Rogue Amoeba quits 'restrictive' Mac App Store

AppleInsiderAppleInsider
Posted:
in Mac Software
With its latest update, audio software developer Rogue Amoeba has removed its last Mac App Store app, the Fission editor, saying Apple's service remains "beset with issues."

Rogue Amoeba's Fission audio editor for Mac
Rogue Amoeba's Fission audio editor for Mac


Rogue Amoeba has launched its updated Fission 2.7.1 audio editor for Mac, but at the same time removed it from the Mac App Store. The company's best-known app, Audio Hijack, has never been on the Store, but it has previously also had the audio recorder Piezo available.

The company removed Piezo from the Mac App Store in 2016, and now says that there were issues with Apple's store that were already long unresolved, and have even now yet to be addressed.

"[Despite] despite a decade of feedback from countless developers and users, Apple has made scant few changes and the store remains beset with issues," wrote Paul Kafasis, co-founder and CEO, in a blog post.

"When you couple the many shortcomings and issues with Apple's restrictive polices that preclude most of our software from appearing there," he continued, "the Mac App Store is clearly a poor fit for us."

Fission 2.71, Piezo, Audio Hijack, and more, are now exclusively available on the company's site. Mac App Store users of Fission are being offered a complimentary licence to download the new update from Rogue Amoeba directly.

The company's move comes as, separately, new research suggests that software developers are losing interesting in using the Mac App Store.


Read on AppleInsider
«1

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 32
    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    So they want us to buy untested rubbish so then can alter it as they see fit with every update? No, thanks. Long live sandboxing!
  • Reply 2 of 32
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    Illusive said:
    So they want us to buy untested rubbish so then can alter it as they see fit with every update? No, thanks. Long live sandboxing!
    Untested rubbish?  What is this based on, the blog post didn't mention anything about testing?  Rogue Amoeba are a solid developer with a great track record, and they definitely test their software.  
    dasjettarcfaelijahgauxiomac_dogcharlesatlastokyojimumarklarkdjames4242fastasleep
  • Reply 3 of 32
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,686member
    crowley said:
    Illusive said:
    So they want us to buy untested rubbish so then can alter it as they see fit with every update? No, thanks. Long live sandboxing!
    Untested rubbish?  What is this based on, the blog post didn't mention anything about testing?  Rogue Amoeba are a solid developer with a great track record, and they definitely test their software.  
    He is talking about Apple testing, but that is perfunctory. Just to see if the app works and isn't using private API or breaching privacy. 
    killroywatto_cobra
  • Reply 4 of 32
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    asdasd said:
    crowley said:
    Illusive said:
    So they want us to buy untested rubbish so then can alter it as they see fit with every update? No, thanks. Long live sandboxing!
    Untested rubbish?  What is this based on, the blog post didn't mention anything about testing?  Rogue Amoeba are a solid developer with a great track record, and they definitely test their software.  
    He is talking about Apple testing, but that is perfunctory. Just to see if the app works and isn't using private API or breaching privacy. 
    Developers using unsupported APIs has been problematic for decades. Developers have hooked into macOS without using a supported API to provide some feature or function. macOS gets updated and the user finds out their app has ceased to function because the hook no longer works. Developer is forced to update and/or remove the feature, then rage at Apple. Lather-rinse-repeat. And who does the user blame? “It worked before the update, now it doesn’t, therefore it’s Apple’s fault. Fix it NOW, Apple!”

    In recent years Apple has locked down macOS more and more (kernel extensions, browser extensions, etc.) so we see it less. Developers rage.
    edited September 2021 mark fearingkillroymarklarkMacProuraharajony0
  • Reply 5 of 32
    bshankbshank Posts: 255member
    They were mostly outside of the Mac App Store, if not in it at all anyway
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 32
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    bshank said:
    They were mostly outside of the Mac App Store, if not in it at all anyway
    Yes, I see this article as a prop to support the “developers are leaving the Mac app store” narrative. The drumbeat for killing proprietary app stores is worldwide now. Nice job, AppleInsider.
    killroyMacProwatto_cobraapplguyjony0
  • Reply 7 of 32
    rcfarcfa Posts: 1,124member
    Illusive said:
    So they want us to buy untested rubbish so then can alter it as they see fit with every update? No, thanks. Long live sandboxing!
    Sandboxing is OK for random office software, but it’s useless for almost all utilities.

    For the same reasons an iPad Pro is a joke in name, because anything that carries the restrictions of iPadOS is never “pro”; a iPad that could switch paravirtualizing VM between macOS (with iPad UI in a separate space or running as catalyst apps) when docked with the Magic Keyboard, and iOS-only when undocked, THAT could call itself “pro”.

    But tools for development, data recovery, AV capture/redirection, file management, backup, network management, penetration testing, etc. etc. can’t run properly in a sandbox, and these are the things Pros need and use.
    elijahgtokyojimumarklarkdjames4242
  • Reply 8 of 32
    applefanboynumber1applefanboynumber1 Posts: 10member
    rcfa said:
    Illusive said:
    So they want us to buy untested rubbish so then can alter it as they see fit with every update? No, thanks. Long live sandboxing!
    Sandboxing is OK for random office software, but it’s useless for almost all utilities.

    For the same reasons an iPad Pro is a joke in name, because anything that carries the restrictions of iPadOS is never “pro”; a iPad that could switch paravirtualizing VM between macOS (with iPad UI in a separate space or running as catalyst apps) when docked with the Magic Keyboard, and iOS-only when undocked, THAT could call itself “pro”.

    But tools for development, data recovery, AV capture/redirection, file management, backup, network management, penetration testing, etc. etc. can’t run properly in a sandbox, and these are the things Pros need and use.
    Indeed. And Rogue Amoeba, as reputable as they are, even though I would say their software is high quality, perhaps because it relies on deeper access into core audio, I’ve always found their products a bit unreliable. Fantastic when they work, but drive you nuts when you try to rely on them for say audio production. Moreover, they kind of sell the same product three different ways (audio routing from the menubar, audio routing in fake sound cards, audio routing between apps) and pretty frequently hit you for paid upgrades (I still prefer that to subscriptions I suppose).

    I’ve somewhat given up on them and just use an actual sound card now…
    killroyuraharawatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 9 of 32
    BiggieTallBiggieTall Posts: 17member
    …which relevant and impactful to probably no more than something like 0.001% of Mac users. 
    [Deleted User]uraharawatto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 32
    davgregdavgreg Posts: 1,037member
    The Mac App Store is mostly a waste of time beyond Apple’s own stuff. And Apple’s testing is largel;y a joke considering the things that have been pulled after they were found to violate Apple's own rules.
    Rogue Amoeba is a longtime developer of Mac apps from way back. If they are done with Apple it does mean something and should be listened to.

    edited September 2021 mobirdOferlkruppFileMakerFellermichelb76
  • Reply 11 of 32
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,727member
    lkrupp said:
    asdasd said:
    crowley said:
    Illusive said:
    So they want us to buy untested rubbish so then can alter it as they see fit with every update? No, thanks. Long live sandboxing!
    Untested rubbish?  What is this based on, the blog post didn't mention anything about testing?  Rogue Amoeba are a solid developer with a great track record, and they definitely test their software.  
    He is talking about Apple testing, but that is perfunctory. Just to see if the app works and isn't using private API or breaching privacy. 
    Developers using unsupported APIs has been problematic for decades. Developers have hooked into macOS without using a supported API to provide some feature or function. macOS gets updated and the user finds out their app has ceased to function because the hook no longer works. Developer is forced to update and/or remove the feature, then rage at Apple. Lather-rinse-repeat. And who does the user blame? “It worked before the update, now it doesn’t, therefore it’s Apple’s fault. Fix it NOW, Apple!”

    In recent years Apple has locked down macOS more and more (kernel extensions, browser extensions, etc.) so we see it less. Developers rage.
    I'll give you a counterexample to the argument that no developer ever needs to use unsupported APIs.

    I worked at a company which made wall-mounted touch displays that were used in education.  Since they're used in classes with smaller children (or special needs students), we needed to put the toolbar at the bottom of the window so that children (or people in wheelchairs) could reach it.  There was no way to do this with the standard Mac toolbar.  We could have just created our own toolbar, but we wanted the app to have the standard look and feel of a Mac app (especially since Apple changes it slightly on every new version of MacOS).  We talked to Apple about it, showed them photos, and they actually provided us a private API to do what we needed.

    Sometimes there genuinely are cases where you need to do something which isn't possible with the standard APIs.
    muthuk_vanalingamkillroyFileMakerFellerMacProappleinsideruseruraharawatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 12 of 32
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,727member
    davgreg said:

    Rogue Amoeba is a longtime developer of Mac apps from way back. If they are done with Apple it does mean something and should be listened to.
    And this is why you end up with something completely different from what you started with in the telephone game.

    Rogue Amoeba isn't "done with Apple", they're simply not using the Mac App Store anymore to distribute their Mac apps.  They'll still be developing/updating Mac apps, but distributing them via their own website.
    mark fearingkillroyuraharawatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 13 of 32
    mac_dogmac_dog Posts: 1,069member
    This is a useless article and just someone’s opinion. Where are the facts? What, specifically are the ongoing issues? Complete nonsense—and AppleInsider should be a little more selective in what they post. 
    mark fearingkillroytenthousandthingsMacProurahara
  • Reply 14 of 32
    dws-2dws-2 Posts: 276member
    The App Store was such a good idea, but it just hasn't worked out for a lot of good Apple developers. I no longer buy stuff on the App Store just because I don't want to find out one day that my app is no longer offered there, and have to deal with switching it.
    Ofer
  • Reply 15 of 32
    chadbagchadbag Posts: 2,000member
    I don’t buy a lot of Mac apps.  But when I do I prefer the Mac App Store.    So I don’t have to bother searching elsewhere and don’t have to give my payment info to some random site.    Obviously if there is something I truly need I’ll get it from where ever it is available but I only tend to look in the Mac App Store.    Just me personally.   It claiming that works for everyone else. 
    [Deleted User]watto_cobra
  • Reply 16 of 32
    BeatsBeats Posts: 3,073member
    lkrupp said:
    asdasd said:
    crowley said:
    Illusive said:
    So they want us to buy untested rubbish so then can alter it as they see fit with every update? No, thanks. Long live sandboxing!
    Untested rubbish?  What is this based on, the blog post didn't mention anything about testing?  Rogue Amoeba are a solid developer with a great track record, and they definitely test their software.  
    He is talking about Apple testing, but that is perfunctory. Just to see if the app works and isn't using private API or breaching privacy. 
    Developers using unsupported APIs has been problematic for decades. Developers have hooked into macOS without using a supported API to provide some feature or function. macOS gets updated and the user finds out their app has ceased to function because the hook no longer works. Developer is forced to update and/or remove the feature, then rage at Apple. Lather-rinse-repeat. And who does the user blame? “It worked before the update, now it doesn’t, therefore it’s Apple’s fault. Fix it NOW, Apple!”

    In recent years Apple has locked down macOS more and more (kernel extensions, browser extensions, etc.) so we see it less. Developers rage.

    I really hoped Apple would launch M1Macs with an iOS-style App Store model.
  • Reply 17 of 32
    mark fearingmark fearing Posts: 420member
    lkrupp said:
    asdasd said:
    crowley said:
    Illusive said:
    So they want us to buy untested rubbish so then can alter it as they see fit with every update? No, thanks. Long live sandboxing!
    Untested rubbish?  What is this based on, the blog post didn't mention anything about testing?  Rogue Amoeba are a solid developer with a great track record, and they definitely test their software.  
    He is talking about Apple testing, but that is perfunctory. Just to see if the app works and isn't using private API or breaching privacy. 
    Developers using unsupported APIs has been problematic for decades. Developers have hooked into macOS without using a supported API to provide some feature or function. macOS gets updated and the user finds out their app has ceased to function because the hook no longer works. Developer is forced to update and/or remove the feature, then rage at Apple. Lather-rinse-repeat. And who does the user blame? “It worked before the update, now it doesn’t, therefore it’s Apple’s fault. Fix it NOW, Apple!”

    In recent years Apple has locked down macOS more and more (kernel extensions, browser extensions, etc.) so we see it less. Developers rage.
    Exactly. The Mac App Store is trying to avoid exactly that. Some apps want more access and they do it rather ‘creative’ ways. They have the ability to look for customers outside the store.
  • Reply 18 of 32
    DAalsethDAalseth Posts: 2,783member
    rcfa said:
    Illusive said:
    So they want us to buy untested rubbish so then can alter it as they see fit with every update? No, thanks. Long live sandboxing!
    …
    But tools for development, data recovery, AV capture/redirection, file management, backup, network management, penetration testing, etc. etc. can’t run properly in a sandbox, and these are the things Pros need and use.
    How about SOME Pros. Professional writers, artists, designers, and more don’t need any of that. Indeed I’d argue that MOST pros don’t need any of that. Only programmers, system support, and systems analysts would. 
    [Deleted User]MacProuraharawatto_cobra
  • Reply 19 of 32
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 6,093member
    As a software engineer myself, I have very little sympathy for those that don't have the skills (or motivation) to make their apps compliant.  Many use unsupported API's that can and will cause problems down the road and don't want to take the time and effort to properly code their app to make it App Store compliant.  It's their way, or the highway.

    I always check the Mac store first when I'm interested in new software.  Sadly it is thinning out and Apple as well does share some blame for that, but not much.  The real money is in the iOS App Store and that's where Apple is putting most of its resources, which is actually a sad thing to see.
    [Deleted User]roundaboutnowkillroyMacProwatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 20 of 32
    killroykillroy Posts: 276member
    Beats said:
    lkrupp said:
    asdasd said:
    crowley said:
    Illusive said:
    So they want us to buy untested rubbish so then can alter it as they see fit with every update? No, thanks. Long live sandboxing!
    Untested rubbish?  What is this based on, the blog post didn't mention anything about testing?  Rogue Amoeba are a solid developer with a great track record, and they definitely test their software.  
    He is talking about Apple testing, but that is perfunctory. Just to see if the app works and isn't using private API or breaching privacy. 
    Developers using unsupported APIs has been problematic for decades. Developers have hooked into macOS without using a supported API to provide some feature or function. macOS gets updated and the user finds out their app has ceased to function because the hook no longer works. Developer is forced to update and/or remove the feature, then rage at Apple. Lather-rinse-repeat. And who does the user blame? “It worked before the update, now it doesn’t, therefore it’s Apple’s fault. Fix it NOW, Apple!”

    In recent years Apple has locked down macOS more and more (kernel extensions, browser extensions, etc.) so we see it less. Developers rage.

    I really hoped Apple would launch M1Macs with an iOS-style App Store model.

    I'd be surprised if Apps like Adobe, Avid, Cinema 4-D would be in any Apple App store.
    edited September 2021
Sign In or Register to comment.