There are phrases one can argue back and forth about in there, but what is clear is that Waytools didn't get their original plan through and they are open with that and as far as I can tell are trying to do what they can to remedy the situation. However there is no way to talk themselves out of this and I'm sure they know that and try to make what they can to deliver.
However trying to smear someone else who just tries to keep things fact-based seems just like old fashioned 11-year olds schoolyard bully style.
I am as fascinated about both having someone who describes oneself as an award-winning writer making these posts as well as someone who implicitly describes oneself as working with psychology.
And there came the very distasteful metoo comment again.
I don't think anyone "wins" the internet. In fact, I think people mostly lose because it could be such a great place for discussions if people wouldn't make things up! But they do.
Aarggghhh... I really, really hate to do this, but I have to point out to you that’s not really what “win the internet” means...
You may want to look up what these new-fandangled “meme” things are... [shrug]
There are phrases one can argue back and forth about in there, but what is clear is that Waytools didn't get their original plan through and they are open with that and as far as I can tell are trying to do what they can to remedy the situation. However there is no way to talk themselves out of this and I'm sure they know that and try to make what they can to deliver.
However trying to smear someone else who just tries to keep things fact-based seems just like old fashioned 11-year olds schoolyard bully style.
I am as fascinated about both having someone who describes oneself as an award-winning writer making these posts as well as someone who implicitly describes oneself as working with psychology.
And there came the very distasteful metoo comment again.
I have to agree, the metoo line is not in good taste - that’s probably not a term to be flippant with...
i’ve sent you a pm if you’re genuinely fascinated by the psychology of this particular situation. It goes in to a little history and hopefully provides a little more context as to why things have played out on the forum the way they have... This isn’t the only forum Waytools has come up on which has devolved in to people in two distinct camps. In some of those, the moderators ended up shutting it down as having ended it’s usefulness and/or someone or other ended up getting banned from the forum for breaking forum rules. That may be the case here, but I hope not as I’d not like to see Waytools avoid having to face their customers rather than force-refunding them or shadow-banning them from their forum and leaving them voiceless...
I must admit, I find it frustrating that Waytools get off the hook due to one non-employee carrying water for them and helping deflect the attention away from them.
There are phrases one can argue back and forth about in there, but what is clear is that Waytools didn't get their original plan through and they are open with that and as far as I can tell are trying to do what they can to remedy the situation. However there is no way to talk themselves out of this and I'm sure they know that and try to make what they can to deliver.
However trying to smear someone else who just tries to keep things fact-based seems just like old fashioned 11-year olds schoolyard bully style.
I am as fascinated about both having someone who describes oneself as an award-winning writer making these posts as well as someone who implicitly describes oneself as working with psychology.
And there came the very distasteful metoo comment again.
Waytools is the distasteful company here, and because Waytools is abusing its customers - male, female, or otherwise, well, #metoo has a place in shaming Waytools for deceit, abuse etc.
Also, pretending that WT whose facts are all over the place, and DBK who is a word redefiner are factual is a laugh.
Putting down my hard won awards is disingenuous and, I’ll do a DBK here, “offensive”, although I can understand that some people would consider #metoo usage offensive, too.
That said, I never made any promises to ship within a month or two, gained thousands of orders because of it, and am still exhibiting ongoing beta status problems, bugs and firmware rewrites 4+ years later.
Thanks Mark, and thank you to those that defend this kind of behaviour, because free speech also exposes those who speak the wrong thing and provides a fantastic warning to the rest of us.
PS DBK will predictably pipe up now and never claim he used the word “offensive” and that he’s offended by my suggesting so and that to be offended actually isn’t to be really offended because of reasons and memes and stuff. We know the drill DBK but we await another dose of moon logic, we know you won’t resist the opportunity to do a DBK.
PPS - are you a Tregger, DeckAddict? If you say yes, will that really mean maybe?
Alex, if you felt that I tried to put down your award winning work, I can only say I'm sorry. I know you can write, but the last posts you have made has been far from graceful in my opinion. Note that is only an opinion and not a fact.
And as far as me being a TREG:er. Yes I am. You can interpret it anyway you want.
Alex, if you felt that I tried to put down your award winning work, I can only say I'm sorry. I know you can write, but the last posts you have made has been far from graceful in my opinion. Note that is only an opinion and not a fact.
And as far as me being a TREG:er. Yes I am. You can interpret it anyway you want.
No offence, but you do come across as a Tregger - more willing to forgive Mark, quicker to defend etc. Non-Treggers see it easily, you do have to censor yourself somewhat when you're a Tregger - even DBK, who says he complains to Mark, but even his complaints are couched in... gentler terms. Mark knows he can do what he wants.
The sad thing is that the Treg period was meant to be over in weeks. 3+ years of Treg later and it sadly has become a Tregular fact of life.
Oh well. Non-Treggers have no TextBlade but we, at least, can speak freely, without fear of Tregtribution - something Americans (of which I am not) still have a right to do.
Well, I am glad that you and DBK are able to type on a TextBlade, and I hope that this state of affairs is soon expanded to the rest of the world, but a GR TextBlade seems unlikely in this decade.
We could get a man on the moon before the decade was out. A shame it won't be the same for the TextBlade.
I must admit, I find it frustrating that Waytools get off the hook due to one non-employee carrying water for them and helping deflect the attention away from them.
Maybe you could notice that critics who don’t make me the issue either don’t get me posting to them or, when I do, there is a lot of agreement.
That is fair Alex of course I am biased. I have seen the product and believe that Waytools do their best and are not trying to scam anyone. If you've only seen stories you might think it is all fiction and a scam.
Most people would probably think that AppleInsider would not take part in a conspiracy though.
Putting down my hard won awards is disingenuous and, I’ll do a DBK here, “offensive”
PS DBK will predictably pipe up now and never claim he used the word “offensive” and that he’s offended by my suggesting so and that to be offended actually isn’t to be really offended because of reasons and memes and stuff. We know the drill DBK
PPS - are you a Tregger, DeckAddict? If you say yes, will that really mean maybe?
1. Actually, I agree. Being proud of your accomplishments is fine and WT shouldn't have criticized you on that. After all, they clearly are proud of the work they've done so why make it an issue about someone else? But keep in mind this isn't only an issue for WT. I've been criticized for things I've said I've accomplished (my grade book programming being a recent example).
2. Doesn't matter if I used the word since you aren't saying I did in your prior statement, though I don't know why my name was involved at all.
3. I've noted that people like to keep bringing up my statements about "yes" - typically either the way you did (does yes mean maybe) or more extreme, does yes mean no. What no one does is include my example, which anyone can understand where in real life, just because you say "yes" about something doesn't mean it will happen and, if it doesn't happen, it doesn't mean lying was involved.
That is fair Alex of course I am biased. I have seen the product and believe that Waytools do their best and are not trying to scam anyone. If you've only seen stories you might think it is all fiction and a scam.
Most people would probably think that AppleInsider would not take part in a conspiracy though.
Look, I can tell it is real and that Treggers love it. Heck, I was sold from the video. I ordered on Jan 15, 2015, and held out for two years.
I hope TB launches to the general public, but MT’s customer “service”, his ascerbic nature, and the cult-like devotion from the chosen few is both a great sign the product is very real, and also disturbing.
I hope MK pulls it off and the product launches, but even you have to be worried that time and money is not infinite.
If MK wasn’t such an openly disrespectful a-hole, customers would have more hope, and ex-customers would consider re-ordering.
But when you’re the type of person MK demonstrably and openly is, you worry for his sanity, and wonder whether karma is going to kick him up the a/hole.
I sincerely hope he succeeds and launches TB, but it will almost be despite his true nature and not because of it.
I’m glad you are enjoying TextBlade. Hope I and everyone else can enjoy it one day, too.
> No offence, but you do come across as a Tregger - more willing to forgive Mark, quicker to defend etc.
Or we are just more aware of how hard it is to make a keyboard like this work properly.
> Non-Treggers see it easily, you do have to censor yourself somewhat when you're a Tregger - even DBK, who says he complains to Mark, but even his complaints are couched in... gentler terms. Mark knows he can do what he wants.
Maybe non-treggers have their own biases? And why should I be talking the way some of the critics do? I can make all the necessary criticisms without a bunch of assumptions, etc. And I'm pretty sure Mark will do what he wants regardless of how I say things. Or how you say things.
> The sad thing is that the Treg period was meant to be over in weeks.
I wouldn't say "meant to", but it was certainly their hope. They said IF we didn't find problems. Well, we found problems.
Your hero, MK, still has all the money, and we’re all still waiting for an update - and GR.
You win the Internet, though.
Since you haven't provided anything from the source material you referenced that showed WT made "digs" against customers, then I guess I won on the specific matter. But I also said some complaints would be valid. I even included an example.
I respect what Mark has done to develop such a unique keyboard that stands traditional expectation of what a mobile keyboard can do. But I don't agree with a number of things they have done. I just posted again on their forum about how they need to do that update before June 1. I've posted a number of times just recently as well as over the past 6 months or more on the same issue. So, not a "hero".
I don't think anyone "wins" the internet. In fact, I think people mostly lose because it could be such a great place for discussions if people wouldn't make things up! But they do.
The source material provides plenty of references of "digs" against customers. It's a shame you can't see it, but you can't.
> No offence, but you do come across as a Tregger - more willing to forgive Mark, quicker to defend etc.
Or we are just more aware of how hard it is to make a keyboard like this work properly.
> Non-Treggers see it easily, you do have to censor yourself somewhat when you're a Tregger - even DBK, who says he complains to Mark, but even his complaints are couched in... gentler terms. Mark knows he can do what he wants.
Maybe non-treggers have their own biases? And why should I be talking the way some of the critics do? I can make all the necessary criticisms without a bunch of assumptions, etc. And I'm pretty sure Mark will do what he wants regardless of how I say things. Or how you say things.
> The sad thing is that the Treg period was meant to be over in weeks.
I wouldn't say "meant to", but it was certainly their hope. They said IF we didn't find problems. Well, we found problems.
Non Treggers have the bias of being non-treggers. That's it. Mark should listen to his customers. Past and present. He's NOT Steve Jobs.
Anyway good luck to you DBK. I hope Treg ends permanently one day. I hope Textblade doesn't end permanently.
BTW Yes means yes and no means no. When asked a direct question about WT release this year, we got a firm YES. You proceeded to rationalise it to maybe... Did anyone ask you to? No!
I must admit, I find it frustrating that Waytools get off the hook due to one non-employee carrying water for them and helping deflect the attention away from them.
Maybe you could notice that critics who don’t make me the issue either don’t get me posting to them or, when I do, there is a lot of agreement.
And by that same token, maybe you could notice that every time you make unctuous posts, people react negatively, but you continue to make unctuous posts... “Feedback” and “adjusting” seem to be qualities for other people but not ones you’re particularly bothered by or interested in.
You were never “the issue”, merely a symptom. Hate to burst your bubble but whilst you may well be the most voluminous and frequent poster in the history of any and all threads and forums to do with TextBlades and Waytoolses, the sad (and somewhat pathetic) reality of your status is that had Waytools launched as they’d “meant” (intended) to - in early 2015, there would be precious few who even knew who you were. “dabigkahuna” would be entirely synonymous with Pulp Fiction and have nothing whatsoever to do in the minds of customers with the TextBlade. The core “issue” for which you are but the symptom is Waytools failure to deliver a product (for whatever reason; legitimate or not...)
Unfortunately if the core cause is not ever dealt with, symptoms have a nasty habit of spreading and flourishing and then you’ve got a full blown epidemic on your hands and it’s infecting lots of new people...
That you genuinely might believe people consider you in any way “the issue” grants you a grandeur far, far in excess of the reality and it is a status given to you by yourself for the glory of - yourself. In reality, more people than not find you an irritant and a pest - terribly annoying and distracting but by no means “the issue”. From my interactions and conversations with people (many either venting their frustrations or privately encouraging me not to enable your domineering behaviour), they find you a self important blowhard in dire need of a bubble-bursting. The most irritating thing for them is that you end up distracting, diverting and pivoting away from the actual issue; TextBlades (or lack thereof...) and Waytools. You fail to “read the room” and insert yourself unasked and end up distracting from, and shielding Waytools. I think it’s perfectly understandable that people get annoyed at you - I also think it’s perfectly understandable when people get annoyed by a persistent mosquito. It doesn’t mean that was the core topic of their dinner table conversation
The only actual issue where you are the true “main event” is an issue of pure self obsession. You may need to consider, the only one insisting on making you the topic, is you...
(Everything is naturally entirely subjective of course... I’m sure there are those out there who haven’t had the “full dbk experience” yet who read my posts with some puzzlement thinking “what an odd person... terribly undergraduate and juvenile at times and then there’s this whole second other writing style... most peculiar...”... and with that in mind, who am I to judge... )
And by that same token, maybe you could notice that every time you make unctuous posts, people react negatively
Doesn't matter if some people react negatively. What matters is that I post truthfully. But looking at even just the start of your post, quoted above, and we see you still don't get it right. I've posted a lot of stuff critical of WT. Not much that would count as "excessively flattering", if any. You do realize, I hope, that defending someone from made up assumptions is not the same as flattering them, excessively or not.
For example, someone (name escapes me at the moment) made a very long post of WT correspondence with them. And then, a bit later, almost exactly the same post seemed to be made again. WT made it a small issue. But, you see, I pay attention to what people say and I knew they had said they tried to post it before and for some reason it didn't show up. Result: They wrote it again and posted (that did show up) and then days later the original showed up. They were NOT trying to make two identical long posts. It was the system here that screwed things up. Oh, and after pointing that out, WT acknowledged it.
So, was my defense of that poster being "unctuous" about them? Nope. We certainly disagree on a number of things - just as I disagree on a number of things about what WT does. You just ignore it so you can make more assumptions.
Comments
However trying to smear someone else who just tries to keep things fact-based seems just like old fashioned 11-year olds schoolyard bully style.
I am as fascinated about both having someone who describes oneself as an award-winning writer making these posts as well as someone who implicitly describes oneself as working with psychology.
And there came the very distasteful metoo comment again.
You may want to look up what these new-fandangled “meme” things are... [shrug]
(That’s virtually the “you keep using that word” argument but you’ve somehow managed to switch to my side of it...! Fuuuuuuuuu-ny!)
i’ve sent you a pm if you’re genuinely fascinated by the psychology of this particular situation. It goes in to a little history and hopefully provides a little more context as to why things have played out on the forum the way they have... This isn’t the only forum Waytools has come up on which has devolved in to people in two distinct camps. In some of those, the moderators ended up shutting it down as having ended it’s usefulness and/or someone or other ended up getting banned from the forum for breaking forum rules. That may be the case here, but I hope not as I’d not like to see Waytools avoid having to face their customers rather than force-refunding them or shadow-banning them from their forum and leaving them voiceless...
I must admit, I find it frustrating that Waytools get off the hook due to one non-employee carrying water for them and helping deflect the attention away from them.
Smurf
Also, pretending that WT whose facts are all over the place, and DBK who is a word redefiner are factual is a laugh.
Putting down my hard won awards is disingenuous and, I’ll do a DBK here, “offensive”, although I can understand that some people would consider #metoo usage offensive, too.
That said, I never made any promises to ship within a month or two, gained thousands of orders because of it, and am still exhibiting ongoing beta status problems, bugs and firmware rewrites 4+ years later.
Thanks Mark, and thank you to those that defend this kind of behaviour, because free speech also exposes those who speak the wrong thing and provides a fantastic warning to the rest of us.
PS DBK will predictably pipe up now and never claim he used the word “offensive” and that he’s offended by my suggesting so and that to be offended actually isn’t to be really offended because of reasons and memes and stuff. We know the drill DBK but we await another dose of moon logic, we know you won’t resist the opportunity to do a DBK.
PPS - are you a Tregger, DeckAddict? If you say yes, will that really mean maybe?
Alex, if you felt that I tried to put down your award winning work, I can only say I'm sorry. I know you can write, but the last posts you have made has been far from graceful in my opinion. Note that is only an opinion and not a fact.
And as far as me being a TREG:er. Yes I am. You can interpret it anyway you want.
The sad thing is that the Treg period was meant to be over in weeks. 3+ years of Treg later and it sadly has become a Tregular fact of life.
Oh well. Non-Treggers have no TextBlade but we, at least, can speak freely, without fear of Tregtribution - something Americans (of which I am not) still have a right to do.
Well, I am glad that you and DBK are able to type on a TextBlade, and I hope that this state of affairs is soon expanded to the rest of the world, but a GR TextBlade seems unlikely in this decade.
We could get a man on the moon before the decade was out. A shame it won't be the same for the TextBlade.
Most people would probably think that AppleInsider would not take part in a conspiracy though.
3. I've noted that people like to keep bringing up my statements about "yes" - typically either the way you did (does yes mean maybe) or more extreme, does yes mean no. What no one does is include my example, which anyone can understand where in real life, just because you say "yes" about something doesn't mean it will happen and, if it doesn't happen, it doesn't mean lying was involved.
I hope TB launches to the general public, but MT’s customer “service”, his ascerbic nature, and the cult-like devotion from the chosen few is both a great sign the product is very real, and also disturbing.
I hope MK pulls it off and the product launches, but even you have to be worried that time and money is not infinite.
If MK wasn’t such an openly disrespectful a-hole, customers would have more hope, and ex-customers would consider re-ordering.
But when you’re the type of person MK demonstrably and openly is, you worry for his sanity, and wonder whether karma is going to kick him up the a/hole.
I sincerely hope he succeeds and launches TB, but it will almost be despite his true nature and not because of it.
I’m glad you are enjoying TextBlade. Hope I and everyone else can enjoy it one day, too.
Or we are just more aware of how hard it is to make a keyboard like this work properly.
> Non-Treggers see it easily, you do have to censor yourself somewhat when you're a Tregger - even DBK, who says he complains to Mark, but even his complaints are couched in... gentler terms. Mark knows he can do what he wants.
Maybe non-treggers have their own biases? And why should I be talking the way some of the critics do? I can make all the necessary criticisms without a bunch of assumptions, etc. And I'm pretty sure Mark will do what he wants regardless of how I say things. Or how you say things.
> The sad thing is that the Treg period was meant to be over in weeks.
I wouldn't say "meant to", but it was certainly their hope. They said IF we didn't find problems. Well, we found problems.
Non Treggers have the bias of being non-treggers. That's it. Mark should listen to his customers. Past and present. He's NOT Steve Jobs.
Anyway good luck to you DBK. I hope Treg ends permanently one day. I hope Textblade doesn't end permanently.
BTW Yes means yes and no means no. When asked a direct question about WT release this year, we got a firm YES. You proceeded to rationalise it to maybe... Did anyone ask you to? No!
You were never “the issue”, merely a symptom. Hate to burst your bubble but whilst you may well be the most voluminous and frequent poster in the history of any and all threads and forums to do with TextBlades and Waytoolses, the sad (and somewhat pathetic) reality of your status is that had Waytools launched as they’d “meant” (intended) to - in early 2015, there would be precious few who even knew who you were. “dabigkahuna” would be entirely synonymous with Pulp Fiction and have nothing whatsoever to do in the minds of customers with the TextBlade. The core “issue” for which you are but the symptom is Waytools failure to deliver a product (for whatever reason; legitimate or not...)
Unfortunately if the core cause is not ever dealt with, symptoms have a nasty habit of spreading and flourishing and then you’ve got a full blown epidemic on your hands and it’s infecting lots of new people...
That you genuinely might believe people consider you in any way “the issue” grants you a grandeur far, far in excess of the reality and it is a status given to you by yourself for the glory of - yourself. In reality, more people than not find you an irritant and a pest - terribly annoying and distracting but by no means “the issue”. From my interactions and conversations with people (many either venting their frustrations or privately encouraging me not to enable your domineering behaviour), they find you a self important blowhard in dire need of a bubble-bursting. The most irritating thing for them is that you end up distracting, diverting and pivoting away from the actual issue; TextBlades (or lack thereof...) and Waytools. You fail to “read the room” and insert yourself unasked and end up distracting from, and shielding Waytools. I think it’s perfectly understandable that people get annoyed at you - I also think it’s perfectly understandable when people get annoyed by a persistent mosquito. It doesn’t mean that was the core topic of their dinner table conversation
The only actual issue where you are the true “main event” is an issue of pure self obsession. You may need to consider, the only one insisting on making you the topic, is you...
(Everything is naturally entirely subjective of course... I’m sure there are those out there who haven’t had the “full dbk experience” yet who read my posts with some puzzlement thinking “what an odd person... terribly undergraduate and juvenile at times and then there’s this whole second other writing style... most peculiar...”... and with that in mind, who am I to judge...
For example, someone (name escapes me at the moment) made a very long post of WT correspondence with them. And then, a bit later, almost exactly the same post seemed to be made again. WT made it a small issue. But, you see, I pay attention to what people say and I knew they had said they tried to post it before and for some reason it didn't show up. Result: They wrote it again and posted (that did show up) and then days later the original showed up. They were NOT trying to make two identical long posts. It was the system here that screwed things up. Oh, and after pointing that out, WT acknowledged it.
Guys, what's up with the May Technical Update?
Evening of May 31st.
What is going on? Why is it so difficult and hard to write an update? Maybe too much ground to cover as we have not had one for too long?
A lot of the TB questions on this thread were diverted to this update.
If this would be the potential first missed update promise it would not be significant, but they have been hard to come by for more than a year or so.