Oracle's TikTok deal fails to resolve US security concerns [u]

Posted:
in General Discussion edited September 2020
Oracle's bid for the U.S. operations of social media platform TikTok does not fully resolve White House national security concerns, according to a new report.

Credit: Kon Karampelas
Credit: Kon Karampelas


On Sunday, it was reported that Microsoft's bid to acquire TikTok's U.S. arm had failed and that Oracle had closed a deal with developer ByteDance. The Chinese parent company has until Sept. 20 to ink a deal to avoid a ban on TikTok in the U.S.

President Donald Trump has the authority to sign off on the acquisition, but Bloomberg reports that the Oracle and TikTok deal falls short of resolving national security concerns about Chinese espionage. Currently, the agreement is still being negotiated between administration officials and the two companies. Addressing those security concerns, which could include barring ByteDance's access to U.S. data, could be the key to government approval.

The structure of the deal is still unclear. Earlier in September, ByteDance was said to be in talks with the U.S. government to avoid a full sale of TikTok's operations in the country. Under terms of the deal, Oracle would be granted full access to TikTok's source code to ensure no back doors exist to siphon personal information from the service's 100 million active American users, sources said.

Similarly, the talks are taking place against the backdrop of Chinese government restrictions on technology exports. On Friday, Beijing signaled that it would prefer to see TikTok shut down in the U.S. than sold to a domestic company.

Updated with details about source code access.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 26
    Seemed like a sham arrangement, anyway. Too clever by half.

    So glad the US administration is taking a tough stance.
    cat52MplsPFileMakerFellerSpamSandwichwatto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 26
    DAalsethDAalseth Posts: 2,125member
    Of course the White House isn't Happy. This whole thing is a political sham. BS to try and win votes by being hard on the Chinese. They want to nurse it out as long as they can get the press to pay attention.
    edited September 2020 chasmFileMakerFelleravon b7ronnwatto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 26
    chasmchasm Posts: 2,500member
    I concur with DAalseth. This entire thing was a manufactured “crisis” with no provided evidence of malfeasance by Bytedance at any point. I am definitely not a fan of TikTok and would have been ready to believe any credible evidence of any nefarious behaviour, but none at all has been put forth ... the president started this because TikTok users embarrassed him, plain and simple, and he is indeed using his retribution as a campaign prop, and further not considering the damage the soured relationship with China will cause other American tech firms.

    Even if I’m gullible enough to dislike Bytedance for the sole reason that they are a foreign company ... um, are Americans ready to give up Samsung, Acer, Asus, Honda, Hyundai, Sharp, Toyota, Hisense, TCL, and literally hundreds of popular but foreign-owned brands from nearly every aspect of your lives?

    then to force a deal that JUST HAPPENS to favour a big-dollar contributor to the president ... what an AMAZING coincidence!

    Give me a break!
    FileMakerFellermuthuk_vanalingamredgeminipaavon b7beowulfschmidtwatto_cobra
  • Reply 4 of 26
    We know he has more important things to attend to. Evidence so far leads to the question of whether or not he actually will attend to those things rather than continuing to be petty and vindictive.
    muthuk_vanalingamronnpujones1watto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 26
    cat52 said:
    DAalseth said:
    Of course the White House isn't Happy. This whole thing is a political sham. BS to try and win votes by being hard on the Chinese. They want to nurse it out as long as they can get the press to pay attention.

    With everything else going on in 2020, do you really think Trump being hard on TikTok is going to influence the average Joe to vote one way or the other?

    Since all of us here are ardent technophiles, we tend to magnify such things out of all proportion to how average folk see them, that is, assuming they see them at all.

    So the whole schtick that Trump is going hard on TikTok for purely political reasons is a pretty ridiculous claim to make...


    But at least you didn't mention the canard that Trump is going after TikTok due to TikTok supposedly embarrassing him at the Tulsa rally.  I mean, I think the dude has more important things to attend to, for instance the various Mideast peace deals recently announced etc etc.

    LOL! Peace deals with countries who the US has been peaceful with already? LOL, talk about a sham! Trump was embarrassed, period. This is EXACTLY the kind of thing he prefers to put his effort into, instead of, you know... a global pandemic, with hundreds of thousands of American lives at stake. 
    ronnpujones1muthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 26
    cat52 said:
    DAalseth said:
    Of course the White House isn't Happy. This whole thing is a political sham. BS to try and win votes by being hard on the Chinese. They want to nurse it out as long as they can get the press to pay attention.

    With everything else going on in 2020, do you really think Trump being hard on TikTok is going to influence the average Joe to vote one way or the other?


    No, but that isn't the issue. Does Trump think it might play well, that's the question.
    ronnwatto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 26
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,297member
    cat52 said:
    DAalseth said:
    Of course the White House isn't Happy. This whole thing is a political sham. BS to try and win votes by being hard on the Chinese. They want to nurse it out as long as they can get the press to pay attention.

    With everything else going on in 2020, do you really think Trump being hard on TikTok is going to influence the average Joe to vote one way or the other?

    Since all of us here are ardent technophiles, we tend to magnify such things out of all proportion to how average folk see them, that is, assuming they see them at all.

    So the whole schtick that Trump is going hard on TikTok for purely political reasons is a pretty ridiculous claim to make...


    But at least you didn't mention the canard that Trump is going after TikTok due to TikTok supposedly embarrassing him at the Tulsa rally.  I mean, I think the dude has more important things to attend to, for instance the various Mideast peace deals recently announced etc etc.

    You avoid touching on his main point. 

    Lack of any supporting evidence. 

    This is now the de facto US approach to basically anything successful coming out of China. Crush it on so called national security grounds. People are now even mocking that notion by labelling it National Insecurity grounds. 

    By successful I mean anything that could overshadow US capacity in the tech field.

    So now we have extraterritorial moves as well as national moves without even a shred of evidence to support the claims.

    We see Pompeo talking of 'clean' networks when the US has been making nefarious use of 'dirty' networks for decades (we have plenty of evidence of that btw).

    We now have situations where SMIC (Chinese company) cannot sell products to Huawei (Chinese company) without 'permission' (licence) from Trump first.

    This course of action is going to decimate US technological efforts the world over as companies race to rid themselves of even trace elements of US technology in their supply chains. This will mean devastation for US interests in the mid to long term. 

    It is estimated that with Huawei alone, the US tech sector is set to lose $18bn in revenues this year. 

    It is also causing problems with oversupply as companies are left with component overstock. 

    And last but not least, it is forcing China to vastly accelerate it plans for semiconductor self suffiency. That will be a huge nail in the coffin of US technological influence. 

    And for what? Election hopes? 

    That looks like a big price to pay going forward. 
    edited September 2020 ronn
  • Reply 8 of 26
    DAalseth said:
    cat52 said:
    DAalseth said:
    Of course the White House isn't Happy. This whole thing is a political sham. BS to try and win votes by being hard on the Chinese. They want to nurse it out as long as they can get the press to pay attention.

    With everything else going on in 2020, do you really think Trump being hard on TikTok is going to influence the average Joe to vote one way or the other?


    No, but that isn't the issue. Does Trump think it might play well, that's the question.
    TikTok is the smallest of small potatoes. And by the way, it has been banned in other countries (Indonesia and India, reportedly) as a security risk, not just the US.
    cat52anantksundaramwatto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 26
    wood1208wood1208 Posts: 2,766member
    chasm said:
    I concur with DAalseth. This entire thing was a manufactured “crisis” with no provided evidence of malfeasance by Bytedance at any point. I am definitely not a fan of TikTok and would have been ready to believe any credible evidence of any nefarious behaviour, but none at all has been put forth ... the president started this because TikTok users embarrassed him, plain and simple, and he is indeed using his retribution as a campaign prop, and further not considering the damage the soured relationship with China will cause other American tech firms.

    Even if I’m gullible enough to dislike Bytedance for the sole reason that they are a foreign company ... um, are Americans ready to give up Samsung, Acer, Asus, Honda, Hyundai, Sharp, Toyota, Hisense, TCL, and literally hundreds of popular but foreign-owned brands from nearly every aspect of your lives?

    then to force a deal that JUST HAPPENS to favour a big-dollar contributor to the president ... what an AMAZING coincidence!

    Give me a break!

    China already has caused lots of trouble and damage to American tech and in other fields. It's too late for USA to repair the damage already caused but worth try to stop further bleeding by China to USA and the rest of world.. Most uninformed Americans and non-Chinese citizens don't have clue about China's long term strategy to cripple other countries economy by buying/controlling there resources, become world's design(steal IP, copy bluntly,etc),manufacturing hub, than export at lower price. In few years, no one can compete against China. Yuan goes up, dollar,Euro,etc goes down.
    Some of us don't like Mr. Trump or his style but one thing to admire is he has big balls to stand up against China which others in USA and rest of world is afraid of even trying.
    cat52watto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 26
    DAalseth said:
    cat52 said:
    DAalseth said:
    Of course the White House isn't Happy. This whole thing is a political sham. BS to try and win votes by being hard on the Chinese. They want to nurse it out as long as they can get the press to pay attention.

    With everything else going on in 2020, do you really think Trump being hard on TikTok is going to influence the average Joe to vote one way or the other?


    No, but that isn't the issue. Does Trump think it might play well, that's the question.
    You guys are forgetting that a lot of our younger voters use TikTok and this could royally upset them if they're not able to use it.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 26
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 17,873member
    DAalseth said:
    Of course the White House isn't Happy. This whole thing is a political sham. BS to try and win votes by being hard on the Chinese. They want to nurse it out as long as they can get the press to pay attention.
    It's a bipartisan issue. Or haven't you noticed?  
    cat52watto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 26
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 17,873member

    chasm said:
    I concur with DAalseth. This entire thing was a manufactured “crisis” with no provided evidence of malfeasance by Bytedance at any point. I am definitely not a fan of TikTok and would have been ready to believe any credible evidence of any nefarious behaviour, but none at all has been put forth ... the president started this because TikTok users embarrassed him, plain and simple, and he is indeed using his retribution as a campaign prop, and further not considering the damage the soured relationship with China will cause other American tech firms.

    Even if I’m gullible enough to dislike Bytedance for the sole reason that they are a foreign company ... um, are Americans ready to give up Samsung, Acer, Asus, Honda, Hyundai, Sharp, Toyota, Hisense, TCL, and literally hundreds of popular but foreign-owned brands from nearly every aspect of your lives?

    then to force a deal that JUST HAPPENS to favour a big-dollar contributor to the president ... what an AMAZING coincidence!

    Give me a break!

    Well then, with all due respect, you're completely ignorant of how the Chinese operate.  ByteDance, as a Chinese company, is obligated to share all sorts of data with the communist Chinese government.  The government is oppressive, and uses companies like them under threat of force to spy on us and steal intellectual property, user data, etc.  This is a bipartisan issue.  You'll notice that few Democrats have come out as hard as you have.  TikTok represents a major U.S. security threat.  Now, is Trump using it?  Of course he is  He's a president running for re-election.  But that doesn't mean the threat isn't real.  It doesn't mean it's "manufactured."  And your theory about TikTok users "embarrassing" him is thin at best.  TikTok may have played some role in reduced attendance in Tulsa, but it's impossible to say how much.  
    cat52SpamSandwichtmaywatto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 26
    JinTech said:
    DAalseth said:
    cat52 said:
    DAalseth said:
    Of course the White House isn't Happy. This whole thing is a political sham. BS to try and win votes by being hard on the Chinese. They want to nurse it out as long as they can get the press to pay attention.

    With everything else going on in 2020, do you really think Trump being hard on TikTok is going to influence the average Joe to vote one way or the other?


    No, but that isn't the issue. Does Trump think it might play well, that's the question.
    You guys are forgetting that a lot of our younger voters use TikTok and this could royally upset them if they're not able to use it.
    "Younger voters vote" is an oxymoron.
    cat52watto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 26
    JinTech said:
    DAalseth said:
    cat52 said:
    DAalseth said:
    Of course the White House isn't Happy. This whole thing is a political sham. BS to try and win votes by being hard on the Chinese. They want to nurse it out as long as they can get the press to pay attention.

    With everything else going on in 2020, do you really think Trump being hard on TikTok is going to influence the average Joe to vote one way or the other?


    No, but that isn't the issue. Does Trump think it might play well, that's the question.
    You guys are forgetting that a lot of our younger voters use TikTok and this could royally upset them if they're not able to use it.
    When TikTok users move out of their parent’s basements and start to pay taxes from their job, then I’ll pay attention to them. Their opinions right now are irrelevant.
    cat52watto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 26
    JinTech said:
    DAalseth said:
    cat52 said:
    DAalseth said:
    Of course the White House isn't Happy. This whole thing is a political sham. BS to try and win votes by being hard on the Chinese. They want to nurse it out as long as they can get the press to pay attention.

    With everything else going on in 2020, do you really think Trump being hard on TikTok is going to influence the average Joe to vote one way or the other?


    No, but that isn't the issue. Does Trump think it might play well, that's the question.
    You guys are forgetting that a lot of our younger voters use TikTok and this could royally upset them if they're not able to use it.
    When TikTok users move out of their parent’s basements and start to pay taxes from their job, then I’ll pay attention to them. Their opinions right now are irrelevant.
    Funny, a good friend of mine, (who also happens to be in her late 20's) uses TikTok quite a bit. Maybe you haven't used TikTok because it does not "meet your demographic" you would be surprised of the age range on that app. I have seen videos from kids all the way to older parents and everything in-between.
    ronnwatto_cobra
  • Reply 16 of 26
    JinTech said:
    JinTech said:
    DAalseth said:
    cat52 said:
    DAalseth said:
    Of course the White House isn't Happy. This whole thing is a political sham. BS to try and win votes by being hard on the Chinese. They want to nurse it out as long as they can get the press to pay attention.

    With everything else going on in 2020, do you really think Trump being hard on TikTok is going to influence the average Joe to vote one way or the other?


    No, but that isn't the issue. Does Trump think it might play well, that's the question.
    You guys are forgetting that a lot of our younger voters use TikTok and this could royally upset them if they're not able to use it.
    When TikTok users move out of their parent’s basements and start to pay taxes from their job, then I’ll pay attention to them. Their opinions right now are irrelevant.
    Funny, a good friend of mine, (who also happens to be in her late 20's) uses TikTok quite a bit. Maybe you haven't used TikTok because it does not "meet your demographic" you would be surprised of the age range on that app. I have seen videos from kids all the way to older parents and everything in-between.
    None of these factors matter. The President is the head of national security (whether anyone here likes that fact or not) and if he sees sufficient reason to ban this app, it’s banned.
    cat52watto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 26
    JinTech said:
    JinTech said:
    DAalseth said:
    cat52 said:
    DAalseth said:
    Of course the White House isn't Happy. This whole thing is a political sham. BS to try and win votes by being hard on the Chinese. They want to nurse it out as long as they can get the press to pay attention.

    With everything else going on in 2020, do you really think Trump being hard on TikTok is going to influence the average Joe to vote one way or the other?


    No, but that isn't the issue. Does Trump think it might play well, that's the question.
    You guys are forgetting that a lot of our younger voters use TikTok and this could royally upset them if they're not able to use it.
    When TikTok users move out of their parent’s basements and start to pay taxes from their job, then I’ll pay attention to them. Their opinions right now are irrelevant.
    Funny, a good friend of mine, (who also happens to be in her late 20's) uses TikTok quite a bit. Maybe you haven't used TikTok because it does not "meet your demographic" you would be surprised of the age range on that app. I have seen videos from kids all the way to older parents and everything in-between.
    None of these factors matter. The President is the head of national security (whether anyone here likes that fact or not) and if he sees sufficient reason to ban this app, it’s banned.
    Sure but my point is, if he pisses off the little more than 68% install base who can vote, that could leave Trump without just a little more 25.16 million votes in November. Sure not all of those are die hard TikTok users but he could lose a few million votes because of it. "Don't bite the hand that feeds you!"
    ronnwatto_cobra
  • Reply 18 of 26
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 17,873member
    JinTech said:
    JinTech said:
    JinTech said:
    DAalseth said:
    cat52 said:
    DAalseth said:
    Of course the White House isn't Happy. This whole thing is a political sham. BS to try and win votes by being hard on the Chinese. They want to nurse it out as long as they can get the press to pay attention.

    With everything else going on in 2020, do you really think Trump being hard on TikTok is going to influence the average Joe to vote one way or the other?


    No, but that isn't the issue. Does Trump think it might play well, that's the question.
    You guys are forgetting that a lot of our younger voters use TikTok and this could royally upset them if they're not able to use it.
    When TikTok users move out of their parent’s basements and start to pay taxes from their job, then I’ll pay attention to them. Their opinions right now are irrelevant.
    Funny, a good friend of mine, (who also happens to be in her late 20's) uses TikTok quite a bit. Maybe you haven't used TikTok because it does not "meet your demographic" you would be surprised of the age range on that app. I have seen videos from kids all the way to older parents and everything in-between.
    None of these factors matter. The President is the head of national security (whether anyone here likes that fact or not) and if he sees sufficient reason to ban this app, it’s banned.
    Sure but my point is, if he pisses off the little more than 68% install base who can vote, that could leave Trump without just a little more 25.16 million votes in November. Sure not all of those are die hard TikTok users but he could lose a few million votes because of it. "Don't bite the hand that feeds you!"
    Do you think Trump is going to lose a *couple of million votes* if it got banned? LOL.  
    SpamSandwichcat52watto_cobra
  • Reply 19 of 26
    JinTech said:
    JinTech said:
    JinTech said:
    DAalseth said:
    cat52 said:
    DAalseth said:
    Of course the White House isn't Happy. This whole thing is a political sham. BS to try and win votes by being hard on the Chinese. They want to nurse it out as long as they can get the press to pay attention.

    With everything else going on in 2020, do you really think Trump being hard on TikTok is going to influence the average Joe to vote one way or the other?


    No, but that isn't the issue. Does Trump think it might play well, that's the question.
    You guys are forgetting that a lot of our younger voters use TikTok and this could royally upset them if they're not able to use it.
    When TikTok users move out of their parent’s basements and start to pay taxes from their job, then I’ll pay attention to them. Their opinions right now are irrelevant.
    Funny, a good friend of mine, (who also happens to be in her late 20's) uses TikTok quite a bit. Maybe you haven't used TikTok because it does not "meet your demographic" you would be surprised of the age range on that app. I have seen videos from kids all the way to older parents and everything in-between.
    None of these factors matter. The President is the head of national security (whether anyone here likes that fact or not) and if he sees sufficient reason to ban this app, it’s banned.
    Sure but my point is, if he pisses off the little more than 68% install base who can vote, that could leave Trump without just a little more 25.16 million votes in November. Sure not all of those are die hard TikTok users but he could lose a few million votes because of it. "Don't bite the hand that feeds you!"
    An app that was a Vine ripoff can probably be fairly easily replaced.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 20 of 26
    tmaytmay Posts: 5,730member
    cat52 said:
    avon b7 said:

    You avoid touching on his main point. 

    Lack of any supporting evidence. 

    This is now the de facto US approach to basically anything successful coming out of China. Crush it on so called national security grounds. People are now even mocking that notion by labelling it National Insecurity grounds. 

    The original poster never mentioned lack of supporting evidence by the Trump admin, although I grant you he may very well feel that to be the case.

    Regardless, Europeans are known to be extremely soft on rogue nations, whether the likes of a China or an Iran, so I would be rather surprised if anyone in Europe approves of a hard line against the Chinese.

    Europeans suffer from perpetually anemic economies due to their embrace of socialism, they need all the trade deals they can muster therefore in order to stay afloat, which is why they are quite willing to look the other way when it comes to national security improprieties.

    The US on the other hand has both the economic strength as well as the moral courage to keep countries such as China or Iran in check.  But don't expect any such thing from Brussels.
    In fairness, the EU is starting to come around on Human Rights violations in China. Whether they will chance losing trade with China is the question. My guess is that Germany is starting to see China as impacting its exports/manufacturing base anyway, and has begun to question its trade policy with the authoritarian and mercantile China.

    The UK, on the other hand, has totally fucked themselves on trade, and with just about every potential trading partner, so China may be their only recourse. How does that work with UK's support of Hong Kong's fleeting democracy?

    As for Avon b7's statements on "national security", I'll listen to him once he figures out that National Security policy is based on risk, and doesn't require the the same level of evidence of a criminal trial, ie you don't need a public "smoking gun".

    Read an article today regarding more links of Huawei to Iran sales, this time a shell company that Huawei was connected with in Brazil, which will weight heavily on Meng Wanzhou in her trial, once she has been extradited to the U.S.

    Huawei is a bad actor, especially in surveillance and telecom, and I'm happy that the EU is slowly coming around to limiting Huawei Telecom, based on what the Australia and the U.S. have known for years, and also on Huawei's state aid that undercuts other, trusted vendors like Nokia, Samsung, and Ericsson. 

    I just saw an article that Tik Tok will be banned in the U.S. on Sunday.
    edited September 2020 watto_cobra
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