I already did today. It's there for anyone to see.
Hmmm, I did see that and it isn’t exactly treating Waytools the same way you treat alexonline... (or several others here...) one gets a thorough tickling with a feather duster whereas the other gets blather and bluster... I’ll leave it to readers to surmise which is which...
If we’re not to continue making you the centre of attention (as you said in post 1221 that it isn’t important to you):
I said:
> Is being the centre of the issue important to you?
...then I’d ask your opinion of Waytools, the sneaky unicorn/TextBlade (I once saw a unicorn and no one can prove I didn’t! I was 4 years old...) as it pertains to the following/previous:
I said: >What I am in this particular context is a customer of Waytools who is frustrated and feels poorly served by the company. The company does not appear keen to engage and is extremely poor at customer relations and is extremely (overly) sensitive to criticism. The company have been extremely vague in their use of timeframes - so much so that they insist (with you as a staunch defender) they have never actually missed a deadline since they never actually gave a deadline; merely an estimate... and yet a significant number of customers feel they were deceived. The company dangles a carrot (early adopter gift of “significant value”) out without stating what it is whilst at the same time urging dissatisfied people to use the refund button; that denies people the ability to make an informed decision by keeping them uninformed about a key piece of information. And on the point of refunds, the company states (on this forum) the decision to keep an order or seek a refund sits entirely with the customer and yet that same company has unilaterally enforced refunds to customers who have vented their displeasure. Last and by no means least, the company maintains a forum (complete with a “rants” section) and yet a number of customers who have “ranted” have been shadow banned from the forum, silencing their dissent - anyserious dissent. There are more, but I can’t sit here typing on an Internet forum all day (not typed on a TextBlade btw)... I have work to crack on with...
>All of this is quite uncool and certainly justifies the voices here complaining. Attacking the messengers and changing the frame of reference in order to validate attacking the messengers doesn’t change the validity of those complaints.
As for:
dabigkahuna said: When someone brings in tangential points which are making someone the issue with false claims, I'll respond. Cause and effect. The solution is not for me to let you do it and me to ignore the false statements. The solution is for you or others not to make the false claims. Simple.
Why I’d point out that what you refer to cause and effect is actually a little more complicated than that... it’s more a case of cause and effect, and effect and effect and effect and effect and effect and effect and effect (...this goes on for a while... it’s a kind of chicken and egg/Russian nesting dolls kind of thing... ) Where is the original “tangential point”? Well that’s an existential question if ever I’ve hear one...
You feel you’re responding/reacting to a reaction to a reaction to a reaction [etc.] which is sort of how WW1 started... not really all that sensible, but that’s what happens with reaction for it’s own sake if pushed to the ultimate conclusion. Most children grow out of the “but he pushed me first... so it was ok for me to push Chester down the stairs and crack his skull...” in about the fourth grade, but others take considerably longer; humans aren’t cookie-cutter creatures... I would refer you back to my previous suggestion involving big-boy pants and deep water (best way to get me to stop posting with a juvenile tone/bent - another “cause and effect” - although I admit, some enjoy the patter...)
As for your last paragraph: Why would changing the word one I rarely use to one I probably use even less be better? The essence is the same, but that's because both would be false...
I really need to ask; are you being deliberately ironic? Because if you are, it’s a masterpiece of hilarity... If you meant that to be funny, well played sir... well played indeed [golf clap]; that’s genuinely funny. If you didn’t mean it to be ironical or funny... well... ummm... perhaps you’ll get there one day, keep trying and keep your chin up (in the meantime, learn to human...)
Hmmm, I did see that and it isn’t exactly treating Waytools the same way you treat alexonline... (or several others here...) one gets a thorough tickling with a feather duster whereas the other gets blather and bluster.
But it is the same. The supposed difference you see is because WT isn't making weird psychological attacks, or claiming I keep using a word when, in fact, I don't. Nor do they claim I really never did any programming, etc, etc, etc. If they did, I'd treat them the same way I treat others who make up such accusations.
There are people here who I disagree with on many things who I am respectful to - the ones who don't make stuff up. All very consistent.
Hmmm, I did see that and it isn’t exactly treating Waytools the same way you treat alexonline... (or several others here...) one gets a thorough tickling with a feather duster whereas the other gets blather and bluster.
But it is the same. The supposed difference you see is because WT isn't making weird psychological attacks, or claiming I keep using a word when, in fact, I don't. Nor do they claim I really never did any programming, etc, etc, etc. If they did, I'd treat them the same way I treat others who make up such accusations.
There are people here who I disagree with on many things who I am respectful to - the ones who don't make stuff up. All very consistent.
Ahhhh... So we’re clear... it is all about you...
(btw, if you think blather and bluster are the same thing as tickling with a feather duster, you’re, once again, sorely mistaken, and going to the wrong clubs... I must say, I do find it rather thigh-slappingly hilarious that the utterly valid points I say get you riled up which end up with you attacking the messenger as “making stuff up”, but boy-bands... zip, nadda, zilch... not a fan either I’m guessing...?)
P.S. I don’t make weird psychological attacks. I make professionally informed observations based on many years of training and professional [medical] practice. You may well be many things, but you are most certainly not a trained Psychologist or Psychiatrist (not even a General Practitioner of Internal Medicine) and are not professionally equipped nor qualified to render judgement the quality or validity of my work. If you find those observations threatening your sense of self, or if you find them insulting, I’d refer you back to my own Achilles Heel I’ve just needed to learn to deal with; boy-bands... In fact, if you’d gone after me over unicorns or Maroon 5 you most definitely be on far safer ground...
It’s unwise of you to veer in to the psychological realm champ... your lack of knowledge or training in other areas may be harmless - heck i’ve seen dreadful musicians conduct national symphony orchestras with the audience being none the wiser - but treading in to the turf of the psychological will quickly expose your shortcomings no matter how many times you dismiss what you fail to understand as gobbledygook... just because you don’t see it doesn’t mean your underpants aren’t peaking out from under your trouser waistband... There are plenty of areas (medical ones too...) where I’m certainly well out of my depth (don’t get me started on endocrinology, I just scraped through there by the skin of my teeth) but behavioural psychology is not one of them...
Now we’ve that public service announcement out of the way... how’d you go with my paragraphs detailing poor conduct from the vendor? Are you dodging it because you quietly agree? It’s just unusual for you to be silent on a subject unless you’re actively trying to drag the narrative anywhere but to that subject...
if you’ve missed the last three re-postings, I’ll give it to you again; >What I am in this particular context is a customer of Waytools who is frustrated and feels poorly served by the company. The company does not appear keen to engage and is extremely poor at customer relations and is extremely (overly) sensitive to criticism. The company have been extremely vague in their use of timeframes - so much so that they insist (with you as a staunch defender) they have never actually missed a deadline since they never actually gave a deadline; merely an estimate... and yet a significant number of customers feel they were deceived. The company dangles a carrot (early adopter gift of “significant value”) out without stating what it is whilst at the same time urging dissatisfied people to use the refund button; that denies people the ability to make an informed decision by keeping them uninformed about a key piece of information. And on the point of refunds, the company states (on this forum) the decision to keep an order or seek a refund sits entirely with the customer and yet that same company has unilaterally enforced refunds to customers who have vented their displeasure. Last and by no means least, the company maintains a forum (complete with a “rants” section) and yet a number of customers who have “ranted” have been shadow banned from the forum, silencing their dissent - anyserious dissent. There are more, but I can’t sit here typing on an Internet forum all day (not typed on a TextBlade btw)... I have work to crack on with...
>All of this is quite uncool and certainly justifies the voices here complaining. Attacking the messengers and changing the frame of reference in order to validate attacking the messengers doesn’t change the validity of those complaints.
Your bone will come. Waiting will be the order of the day in the meantime, I’ve just returned from an international trip and have, y’know, actual work to do.
I’m not an unpaid beta-testing retiree who lives to win the Internet with each and every post.
Anyway, it is coming, your reply to this message is inevitable, so get on with it.
P.S. why don’t you try answering some of Smurf’s questions? It would be good practice...
> Ahhhh... So we’re clear... it is all about you...
Clarity isn't your best thing. It is about responding to people based on how they post.
From Alex > I’ve just returned from an international trip and have, y’know, actual work to do.
Fine. Except you've spent much time posting your creative messages, which doesn't make it look like you are really busy with actual work.
It's worth remembering that Alex owes you nothing. You've not paid him $99 and been left strung along for over four years. Equally, he's not your pupil who's late with some homework. He'll get to you when he gets to you. Or not.
> Ahhhh... So we’re clear... it is all about you...
Clarity isn't your best thing. It is about responding to people based on how they post.
From Alex > I’ve just returned from an international trip and have, y’know, actual work to do.
Fine. Except you've spent much time posting your creative messages, which doesn't make it look like you are really busy with actual work.
I don’t have to spend hours on each post to get each word right, I just fire off a post quickly and get back to what I’m doing. The other post is a multi page list of digs, half truths, untruths etc and etc. I’ll get to it. I don’t work at your schedule and whatever you claim about public forums, I don’t honestly have to justify anything to the redefiner of words, yes? I mean, no?
you can wait, DBK. I know you are itching for a fight and itching to defend the indefensible. Every post urging me to post is just you, lying in wait with a baseball bat and a text blade.
If you were a more honourable person you’d go through that page and tell us why it is accurate, but you won’t, because despite your bleats at MK to do the right thing, you’re not in a position of power.
I don’t have to spend hours on each post to get each word right, I just fire off a post quickly and get back to what I’m doing.
Every post urging me to post is just you, lying in wait with a baseball bat
If you were a more honourable person you’d go through that page and tell us why it is accurate, but you won’t, because despite your bleats at MK to do the right thing, you’re not in a position of power.
1. You know what takes even less time? A quick copy and paste of an example.
2. Since you say people not in Treg will understand your examples and since most here are not in Treg, then providiyactual examples should all be in your favor, regardless of what you think about my plans.
3. Lets see, you make the accusations, but to be honorable, I have to document that you are wrong? That sounds like innocence must be proven while those making the charge don’t have to do anything! I say that is very dishonorable.
I don’t have to spend hours on each post to get each word right, I just fire off a post quickly and get back to what I’m doing.
Every post urging me to post is just you, lying in wait with a baseball bat
If you were a more honourable person you’d go through that page and tell us why it is accurate, but you won’t, because despite your bleats at MK to do the right thing, you’re not in a position of power.
1. You know what takes even less time? A quick copy and paste of an example.
2. Since you say people not in Treg will understand your examples and since most here are not in Treg, then providiyactual examples should all be in your favor, regardless of what you think about my plans.
3. Lets see, you make the accusations, but to be honorable, I have to document that you are wrong? That sounds like innocence must be proven while those making the charge don’t have to do anything! I say that is very dishonorable.
All these demands! DBK - shame on you! You're a demanding, excusing, rationalising, shameless person, who gets offended at the drop of a hat, and can't wait for me to show you all the lies in WT's screed, just so you can slam them down in your typical style.
Shame shame shame. You should honestly be ashamed of yourself for being such a predictable person. We can see through you, DBK, and it's all a bit shallow.
Thanks for your interest in getting your own TextBlade! It's an exciting, big step forward in typing technology for the tablet era, and we hope you're delighted with how much it improves your experience.
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Mark has been hoping the same thing for his customers for 4+ years, we're losing hope that you're serious.
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If you'd like to pre-order, here's some useful info for you. It covers common questions customers may have.
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Life on Textblade started as an order. I ordered, I never pre-ordered.
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Promo
Before we start General Release shipments, all Pre-Order customers get a very sweet deal.
MultiMap free of charge. (Save $19 per TextBlade)
FutureProof Guarantee. (Save up to $99)
Surprise Gift. A special Thank You for early adopters.
Enjoy TextBlade months ahead of the crowd!
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Surprise gift? After 4 years? I hope it hasn't passed its expiry date. Enjoy Textblades ahead of the crowd? If you're a tregger you've enjoyed Textblades years ahead of the crowd. What a disgrace!
Future proof guarantee? Hahahaha.... What about a Past Proof guarantee that guarantees against 4+ years of wasted time.
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These exclusive benefits are to thank our early customers who help promote our mission. Order volume increases our power with partner suppliers, and benefits all of our customers. The more orders in our queue, the more speed and efficiency we achieve in bringing TextBlade to the masses. You can help accelerate release by joining in. Read more about our Early Adopter Guarantee here.
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"The more orders in our queue" boosts Mark's wallet. It does not speed up GR, 4+ years of order volume has proved that, and it hasn't done a damn thing to "help accelerate release".
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Production Status
We've produced a large quantity of TextBlades, and have released a small sampling of several hundred units for customer shipments and quality verification.Before we release mass quantities, we're verifying performance in the field with an initial group of our customers.We'll be busy with that over the next few months as we get high volume inventory ready for release to all customers. If you're interested in some of the technical details of our work, you can read about them in a recent Blog post here: Using TextBlade.
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We've produced a large quantity of TextBlades that have needed fixing. We've released a couple hundreds of them and the rest are being held hostage at WT HQ.
We'll be busy "over the next few months as we get high volume inventory ready for release to all customers". This has been a lie for 4+ years, as with the High Volume inventory. If you have high volume inventory planned, surely you can ship out thousands of GR ready units at once, not hold people back by the month or year they've ordered.
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Product Background
We invested millions of dollars over several years to develop TextBlade, and then announced in 2015 to extraordinary interest.Pre-orders began coming in from over 70 countries.In Spring of 2016 we began shipping TextBlades in limited quantities to customers.Test Release Group (TREG) users started posting their reviews.They've been overwhelmingly enthusiastic, and pre-orders increased in response. During the past 12 months, we've expanded both the number and diversity of TREG users, and made many refinements to the hardware and software that define why TextBlade is a much better way to type.
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We began shipping TextBlades in limited quantity to beta testers only.
During the past 12 months, we've expanded the numbers and diversity of TREG users... yeah sure, pull the other one.
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These advances have been driven by the extensive daily usage and amazingly valuable input from our users.Their feedback has been excellent.Many have switched to TextBlade as their primary keyboard because of its significant advantages over legacy boards.
Over the next few months, we're expanding TREG shipments and customer validation, while we prepare everything needed for General Release to all our customers.
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Is that the same General Release you've failed at over the last four plus years? Expanding Treg shipments - haven't I heard that promise before? TREG shipments seem to be expanded at the rate of a handful per year. Ha.
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Philosophy
Building new technology is thrilling and rewarding, but it's often a surprising journey.We didn't plan to hold back General Release for an extensive validation phase.Nor did we expect that we'd replace parts we worked so hard to build and stock.But we listened to what our users needed, and we chose to do those things. We made those choices, and we paid what it cost to make them, because of our core values and beliefs.
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We didn't plan to hold back General Release - we're just bad at forecasting, like 4+ years bad.
We made those choices... no, they were forced on you thanks to your bad engineering, bad manufacturing etc.
We paid what it cost to make them... we have millions invested... spending all this money that isn't ours because we haven't shipped yet is thrilling and rewarding... etc etc blah blah.
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In an era where intensive social media campaigns move mediocre merchandise, does the product itself still even matter?Yes. More than ever.When a product actually is much better, people love it. They tell others, and you have a great, sustainable growth business, that makes life better.
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Life will be better when a customer can order a TextBlade and have it delivered. Core values and beliefs? Wow... just wow. Sustainable growth business? All you've sustainably grown is credulity and the breadth, depth and quality of your excuses. "Mediocre Merchandise"... hahaha
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When we announced, we were excited with what TextBlade could already do, and eager to just push forward and ship customers as quickly as possible.Manufacturing challenges can sometimes alter your plans. They often delay even the largest companies like Apple (Watch, AirPods, white iPhone, etc). But those delays with new tech were not the surprising thing.There was something else.
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There was something else. Yeah, there sure was. Endless delays. Comparing yourself to Apple? Real artists ship, bro. Cool story Mark, bro.
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When customers got their blades and started typing, something magical happened.They realized TextBlade wasn't just a portable keyboard.It was a better keyboard.Maybe even, the best keyboard.Truth be told, this was our aspiration from the very beginning.But you never really know if you've succeeded, until paying customers volunteer that opinion.And they did.
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Maybe the best keyboard? I haven't tried one yet, have you? Magical? So are unicorns. You never really know if you've succeeded UNTIL YOU HAVE CUSTOMERS, not JUST beta testers. Something magical happened? Yes, that people were willing to put up with 4+ years of delay without getting too pissed off. Except they were getting pissed off - pissed off at shadow bans, pissed off at delays, pissed off at forced refunds, pissed off at being accused of being part of an opposition PR campaign, when we were merely pissed off at the lies, non shipments and increasingly ridiculous excuses.
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Once we saw how strong and deep this feeling ran, we knew we had a new responsibility.We knew that people would start depending on TextBlade as their daily typer.They'd want it to connect to all their devices as a kind of hub for typing.They'd want it to be so reliable they could count on it every day.They'd want it to be smart enough to conform to them, instead of the other way around.
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A new responsibility? Like shipping? I would love to depend on a TextBlade and I'd love for it to be reliable, but yeah... about that. Maybe if you'd shipped me one I could believe you, but you're about as believable as DBK's sincerity before he rips this all to shreds. Mr Sincerity, ol' DBK, and his mate, MT.
With great power comes great responsibility - to ship.
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That took more work.A lot more.But we also knew that when they got it, they'd get it.When it was in their hands, the pieces would all come together, make sense, and there'd be that magic moment.They'd know that our mission was, in fact, possible. You really could type with less effort, less stress, and less junk.You really could take it anywhere, on any screen, and even get your desk space back.
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I'd like a TextBlade before I can tell you anything about less effort, less stress and less junk, and more desk space. The only junk so far is this crap I'm reading from WT.
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While we did this work, some thought we were crazy. They thought it was some kind of hoax - an imaginary product that was merely CGI. They thought we'd never ship to anyone.Then, we actually started shipping.And customers began to write about it, and write on it.And write they did.Amazing affirmations that this thing they had so hoped would come true, did.And it was, maybe, even better than they had thought.
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They thought it was some kind of hoax, an imaginary product. Well, where is my TextBlade, MK? It's a hoax until customer shipments start en masse, and without any of this mind numbing BS that you have 4+ years worth of orders to ship first before you can ship mine. Your graph showing the months that are "sold out" is just the most complete BS. Some thought we were crazy? Many still do, Mark. Done your May update yet?
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After many positive user reviews, doubts diminished.Some folks continued to worry that we'd never ship to them.As we kept expanding TREG, and more TextBlade packages arrived, suddenly doubts flipped to joy and delight.Something else came with those packages too: a new appreciation for why it took so much effort.They realized how intimately we all connect with our keyboards, and even more so with this new technology.And how all those subtle details really do matter.
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Yeah yeah yeah, blah blah blah. A couple of hundred TREG users mate, that's it, despite you claiming thousands of orders. Doubts have not diminished, doubts have grown that you'll ever finish. The most subtle detail of all is when you'll ship, not this cult indoctrination crap you engage in.
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Confidence has further increased after months of daily use, and consistent affirmation from so many end users.There are still some folks who worry about moving forward with General Release.That perhaps we'll just gild the lily, and hold it back.But those who already have a TextBlade, know firsthand how this is different.They know it's a meaningful step forward, and must be done with great care so that everyone enjoys what it can do.And on the day that package arrives, the journey is very much worth it.
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After 4+ years, confidence has dropped to all time lows. The day the package arrives had better be before the day you file for bankruptcy.
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We hope this gives you a glimpse of what it has taken to make TextBlade.You know our history, and the choices we've made.If our values make sense to you, we'd love to have you join in our mission.The folks who've already gotten their TextBlades are pretty happy they did.
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The folks who've already gotten their TextBlades is a giant slap in the face to all that haven't received their TextBlades. The folks who've already gotten their TextBlades are pretty happy, I'm sure, but even they were lied to - they ordered as well, a finished product, they were delivered units that broke etc - your original premise that you were ready to manufacture was a blatant lie that you knew about from the start. When a company starts off with a lie, it doesn't bode well, and so far we've had 4+ years of boding badly. Coding badly too, it seems, given you've run out of memory and have had to fix your firmware - again. And again. And again.
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Ship Window
As we get confirmation from TREG customers that remaining details are looking good, we'll begin our General Release.We ship in order of priority date, so we'll be fulfilling all customers who ordered before you, and then we'll ship your order. The earlier your order, the higher your shipping priority.
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The earlier your order, the quicker your money is in our pocket while me make another 4+ years worth of delays, and if you don't like it, have a forced refund. You've been waiting for confirmation that remaining details are looking good since 2016. It's not looking good, mate.
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Our rough estimate is that current pre-orders will ship in Fall.Once we've started General Release, we'll have a more precise time window for your personal ship date.
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Will this Fall shipment prediction fall by the wayside again? You bet. Precise window? Only if you're measuring one from Home Depot.
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Although we're limited to an estimate at the moment, we're now in a fundamentally strong place.The heaviest lifting was getting that initial wave of TREG customers shipped, and verifying good performance over many months of real world, daily use.That milestone was very hard work, but it has given us confidence that we're nearing finalization for release.It has also proved to us that customers find that TextBlade benefits are real, and compelling.We hope you really like it too.
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The heaviest lifting is done? So glad that firmware refactorings are easy then, I mean, 4+ years plus of firmware, bluetooth, keycap manufacturing... it's all so easy. The heavy lifting is DONE, says Mark. But we're still "limited to an estimate".
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Money-Back Guarantee
Your pre-order has a 100% money-back guarantee.You can get a refund at any time, online, 24 X 7.Just click 'Change' on your order status page, and it takes less than a minute.Your satisfaction guarantee also extends for 30 days after delivery, so you can try TextBlade for a month with zero risk.
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You can try TextBlade for a month? Wow. I haven't tried one for 3 seconds yet. So much slap in the face to current non-treg customers. So many words, so much BS, and a blog section that has had zero updates since 2017. SAD!
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Ok, bone chewer DBK. Do your worst. Tell me this has all been said before. The whole damn thing is a slap in the face to all customers, including you. Lies upon lies upon lies. Overly optimistic forecasts. Talk of "months" when things have been this way for years. Treggers like you brush it ALL under the space bar because YOU have YOUR unit. The rest of us have these flowery WORDS and ESTIMATES. Sad sad sad sad sad.
What demands? Just pointing out you hadn't given any examples for a claim you made over a week ago. But I assume your next post are your examples so let's look at those - remembering this is specifically about you showing WT was making "digs" at customers. Which seems to mean: "cutting remark, crack (slang), insult, taunt, sneer, jeer, quip, barb, wisecrack (informal), gibe".
I do appreciate the examples. Were a lot of them - at first I thought you just did a massive cut and paste, depending on quantity rather than quality. But I note that you took the time to comment on each, so that's good. Shows some effort.
However, while I can certainly see things that would bug you - some I may even agree with - I simply don't see any "digs" at customers. That was what I was questioning you about, after all. I read through all 21 examples. I'll comment about a few, but if you still think these are "digs" at customers, I suggest you pick your best one or two examples so we can focus on them. Meanwhile:
> We began shipping TextBlades in limited quantity to beta testers only.
> During the past 12 months, we've expanded the numbers and diversity of TREG users... yeah sure, pull the other one.
They said they shipped in limited quantity to Treg members. That a fact, not a "dig". And they have expanded as they said. No doubt not as much as you'd like, but it is a true statement. Certainly not a "dig".
> Your graph showing the months that are "sold out" is just the most complete BS.
I've addressed this before. I don't think it makes much sense to list some months as "sold" if they haven't been shipped. If, for example, they said "August, September, October" were "sold" and orders were being taken for November or later, that would be okay (though no guarantee that the target would be reached). But I just don't see how something can be "sold" for months in the past unless, being in the past, they had already shipped.
So I agree with you on this. But it isn't a "dig".
> The folks who've already gotten their TextBlades is a giant slap in the face to all that haven't received their TextBlades.
Well, I don't agree (it also isn't a "dig"). It isn't a slap in the face because you have to consider the alternative that WT would have taken if they didn't do Treg. No, the alternative wouldn't have been to ship. That's YOUR alternative. WT needed to have more people testing, people outside the company to get fresh experiences. So, that being the case, it was either Treg or have some professionals testing it - people who would never be posting about their experiences on the forum. I don't think that would be a better alternative to Treg!
So, I don't see any "digs" at customers. Perhaps you'd like to withdraw that claim and make a different one?
Ummmm... a point or order... if someone doesn’t post something, then you can’t actually “respond” at all... “accordingly” or otherwise...
(Semantics and pedantry can be quite silly and ultimately, meaningless... I hope I’ve illustrated the point of just how pointless it can be...)
1. But he was posting. Lots of times. So that covers that.
2. What words mean matters a lot. A "dig" is not just something you don't like. However, I can see how, if trying to defend an accusation that doesn't hold up, one might declare that the meanings of words don't matter. But it would be much better to withdraw the inaccurate claim and change it to something that is accurate.
Besides, if Alex has something that actually shows a "dig" at customers, I'll be happy to have it pointed out.
Ummmm... a point or order... if someone doesn’t post something, then you can’t actually “respond” at all... “accordingly” or otherwise...
(Semantics and pedantry can be quite silly and ultimately, meaningless... I hope I’ve illustrated the point of just how pointless it can be...)
1. But he was posting. Lots of times. So that covers that.
2. What words mean matters a lot. A "dig" is not just something you don't like. However, I can see how, if trying to defend an accusation that doesn't hold up, one might declare that the meanings of words don't matter. But it would be much better to withdraw the inaccurate claim and change it to something that is accurate.
Besides, if Alex has something that actually shows a "dig" at customers, I'll be happy to have it pointed out.
If “What words mean matters a lot” to the point of absolutism (which you seem to want it to when it suits you...), you had no definite knowledge of whether he would post or not after you so my statement stands - if someone doesn’t post, then you could not possibly respond; ipso facto, it does not “cover that” at all...
Once more, if you don’t wish to be skewered on your own sword-of-absolution, then “perhaps you’d like to withdraw your statement and make another one?”
(Of course, you could always say “yeah, yeah... fair enough... but it’s pretty clear what I meant...” and by saying that you’d be 100% correct; of course I knew what you meant... but that would put you in a psychological bind where you might need to “concede” something (even an insignificant something) to someone you consider an “opponent” who needs to be “fought” at every turn... it’s not a particularly difficult conundrum for most to get past, and costs absolutely nothing, but to a psyche which forces itself to live and die on the hill it has created for itself, it’s an impossibility...)
...your serve
P.S. Technically Waytools had a “dig” at me in this thread by questioning my level of care or empathy as a healthcare professional. Will it keep me up at nights...? Can’t recall that it has thus far... (but then again, here I am mentioning it so who knows, maybe it did register and it’s like some kind of delayed “five-point-palm exploding heart” technique that will reduce me to tears in my declining years... I suspect not). It’s not hurtful and caused no damage, but is it a “dig”? Sure it is... Waytools have suggested/implied/inferred that critical poster here might be part of some nefarious competitors’ cabal out to sabotage Waytools name... that’s quite clearly a “dig” under anyone’s reasonable definition...
You can rationalise why any of it may or may not have been justified (I think not, but hey, I’m just a simple customer...), but it 100% conclusively demonstrates that Waytools is capable of levelling “digs” at customers. To argue it isn’t for semantic purposes is nonsensical and meaningless and would be arguing (or “bickering”) purely for the sake of bickering...
Ummmm... a point or order... if someone doesn’t post something, then you can’t actually “respond” at all... “accordingly” or otherwise...
(Semantics and pedantry can be quite silly and ultimately, meaningless... I hope I’ve illustrated the point of just how pointless it can be...)
1. But he was posting. Lots of times. So that covers that.
2. What words mean matters a lot. A "dig" is not just something you don't like. However, I can see how, if trying to defend an accusation that doesn't hold up, one might declare that the meanings of words don't matter. But it would be much better to withdraw the inaccurate claim and change it to something that is accurate.
Besides, if Alex has something that actually shows a "dig" at customers, I'll be happy to have it pointed out.
Being lied to for 4+ years and being made to wait for updates that are days or weeks late and getting forced refunds and everything else WT has done in its anti-customer campaign is one giant dig at customers.
If “What words mean matters a lot” to the point of absolutism (which you seem to want it to when it suits you...)
Actually, I rarely, if ever, define a word with "absolutism". I will point out that words, regardless of how wide a range of meanings they may have, still have limits. Thus, if someone points to something and say it includes "digs" about customers, that wouldn't count posts about shipping that were wrong. That may be something to complain about, but it sure isn't a "dig".
In other cases, I'm pointing out that words do have more than one, "absolute" meaning. And I'll explain that. You are, I assume, aware that words have multiple meanings but that doesn't mean a given word can mean anything at all!
Like how you folks have often made an issue about dates, but you often get it wrong. It typically goes like this:
1. WT says "next week" they'll be an update. 2. A critic, on Wednesday of the next week, declares they haven't done it yet so they failed to meet the time limit they set. 3. I point out that the week isn't over yet (because it isn't). 4. I then go on to explain what the time limits are, which would be: ...A. Friday (end of the work week for most, at least in the U.S.) ...B. Saturday (end of the calendar week in the U.S.) ...C. Sunday (End of the "weekend" because most go back to work or school on Monday so they treat Sunday as the end of the week).
...D. And, finally, going into the early hours of Monday (like 3:00 AM) because I know that Mark, at least, works very late and so he may be finishing his "Sunday work" on the TB so the update doesn't come until past midnight.
Now, the critics like to say I just extend the definition practically to infinity, but I don't. All of those, except possibly D, are clearly justifiable definitions for when a week comes to an end and D is a reasonable extension based on a particular work schedule. But even with all 4 of those, it is very limited. And it sure is a lot more accurate than those declaring it is late by Wednesday! My point, in each case, was to make clear that there is no reason to claim someone is late until they really are late.
So, look at the bright side, WT may miss the May update and folks can complain. Could I "defend" doing so after Friday? In some cases, yes. By that I mean that if WT was usually on time with updates over the past 6 months, if this one didn't come until, say, Sunday, I could say that, "Yes, it was late, but is two days really a big deal?"
But not in this case, because they have not only not been on time with updates in that period of time, they haven't provided a big update at all, even though there are plenty of times they said one was coming soon, in a few days, next week, etc. So the standard is deservedly stricter.
Being lied to for 4+ years and being made to wait for updates that are days or weeks late and getting forced refunds and everything else WT has done in its anti-customer campaign is one giant dig at customers.
Rationalise your way out of that... if you can.
First, we are referring specifically to a WT document and, while it has stuff in it about expected shipping or updates coming, none of that is a "dig".
Being lied to for 4+ years and being made to wait for updates that are days or weeks late and getting forced refunds and everything else WT has done in its anti-customer campaign is one giant dig at customers.
Rationalise your way out of that... if you can.
First, we are referring specifically to a WT document and, while it has stuff in it about expected shipping or updates coming, none of that is a "dig".
A LOT of it is a dig to non-TREG customers, something you are blind to, and which you will never be able to see.
But let’s just say this: Ok, DBK. You win. We still don’t have a GR TextBlade, not even you, so we are all losers.
Your hero, MK, still has all the money, and we’re all still waiting for an update - and GR.
You win the Internet, though. Congratulations on your great contribution, including the redefinition of yes - an Orwellian victory of the boot stompiest order.
Thank you for your service. Are you, dear reader, thrilled at DBK’s win, and sick of waiting for GR?
Your hero, MK, still has all the money, and we’re all still waiting for an update - and GR.
You win the Internet, though.
Since you haven't provided anything from the source material you referenced that showed WT made "digs" against customers, then I guess I won on the specific matter. But I also said some complaints would be valid. I even included an example.
I respect what Mark has done to develop such a unique keyboard that stands traditional expectation of what a mobile keyboard can do. But I don't agree with a number of things they have done. I just posted again on their forum about how they need to do that update before June 1. I've posted a number of times just recently as well as over the past 6 months or more on the same issue. So, not a "hero".
I don't think anyone "wins" the internet. In fact, I think people mostly lose because it could be such a great place for discussions if people wouldn't make things up! But they do.
Comments
If we’re not to continue making you the centre of attention (as you said in post 1221 that it isn’t important to you):
dabigkahuna said:
Nope...
...then I’d ask your opinion of Waytools, the sneaky unicorn/TextBlade (I once saw a unicorn and no one can prove I didn’t! I was 4 years old...) as it pertains to the following/previous:
I said:
>What I am in this particular context is a customer of Waytools who is frustrated and feels poorly served by the company. The company does not appear keen to engage and is extremely poor at customer relations and is extremely (overly) sensitive to criticism. The company have been extremely vague in their use of timeframes - so much so that they insist (with you as a staunch defender) they have never actually missed a deadline since they never actually gave a deadline; merely an estimate... and yet a significant number of customers feel they were deceived. The company dangles a carrot (early adopter gift of “significant value”) out without stating what it is whilst at the same time urging dissatisfied people to use the refund button; that denies people the ability to make an informed decision by keeping them uninformed about a key piece of information. And on the point of refunds, the company states (on this forum) the decision to keep an order or seek a refund sits entirely with the customer and yet that same company has unilaterally enforced refunds to customers who have vented their displeasure. Last and by no means least, the company maintains a forum (complete with a “rants” section) and yet a number of customers who have “ranted” have been shadow banned from the forum, silencing their dissent - anyserious dissent. There are more, but I can’t sit here typing on an Internet forum all day (not typed on a TextBlade btw)... I have work to crack on with...
>All of this is quite uncool and certainly justifies the voices here complaining. Attacking the messengers and changing the frame of reference in order to validate attacking the messengers doesn’t change the validity of those complaints.
As for:
dabigkahuna said:
When someone brings in tangential points which are making someone the issue with false claims, I'll respond. Cause and effect. The solution is not for me to let you do it and me to ignore the false statements. The solution is for you or others not to make the false claims. Simple.
Why I’d point out that what you refer to cause and effect is actually a little more complicated than that... it’s more a case of cause and effect, and effect and effect and effect and effect and effect and effect and effect (...this goes on for a while... it’s a kind of chicken and egg/Russian nesting dolls kind of thing...
You feel you’re responding/reacting to a reaction to a reaction to a reaction [etc.] which is sort of how WW1 started... not really all that sensible, but that’s what happens with reaction for it’s own sake if pushed to the ultimate conclusion. Most children grow out of the “but he pushed me first... so it was ok for me to push Chester down the stairs and crack his skull...” in about the fourth grade, but others take considerably longer; humans aren’t cookie-cutter creatures... I would refer you back to my previous suggestion involving big-boy pants and deep water (best way to get me to stop posting with a juvenile tone/bent - another “cause and effect” - although I admit, some enjoy the patter...)
As for your last paragraph:
Why would changing the word one I rarely use to one I probably use even less be better? The essence is the same, but that's because both would be false...
I really need to ask; are you being deliberately ironic? Because if you are, it’s a masterpiece of hilarity... If you meant that to be funny, well played sir... well played indeed [golf clap]; that’s genuinely funny. If you didn’t mean it to be ironical or funny... well... ummm... perhaps you’ll get there one day, keep trying and keep your chin up (in the meantime, learn to human...)
There are people here who I disagree with on many things who I am respectful to - the ones who don't make stuff up. All very consistent.
(btw, if you think blather and bluster are the same thing as tickling with a feather duster, you’re, once again, sorely mistaken, and going to the wrong clubs... I must say, I do find it rather thigh-slappingly hilarious that the utterly valid points I say get you riled up which end up with you attacking the messenger as “making stuff up”, but boy-bands... zip, nadda, zilch... not a fan either I’m guessing...?)
P.S. I don’t make weird psychological attacks. I make professionally informed observations based on many years of training and professional [medical] practice. You may well be many things, but you are most certainly not a trained Psychologist or Psychiatrist (not even a General Practitioner of Internal Medicine) and are not professionally equipped nor qualified to render judgement the quality or validity of my work. If you find those observations threatening your sense of self, or if you find them insulting, I’d refer you back to my own Achilles Heel I’ve just needed to learn to deal with; boy-bands... In fact, if you’d gone after me over unicorns or Maroon 5 you most definitely be on far safer ground...
It’s unwise of you to veer in to the psychological realm champ... your lack of knowledge or training in other areas may be harmless - heck i’ve seen dreadful musicians conduct national symphony orchestras with the audience being none the wiser - but treading in to the turf of the psychological will quickly expose your shortcomings no matter how many times you dismiss what you fail to understand as gobbledygook... just because you don’t see it doesn’t mean your underpants aren’t peaking out from under your trouser waistband... There are plenty of areas (medical ones too...) where I’m certainly well out of my depth (don’t get me started on endocrinology, I just scraped through there by the skin of my teeth) but behavioural psychology is not one of them...
Now we’ve that public service announcement out of the way... how’d you go with my paragraphs detailing poor conduct from the vendor? Are you dodging it because you quietly agree? It’s just unusual for you to be silent on a subject unless you’re actively trying to drag the narrative anywhere but to that subject...
if you’ve missed the last three re-postings, I’ll give it to you again;
>What I am in this particular context is a customer of Waytools who is frustrated and feels poorly served by the company. The company does not appear keen to engage and is extremely poor at customer relations and is extremely (overly) sensitive to criticism. The company have been extremely vague in their use of timeframes - so much so that they insist (with you as a staunch defender) they have never actually missed a deadline since they never actually gave a deadline; merely an estimate... and yet a significant number of customers feel they were deceived. The company dangles a carrot (early adopter gift of “significant value”) out without stating what it is whilst at the same time urging dissatisfied people to use the refund button; that denies people the ability to make an informed decision by keeping them uninformed about a key piece of information. And on the point of refunds, the company states (on this forum) the decision to keep an order or seek a refund sits entirely with the customer and yet that same company has unilaterally enforced refunds to customers who have vented their displeasure. Last and by no means least, the company maintains a forum (complete with a “rants” section) and yet a number of customers who have “ranted” have been shadow banned from the forum, silencing their dissent - anyserious dissent. There are more, but I can’t sit here typing on an Internet forum all day (not typed on a TextBlade btw)... I have work to crack on with...
>All of this is quite uncool and certainly justifies the voices here complaining. Attacking the messengers and changing the frame of reference in order to validate attacking the messengers doesn’t change the validity of those complaints.
Smurf
Cool story, bro.
Your bone will come. Waiting will be the order of the day in the meantime, I’ve just returned from an international trip and have, y’know, actual work to do.
I’m not an unpaid beta-testing retiree who lives to win the Internet with each and every post.
Anyway, it is coming, your reply to this message is inevitable, so get on with it.
P.S. why don’t you try answering some of Smurf’s questions? It would be good practice...
Clarity isn't your best thing. It is about responding to people based on how they post.
From Alex > I’ve just returned from an international trip and have, y’know, actual work to do.
Fine. Except you've spent much time posting your creative messages, which doesn't make it look like you are really busy with actual work.
you can wait, DBK. I know you are itching for a fight and itching to defend the indefensible. Every post urging me to post is just you, lying in wait with a baseball bat and a text blade.
If you were a more honourable person you’d go through that page and tell us why it is accurate, but you won’t, because despite your bleats at MK to do the right thing, you’re not in a position of power.
2. Since you say people not in Treg will understand your examples and since most here are not in Treg, then providiyactual examples should all be in your favor, regardless of what you think about my plans.
3. Lets see, you make the accusations, but to be honorable, I have to document that you are wrong? That sounds like innocence must be proven while those making the charge don’t have to do anything! I say that is very dishonorable.
Shame shame shame. You should honestly be ashamed of yourself for being such a predictable person. We can see through you, DBK, and it's all a bit shallow.
Future proof guarantee? Hahahaha.... What about a Past Proof guarantee that guarantees against 4+ years of wasted time.
We paid what it cost to make them... we have millions invested... spending all this money that isn't ours because we haven't shipped yet is thrilling and rewarding... etc etc blah blah.
+++
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Ok, bone chewer DBK. Do your worst. Tell me this has all been said before. The whole damn thing is a slap in the face to all customers, including you. Lies upon lies upon lies. Overly optimistic forecasts. Talk of "months" when things have been this way for years. Treggers like you brush it ALL under the space bar because YOU have YOUR unit. The rest of us have these flowery WORDS and ESTIMATES.
Sad sad sad sad sad.
I do appreciate the examples. Were a lot of them - at first I thought you just did a massive cut and paste, depending on quantity rather than quality. But I note that you took the time to comment on each, so that's good. Shows some effort.
However, while I can certainly see things that would bug you - some I may even agree with - I simply don't see any "digs" at customers. That was what I was questioning you about, after all. I read through all 21 examples. I'll comment about a few, but if you still think these are "digs" at customers, I suggest you pick your best one or two examples so we can focus on them. Meanwhile:
> We began shipping TextBlades in limited quantity to beta testers only.
They said they shipped in limited quantity to Treg members. That a fact, not a "dig". And they have expanded as they said. No doubt not as much as you'd like, but it is a true statement. Certainly not a "dig".
> Your graph showing the months that are "sold out" is just the most complete BS.
I've addressed this before. I don't think it makes much sense to list some months as "sold" if they haven't been shipped. If, for example, they said "August, September, October" were "sold" and orders were being taken for November or later, that would be okay (though no guarantee that the target would be reached). But I just don't see how something can be "sold" for months in the past unless, being in the past, they had already shipped.
So I agree with you on this. But it isn't a "dig".
> The folks who've already gotten their TextBlades is a giant slap in the face to all that haven't received their TextBlades.
Well, I don't agree (it also isn't a "dig"). It isn't a slap in the face because you have to consider the alternative that WT would have taken if they didn't do Treg. No, the alternative wouldn't have been to ship. That's YOUR alternative. WT needed to have more people testing, people outside the company to get fresh experiences. So, that being the case, it was either Treg or have some professionals testing it - people who would never be posting about their experiences on the forum. I don't think that would be a better alternative to Treg!
So, I don't see any "digs" at customers. Perhaps you'd like to withdraw that claim and make a different one?
Perhaps you’d like to withdraw your statement and make a different one?
(Semantics and pedantry can be quite silly and ultimately, meaningless... I hope I’ve illustrated the point of just how pointless it can be...)
2. What words mean matters a lot. A "dig" is not just something you don't like. However, I can see how, if trying to defend an accusation that doesn't hold up, one might declare that the meanings of words don't matter. But it would be much better to withdraw the inaccurate claim and change it to something that is accurate.
Besides, if Alex has something that actually shows a "dig" at customers, I'll be happy to have it pointed out.
Once more, if you don’t wish to be skewered on your own sword-of-absolution, then “perhaps you’d like to withdraw your statement and make another one?”
(Of course, you could always say “yeah, yeah... fair enough... but it’s pretty clear what I meant...” and by saying that you’d be 100% correct; of course I knew what you meant... but that would put you in a psychological bind where you might need to “concede” something (even an insignificant something) to someone you consider an “opponent” who needs to be “fought” at every turn... it’s not a particularly difficult conundrum for most to get past, and costs absolutely nothing, but to a psyche which forces itself to live and die on the hill it has created for itself, it’s an impossibility...)
...your serve
P.S. Technically Waytools had a “dig” at me in this thread by questioning my level of care or empathy as a healthcare professional. Will it keep me up at nights...? Can’t recall that it has thus far... (but then again, here I am mentioning it so who knows, maybe it did register and it’s like some kind of delayed “five-point-palm exploding heart” technique that will reduce me to tears in my declining years... I suspect not). It’s not hurtful and caused no damage, but is it a “dig”? Sure it is... Waytools have suggested/implied/inferred that critical poster here might be part of some nefarious competitors’ cabal out to sabotage Waytools name... that’s quite clearly a “dig” under anyone’s reasonable definition...
You can rationalise why any of it may or may not have been justified (I think not, but hey, I’m just a simple customer...), but it 100% conclusively demonstrates that Waytools is capable of levelling “digs” at customers. To argue it isn’t for semantic purposes is nonsensical and meaningless and would be arguing (or “bickering”) purely for the sake of bickering...
Edited final paragraph for typo
Rationalise your way out of that... if you can.
In other cases, I'm pointing out that words do have more than one, "absolute" meaning. And I'll explain that. You are, I assume, aware that words have multiple meanings but that doesn't mean a given word can mean anything at all!
Like how you folks have often made an issue about dates, but you often get it wrong. It typically goes like this:
1. WT says "next week" they'll be an update.
2. A critic, on Wednesday of the next week, declares they haven't done it yet so they failed to meet the time limit they set.
3. I point out that the week isn't over yet (because it isn't).
4. I then go on to explain what the time limits are, which would be:
...A. Friday (end of the work week for most, at least in the U.S.)
...B. Saturday (end of the calendar week in the U.S.)
...C. Sunday (End of the "weekend" because most go back to work or school on Monday so they treat Sunday as the end of the week).
Now, the critics like to say I just extend the definition practically to infinity, but I don't. All of those, except possibly D, are clearly justifiable definitions for when a week comes to an end and D is a reasonable extension based on a particular work schedule. But even with all 4 of those, it is very limited. And it sure is a lot more accurate than those declaring it is late by Wednesday! My point, in each case, was to make clear that there is no reason to claim someone is late until they really are late.
So, look at the bright side, WT may miss the May update and folks can complain. Could I "defend" doing so after Friday? In some cases, yes. By that I mean that if WT was usually on time with updates over the past 6 months, if this one didn't come until, say, Sunday, I could say that, "Yes, it was late, but is two days really a big deal?"
But not in this case, because they have not only not been on time with updates in that period of time, they haven't provided a big update at all, even though there are plenty of times they said one was coming soon, in a few days, next week, etc. So the standard is deservedly stricter.
But let’s just say this: Ok, DBK. You win. We still don’t have a GR TextBlade, not even you, so we are all losers.
Your hero, MK, still has all the money, and we’re all still waiting for an update - and GR.
You win the Internet, though. Congratulations on your great contribution, including the redefinition of yes - an Orwellian victory of the boot stompiest order.
Thank you for your service. Are you, dear reader, thrilled at DBK’s win, and sick of waiting for GR?
#metoo
#timesup
I respect what Mark has done to develop such a unique keyboard that stands traditional expectation of what a mobile keyboard can do. But I don't agree with a number of things they have done. I just posted again on their forum about how they need to do that update before June 1. I've posted a number of times just recently as well as over the past 6 months or more on the same issue. So, not a "hero".
I don't think anyone "wins" the internet. In fact, I think people mostly lose because it could be such a great place for discussions if people wouldn't make things up! But they do.