New iPadOS lets you use a mouse to control your iPad and iPhone apps [u]

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 66

    MplsP said:
    Interesting - not sure if this is a good or bad thing. Part of the reason the iPhone and then the iPad did well was because iOS was designed as a touchscreen interface OS, unlike previous adaptations of Windows. That’s both a benefit and a detriment for an iPad. The interface is simple to use, but for fine manipulations it gets cumbersome. A finger works well but it is not a precision pointing device. The pencil gives increase precision, but costs an additional $100+. Now that a mouse or trackpad can be used will it fragment the software so you end up with some that ‘requires’ a mouse to use it effectively? 
    Anything on iOS that "requires" a mouse (assuming you don't mean literally, as that would likely go against App Store rules) would just be a poorly-designed app.
    You mean like Mail, Pages, Numbers, Word and Excel?   Those "poorly designed" apps?

    The truth is:   You can get by using a finger as a pointer, but for fine work, a mouse is far more efficient.
    I think @fastasleep means nothing in iOS requires a mouse.  He was countering @MplsP ; argument about fragmentation of software.  It's an invalid argument because there's no requirement for a mouse, iOS hasn't been optimized for mouse support, and it's an Assistive Touch feature.  It never has to be accessed.  It can be accessed and it might make some Apps easier to use and more efficient.  That's a tangential point unrelated to the argument of fragmentation of software.

    A lot of us are happy as clams that mouse support is in iOS.  Pretty sure none of us think it fragments the OS by being supported.
    fastasleepwatto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 66
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 9,871member

    I've been saying that this was inevitable for over a year now and getting beat up for it.
    It's not a "toaster / refrigerator" as many claimed.   It is "One Ring to Rule Them All!"

    With this and desktop level Safari, the iPad just became a man.

    I'm glad that it's finally here!   Although it sounds like Apple may need to fine tune it or finish it off.  I think this will be particularly attractive to students who won't have to buy and lug around two devices.

    (I suspect this will kill off the MacBook but the MacBook Air and MacBook Pros will continue on as strong as ever.   While there is overlap in the functionality, the two form factors and OS's will continue to have different (but complimentary) strengths and weaknesses)
    I think you're overestimating how many people will use this beyond its target audience (people with disabilities, primarily).  You're simulating a single finger in a multi-touch environment, for one. It may be useful in certain niche use cases, but as a general rule most people won't even know it's there.

    "I think this will be particularly attractive to students who won't have to buy and lug around two devices." — I seriously doubt that. 
    Niche use?
    No, it will be useful for most business users and others such as students who work with word processors and spreadsheets -- and make the iPad far more functionally adequate for those tasks -- rather than just squeaking by...

    I suspect you are thinking of traditional iPhone/iPad touch based apps like games.

    The truth is:  A finger works very well for many things.  But for fine work a finger is just too clumsy and you need a cursor -- at least to be efficient.  So, the iPad has both and the user will be able to decide based on what their needs of the moment are...

    As for students not being interested in a single device that meets all their needs:  You might be right for those students who can afford an extras grand or two in order to buy a Mac for heavy word processing.   But, most students I know could easily find better use for that money -- as well as space in their backpack.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 23 of 66
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 5,477member

    MplsP said:
    Interesting - not sure if this is a good or bad thing. Part of the reason the iPhone and then the iPad did well was because iOS was designed as a touchscreen interface OS, unlike previous adaptations of Windows. That’s both a benefit and a detriment for an iPad. The interface is simple to use, but for fine manipulations it gets cumbersome. A finger works well but it is not a precision pointing device. The pencil gives increase precision, but costs an additional $100+. Now that a mouse or trackpad can be used will it fragment the software so you end up with some that ‘requires’ a mouse to use it effectively? 
    Anything on iOS that "requires" a mouse (assuming you don't mean literally, as that would likely go against App Store rules) would just be a poorly-designed app.
    You mean like Mail, Pages, Numbers, Word and Excel?   Those "poorly designed" apps?

    The truth is:   You can get by using a finger as a pointer, but for fine work, a mouse is far more efficient.
    None of those things "require a mouse" in iOS by any stretch of the imagination. Maybe you have trouble using them, but I sure don't (at least the Apple apps, I don't use MS Office, so I can't speak to their design on iOS). Also, "fine work" in Mail? Okay...
  • Reply 24 of 66
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 5,477member

    I've been saying that this was inevitable for over a year now and getting beat up for it.
    It's not a "toaster / refrigerator" as many claimed.   It is "One Ring to Rule Them All!"

    With this and desktop level Safari, the iPad just became a man.

    I'm glad that it's finally here!   Although it sounds like Apple may need to fine tune it or finish it off.  I think this will be particularly attractive to students who won't have to buy and lug around two devices.

    (I suspect this will kill off the MacBook but the MacBook Air and MacBook Pros will continue on as strong as ever.   While there is overlap in the functionality, the two form factors and OS's will continue to have different (but complimentary) strengths and weaknesses)
    I think you're overestimating how many people will use this beyond its target audience (people with disabilities, primarily).  You're simulating a single finger in a multi-touch environment, for one. It may be useful in certain niche use cases, but as a general rule most people won't even know it's there.

    "I think this will be particularly attractive to students who won't have to buy and lug around two devices." — I seriously doubt that. 
    Niche use?
    No, it will be useful for most business users and others such as students who work with word processors and spreadsheets -- and make the iPad far more functionally adequate for those tasks -- rather than just squeaking by...

    I suspect you are thinking of traditional iPhone/iPad touch based apps like games.

    The truth is:  A finger works very well for many things.  But for fine work a finger is just too clumsy and you need a cursor -- at least to be efficient.  So, the iPad has both and the user will be able to decide based on what their needs of the moment are...

    As for students not being interested in a single device that meets all their needs:  You might be right for those students who can afford an extras grand or two in order to buy a Mac for heavy word processing.   But, most students I know could easily find better use for that money -- as well as space in their backpack.
    If you say so. You're going to be disappointed with your cursor for "fine work" then:


    EDIT: closer look at that video shows a "Cursor" setting, so curious to see what options are there.

    I meant that most students will never know this accessibility feature exists, much less enable it and start using mice with their iPads. SOME may, but it's not going to be common by any means.

    And, no, I'm not talking about games. Give me a break.
    edited June 2019
  • Reply 25 of 66
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 9,871member

    MplsP said:
    Interesting - not sure if this is a good or bad thing. Part of the reason the iPhone and then the iPad did well was because iOS was designed as a touchscreen interface OS, unlike previous adaptations of Windows. That’s both a benefit and a detriment for an iPad. The interface is simple to use, but for fine manipulations it gets cumbersome. A finger works well but it is not a precision pointing device. The pencil gives increase precision, but costs an additional $100+. Now that a mouse or trackpad can be used will it fragment the software so you end up with some that ‘requires’ a mouse to use it effectively? 
    Anything on iOS that "requires" a mouse (assuming you don't mean literally, as that would likely go against App Store rules) would just be a poorly-designed app.
    You mean like Mail, Pages, Numbers, Word and Excel?   Those "poorly designed" apps?

    The truth is:   You can get by using a finger as a pointer, but for fine work, a mouse is far more efficient.
    None of those things "require a mouse" in iOS by any stretch of the imagination. Maybe you have trouble using them, but I sure don't (at least the Apple apps, I don't use MS Office, so I can't speak to their design on iOS). Also, "fine work" in Mail? Okay...
    Asking if it's "required" is the wrong question.   It's whether or not it improves the user experience.  And, for some/many applications the answer is a clear "yes" -- particularly as it doesn't take away or compromise any other functionality from the iPad.   It's just an additional tool we didn't have before.
    muthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobra
  • Reply 26 of 66
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 5,477member

    MplsP said:
    Interesting - not sure if this is a good or bad thing. Part of the reason the iPhone and then the iPad did well was because iOS was designed as a touchscreen interface OS, unlike previous adaptations of Windows. That’s both a benefit and a detriment for an iPad. The interface is simple to use, but for fine manipulations it gets cumbersome. A finger works well but it is not a precision pointing device. The pencil gives increase precision, but costs an additional $100+. Now that a mouse or trackpad can be used will it fragment the software so you end up with some that ‘requires’ a mouse to use it effectively? 
    Anything on iOS that "requires" a mouse (assuming you don't mean literally, as that would likely go against App Store rules) would just be a poorly-designed app.
    You mean like Mail, Pages, Numbers, Word and Excel?   Those "poorly designed" apps?

    The truth is:   You can get by using a finger as a pointer, but for fine work, a mouse is far more efficient.
    None of those things "require a mouse" in iOS by any stretch of the imagination. Maybe you have trouble using them, but I sure don't (at least the Apple apps, I don't use MS Office, so I can't speak to their design on iOS). Also, "fine work" in Mail? Okay...
    Asking if it's "required" is the wrong question.   It's whether or not it improves the user experience.  And, for some/many applications the answer is a clear "yes" -- particularly as it doesn't take away or compromise any other functionality from the iPad.   It's just an additional tool we didn't have before.
    I'm clearly responding to MplsP, who specifically said "required" in the context of bifurcating UI/UX among apps in iOS. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 27 of 66
    mac_128mac_128 Posts: 3,454member
    Some people really can't get over Apple ruining their talking points, defending Apple's resistance to adding a mouse all these years.

    The bottom line is Apple is being totally hypocritical with the iPad by Marketing it with an attached keyboard, but not including a mouse, after stating that they would not bring a touchscreen to the MacBook because it would be awkward to lift one's hands from the keyboard to touch the screen -- exactly the same thing required by an iPad while using a keyboard.

    And for that exact reason, they are adding mouse support. It doesn't matter if it's under accessibility -- that merely allows Apple to save face by insisting that it's there just for the disabled, knowing full well it's likely to serve the very people who would otherwise be using a MacBook, or buy into Apple's marketing that the iPad appears to serve as a MacBook replacement, merely by adding a keyboard.
    GeorgeBMacxixokestral
  • Reply 28 of 66
    MisterKitMisterKit Posts: 427member
    So far the spec is listed as USB mouse and Bluetooth trackpad. I’m wondering if the Magic Mouse will work or does it need to be a wired mouse into a Camera Connection Kit.

    I would also like to see what the mouse cursor looks like. I’m picturing a 3 inch thing that looks like a human finger😄
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 29 of 66
    lorin schultzlorin schultz Posts: 2,771member
    The part I’m most anxious to know is whether adding a mouse will allow me to edit text on an iPad the same way I do on a computer. The existing touch tools are a monumental pain in the ass for me. It takes me at least ten times as long to fix a typo on the iPad as it does on my Mac.
    cgWerksmuthuk_vanalingamGeorgeBMacxixo
  • Reply 30 of 66
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 2,682member
    rogifan_new said:
    Doesn’t look like a trackpad is supported and mouse support doesn’t include text selection.
    Either way, it doesn't look too useful unless you can modify that 'pointer.'
    rogifan_new
  • Reply 31 of 66
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 2,682member
    The part I’m most anxious to know is whether adding a mouse will allow me to edit text on an iPad the same way I do on a computer. The existing touch tools are a monumental pain in the ass for me. It takes me at least ten times as long to fix a typo on the iPad as it does on my Mac.
    Exactly! While I'm sure there are many other more niche examples that could be found, the big one is text editing. Almost everyone who uses an iPad in any kind of remotely pro way (aside from a consumption device), would benefit from substantially speeding up their ability to select text more quickly (especially when you're using a real keyboard).
    xixo
  • Reply 32 of 66
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,001member

    I've been saying that this was inevitable for over a year now and getting beat up for it.
    It's not a "toaster / refrigerator" as many claimed.   It is "One Ring to Rule Them All!"

    With this and desktop level Safari, the iPad just became a man.

    I'm glad that it's finally here!   Although it sounds like Apple may need to fine tune it or finish it off.  I think this will be particularly attractive to students who won't have to buy and lug around two devices.

    (I suspect this will kill off the MacBook but the MacBook Air and MacBook Pros will continue on as strong as ever.   While there is overlap in the functionality, the two form factors and OS's will continue to have different (but complimentary) strengths and weaknesses)
    I think you're overestimating how many people will use this beyond its target audience (people with disabilities, primarily).  You're simulating a single finger in a multi-touch environment, for one. It may be useful in certain niche use cases, but as a general rule most people won't even know it's there.

    "I think this will be particularly attractive to students who won't have to buy and lug around two devices." — I seriously doubt that. 
    Niche use?
    No, it will be useful for most business users and others such as students who work with word processors and spreadsheets -- and make the iPad far more functionally adequate for those tasks -- rather than just squeaking by...

    I suspect you are thinking of traditional iPhone/iPad touch based apps like games.

    The truth is:  A finger works very well for many things.  But for fine work a finger is just too clumsy and you need a cursor -- at least to be efficient.  So, the iPad has both and the user will be able to decide based on what their needs of the moment are...

    As for students not being interested in a single device that meets all their needs:  You might be right for those students who can afford an extras grand or two in order to buy a Mac for heavy word processing.   But, most students I know could easily find better use for that money -- as well as space in their backpack.
    If you say so. You're going to be disappointed with your cursor for "fine work" then:


    EDIT: closer look at that video shows a "Cursor" setting, so curious to see what options are there.

    I meant that most students will never know this accessibility feature exists, much less enable it and start using mice with their iPads. SOME may, but it's not going to be common by any means.

    And, no, I'm not talking about games. Give me a break.
    Why wouldn’t most students know about it? Sure they will. If this makes it into the final release, everyone will know about it. This is what’s known as “a big thing”. It will be written about everywhere. Third parties will have keyboards with trackpads built in (since Smith says that they work).  Companies will advertise that their mice work with the iPad and iOS 13.
    muthuk_vanalingamGeorgeBMacxixowatto_cobra
  • Reply 33 of 66
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 5,477member
    melgross said:

    I've been saying that this was inevitable for over a year now and getting beat up for it.
    It's not a "toaster / refrigerator" as many claimed.   It is "One Ring to Rule Them All!"

    With this and desktop level Safari, the iPad just became a man.

    I'm glad that it's finally here!   Although it sounds like Apple may need to fine tune it or finish it off.  I think this will be particularly attractive to students who won't have to buy and lug around two devices.

    (I suspect this will kill off the MacBook but the MacBook Air and MacBook Pros will continue on as strong as ever.   While there is overlap in the functionality, the two form factors and OS's will continue to have different (but complimentary) strengths and weaknesses)
    I think you're overestimating how many people will use this beyond its target audience (people with disabilities, primarily).  You're simulating a single finger in a multi-touch environment, for one. It may be useful in certain niche use cases, but as a general rule most people won't even know it's there.

    "I think this will be particularly attractive to students who won't have to buy and lug around two devices." — I seriously doubt that. 
    Niche use?
    No, it will be useful for most business users and others such as students who work with word processors and spreadsheets -- and make the iPad far more functionally adequate for those tasks -- rather than just squeaking by...

    I suspect you are thinking of traditional iPhone/iPad touch based apps like games.

    The truth is:  A finger works very well for many things.  But for fine work a finger is just too clumsy and you need a cursor -- at least to be efficient.  So, the iPad has both and the user will be able to decide based on what their needs of the moment are...

    As for students not being interested in a single device that meets all their needs:  You might be right for those students who can afford an extras grand or two in order to buy a Mac for heavy word processing.   But, most students I know could easily find better use for that money -- as well as space in their backpack.
    If you say so. You're going to be disappointed with your cursor for "fine work" then:


    EDIT: closer look at that video shows a "Cursor" setting, so curious to see what options are there.

    I meant that most students will never know this accessibility feature exists, much less enable it and start using mice with their iPads. SOME may, but it's not going to be common by any means.

    And, no, I'm not talking about games. Give me a break.
    Why wouldn’t most students know about it? Sure they will. If this makes it into the final release, everyone will know about it. This is what’s known as “a big thing”. It will be written about everywhere. Third parties will have keyboards with trackpads built in (since Smith says that they work).  Companies will advertise that their mice work with the iPad and iOS 13.
    You're crazy if you think most typical iOS users know about random accessibility options. I also think most younger users aren't as dependent on mice as a few people here seem to think they are. I guess we'll see, won't we?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 34 of 66
    mcdavemcdave Posts: 1,698member
    They caved?  May as well buy a Surface or Galaxy Tab with DeX.
    The brains truly left Apple when Steve died, They can’t tell a customer from a troll.  Let me guess, the focus group who used other products said they should make their products work like everyone else’s.
    xixo
  • Reply 35 of 66
    macguimacgui Posts: 2,020member
    I think you're overestimating how many people will use this beyond its target audience (people with disabilities, primarily).  You're simulating a single finger in a multi-touch environment, for one. It may be useful in certain niche use cases, but as a general rule most people won't even know it's there.
    I think you're underestimating how many people will use this beyond its target audience. If people regularly use a keyboard with the iPad, they're ripe for using a mouse. Not all of them, but it'll catch on.

    You don't have to be disabled or impaired to have trouble getting text highlighted or placing the cursor where you want it, quickly. It can be especially annoying if the iPad is in a case that has a thick border around the perimeter.  This feature wasn't on my list of I Really Want...  but I'll take it.
    edited June 2019 GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 36 of 66
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 9,871member
    The part I’m most anxious to know is whether adding a mouse will allow me to edit text on an iPad the same way I do on a computer. The existing touch tools are a monumental pain in the ass for me. It takes me at least ten times as long to fix a typo on the iPad as it does on my Mac.
    I suspect that it either will or soon will -- because all of the standard mouse functions for positioning and for selecting text are already there.   In fact, they demonstrated some iOS13 enhancements in the keynote.

    It maybe that they are underselling this for marketing reasons: 
    Either they are afraid of offending Mac fans by making the iPad a potent "laptop killer" (which it won't - but it is now a viable "laptop alternative")

    Or possibly they are afraid of being accused of copying the SurfaceBook. 

    But, both are inevitable:  While the first concern will fade away, I'm waiting for the first iPad / Surface Book comparison -- particularly with a 13" iPad Pro which will have enough room for a touchpad on the keyboard.  Other, smaller iPads could use "Track Point" stick like the Lenovo Thinkpads use or an external mouse/trackpad.

    The original track point originated with IBM 30 years ago but continues to this day in Lenovo Thinkpads.  And, while it has both ergonomic advantages and disadvantages to an external mouse, it is ideal for a small keyboard without an external mouse.


    22july2013
  • Reply 37 of 66
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,297member

    MplsP said:
    Interesting - not sure if this is a good or bad thing. Part of the reason the iPhone and then the iPad did well was because iOS was designed as a touchscreen interface OS, unlike previous adaptations of Windows. That’s both a benefit and a detriment for an iPad. The interface is simple to use, but for fine manipulations it gets cumbersome. A finger works well but it is not a precision pointing device. The pencil gives increase precision, but costs an additional $100+. Now that a mouse or trackpad can be used will it fragment the software so you end up with some that ‘requires’ a mouse to use it effectively? 
    Doesn’t look like a trackpad is supported and mouse support doesn’t include text selection.
    FTFA: "Troughton-Smith also confirmed that the same feature is available when you use an Apple Magic Trackpad paired to your iPad running iPadOS."

    What do you mean doesn't include text selection? It's an AssistiveTouch feature, so it simulates anything a finger can do in iOS.
    I’m just going by what I read. And looking at the big-ass round pointer  it sure doesn’t look like text selection would be easy to do. I think the jury is still out on text selection and new cut/copy/paste gestures.
    cgWerks
  • Reply 38 of 66
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 9,871member

    MplsP said:
    Interesting - not sure if this is a good or bad thing. Part of the reason the iPhone and then the iPad did well was because iOS was designed as a touchscreen interface OS, unlike previous adaptations of Windows. That’s both a benefit and a detriment for an iPad. The interface is simple to use, but for fine manipulations it gets cumbersome. A finger works well but it is not a precision pointing device. The pencil gives increase precision, but costs an additional $100+. Now that a mouse or trackpad can be used will it fragment the software so you end up with some that ‘requires’ a mouse to use it effectively? 
    Doesn’t look like a trackpad is supported and mouse support doesn’t include text selection.
    FTFA: "Troughton-Smith also confirmed that the same feature is available when you use an Apple Magic Trackpad paired to your iPad running iPadOS."

    What do you mean doesn't include text selection? It's an AssistiveTouch feature, so it simulates anything a finger can do in iOS.
    I’m just going by what I read. And looking at the big-ass round pointer  it sure doesn’t look like text selection would be easy to do. I think the jury is still out on text selection and new cut/copy/paste gestures.
    I think the new MacPro demonstrates that Apple is returning to pragmatism and practicality (aka:  "Making people's lives better") over the design and exclusivity nonsense they've been locked into the past several years. 

    If, in the final version of iOS13, Apple hasn't perfected pointing, text selection and the cut/copy/paste functions I have confidence that they soon will.   Restricting that functionality is not a hill that they want to stand on.

     


    xixocgWerks
  • Reply 39 of 66
    Here's hoping it ends up supporting the Magic Mouse and Keyboard, or the MS Arc Mouse.  I really like the latter as well.  It's not as versatile as the Magic Mouse, but comes close.
    GeorgeBMacwatto_cobra
  • Reply 40 of 66
    ArpLArpL Posts: 6member
    I switched from lifelong Windows to Mac in 2011. Then back to a Surface Pro 4 (primarily for drawing) right before iPad Pros came out. If the Files management truly works well, this & the ability to use an external drive will make me ditch the Surface for an iPad (I'd still need a Windows desktop for games tho.)
    cgWerkswatto_cobra
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