Under your definition, is there anything WayTools could say that doesn't boil down to mere "expectation"? If they said "I promise to [X]" or "I guarantee you that [Y]" or "I assure you that [Z]", would you say those were only expectations? After all, even if they said that I could always use your argument that some unforeseen event could still occur to prevent it and thus their promise/guarantee/assurance was merely an expectation.
Pretty much most of these kinds of things are actually expectations. Which is demonstrated by my example. Heck, even if someone "promises", is it only by lying that it may not happen? Going back to the example, if the spouse PROMISED to pick them up at 5:00 but was killed on the way there in a traffic accident, are people at the funeral going to morn the person whose last act was to "lie" or "break a promise"? I don't think so.
Ultimately it comes down to WHY something that was said did not actually happen.
Which is why I say that complaints about many delays is fine. Concern that there may be future delays is fine. But to insist it is "binary" as if the issue is simply between a yes/no answer with no consideration of other factors that are part of reality.
And I'll add that, in this particular case (shipping in 2019), we don't even know if they'll be wrong this time. Oh, I know it is easy to say something like, "Of course they won't ship because they have never achieved their GR estimates". But, unless they NEVER ship, that argument falls apart the moment they do ship. Past problems are valid reasons to be concerned, but they don't prove something will never ship.
Kahuna has now written a solid page worth of material intended to obfuscate the meaning of 'Yes' in response to the direct question, 'Will you ship in 2019?'
The Kahuna character is the voice of reason (can you imagine?) who steps in to make excuses when the Waytools_Support character (Mark Knighton) is unable to refrain from opening its big mouth and making promises it knows it cannot and will not keep.
Kahuna never touches the obvious point - that Mark Knighton certainly knows of some reasons, at the moment he answered that question, why the device may not or could not be released in 2019, but rather than be honest and qualify his answer appropriately, particularly after 4+ years of prior failed 'estimates' (a word I use only for the sake of argument), Mark chooses to once again lie by omission and answer unequivocally: 'Yes'.
Mark Knighton is a liar. This behavior is gaslighting 101. Look your victim in their lying eyes and tell them they do not see what they see, they do not hear what they hear.
There will be no Textblade. Not in 2019. Not in 2020. At best, Mark Knighton will soon be forced to refund everyone and likely bankrupt his little keyboard company that managed to burn well over $1,000,000 to produce about 131 prototypes, and that will be the end of it all.
Two pallets of aging Textblades with expired batteries. Millions of dollars collected from 10,000+ customers? 4+ years. No product shipped. No keys for kids. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.
AdamRoxby - Will 2019 finally be when we see the Textblade after all these years?
WayTools - Yes.
Waiting - This post by WT seems very different to me.
WayTools - It is.
Our comments do reflect a change in tone and perspective.
Clearly, once we’ve started mass shipping, we’ll be able to promise individual customers more specific timing. Before that, we provide an estimate based on our current knowledge.
However, the reason for the observable change in tone, is increased confidence based on two significant milestones that are now achieved -
1. We now have a large number of users that have validated and confirmed that the current software release functionality is indeed sufficient to ship.
2. We’ve now gotten through the majority of the firmware infrastructure migration that’s needed for general release.
These two milestones are very big things, and we couldn’t say them until just recently.
So we’ll switch over from estimates to more concrete dates once units begin going out in high volume, but the confidence is definitely going up that 2019 is viable because of the results we already have in hand right now.
i.e. it looks to us that the great majority of the work is now in the rear view mirror. Any time needed from this point forward is likely to be much shorter and quicker than what we’ve already worked through.
Hope this helps, and saves you guys a little back and forth debate.
OK. For you there is effectively no meaningful difference between "I expect to [X]", "I promise to [X]", "I assure you [X]", "I guarantee that [X]", etc. I suspected this to be the case, and it is nice to have it made explicit.
Please be aware that most people see meaningful differences between those phrases.
I am worried that I will not receive my TextBlade in 2019. I am asking them to reassure me--to allay my fears. By your reckoning, there is nothing that WayTools can say to reassure me.
I would imagine that @WayTools_Support hopes that their words hold more impact and inspire more confidence than that.
(Please stop hammering me with this "binary" point. I never said anything about it, and that was never my point.)
Edit to add: @WayTools_Support , I wrote this before seeing your response. Thank you for chiming in. I was hoping for something a little more confidence inspiring than "2019 is viable", but I'll allow that to temper my expectations.
Regarding shipments already made, those TextBlades are production units from high volume tools. This is obvious to the customers using them.
Using the term ‘prototype’ is contrived to be pejorative, and is at odds with the widely reported reality.
Those familiar with the cost of high volume tools, and extensive software development, know the costs invested are many tens of millions of dollars.
The repetitious harping on a 1 million dollar figure is observably ludicrous. It’s knowably impossible to do this kind of program scope on that budget.
These serial hit-posts are just part of his job. Oppo-PR must belittle and denigrate the work as part of the fud campaign.
No one who believes his posts will buy our product.
@WayTools_Support While I have you on the line, is it possible for my forum privileges to be reinstated? Or at least an explanation as to why my posting privileges were revoked?
Regarding shipments already made, those TextBlades are production units from high volume tools. This is obvious to the customers using them.
Using the term ‘prototype’ is contrived to be pejorative, and is at odds with the widely reported reality.
Those familiar with the cost of high volume tools, and extensive software development, know the costs invested are many tens of millions of dollars.
The repetitious harping on a 1 million dollar figure is observably ludicrous. It’s knowably impossible to do this kind of program scope on that budget.
These serial hit-posts are just part of his job. Oppo-PR must belittle and denigrate the work as part of the fud campaign.
No one who believes his posts will buy our product.
So this will resolve itself.
People use the term “prototype” in a similar way to using terms like “testing units” or “beta units”. In common usage, those terms would be interchangeable. Until such time as you ship your product (general release), you have yet to “ship” a single “product”. You have supplied test units to beta testing... the phrase “we have shipped... product...” is very, very dodgy, if not outright disingenuous; it is designed to imply something that is not so (to any reasonable outside observer). A potential customer with no background over the past 4 years would likely read that and infer that general release units had shipped - that is not the case. Using that terminology is deliberately obfuscating and varnishing the reality of the situation... that’s what pisses people off, you don’t tell a clear truth; i.e. “we haven’t shipped yet...” or “we are still stuck in testing... we genuinely believe we’ll ship this year as our testers have only minor bugs left which our coding team estimate they can squash in xxxx...” Why do you communicate this way? Only you can answer that; as a previous poster suggested, perhaps their is a strong and brittle ego along with the creative drive that doesn’t allow admitting fault... faults have occurred, no one can go back and change them, but refusing to acknowledge reality simply makes the refuser appear foolish to a reasonable outside observer (and potential customer); how you deal with problems is a mark of character - anyone can easily cope well when everything’s rosy...
That may be painful for Waytools to swallow (telling a “plain-speak” truth), but would be far more truthful in the eyes of customers than implying you’re farther along than you are... it’s the “weaseling” that pisses people off; fudging things to suggest an unreasonably rosy light (and the fudging/obfuscation is so blatantly clear - it isn’t fooling anyone). People don’t appreciate someone pissing on their leg and then be told by the pisser that it’s actually rain “after all, it’s liquid precipitation coming through the air to your leg, so technically, that urine can be considered rain...”; tends not to go over too well...
Edited to include a request; please do not force a refund on me. As you have previously stated, the decision on whether to enact a refund lies with me, the customer. If I’m willing or not to put up with this drama of truly epic proportions is entirely mine...
...we’ll switch over from estimates to more concrete dates once units begin going out in high volume, but the confidence is definitely going up that 2019 is viable because of the results we already have in hand right now.
Another 'estimate'. "Confidence is going up that 2019 is viable."
That is an unambiguous walk back from "Yes. It is." So the latter now stands. They are not definitively promising 2019 as the release date.
I told you so people!
Mark my words. Bookmark this page. There will be no Textblade in 2019. There will be no Textblade in 2020. They. Are. Liars. Do not give them your money.
Regarding shipments already made, those TextBlades are production units from high volume tools. This is obvious to the customers using them.
You are lying. There is much nuance in this which you refuse to reveal. Kahunas list indicates there are treg testers with non-final hardware. There is the question of date of manufacture, hardware revision version, etc. You have pre-production units produced in small quantity. 131 according to Kahuna, your CPO (Chief Propagandist Officer).
Using the term ‘prototype’ is contrived to be pejorative, and is at odds with the widely reported reality.
Its only pejorative if you say so. I use the term to describe reality as it is. You have not mass produced this product. Some machinery sitting idle somewhere for the last (who knows how many months or years) waiting to be spun up is beside the point. All you have right now is an extremely small number of prototypes.
Those familiar with the cost of high volume tools, and extensive software development, know the costs invested are many tens of millions of dollars. The repetitious harping on a 1 million dollar figure is observably ludicrous. It’s knowably impossible to do this kind of program scope on that budget.
I use the terms '10,000 customers' and '$1,000,000 in sales' to limit myself to the lowest known numbers, based on language spoken by you and Kahuna, so I would not be accused of exaggerating.
If you have 100,000 customers who spent $125 each on average, then gross revenue is $12,500,00, which means the per unit cost of every known TREG unit (131 of them) shipped to a paying customer is 131/125e5 = $95,419.84. I thought this seemed more pejorative than the examples I used, so I avoided it.
So is it true Mark? Have you pocketed an average of $95,419.84 for every unfinished prototype Textblade shipped to a customer over the last 4+ years?
Why don't you join the world of ethical business and start being open and honest about the details and extent of your debacle?
List the following:
total orders
average revenue per order
total customers refunded
total Textblades manufactured, classified by hardware revision
dates of batch (presumably) manufacture of all existing units
date of manufacture of existing units batteries
battery manufacturer expiration date of batteries
Shock the worldMark Knighton. Produce some tangible, credible, factual information which demonstrates that any claim you make can be trusted or relied upon.
These serial hit-posts are just part of his job. Oppo-PR must belittle and denigrate the work as part of the fud campaign.
I am one of your customers you disgusting paranoid liar. How dare you fabricate such nonsense about people who paid you in good faith. I gave you my money over 4 years ago. I do not reveal my order numbers because your modus operandi is to force refund any customer who criticizes your behavior. My only modus operandi as a customer is to hold you to the original terms, and to maintain a a claim against you, because you are a liar and you have really pissed me off (I do not believe I have been vague about that fact).
Two pallets of aging Textblades with expired batteries. Millions of dollars collected from 100,000+ customers? $95,419.84 in revenue per prototype test units (131) supplied? 4+ years. No final product shipped. No keys for kids. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.
These serial hit-posts are just part of his job. Oppo-PR must belittle and denigrate the work as part of the fud campaign.
Just curious - does anybody have any idea or theory as to what 'Oppo-PR' campaign this lunatic might be referring to? Is there any known individual, or group, or company, that is actually producing a similar competing product and is known to have spoken negatively about the Textblade in the context of a competitor, and thus planted these seeds of paranoia in Mark Knighton's delusional mind? I am aware of none.
I think that sentence speaks volumes. Mark Knighton is so messed up in the head, he can only conclude that the pissed off customers he has lied to and refused to ship a product to for 4+ years are part of an opposition campaign. Its totally whacky. Bizarre. Ridiculous. Stupid.
Most important of all - the falsity of the accusation is totally transparent to everyone reading this. And Mark Knighton sincerely does not seem to realize that. I nor anyone I am aware of have ever been opposed to Waytools success. After all, I gave them my money, and trusted their lies for 4+ years. Now, however, I am opposed to them lying to and taking advantage of any more people.
This thread has been very productive overall in revealing the true character of this man.
Two pallets of aging Textblades with expired batteries. Millions of dollars collected from 100,000+ customers? $95,419.84 in revenue per prototype test units (131) supplied? 4+ years. No final product shipped. No keys for kids. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.
The terms used in industry for physical hardware products work like this, sequentially -
Mock-up —> Breadboard —> Prototype —> Test Samples —> Pre-Production —> Pilot Production —> Production
- Mock-ups through Test Samples are all made without production tools, by hand fabrication, 3D printing, machining, or temporary castings.
- Pre-production uses some test shots from some of the tools together with improvised parts for testing.
- Pilot production uses the tooled parts, before all the volume assembly processes are sorted out.
- Production - is from the actual molds, dies, and assembly processes.
Objectively and Unequivocally - the TextBlades shipped to treg customers are Production. There’s no wordplay wiggle-room at all. They can’t be anything else.
Made from production molds and dies, using production jigs and fixtures, through production labor processes, and tested with production QA fixtures.
We’ve also already produced many thousands of parts from those tools - much more than needed for every single preorder.
And production also routinely goes through revisions with experience. iPhone hardware gets revisions just about every month. It’s still production.
The narrative that tries to re-label all those results ‘prototype’ is designed to deny reality. To diminish the achievements of the team members who did it.
The people saying this bogus stuff, know the difference. They persist in saying it, intentionally, even though they’re smart enough to know better.
Nothing dead needs killing. Yet there sure are a lot of folks spending a lot of time here trying to kill something they keep saying isn’t even real.
TBD > Kahuna has now written a solid page worth of material intended to obfuscate the meaning of 'Yes'
Nope. Just showing that it isn't as simple as you pretend it is, with an example anyone can understand. You are always free to show how a person in the example I gave was lying. I don't think you can do it.
TBD > Mark Knighton certainly knows of some reasons, at the moment he answered that question, why the device may not or could not be released in 2019
It's just like a person who says "Yes" that they will pick someone up also knows, if questioned, that many things may prevent that. Yet they don't list them if they are pretty confident.
TBD > There will be no Textblade. Not in 2019. Not in 2020.
Considering your practice of keeping your order while ridiculing anyone who places an order, let's take a different approach. How about you publicly vow to cancel your order in WayTools does ship in 2019 or 2020? Just so we can tell if you really believe what you say (which doesn't mean anyone else has to believe it!).
Each time TextBladeDenier’s posts make more obvious the gig he’s working, and we point it out, there’s an even more shrill repetition of narrative to deny it.
BTW - Tesla did in fact get a court-ordered injunction against the dude in the Bay Area. He was stalking them, on land and online. Paid by short selling of Tesla stock.
The judge ruled that he’s not permitted within 100 yards of any Tesla facilities.
But what the heck, TextBladeDenier will say it was all just ... in Elon Musk’s paranoid imagination.
The battle against English usage continues unabated:
prototype
/ˈprəʊtətʌɪp/
noun
noun: prototype; plural noun: prototypes
1.
a first or preliminary version of a device or vehicle from which other forms are developed.
"the firm is testing a prototype of the weapon"
the first, original, or typical form of something; an archetype.
"these objects are the prototypes of a category of rapidly spinning neutron stars"
synonyms:
original, first example, first model, master, mould, template, framework, mock-up, pattern, type; More
If you think that this description is "pejorative" rather than descriptive, I hope this dictionary definition will educate. If you don't actually believe it's "pejorative" but are just playing the appeal to motive card once again, that's getting a bit old.
BTW - Tesla did in fact get a court-ordered injunction against the dude in the Bay Area. He was stalking them, on land and online. Paid by short selling of Tesla stock. The judge ruled that he’s not permitted within 100 yards of any Tesla facilities. But what the heck, TextBladeDenier will say it was all just ... in Elon Musk’s paranoid imagination. The judge didn’t think so.
Reminder: You are not Tesla. You are not Elon Musk
Mark Knighton said:
Each time TextBladeDenier’s posts make more obvious the gig he’s working, and we point it out, there’s an even more shrill repetition of narrative to deny it.
When his game is outed, he gets more uppity.
Once again, Mark's choice to resort to this style of ridiculous attack says all anyone needs to know about the character and mindset of the individual.
And the use of the word 'uppity' is quite peculiar and offensive here, given the racial connotation.
Apparently I am pressing some interesting buttons on the malformed personality of this individual.
WORD ORIGIN AND HISTORY FOR UPPITY
uppity
adj.
1880, from up + -ity; originally used by blacks of other blacks felt to be too self-assertive (first recorded use is in "UncleRemus"). The parallel British variant uppish (1670s) originally meant "lavish;" the sense of "conceited, arrogant" being firstrecorded 1734.
WTS > However, the reason for the observable change in tone, is increased confidence based on two significant milestones that are now achieved
> 1. We now have a large number of users that have validated and confirmed that the current software release functionality is indeed sufficient to ship.
> 2. We’ve now gotten through the majority of the firmware infrastructure migration that’s needed for general release.
This deals with my point about what "Yes" means in the real world. As you point out, you have more confidence in the projection this time. You give two key reasons for it. Just as the person saying "Yes, I will pick you up at 5:00" does not list all the possible reasons it might not happen that are out of their control if they are pretty confident that they can. I do not know if your confidence is warranted. Even if it is warranted, it doesn't mean a surprise can't happen.
For those not keeping up, I believe this is the first time you have specifically said the "current software functionality" is good enough to ship.
Of course, we need to combine that with what you have also said - that you need to do the rewrite to make support following GR be practical. I'm sure some don't care and that's understandable. But so is your position on this.
patientlywaiting >OK. For you there is effectively no meaningful difference between "I expect to [X]", "I promise to [X]", "I assure you [X]", "I guarantee that [X]"
They are different, but only in degree of confidence of the statement. And all can be wrong, without someone lying.
Just as, before the first Treg units were released (also late), I very carefully followed any statement that would help show there was reason to be more confidence that it was getting closer. I forget the specifics now, but I remember following how a hardware or firmware change resulted in some problem being "fixed". But at first you can't know if it is truly solved, so I was paying attention to how long they were reporting that it was still working. And at some point, it was working long enough that Treg happened. I certain got more confident that would happen as the positive reports came in. Obviously WT got more confident to since they shipped them.
So, as I describe in the part of the post to Waytools, they are more confident. Enough to say "yes". Probably not enough to say they "guarantee" it! At least I never would.
PW > I am worried that I will not receive my TextBlade in 2019. I am asking them to reassure me--to allay my fears. By your reckoning, there is nothing that WayTools can say to reassure me.
Perfectly understandable.I doubt they can allay your fears. Even with my increasing confidence leading up to the Treg release, I was always afraid as to whether that would happen.
> (Please stop hammering me with this "binary" point. I never said anything about it, and that was never my point.)
But that was my point when you entered the discussion.
I feel we need a whole lot less "binary" arguments - they rarely exist, but they are often used to make attacks. While Yes/No may be binary, it is NOT binary that if you say Yes and it doesn't happen, it means you lied.
TBD > There will be no Textblade. Not in 2019. Not in 2020.
Considering your practice of keeping your order while ridiculing anyone who places an order, let's take a different approach. How about you publicly vow to cancel your order in WayTools does ship in 2019 or 2020? Just so we can tell if you really believe what you say (which doesn't mean anyone else has to believe it!).
Why would I do that? I have repeatedly and clearly stated that my intent is to hold Waytools accountable to the original terms of sale, which is reasonable under any circumstances, and to retain a claim so I can sue if absolutely necessary. I am among the earliest customers.
There is no contradiction in my being one of the original purchasers who waited 4+ years while relying upon Marks lies, and my desire now to caution newcomers (after Waytools launched a renewed PR campaign via Appleinsider) not to get pulled into the same debacle as thousands of others.
Two pallets of aging Textblades with expired batteries. Millions of dollars collected from 100,000+ customers? $95,419.84 in revenue per prototype test units (131) supplied? 4+ years. No final product shipped. No keys for kids. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.
It’s just fascinating how co-anons Rolanbek and TextBladeDenier are so remarkably parallel and synchronous.
How both relish the rewriting of the words of others, and the redefining of professional terms of art for the manufacturing industry.
Rather odd how both perpetually make the case for how these ‘lying liar’ scoundrels don’t make their imaginary product, and are stealing money, while they both concurrently chastise the maker for ‘forcing’ customers to take their money back in refunds.
Even more baffling is how both of them in lock-step, each insist on leaving their money with these alleged thieves, to get the non-product, that’s not production, and will never ship.
And how both go to great lengths to hide their identities and orders so they don’t get ‘punished” with a refund of their “stolen” money. And this is just to make sure they can file a claim to recover said money which they refuse to take back.
And all of this playing out on the comment section of an article about this imaginary product, which didn’t get produced, and didn’t ship to anyone at all, and certainly not to the writer who didn’t get it, but somehow managed to find it superb and loves writing on it.
If you’re having trouble following all this, perhaps it’s because that is precisely the plan.
Confusion and distraction are often the bedfellows of deception.
patientlywaiting > OK. For you there is effectively no meaningful difference between "I expect to [X]", "I promise to [X]", "I assure you [X]", "I guarantee that [X]"
They are different, but only in degree of confidence of the statement. And all can be wrong, without someone lying.
You are fixated on the notion of 'lying' as a 'binary' choice, without acknowledging that in society there are consequences in those 'degrees' of confidence. You do not have to prove someone is lying in order to hold them responsible for failing to uphold their word.
If you 'guarantee' something to someone, that guarantee, whether it is just a personal guarantee to your wife that you will do something, or a professional guarantee to a colleague, or a legal guarantee in a contract - all can have serious consequences when the guarantee is broken.
You are a master of spin Kahuna, so you use the innocent example of guaranteeing a spouse you will pick up the kids and then getting into a car accident. You intentionally pick the most excusable scenario.
Your analogy would be much closer to the truth if the example was guaranteeing a spouse you will pick up the kids, then stopping at a bar along the way to get drunk, and forgetting about the appointment entirely. Were you lying? Did you know you were going to have an urge to get drunk on the way to pick up the kids? (Kahuna - maybe not, so it was not lying). Did you know you were going to forget about the appointment after you got drunk? (Kahuna - maybe not, so it was not lying). Did you know with certainty that when you finally continued on your way to the school you were going to wreck the car because you were drunk? (Kahuna - maybe not, so it was not lying).
It is ridiculous of course, as are all of your cringeworthy analogies and spinster arguments.
Two pallets of aging Textblades with expired batteries. Millions of dollars collected from 100,000+ customers? $95,419.84 in revenue per prototype test units (131) supplied? 4+ years. No final product shipped. No keys for kids. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.
Comments
Which is why I say that complaints about many delays is fine. Concern that there may be future delays is fine. But to insist it is "binary" as if the issue is simply between a yes/no answer with no consideration of other factors that are part of reality.
And I'll add that, in this particular case (shipping in 2019), we don't even know if they'll be wrong this time. Oh, I know it is easy to say something like, "Of course they won't ship because they have never achieved their GR estimates". But, unless they NEVER ship, that argument falls apart the moment they do ship. Past problems are valid reasons to be concerned, but they don't prove something will never ship.
The Kahuna character is the voice of reason (can you imagine?) who steps in to make excuses when the Waytools_Support character (Mark Knighton) is unable to refrain from opening its big mouth and making promises it knows it cannot and will not keep.
Kahuna never touches the obvious point - that Mark Knighton certainly knows of some reasons, at the moment he answered that question, why the device may not or could not be released in 2019, but rather than be honest and qualify his answer appropriately, particularly after 4+ years of prior failed 'estimates' (a word I use only for the sake of argument), Mark chooses to once again lie by omission and answer unequivocally: 'Yes'.
Mark Knighton is a liar. This behavior is gaslighting 101. Look your victim in their lying eyes and tell them they do not see what they see, they do not hear what they hear.
There will be no Textblade. Not in 2019. Not in 2020. At best, Mark Knighton will soon be forced to refund everyone and likely bankrupt his little keyboard company that managed to burn well over $1,000,000 to produce about 131 prototypes, and that will be the end of it all.
Two pallets of aging Textblades with expired batteries. Millions of dollars collected from 10,000+ customers? 4+ years. No product shipped. No keys for kids. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.
To your question, hopefully this will help you.
The exchange you’re asking about is below:
AdamRoxby - Will 2019 finally be when we see the Textblade after all these years?
WayTools - Yes.
Waiting - This post by WT seems very different to me.
WayTools - It is.
Our comments do reflect a change in tone and perspective.
Clearly, once we’ve started mass shipping, we’ll be able to promise individual customers more specific timing. Before that, we provide an estimate based on our current knowledge.
However, the reason for the observable change in tone, is increased confidence based on two significant milestones that are now achieved -
1. We now have a large number of users that have validated and confirmed that the current software release functionality is indeed sufficient to ship.
2. We’ve now gotten through the majority of the firmware infrastructure migration that’s needed for general release.
These two milestones are very big things, and we couldn’t say them until just recently.
So we’ll switch over from estimates to more concrete dates once units begin going out in high volume, but the confidence is definitely going up that 2019 is viable because of the results we already have in hand right now.
i.e. it looks to us that the great majority of the work is now in the rear view mirror. Any time needed from this point forward is likely to be much shorter and quicker than what we’ve already worked through.
Hope this helps, and saves you guys a little back and forth debate.
Thanks
Please be aware that most people see meaningful differences between those phrases.
I am worried that I will not receive my TextBlade in 2019. I am asking them to reassure me--to allay my fears. By your reckoning, there is nothing that WayTools can say to reassure me.
I would imagine that @WayTools_Support hopes that their words hold more impact and inspire more confidence than that.
(Please stop hammering me with this "binary" point. I never said anything about it, and that was never my point.)
Edit to add: @WayTools_Support , I wrote this before seeing your response. Thank you for chiming in. I was hoping for something a little more confidence inspiring than "2019 is viable", but I'll allow that to temper my expectations.
Regarding shipments already made, those TextBlades are production units from high volume tools. This is obvious to the customers using them.
Using the term ‘prototype’ is contrived to be pejorative, and is at odds with the widely reported reality.
Those familiar with the cost of high volume tools, and extensive software development, know the costs invested are many tens of millions of dollars.
The repetitious harping on a 1 million dollar figure is observably ludicrous. It’s knowably impossible to do this kind of program scope on that budget.
These serial hit-posts are just part of his job. Oppo-PR must belittle and denigrate the work as part of the fud campaign.
No one who believes his posts will buy our product.
So this will resolve itself.
That may be painful for Waytools to swallow (telling a “plain-speak” truth), but would be far more truthful in the eyes of customers than implying you’re farther along than you are... it’s the “weaseling” that pisses people off; fudging things to suggest an unreasonably rosy light (and the fudging/obfuscation is so blatantly clear - it isn’t fooling anyone). People don’t appreciate someone pissing on their leg and then be told by the pisser that it’s actually rain “after all, it’s liquid precipitation coming through the air to your leg, so technically, that urine can be considered rain...”; tends not to go over too well...
Edited to include a request; please do not force a refund on me. As you have previously stated, the decision on whether to enact a refund lies with me, the customer. If I’m willing or not to put up with this drama of truly epic proportions is entirely mine...
Now, days later:
Another 'estimate'. "Confidence is going up that 2019 is viable."
That is an unambiguous walk back from "Yes. It is." So the latter now stands. They are not definitively promising 2019 as the release date.
I told you so people!
Mark my words. Bookmark this page. There will be no Textblade in 2019. There will be no Textblade in 2020. They. Are. Liars. Do not give them your money.
You are lying. There is much nuance in this which you refuse to reveal. Kahunas list indicates there are treg testers with non-final hardware. There is the question of date of manufacture, hardware revision version, etc. You have pre-production units produced in small quantity. 131 according to Kahuna, your CPO (Chief Propagandist Officer).
Its only pejorative if you say so. I use the term to describe reality as it is. You have not mass produced this product. Some machinery sitting idle somewhere for the last (who knows how many months or years) waiting to be spun up is beside the point. All you have right now is an extremely small number of prototypes.
I use the terms '10,000 customers' and '$1,000,000 in sales' to limit myself to the lowest known numbers, based on language spoken by you and Kahuna, so I would not be accused of exaggerating.
If you have 100,000 customers who spent $125 each on average, then gross revenue is $12,500,00, which means the per unit cost of every known TREG unit (131 of them) shipped to a paying customer is 131/125e5 = $95,419.84. I thought this seemed more pejorative than the examples I used, so I avoided it.
So is it true Mark? Have you pocketed an average of $95,419.84 for every unfinished prototype Textblade shipped to a customer over the last 4+ years?
Why don't you join the world of ethical business and start being open and honest about the details and extent of your debacle?
List the following:
Shock the world Mark Knighton. Produce some tangible, credible, factual information which demonstrates that any claim you make can be trusted or relied upon.
I am one of your customers you disgusting paranoid liar. How dare you fabricate such nonsense about people who paid you in good faith. I gave you my money over 4 years ago. I do not reveal my order numbers because your modus operandi is to force refund any customer who criticizes your behavior. My only modus operandi as a customer is to hold you to the original terms, and to maintain a a claim against you, because you are a liar and you have really pissed me off (I do not believe I have been vague about that fact).
Two pallets of aging Textblades with expired batteries. Millions of dollars collected from 100,000+ customers? $95,419.84 in revenue per prototype test units (131) supplied? 4+ years. No final product shipped. No keys for kids. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.
Just curious - does anybody have any idea or theory as to what 'Oppo-PR' campaign this lunatic might be referring to? Is there any known individual, or group, or company, that is actually producing a similar competing product and is known to have spoken negatively about the Textblade in the context of a competitor, and thus planted these seeds of paranoia in Mark Knighton's delusional mind? I am aware of none.
I think that sentence speaks volumes. Mark Knighton is so messed up in the head, he can only conclude that the pissed off customers he has lied to and refused to ship a product to for 4+ years are part of an opposition campaign. Its totally whacky. Bizarre. Ridiculous. Stupid.
Most important of all - the falsity of the accusation is totally transparent to everyone reading this. And Mark Knighton sincerely does not seem to realize that. I nor anyone I am aware of have ever been opposed to Waytools success. After all, I gave them my money, and trusted their lies for 4+ years. Now, however, I am opposed to them lying to and taking advantage of any more people.
This thread has been very productive overall in revealing the true character of this man.
Two pallets of aging Textblades with expired batteries. Millions of dollars collected from 100,000+ customers? $95,419.84 in revenue per prototype test units (131) supplied? 4+ years. No final product shipped. No keys for kids. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.
weirdosmurf post 568 and tbd posts 563, 569 -
The terms used in industry for physical hardware products work like this, sequentially -
Mock-up —> Breadboard —> Prototype —> Test Samples —> Pre-Production —> Pilot Production —> Production
- Mock-ups through Test Samples are all made without production tools, by hand fabrication, 3D printing, machining, or temporary castings.
- Pre-production uses some test shots from some of the tools together with improvised parts for testing.
- Pilot production uses the tooled parts, before all the volume assembly processes are sorted out.
- Production - is from the actual molds, dies, and assembly processes.
Objectively and Unequivocally - the TextBlades shipped to treg customers are Production. There’s no wordplay wiggle-room at all. They can’t be anything else.
Made from production molds and dies, using production jigs and fixtures, through production labor processes, and tested with production QA fixtures.
We’ve also already produced many thousands of parts from those tools - much more than needed for every single preorder.
And production also routinely goes through revisions with experience. iPhone hardware gets revisions just about every month. It’s still production.
The narrative that tries to re-label all those results ‘prototype’ is designed to deny reality. To diminish the achievements of the team members who did it.
The people saying this bogus stuff, know the difference. They persist in saying it, intentionally, even though they’re smart enough to know better.
Nothing dead needs killing. Yet there sure are a lot of folks spending a lot of time here trying to kill something they keep saying isn’t even real.
Blimey!
Nope. Just showing that it isn't as simple as you pretend it is, with an example anyone can understand. You are always free to show how a person in the example I gave was lying. I don't think you can do it.
TBD > Mark Knighton certainly knows of some reasons, at the moment he answered that question, why the device may not or could not be released in 2019
It's just like a person who says "Yes" that they will pick someone up also knows, if questioned, that many things may prevent that. Yet they don't list them if they are pretty confident.
Considering your practice of keeping your order while ridiculing anyone who places an order, let's take a different approach. How about you publicly vow to cancel your order in WayTools does ship in 2019 or 2020? Just so we can tell if you really believe what you say (which doesn't mean anyone else has to believe it!).
Each time TextBladeDenier’s posts make more obvious the gig he’s working, and we point it out, there’s an even more shrill repetition of narrative to deny it.
When his game is outed, he gets more uppity.
The judge ruled that he’s not permitted within 100 yards of any Tesla facilities.
But what the heck, TextBladeDenier will say it was all just ... in Elon Musk’s paranoid imagination.
The judge didn’t think so.
R
Once again, Mark's choice to resort to this style of ridiculous attack says all anyone needs to know about the character and mindset of the individual.
And the use of the word 'uppity' is quite peculiar and offensive here, given the racial connotation.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/11/yep-uppity-racist/335160/
Apparently I am pressing some interesting buttons on the malformed personality of this individual.
uppity
1880, from up + -ity; originally used by blacks of other blacks felt to be too self-assertive (first recorded use is in "UncleRemus"). The parallel British variant uppish (1670s) originally meant "lavish;" the sense of "conceited, arrogant" being firstrecorded 1734.
> 1. We now have a large number of users that have validated and confirmed that the current software release functionality is indeed sufficient to ship.
> 2. We’ve now gotten through the majority of the firmware infrastructure migration that’s needed for general release.
This deals with my point about what "Yes" means in the real world. As you point out, you have more confidence in the projection this time. You give two key reasons for it. Just as the person saying "Yes, I will pick you up at 5:00" does not list all the possible reasons it might not happen that are out of their control if they are pretty confident that they can. I do not know if your confidence is warranted. Even if it is warranted, it doesn't mean a surprise can't happen.
For those not keeping up, I believe this is the first time you have specifically said the "current software functionality" is good enough to ship.
Of course, we need to combine that with what you have also said - that you need to do the rewrite to make support following GR be practical. I'm sure some don't care and that's understandable. But so is your position on this.
They are different, but only in degree of confidence of the statement. And all can be wrong, without someone lying.
Just as, before the first Treg units were released (also late), I very carefully followed any statement that would help show there was reason to be more confidence that it was getting closer. I forget the specifics now, but I remember following how a hardware or firmware change resulted in some problem being "fixed". But at first you can't know if it is truly solved, so I was paying attention to how long they were reporting that it was still working. And at some point, it was working long enough that Treg happened. I certain got more confident that would happen as the positive reports came in. Obviously WT got more confident to since they shipped them.
So, as I describe in the part of the post to Waytools, they are more confident. Enough to say "yes". Probably not enough to say they "guarantee" it! At least I never would.
PW > I am worried that I will not receive my TextBlade in 2019. I am asking them to reassure me--to allay my fears. By your reckoning, there is nothing that WayTools can say to reassure me.
Perfectly understandable.I doubt they can allay your fears. Even with my increasing confidence leading up to the Treg release, I was always afraid as to whether that would happen.
> (Please stop hammering me with this "binary" point. I never said anything about it, and that was never my point.)
But that was my point when you entered the discussion.
I feel we need a whole lot less "binary" arguments - they rarely exist, but they are often used to make attacks. While Yes/No may be binary, it is NOT binary that if you say Yes and it doesn't happen, it means you lied.
There is no contradiction in my being one of the original purchasers who waited 4+ years while relying upon Marks lies, and my desire now to caution newcomers (after Waytools launched a renewed PR campaign via Appleinsider) not to get pulled into the same debacle as thousands of others.
Two pallets of aging Textblades with expired batteries. Millions of dollars collected from 100,000+ customers? $95,419.84 in revenue per prototype test units (131) supplied? 4+ years. No final product shipped. No keys for kids. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.
It’s just fascinating how co-anons Rolanbek and TextBladeDenier are so remarkably parallel and synchronous.
How both relish the rewriting of the words of others, and the redefining of professional terms of art for the manufacturing industry.
Rather odd how both perpetually make the case for how these ‘lying liar’ scoundrels don’t make their imaginary product, and are stealing money, while they both concurrently chastise the maker for ‘forcing’ customers to take their money back in refunds.
Even more baffling is how both of them in lock-step, each insist on leaving their money with these alleged thieves, to get the non-product, that’s not production, and will never ship.
And how both go to great lengths to hide their identities and orders so they don’t get ‘punished” with a refund of their “stolen” money. And this is just to make sure they can file a claim to recover said money which they refuse to take back.
And all of this playing out on the comment section of an article about this imaginary product, which didn’t get produced, and didn’t ship to anyone at all, and certainly not to the writer who didn’t get it, but somehow managed to find it superb and loves writing on it.
If you’re having trouble following all this, perhaps it’s because that is precisely the plan.
Confusion and distraction are often the bedfellows of deception.
If you 'guarantee' something to someone, that guarantee, whether it is just a personal guarantee to your wife that you will do something, or a professional guarantee to a colleague, or a legal guarantee in a contract - all can have serious consequences when the guarantee is broken.
You are a master of spin Kahuna, so you use the innocent example of guaranteeing a spouse you will pick up the kids and then getting into a car accident. You intentionally pick the most excusable scenario.
Your analogy would be much closer to the truth if the example was guaranteeing a spouse you will pick up the kids, then stopping at a bar along the way to get drunk, and forgetting about the appointment entirely. Were you lying? Did you know you were going to have an urge to get drunk on the way to pick up the kids? (Kahuna - maybe not, so it was not lying). Did you know you were going to forget about the appointment after you got drunk? (Kahuna - maybe not, so it was not lying). Did you know with certainty that when you finally continued on your way to the school you were going to wreck the car because you were drunk? (Kahuna - maybe not, so it was not lying).
It is ridiculous of course, as are all of your cringeworthy analogies and spinster arguments.
Two pallets of aging Textblades with expired batteries. Millions of dollars collected from 100,000+ customers? $95,419.84 in revenue per prototype test units (131) supplied? 4+ years. No final product shipped. No keys for kids. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.