First ARM Mac said to arrive in 2021 with custom Apple chip

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 78
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    knowitall said:
    It will be the best move of Apple, ever.

    It is also important to do it as fast as possible, late 2020 is already a bit late.
    Maybe no one sees this coming but competition from opensource hardware and software designs will be intense.
    Pine64 makes ARM hardware with Linux on it (not Android!) which is a decision as good as Apples macOS (Unix) on ARM.
    The point is that a Pine phone costs $150, and no it isn’t junk at all it is pretty impressive.
    On such hardware it is possible to install (for example) openbsd, one of the most secure and unhackable oses of this time,..
    I’m doing that as a project on my Rock64.
    Not being in a closed system has a lot of important benefits.
     
    Yup, great for hackers, but people with work to do will ignore it, just like they ignored Linux on the desktop.
    StrangeDayschialolliverwatto_cobra
  • Reply 42 of 78
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    jasenj1 said:
    What does this imply for Windows VMs and BootCamp? Like it or not, the business world is still dominated by Windows, and being able to run Windows is a must have for many people.

    Apple dominates in the phone & tablet markets, and can support custom CPUs there, but do they really want to take on the desktop CPU world? Or are Intel & AMD saddled with lots of legacy cruft that Apple would be well-served to get away from? But I still fear becoming too divergent from the dominant desktop CPU architecture will end up hurting them.

    It's a must for many people, the question is, how many? Office runs on Mac, so does the Adobe suite. Not really sure Apple is that concerned about anything else anymore. They can't allow them to be held back by folk who still need to run FoxPro

    lolliverwatto_cobra
  • Reply 43 of 78
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member

    blastdoor said:

    Like I said before, if Apple makes an ARM core running x86 instructions, it minimize the transition problems for existing apps.

    I'm not saying this is what Apple will do, but If I were Apple, this is what I would do, hear me out on this:

    1, x86 instructions are the processor codes, not the OS.  Both Windows and OS X are compiled into x86 instructions.
    2, There used to be a RISC vs CISC architecture war to see which is faster. But Intel (and AMD) started to use x86 instructions on top of RISC-like cores and lines were blurred.
    3, Intel just entered 10 nm process but Apple  A14 is already going to use 5 nm, there may be room for x86 compatibility
    4, Make the compatibility at the lowest level (closer to the hardware) helps existing software run faster.
    5, Apple may need to license x86 instructions, AMD has a cross license deal with Intel on x86 for AMD's x86-64.
    6, Intel may decide it is better to get a licensing deal with Apple since it is profit without the cost of manufacturing.
    It won't happen because it's not necessary. 

    Unlike in previous architecture transitions, Apple not only has total control over the software stack (from kernel to APIs to development tools) but they have also totally removed all of the last vestiges of the classic MacOS. Everything is now not only based on NeXT technology, but that technology has gone though several generations of refinement. Even back in the 90s, NeXTStep was easily ported to multiple CPU architectures (68k; PPC; x86). Today, portability is even easier thanks to all the work Apple has put into things like LLVM, Clang, and Swift. 

    I predict that it will be very easy for the vast majority of developers to port to ARM -- far easier than prior transitions. The only need for x86 emulation would be apps whose developers have got out of business or chosen to abandon the apps, but by definition, those apps don't have much of a future anyway. Any app that is still being sold and updated will be quickly ported. 
    I was going to say much the same thing, but with swearwords.

    4, Make the compatibility at the lowest level (closer to the hardware) helps existing software run faster.
    5, Apple may need to license x86 instructions, AMD has a cross license deal with Intel on x86 for AMD's x86-64.

    Worst. two. ideas. ever.

    Apple has spent billions of dollars and put its developer base through the wringer so it can be free of Intel and gain performance advantages of controlling the stack from top to bottom. Why in the name of Bugs Bunny would they then license an instruction set and tie themselves to Intel for another thirty years?
    edited April 2020 pscooter63chialolliverfastasleeprundhvidwatto_cobra
  • Reply 44 of 78
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    wood1208 said:
    Apple ARM Macbook Pro; count me in. I have confident that when Apple releases ARM based MAC, performance will be if not better than on par with Intel/AMD offerings.Not only that but Apple will have long term plan for foreseeable future. .On software, long as major titles are ported, rest will follow fast.

    Count me out. Projects like this are a complete waste of resources.
    Curious, why you think that is?
    I couldn't even be bothered to ask, but it's a fair question.
    edited April 2020 StrangeDayslolliverwatto_cobra
  • Reply 45 of 78
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member

    Rayz2016 said:

    k2kw said:
    Hopefully this will come with iPadOS and not MacOS.    

    What would be the point of that? If you have an iPad with a keyboard you've got the same thing.
    Except that it's not the same thing. The iPad Pro with keyboard is thicker and heavier than the MacBook Air. 
    Then you buy a MacBook Air.
    lolliver
  • Reply 46 of 78
    DRBDRB Posts: 34member
    Until a report comes directly from Apple, I am only going to believe that any new ARM processors are going to be for iOS based devices, not macOS...
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 47 of 78
    Working in a big organization (20,000+) I can’t ‘use’ my personal computer for work regardless of whether it’s a Mac, a Mac running Win10 via bootcamp, or a PC.  My personal machine is only a vessel to VPN into the corporate network and work in a VM or RDP into my office PC. Nothing runs locally, nothing is stored locally.  

    I think I’ll be able to continue doing that even with an ARM Mac.  
    lolliverwatto_cobra
  • Reply 48 of 78
    bloggerblogbloggerblog Posts: 2,312member
    Rayz2016 said:

    Rayz2016 said:

    k2kw said:
    Hopefully this will come with iPadOS and not MacOS.    

    What would be the point of that? If you have an iPad with a keyboard you've got the same thing.
    Except that it's not the same thing. The iPad Pro with keyboard is thicker and heavier than the MacBook Air. 
    Then you buy a MacBook Air.
    One could also argue that if you need a keyboard just buy a MacBook. The difference is iPad OS, it seems Apple may have a new device form factor for the OS. This is all speculation of course, but I do see Apple taking such route.
    edited April 2020 watto_cobra
  • Reply 49 of 78
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,251member
    rcfa said:
    k2kw said:
    Hopefully this will come with iPadOS and not MacOS.   
    That’s absolutely the LAST thing we need: a further move to a closed platform where you have no idea what processes run in the background, and which won’t allow you to install anything but crippled AppStore software 🤮

    What we should see is the ability to install macOS on iPad Pros in conjunction with the keyboard/trackpad, and the addition of a third UI mode.
    We already have windowed and full-screen modes in macOS, all that’s required is to add a touchUI mode.

    But I’m sick of the limitations of iOS and iPadOS, you can’t even look at the raw message of an e-Mail to analyze headers or embedded URL to see if something is real or a phishing attempt.

    There’s no decent file system, no ability to check on background tasks, so if your device is hacked, you have no way of telling, you can’t install any network analysis software, because you’re not given access to MAC-addresses, etc. etc.

    iOS and iPadOS are NOT useful as a work platform, they are media consumption platforms which also allow some convenience features like occasional e-Mail checking. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Been waiting for years for something more, and the potential to see a real OS i.e. macOS on an iPad-like device, THAT is something to get excited about. Not another f*ing iteration of iOS/iPadOS 🤮
    So much wrong, but...I have better things to do than reply to a bunch of trollbait. 
    chiaWTimbermanlolliverwatto_cobra
  • Reply 50 of 78
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,251member

    FPRoyal said:
    There's no way this thing doesn't run some version of ios. I realize we may not like it, but Apple currently has basically two product lines: one of them is synonymous with success and money and the other has been on some version of life support since its inception.
    Quick education for you — iOS itself is based on OS X, or what is now known as macOS. 

    Apple’s Mac line of business has been anything but on life support — it generates a lot of profit, go back and review the quarterlies. As I recall Apple’s Mac line has often sucked in more profit than PC vendors.
    edited April 2020 chiathtlolliverwatto_cobra
  • Reply 51 of 78
    rcfa said:
    k2kw said:
    Hopefully this will come with iPadOS and not MacOS.   
    That’s absolutely the LAST thing we need: a further move to a closed platform where you have no idea what processes run in the background, and which won’t allow you to install anything but crippled AppStore software 🤮

    What we should see is the ability to install macOS on iPad Pros in conjunction with the keyboard/trackpad, and the addition of a third UI mode.
    We already have windowed and full-screen modes in macOS, all that’s required is to add a touchUI mode.

    But I’m sick of the limitations of iOS and iPadOS, you can’t even look at the raw message of an e-Mail to analyze headers or embedded URL to see if something is real or a phishing attempt.

    There’s no decent file system, no ability to check on background tasks, so if your device is hacked, you have no way of telling, you can’t install any network analysis software, because you’re not given access to MAC-addresses, etc. etc.

    iOS and iPadOS are NOT useful as a work platform, they are media consumption platforms which also allow some convenience features like occasional e-Mail checking. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Been waiting for years for something more, and the potential to see a real OS i.e. macOS on an iPad-like device, THAT is something to get excited about. Not another f*ing iteration of iOS/iPadOS 🤮
    What limits one user enables another. I find the iPad Pro a remarkably flexible and highly mobile tool for the daily tasks I have to perform. For me, it’s kinda like a Swiss Army knife — not ideal for every use case, but serviceable for a wider range of use cases than any other single computing device I’ve ever owned. Face ID for web logins alone has saved me tens of hours in the past year, even considering Mac Safari’s increasing facility with iCloud keychain. Can a sysadmin control his server farm with an iPad? Well, probably not, but, frankly, if that’s the sort of thing that’s convinced you that an iPad is useless as a platform for getting work done, I’d argue that your idea of what counts as work is awfully parochial. Really, people will pay you enough to live on for what you can do for them with an iPad. That’s not nothing. (Ask Federico Viticci. Lots of us are happy as clams working on iPads, but few of us can explain why we love that state of affairs as well as he can.)
    chialolliverfastasleeprundhvidwatto_cobra
  • Reply 52 of 78
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,251member
    Rayz2016 said:
    knowitall said:
    It will be the best move of Apple, ever.

    It is also important to do it as fast as possible, late 2020 is already a bit late.
    Maybe no one sees this coming but competition from opensource hardware and software designs will be intense.
    Pine64 makes ARM hardware with Linux on it (not Android!) which is a decision as good as Apples macOS (Unix) on ARM.
    The point is that a Pine phone costs $150, and no it isn’t junk at all it is pretty impressive.
    On such hardware it is possible to install (for example) openbsd, one of the most secure and unhackable oses of this time,..
    I’m doing that as a project on my Rock64.
    Not being in a closed system has a lot of important benefits.
     
    Yup, great for hackers, but people with work to do will ignore it, just like they ignored Linux on the desktop.
    I am LOL’ing at the neckbeards still yammering about why open systems are better, while the rest of the world are fine with closed systems that actually work well and offer tremendous value. 
    chiaWTimbermanlolliverwatto_cobra
  • Reply 53 of 78
    Rayz2016 said:
    knowitall said:
    It will be the best move of Apple, ever.

    It is also important to do it as fast as possible, late 2020 is already a bit late.
    Maybe no one sees this coming but competition from opensource hardware and software designs will be intense.
    Pine64 makes ARM hardware with Linux on it (not Android!) which is a decision as good as Apples macOS (Unix) on ARM.
    The point is that a Pine phone costs $150, and no it isn’t junk at all it is pretty impressive.
    On such hardware it is possible to install (for example) openbsd, one of the most secure and unhackable oses of this time,..
    I’m doing that as a project on my Rock64.
    Not being in a closed system has a lot of important benefits.
     
    Yup, great for hackers, but people with work to do will ignore it, just like they ignored Linux on the desktop.
    I am LOL’ing at the neckbeards still yammering about why open systems are better, while the rest of the world are fine with closed systems that actually work well and offer tremendous value. 
    A walled garden allows you to focus on the work, and not the systems you are using to accomplish that work.  A friend of mine wanted to start a career as an animator.  At a conference he asked an industry professional if the built his own PC’s or bought off-the-shelf.  The guy asked him if he wanted to be an animator, or a tinkerer who made a couple of bucks doing some animation.  For the former he said to go to a store, drop your credit card, buy a proper pc complete with service contract and pay for all your software.  Then go home and start making money. If something goes wrong, call for service, and resume making money asap. 
    WTimbermanlolliverfastasleeprundhvidwatto_cobra
  • Reply 54 of 78
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,540administrator
    Beats said:
    Why does it have to run iPadOS? Ridiculous.

    jimh2 said:
    knowitall said:
    It will be the best move of Apple, ever.

    It is also important to do it as fast as possible, late 2020 is already a bit late.
    Maybe no one sees this coming but competition from opensource hardware and software designs will be intense.
    Pine64 makes ARM hardware with Linux on it (not Android!) which is a decision as good as Apples macOS (Unix) on ARM.
    The point is that a Pine phone costs $150, and no it isn’t junk at all it is pretty impressive.
    On such hardware it is possible to install (for example) openbsd, one of the most secure and unhackable oses of this time,..
    I’m doing that as a project on my Rock64.
    Not being in a closed system has a lot of important benefits.
     
    Pine: no following, no software, no App Store, no nothing other than cheap. Hardly anything than another also ran. People buy Apple products because they work.

    Looked it up. Just another iKnockoff using Apples technology. Thumbs up for the ounce of software originality though. When companies make anything original it's an complicated, ugly mess.


    P.S. Apple Insider seems to be flooding the site with ARM Mac stories. Probably to secure future articles explaining how they predicted these. "In 2020 Apple Insider told you these were coming", with link.
    In 2017, AppleInsider told you this was coming.

    https://appleinsider.com/articles/17/09/29/apple-looking-to-develop-custom-arm-chips-for-future-macs-cutting-out-intel---report
    bloggerblogfastasleepGeorgeBMacrundhvidwatto_cobra
  • Reply 55 of 78
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,603member
    "This is where things get fuzzy. On Apple's current iPad Pro webpage and their latest iPad Pro video they state: "Your next computer is not a computer. It’s so fast most PC laptops can’t catch up." The new iPad Pro. 
     
    It would appear that there could be a clash, at some point in time, between this future MacBook with an ARM processor and the iPad Pro being that both will be sharing the same base processor.
     
    Will a future iPad Pro simply look like a hard-shelled MacBook hybrid? Could the new MacBooks offer twice the brute power? At present there are more questions than answers on the MacBook front of this rumor."

    watto_cobra
  • Reply 56 of 78
    jasenj1jasenj1 Posts: 922member
    Rayz2016 said:

    It's a must for many people, the question is, how many? Office runs on Mac, so does the Adobe suite. Not really sure Apple is that concerned about anything else anymore. They can't allow them to be held back by folk who still need to run FoxPro

    But Office on Mac and Windows do not have feature parity. Adobe Acrobat does not have feature parity. Visio & Project are not available on the Mac.
    And that's just a handful of popular business apps that I encounter on a regular basis.
  • Reply 57 of 78
    Question:  if Windows has an ARM version of its OS, could an ARM based Mac Bootcamp or dual boot to ARM Windows? However bad the ARM Windows might be right now... 
    I think from a technological standpoint it's possible; but feasibility from a business perspective I find it questionable. Even in it's current state running x86 Windows (natively or virtually) on Intel-based Macs is a very niche segment.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 58 of 78
    joeblack said:
    Question:  if Windows has an ARM version of its OS, could an ARM based Mac Bootcamp or dual boot to ARM Windows? However bad the ARM Windows might be right now... 
    I think from a technological standpoint it's possible; but feasibility from a business perspective I find it questionable. Even in it's current state running x86 Windows (natively or virtually) on Intel-based Macs is a very niche segment.
    Agreed, but I think that niche segment will be quite vocal about losing that capability on ARM. “... was a big benefit of migrating to X86...”. “... going backwards...” etc. To be fair, Apple did tout it as a benefit last time.  
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 59 of 78
    mcdavemcdave Posts: 1,919member
    rcfa said:
    k2kw said:
    Hopefully this will come with iPadOS and not MacOS.   
    That’s absolutely the LAST thing we need: a further move to a closed platform where you have no idea what processes run in the background, and which won’t allow you to install anything but crippled AppStore software 🤮

    What we should see is the ability to install macOS on iPad Pros in conjunction with the keyboard/trackpad, and the addition of a third UI mode.
    We already have windowed and full-screen modes in macOS, all that’s required is to add a touchUI mode.

    But I’m sick of the limitations of iOS and iPadOS, you can’t even look at the raw message of an e-Mail to analyze headers or embedded URL to see if something is real or a phishing attempt.

    There’s no decent file system, no ability to check on background tasks, so if your device is hacked, you have no way of telling, you can’t install any network analysis software, because you’re not given access to MAC-addresses, etc. etc.

    iOS and iPadOS are NOT useful as a work platform, they are media consumption platforms which also allow some convenience features like occasional e-Mail checking. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Been waiting for years for something more, and the potential to see a real OS i.e. macOS on an iPad-like device, THAT is something to get excited about. Not another f*ing iteration of iOS/iPadOS 🤮
    Except nothing you’ve described is WORK everything you’ve described is DISTRACTION. I’m sick of hobbyist PC toys being passed off as WORK/BUSINESS tools when they are anything but.

    With a few tweaks iPads are better business tools than Mac or Windows PCs ever we’re because they focus the user on productive activities. That said, the rumour is for ARM Macs, not ARM iPads because we already have those.
    lolliverWTimbermanwatto_cobra
  • Reply 60 of 78
    revenantrevenant Posts: 621member
    wasn't this the same publication that said apple had Chinese spy chips in their devices? i mean, everyone is saying that apple is going in this direction, but it is hard for me to take all of the details in this Bloomsburg article seriously 
    edited April 2020 rundhvidwatto_cobra
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