First look: Mac Pro and Apple Pro Display XDR [u]

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  • Reply 121 of 136
    ajlajl Posts: 113member
    The Pro Stand is only 999 $ ...
  • Reply 122 of 136
    Intel has said that Optane DC PMMs are coming to Xeon-W.

    So I think the DIMM design, twelve slots in two banks of 3x2, looks forward to that possibility. It will be interesting to see how HP handles it in their forthcoming Xeon-Scalable machines with PMM support. That will tell us a lot about how it might look (and what it might cost) in a future Mac Pro.

    Persistent memory is not just for data centers.
    edited June 14
  • Reply 123 of 136
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 2,314member
    chadbag said:
    Apple will sell every one of the Mac Pros they make for the first X time.  Once they are no longer production limited, I am betting we'll see a downmarket derivative of the Mac Pro to satisfy the non-1% Pros.  Ie, a $3299 starting price or something, maybe only 4 PCIe slot, 8 DIMM slots, etc. in a similar case.  
    I hope you're right, but I kind of doubt that. Maybe if, as you say, they create a different kind of machine, but would they keep that same chassis/case? More likely, IMO, they'd finally create something more like the fabled xMac, then. I hope they do either, because I'll buy one. I'm just doubting I'll be that lucky.

    mike fix said:
    It'll take Apple 6 more years to figure that out and get it to market.  In the meantime, the 99% that just can't justify the cost of the 1% Mac Pro will have switched to PCs.
    It's not quite that easier, either, though. I seriously considered that about 6 months ago, but decided it would be too big of a jump. Unless you do something super-specific (like run some CAD/3D app all day), and have pretty light other computer use, it would be a costly/painful transition.

    More likely, they'll just do what I did and get a mini/eGPU, an iMac, or laptop and muddle through. And, they won't be as much an Apple fan as they once were (and that latter point is why Apple needs to do it, as they've been shooting themselves in the brand-value foot for some time now).

    HwGeek said:
    So what do you think about Ryzen 9 3950X 16C 4.7Ghz Boost @ $749?
    How many among you will go for Base $6000 MacPro instead of Ryzen 9 3950X/X570 TB3 Hackintosh?
    P.S- turns out 64C TR coming Q4, great timing to make 40K MacPro 28C owners angry.
    I considered a Hackintosh too, but I just don't have the time/energy for mucking about with that kind of thing anymore. As for AMD, maybe I should look into that more someday, but never really considered going with an AMD CPU for anything. (Oh, actually, I think one of my unix MythTV boxes was AMD based years ago, and I had nothing but troubles.)

    ajl said:
    The Pro Stand is only 999 $ ...
    Most people are going to put them on monitor arms and other kind of office furniture. The $999 stand is for studios who are going to share such an elaborate display... so they can buy stands for places they need the display, and just move it from place to place as needed. Though, since the display itself is so cheap, I'm not sure why they wouldn't just buy several instead of several stands.
  • Reply 124 of 136
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 726member
    HwGeek said:
    mike fix said:
    I used to buy the latest Mac when they came out and it was affordable for the performance.  Simply do yourself a favor and price out the gear that comes with the $6k machine and you'll quickly see you can insanely more power for the same money.  

    [parts list, including:
    $500 LGA 3647 motherboard
    $3100 Xeon W-3175x skylake 28 core processor]

    Yeah, you'll need to throw another few hundred bucks at it for cooling, etc.

    I think we all know that for the 28 core processor in the mac pro, that machine is going to cost well over $10k, most likely over $15k.  

    Even dumber is the fact that Apple could have gone dual socket.  Which for the PC you can, pretty much only doubling the price for the processor and you'd have 56 cores!  

    For $9500 you'd have 56 cores!  Stack in a few more of those NVIDIA cards are you'd be destroying worlds for a 3rd of the cost of an equivalent Mac Pro.

    - Your chip is previous-generation. You'd need the X3275M to match (almost) Apple's 28-core chip. That one costs about $7500.
    - Good luck finding a motherboard that supports 1.5 (or 2?) TB of RAM in 12 slots at that price. And that has 10GbE (much less two). And thunderbolt. And eight PCIe slots and a PCIe switch chip (which is insanely expensive). Etc. If you can even get close, you're probably looking at $1500-$2000.


    I just saw interesting new MB with upto 3TB support and many PCIe slots- only $499!:
    Just make yourself and Hackintosh with the new Xeon W if they will start selling on online PC stores.
    https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813183686

    Oh, I guess it cost only $499 then.
  • Reply 125 of 136
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 726member
    HwGeek said:
    So what do you think about Ryzen 9 3950X 16C 4.7Ghz Boost @ $749?
    How many among you will go for Base $6000 MacPro instead of Ryzen 9 3950X/X570 TB3 Hackintosh?
    P.S- turns out 64C TR coming Q4, great timing to make 40K MacPro 28C owners angry.
    Yeah, I'm glad Macs are moving away from Intel too.
  • Reply 126 of 136
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 726member
    tht said:
    There are 3 memory controllers in the Xeon W-3xxx series, while Intel is limiting memory support to 1 TB and 2 TB depending on model, which don’t happen to be a convenient factor of 3*2^x. How would you do it?

    Going with 8 DIMM slots, 4 slots per controller, means forgoing 1 memory controller and reducing memory performance by a 3rd. And having uneven slots per memory controller (if possible) typically means memory performance drops down to the lowest symmetric configuration.
    TIL.
    edited June 15
  • Reply 127 of 136
    planktonplankton Posts: 108member
    Why no PCIe Gen4?
    The standard has been released for 2 years and Gen5 is coming very soon.
    From Wiki

    On November 29, 2011, PCI-SIG preliminarily announced PCI Express 4.0,[51] providing a 16 GT/s bit rate that doubles the bandwidth provided by PCI Express 3.0, while maintaining backward and forward compatibility in both software support and used mechanical interface.[52] PCI Express 4.0 specs will also bring OCuLink-2, an alternative to Thunderbolt connector. OCuLink version 2 will have up to 16 GT/s (8 GB/s total for ×4 lanes),[30] while the maximum bandwidth of a Thunderbolt 3 connector is 5 GB/s. Additionally, active and idle power optimizations are to be investigated.

    In August 2016, Synopsys presented a test machine running PCIe 4.0 at the Intel Developer Forum. Their IP has been licensed to several firms planning to present their chips and products at the end of 2016.[36]

    PCI Express 4.0 was officially announced on June 8, 2017, by PCI-SIG.[53] The spec includes improvements in flexibility, scalability, and lower-power.

    NETINT Technologies introduced the first NVMe SSD based on PCIe 4.0 on July 17, 2018, ahead of Flash Memory Summit 2018[54]

    Broadcom announced on 12 September 2018 the first 200 Gbit Ethernet Controller with PCIe 4.0.[55]

    AMD announced on 9 January 2019 their upcoming X570 chipset will support PCIe 4.0.[56] AMD planned to enable partial support for older chipsets, but they retracted that promise because of the instability caused by PCIe 4.0.[57][58]



  • Reply 128 of 136
    plankton said:
    Why no PCIe Gen4?
    The standard has been released for 2 years and Gen5 is coming very soon.
    Source: [wccftech]

    Because Intel Xeon Cascade Lake does not support it, and even the next 14nm++ generation, Cooper Lake (2020), also does not, at least not in samples currently shipping. Note that Cooper Lake has a new socket (LGA 4189) and platform, Whitley, which it shares with the first 10nm+ generation, Ice Lake (2020), which will support PCIe Gen4. The new socket and platform support eight channels of DDR4 memory.

    Both of the above currently exist -- we can assume Apple already knows what will happen with Xeon-W.

    After that is 10nm++ Sapphire Rapids in 2021 with PCIe Gen5 and DDR5 support, but that has another new platform, Eagle Stream. 

    So it's very possible that Apple will skip PCIe Gen4 -- it may depend on what Intel does with Xeon-W in relation to the above dual (both 14nm and 10nm) approach to Xeon-Scalable (a.k.a. Xeon-SP). If only Cooper Lake gets Xeon-W and it uses the new socket/platform, then Apple might choose to skip from PCIe Gen3 directly to PCIe Gen5 in late 2021 or 2022.

    Given Intel's troubles with the 10nm process, it seems unlikely the Ice Lake would be used for Xeon-W. But maybe they've solved the yield problems?
    edited June 19
  • Reply 129 of 136
    First post with a question that I cannot find the answer to - or find any reviewer that is even asking the question.

    Given that the new Mac Pro is using Xeon processors, why is there no second slot for dual processors? or more processors? the machine seems to be skewed towards multiple graphics cards - but suppose you wanted maximum cpu power but relatively basic graphics?

    Just an idle question - the machine is well outside my price range.
  • Reply 130 of 136
    thttht Posts: 3,301member
    Prousty said:
    First post with a question that I cannot find the answer to - or find any reviewer that is even asking the question.

    Given that the new Mac Pro is using Xeon processors, why is there no second slot for dual processors? or more processors? the machine seems to be skewed towards multiple graphics cards - but suppose you wanted maximum cpu power but relatively basic graphics?

    Just an idle question - the machine is well outside my price range.
    Intel has segmented its Xeon branded processors even more so than its Core branded processors. The multisocket Xeons, “a second slot for dual processors”, are branded as Xeon SP, scalable processors, that come with metal suffix name sub brands. (Gold, Silver, Platinum, etc). 

    Unfortunately, these are really low GHz, high core count processors, really meant for servers. A big part of the desktop or workstation experience is it being fast. The low GHz, the single thread experience is a big part of this. There were only 2 Xeon SP processors that were suitable for desktop systems. 

    Towards this end, Intel created the Xeon W, “W” for workstation, line which has the high GHz, single thread performance for desktop systems. These are only 1 socket systems though. 

    Apple could create a 2 socket, or even 8 socket, Xeon SP system, but the market that wants that many cores on a desktop gets ever smaller. At same point, the buyer would just have a rack in a server room. 
    SoliProustycgWerksfastasleep
  • Reply 131 of 136
    ProustyProusty Posts: 2member
    Thank you, Tht
  • Reply 132 of 136
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 2,314member
    tht said:
    Apple could create a 2 socket, or even 8 socket, Xeon SP system, but the market that wants that many cores on a desktop gets ever smaller. At same point, the buyer would just have a rack in a server room. 
    I think that's the big point. While I'm sure some of these MPs will be deployed as app servers or things like that, most of them will be workstations. 28 cores, even, is probably overkill for that kind of work, at which point you go to cloud or server-farms.
  • Reply 133 of 136
    How many months / years are we going to have to wait for the notify me?
    edited September 19
  • Reply 134 of 136
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 4,965administrator
    mike fix said:
    How many months / years are we going to have to wait for the notify me?
    "Coming this Fall"

    Not quite there yet.
    cgWerks
  • Reply 135 of 136
    mike fix said:
    How many months / years are we going to have to wait for the notify me?
    "Coming this Fall"

    Not quite there yet.
    Monday then?  Or most likely, Dec 22nd on the very last day...  
    cgWerks
  • Reply 136 of 136
    mike fix said:
    mike fix said:
    How many months / years are we going to have to wait for the notify me?
    "Coming this Fall"

    Not quite there yet.
    Monday then?  Or most likely, Dec 22nd on the very last day...  
    I think (guess) the original plan was October 4 along with Catalina, but the need for certainty with regard to tariff exemptions led to delays. So mid-December now?
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