concerns me.

    You know what would be awesome? An Apple TV tier that is as powerful at gaming as an Xbox One X.

    That would be amazing.

    but no... Apple will continue to halfway dance with gaming and then pat themselves on the back with make-believe statements. 

    iOS gaming is nothing more than casual fodder. The real games that have been ported can look decent, but they are annoying to actually play.

    I was impressed that Injustice for example looked about as good as a good Wii U game, but then I played it... No bueno. 

    dumbed down control schemes or putting a controller on the screen is just pure lame. 
    I agree, if Apple wants to get serious about gaming, making its own first-party controller that works across iPad / Apple TV is a must.  On top that, make a version of Apple TV with enough horsepower to take on modern games, and create their own first-party games.  Eddy Cue is hell-bent on doing original content for TV, why not do the same for gaming? Come to think of it, if Apple buys Sony, in one fell swoop it would have a huge foot in gaming and TV / Movie content.
    $62 billion seems a high price to pay to get Sony’s gaming and TV/movie content.  I wonder how much those would cost split off from the rest of Sony.
    Yeah, I should've been more specific. Meant Sony Studios & Sony Gaming division specifically.
    radarthekat
  • Reply 22 of 43
    danvmdanvm Posts: 1,267member
    slurpy said:
    Some of you are fucking hilarious, shitting on the (amazing) gaming capabilities of an ultrathin device that fits in your pocket, and whose primary function isn't even gaming. No, obviously the iPhone, with a mobile chip, isn't on par with the latest consoles. But it's pretty damned impressive in it's own right, considering it's a phone. We've come a long, long way in 10 years, and graphics progress on this front is unmatched. 

    As for you people bitching about the controllers, what the hell is wrong with buying nice bluetooth controller like the Nimbus? I use it to game on my Apple TV all the time, and it works great. Why does Apple need to make one themselves? So that all the "hardcore" gamerz can shit on them non-stop because the D-Pad or the analog sticks aren't to their liking? There's tons of MFI options out there that work just fine. Apple has done a great job with their APIs and with relentlessly pushing the capabilities of their GPUs, in order to create a strong foundation and platform for games. They've done more for mobile gaming than anyone else, and they're not obligated to develop their own console with sounds like it would be a massive headache for little payoff. 
    I think you are wrong.  Nintendo is the company that change mobile gaming, not Apple, with the Gameboy and still today with the Nintendo DS and the Switch.  Add to that great franchises as Mario, Zelda and Metroid.  As today, iOS/tvOS are mostly used for casual gaming, and macOS...no comments.  Plus Apple has zero game franchises that customer would like to play.

    But maybe you are right, entering a market so competitive could be for Apple a a headache for little or no payoff. 
    supadav03watto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 43
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 1,571member
    slurpy said:
    Some of you are fucking hilarious, shitting on the (amazing) gaming capabilities of an ultrathin device that fits in your pocket, and whose primary function isn't even gaming. No, obviously the iPhone, with a mobile chip, isn't on par with the latest consoles. But it's pretty damned impressive in it's own right, considering it's a phone. We've come a long, long way in 10 years, and graphics progress on this front is unmatched. 

    As for you people bitching about the controllers, what the hell is wrong with buying nice bluetooth controller like the Nimbus? I use it to game on my Apple TV all the time, and it works great. Why does Apple need to make one themselves? So that all the "hardcore" gamerz can shit on them non-stop because the D-Pad or the analog sticks aren't to their liking? There's tons of MFI options out there that work just fine. Apple has done a great job with their APIs and with relentlessly pushing the capabilities of their GPUs, in order to create a strong foundation and platform for games. They've done more for mobile gaming than anyone else, and they're not obligated to develop their own console with sounds like it would be a massive headache for little payoff. 

    Dude. Breathe. Calm down. No one is pooping on the amazing things that are iOS devices. And yes, it's amazing that these thin devices can display game graphics as well as they do. 

    But that isn't the argument. The point is that iOS gaming is nowhere near the level of console gaming, contrary to Apple's opinion. And that's true. It's not. 

    Without a controller type of input (or mouse and keyboard style), it just doesn't work. Sure, for some things like Tetris it does, but for more involved gaming, it is horrible. And that is not an overstatement. 

    And your bringing up third party controllers is part of the issue. Apple doesn't MAKE controllers because they don't care to get serious about that experience. Sony and Microsoft and Nintendo do. Because it is a core component. They know that. Apple does not. Third party is not the answer. Because developers know that if it's not a core piece, then hardly anyone will have it. 

    As far as complainers hating on a hypothetical Apple device that actually would provide top notch visuals and controls, they exist against every platform, so that excuse is not valid. 

    iOS gaming sucks dude. Is it making money? Yes. Is it a quality experience? HECK NO.

    And that's the problem. 

    Try understanding where people are actually coming from before replying. And leave the curse words out for those of us that appreciate not having to read that garbage.
    edited March 2018 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 24 of 43
    Gaming on iPhone and iPad is reaching a threshold where it's on par with consoles, which have typically outpaced mobile devices, Apple's VP of product marketing claimed in a recent interview.

    I'm curious as to the criteria being used as the basis of this statement.  Number of games available?  Number of gamers?  Percentage of games available on both iOS and console?  Types of games.

    Saying something is "on par" with something else implies some set of standards by which that measure is judged.  Merely saying "on par" is just marketing.

    For instance, and I realize this is completely subjective, and only applies to me, when I can play Skyrim in full VR on my phone, I'll consider the phone to be "on par" with a Console.  Others will have different standards.  What are Greg Joswiak's standards?

    muthuk_vanalingamjasenj1watto_cobra
  • Reply 25 of 43
    firelockfirelock Posts: 233member
    I bought a Nimbus controller to use with my ATV when Skyforce Reloaded came out. That is a great game with excellent graphics and there is no doubt that the best way to play it is on ATV with a controller. Skyforce on ATV with a controller beats the heck out of playing it on an iPad with your finger. Also no IAP on ATV which makes it a better user experience in general! After I got played out on that game I tried a few other ATV games, but the quality of 99% of them are terrible, and most don’t support controllers. Those that do often the controller support seems like an afterthought. So for the last year or so my Nimbus has sat gathering dust. Gaming on ATV is very much a missed opportunity. I suppose for those few who don’t own a gaming console but do own an ATV, it is better than nothing; but I have little to no reason to ever pick my ATV to play a game over my Xbox One.

    In regards to mobile, I think it is a mistake to say that iPhone/iPad are only good for casual games. There are may great titles that I play on my iPad that have great strategic depth and excellent graphics. But I also think it is disingenuous to claim that iOS devices are somehow the equivalent of modern consoles. They are not. But frankly if I want to play a top-tier shooter like Titanfall 2, that is going to be a much better experience on a console, 55” TV, and a controller than it will be on my iPad even if the graphics were equivalent. Personally I don’t think mobile gaming and consoles are in direct competition with each other, so the argument about whether the graphics are equivalent is largely moot. They are both successful and growing. There is room for both.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 26 of 43
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,566administrator
    We have commenting guidelines for a reason. Review them if you can't see your post.

    We are keeping score.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 27 of 43
    And your bringing up third party controllers is part of the issue. Apple doesn't MAKE controllers because they don't care to get serious about that experience. Sony and Microsoft and Nintendo do. Because it is a core component. They know that. Apple does not. Third party is not the answer. Because developers know that if it's not a core piece, then hardly anyone will have it. 
    Do game controllers currently provide Apple with a platform for leveraging a specific Apple developed technology? No. That's why they're not making them. Not much opportunity to differentiate them technologically vs. 3rd party controllers. Also, I think you're overrating the "core piece" part of it. There are plenty of iOS games that have on-screen controls that are similar to what would be mapped to a controller, so adding controller support isn't really a big obstacle. I think the main obstacle for iOS games right now in terms of parallels to PC or console gaming is pricing. iOS isn't really established as a market where people pay premiums up front for a game. 
  • Reply 28 of 43
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,509member
    And your bringing up third party controllers is part of the issue. Apple doesn't MAKE controllers because they don't care to get serious about that experience. Sony and Microsoft and Nintendo do. Because it is a core component. They know that. Apple does not. Third party is not the answer. Because developers know that if it's not a core piece, then hardly anyone will have it. 
    Do game controllers currently provide Apple with a platform for leveraging a specific Apple developed technology? No. That's why they're not making them. Not much opportunity to differentiate them technologically vs. 3rd party controllers. Also, I think you're overrating the "core piece" part of it. There are plenty of iOS games that have on-screen controls that are similar to what would be mapped to a controller, so adding controller support isn't really a big obstacle. I think the main obstacle for iOS games right now in terms of parallels to PC or console gaming is pricing. iOS isn't really established as a market where people pay premiums up front for a game. 
    The game makers aren't trying to charge premium prices up front either. They make their money on mobile devices from in-app purchases for the most part and there's billions of dollars changing hands due to it. Games are the primary way Apple profits from the App Store. Actually productive stuff is a sideline that doesn't pay much in comparison. 
  • Reply 29 of 43
    tipootipoo Posts: 1,120member
    I'd like them to sponsor or co-develop some more exclusives. Especially taking advantage of that actively cooled A10X in the Apple TV, that could make for a nifty microconsole. 


    But "console quality" is a funny and meaningless catchphrase, I think Apple has said it practically every phone since the 5. The iPhone 8 is closeish to the Switch (better on both fronts when undocked, better on CPU and close on GPU when docked), but both are a ways away from a PS4, but sure you could call it console quality just like the iPhone 4S was Wii quality. 

    And of course, power of hardware doesn't equate to quality of titles, which is where mobile is still very far behind consoles. 
    edited March 2018 supadav03watto_cobra
  • Reply 30 of 43
    gatorguy said: The game makers aren't trying to charge premium prices up front either. They make their money on mobile devices from in-app purchases for the most part and there's billions of dollars changing hands due to it.
    Right, but most ports of relatively recent PC or console games would require premiums up front. It's not a coincidence that PUBG and Fortnite are quickly ported over to iOS when they're NOT using the typical PC/console pricing approach. 
  • Reply 31 of 43
    jasenj1jasenj1 Posts: 922member
    iOS gaming is to console & PC gaming as the HomePod is to a dedicated home theater system.

    On raw numbers, I expect far more people play games on iOS devices than consoles. I wouldn't be surprised if there is more money being made in iOS games than console games. But that doesn't make the experiences "on par". When iOS can push 4K & Dolby Atmos to an AppleTV with a dedicated controller and over 40GB of content, then you can claim "on par". But as someone else mentioned, "on par" is meaningless without knowing what attributes are being compared.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 32 of 43
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    Note to Apple... stop kidding yourselves.

    iOS gaming is NOWHERE NEAR modern console gaming.

    If you want to get real about gaming, then please do it. Make an official controller for the iPad and make it better than the Nintendo Switch. 

    Looking at the Fortnite pic in the headline... it looks stupid. The graphics are an ugly mess. 

    I have a PS4 and and Xbox One and both curb stomp iOS gaming to death. 

    I tried getting into gaming on my phone, but it's annoying. so then my iPad Pro. Again annoying.

    for involved games, you do need a real controller. Not just a touch screen.

    I am a huge Apple fan over pretty much any other company, but Joswiac sounds out of touch here and that concerns me.

    You know what would be awesome? An Apple TV tier that is as powerful at gaming as an Xbox One X.

    That would be amazing.

    but no... Apple will continue to halfway dance with gaming and then pat themselves on the back with make-believe statements. 

    iOS gaming is nothing more than casual fodder. The real games that have been ported can look decent, but they are annoying to actually play.

    I was impressed that Injustice for example looked about as good as a good Wii U game, but then I played it... No bueno. 

    dumbed down control schemes or putting a controller on the screen is just pure lame. 
    I agree, if Apple wants to get serious about gaming, making its own first-party controller that works across iPad / Apple TV is a must.  On top that, make a version of Apple TV with enough horsepower to take on modern games, and create their own first-party games.  Eddy Cue is hell-bent on doing original content for TV, why not do the same for gaming? Come to think of it, if Apple buys Sony, in one fell swoop it would have a huge foot in gaming and TV / Movie content.
    $62 billion seems a high price to pay to get Sony’s gaming and TV/movie content.  I wonder how much those would cost split off from the rest of Sony.
    That price becomes even higher when it is realized what they would be buying:  
    -- Gaming hardware becomes obsolete with each new model
    -- Games are only as valuable as the fad of the moment

    A year after Apple bought it, what would they own besides a name?
    And, I suspect that, at this point, anything Sony could create Apple could match anyway....
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 33 of 43
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    designr said:
    I'm actually a little surprised Apple hasn't done a game console. I assume TV could be the foot in the door for this. The issue with TV and/or iPhone and iPad is simply that game consoles typically have purely dedicated hardware and software for games. They trade-off general-purpose functionality for superior graphics and gaming performance. It probably always will be so because even as general purpose devices "catch up" the technology enables the dedicated consoles to move forward too.

    That said, what 
    TV and iPhone/iPad could do is syphon off the major of the casual gaming market. For example consider what happened with things like cameras. There are still professional, dedicated cameras...but most of the market just use their phones. The tech gets to the point where the delta between the general purpose device and the dedicated devices is only worth it to a small portion of the overall market.

    I think that nailed it.
    There is a huge difference in capability between a modern dedicated gaming system and an iPhone or iPad on a number of different levels.

    As others have mentioned, it was perplexing and bothersome that an Apple exec could believe that mobile gaming has caught up to those dedicated systems.   But, as this post points out:  perhaps he was thinking of the CASUAL gaming market...

    My grandson loves Fortnite on his X-Box.  When offered it on his iPad he just shrugged and went back to the X-Box.  But his dad loves CandyCrush on his phone.   And, even my grandson will play games on his phone -- when he doesn't have access to his X-Box while in the car or school bus.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 34 of 43
    tmaytmay Posts: 5,825member
    So, here's an actual comparison video;

    http://bgr.com/2018/03/21/fortnite-iphone-vs-consoles-visual-comparison-video/

    Pretty impressive performance for the iPhone X considering the difference in TDP of each device's processor/GPU.
    foregoneconclusionGeorgeBMacwatto_cobra
  • Reply 35 of 43
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,322member
    slurpy said:
    Some of you are fucking hilarious, shitting on the (amazing) gaming capabilities of an ultrathin device that fits in your pocket, and whose primary function isn't even gaming. No, obviously the iPhone, with a mobile chip, isn't on par with the latest consoles. But it's pretty damned impressive in it's own right, considering it's a phone. We've come a long, long way in 10 years, and graphics progress on this front is unmatched. 

    As for you people bitching about the controllers, what the hell is wrong with buying nice bluetooth controller like the Nimbus? I use it to game on my Apple TV all the time, and it works great. Why does Apple need to make one themselves? So that all the "hardcore" gamerz can shit on them non-stop because the D-Pad or the analog sticks aren't to their liking? There's tons of MFI options out there that work just fine. Apple has done a great job with their APIs and with relentlessly pushing the capabilities of their GPUs, in order to create a strong foundation and platform for games. They've done more for mobile gaming than anyone else, and they're not obligated to develop their own console with sounds like it would be a massive headache for little payoff. 
    Try understanding where people are actually coming from before replying. And leave the curse words out for those of us that appreciate not having to read that garbage.
    On swearing, if you can’t handle the language adults speak you should limit yourself to content for children. People swear and it’s not a big fucking deal. Until the forum software blocks it out (a common feature) then I assume there is no ban on it when used normally and non-abusively. 
    edited March 2018
  • Reply 36 of 43
    GeorgeBMac said: As others have mentioned, it was perplexing and bothersome that an Apple exec could believe that mobile gaming has caught up to those dedicated systems.   But, as this post points out:  perhaps he was thinking of the CASUAL gaming market...
    Do you consider PUBG and Fortnite to be casual titles? Part of the problem with using that term is that people have so many different interpretations of what actually qualifies as a casual game. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 37 of 43
    AppleTV gaming is a really missed opportunity so far for Apple and devs IMHO. The 4th gen hardware is nearly on par with the Switch already, but the games just aren't there. There are a few standouts, but not nearly enough to sustain interest. The SteelSeries controllers are excellent, and even the Switch Pro & Xbox gen2 controllers should work since they're all Bluetooth capable. I don't see any reason Apple should spend much effort developing their own controllers. A better move would be to partner with MS to stream Xbox games to AppleTV (or iOS devices in general) enabled to play using Xbox controllers, and Nintendo to do something similar with the Switch to AppleTV. They could even work with Nvidia to bring Geforce Now to the AppleTV. That would help with the content/game shortage. Ultimately, Apple needs to find a way to incentivize devs to bring games to the AppleTV with full controller support if they want to make an impact in gaming.
  • Reply 38 of 43
    tylersdadtylersdad Posts: 310member
    georgie01 said:
    tylersdad said:
    It's definitely nice to know that Apple has goals, but mobile devices will never catch up with PC gaming or consoles like the Xbox and Play Station. Even the Nintendo consoles don't hold a candle to the Xbox, Play Station and PC Gaming. The size constraints imposed by mobile devices pretty much make it impossible. 
    Unfortunately, when you said Nintendo consoles ‘don’t hold a candle to the XBox, Playstation...’ your otherwise legitimate criticism that phones/tablets are not decent gaming devices was discredited. Breath of the Wild has received high praise among serious gamers, and other games like Splatoon are absolutely top tier (except in the small minds of people who think that ‘cute = not excellent’).

    Phone/tablet games are largely hindered by the lack of a dedicated controller, and this lack of dedicated controller means the games can only have so much depth, and games which try to have depth while using a small touchscreen as a controller are usually awkward to play.

    At no point in my comment did I state or otherwise indicate that "cute" games aren't excellent games. They certainly can be. Look at Candy Crush and Angry Birds. They are both hugely popular...or were...in the case of Angry Birds. 

    Frankly, I don't know what a "serious gamer" is and why "serious gamers" enjoying the latest Zelda should indicate that a console's hardware is as powerful as another console's hardware. As previously stated, how much people enjoy a game has nothing to do with what kind of hardware power it takes to run the game. My criticism of the Switch is solely around the hardware, not the games. The fact of the matter is, the Switch is limited to 1080x60fps. PC's, Xbox's, and Play Stations all do 4K gaming now. They have additional 3D features that the Switch doesn't have. The Switch is probably much closer to the power of an iPad or iPhone than to one of the higher-powered consoles. 
  • Reply 39 of 43
    tylersdadtylersdad Posts: 310member
    slurpy said:
    Some of you are fucking hilarious, shitting on the (amazing) gaming capabilities of an ultrathin device that fits in your pocket, and whose primary function isn't even gaming. No, obviously the iPhone, with a mobile chip, isn't on par with the latest consoles. But it's pretty damned impressive in it's own right, considering it's a phone. We've come a long, long way in 10 years, and graphics progress on this front is unmatched. 

    As for you people bitching about the controllers, what the hell is wrong with buying nice bluetooth controller like the Nimbus? I use it to game on my Apple TV all the time, and it works great. Why does Apple need to make one themselves? So that all the "hardcore" gamerz can shit on them non-stop because the D-Pad or the analog sticks aren't to their liking? There's tons of MFI options out there that work just fine. Apple has done a great job with their APIs and with relentlessly pushing the capabilities of their GPUs, in order to create a strong foundation and platform for games. They've done more for mobile gaming than anyone else, and they're not obligated to develop their own console with sounds like it would be a massive headache for little payoff. 

    Since most of us have these ultrathin devices, we're not shitting on them. We're merely pointing out the obvious: Mobile devices have not and will not catch up with higher-end game consoles such as the Xbox and the Play Station. Even if technology enabled putting the power of an Xbox into a small, mobile-capable chip, the larger devices will be able to use larger chips that have more capabilities. 
    edited March 2018 singularitymuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 40 of 43
    Metal has far better functionality than DirectX and OpenGL. Metal beats DirectX because it is cross platform. OpenGL lags development compared to Metal and is less resource intensive. That’s why Apple pushed its development over OpenGL.

    The only thing that needs to happen to push iOS gaming over consoles is developers to make console quality games using Metal and get them off PS4 and XBox which are pretty much dead platforms now.

    As for game controllers... what... the... hell... are... you... talking about? You do realise that there are a number of game controllers available for iOS and there’s even some PS4 and XBox controllers that can work with iOS.

    None of the complaints about iOS gaming is Apple’s fault it’s developer’s faults. Apple’s given them all the tools to make greater than console level games but developers insist on porting tedious gaming titles to iOS instead of really showing what the platform is capable of. I mean do we really need another Doom and Quake Arena clone on the market? These aren’t show stopping games they’re tedious drivel that makes money, that’s the only reason they exist. They’re the same old games as Doom and Quake arena wrapped up in nicer graphics. Those games will be tired of fast until the next Doom clone comes out.

    Come on developers, put your thinking caps on and make something truly spectacular for iOS then you’ll see a real market shift. Pretty graphics a game does not make.
    watto_cobra
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