Apple won't make a touch-screen MacBook Pro, but will improve third-party repairs

AppleInsider · October 29, 2021 3:39PM

Apple executives explain how the new MacBook Pro designs came about because of pro user feedback -- and how the company needs to do more work as it pertains to improving third-party repair access.

The new MacBook Pro

As the new 14-inch and redesigned 16-inch MacBook Pro begin arriving for customers -- or sometimes not -- Apple executives have been promoting their new features.

Talking to Joanna Stern of the Wall Street Journal, Apple vice president of Mac and iPad Product Marketing. Tom Boger, said that the new designs come from focusing on what most users need.

"We're constantly listening to our customers," he said, "and with this new lineup of MacBook Pros we decided to make some changes as we do a lot on the Mac."

Boger also admitted that in order to provide what hardware features were being asked for, "the 16-inch MacBook got a little bit thicker, a little bit heavier."

Despite Boger being in charge of both Mac and iPad product marketing, Apple does not plan to make a hybrid device. According to John Ternus, Apple senior vice president of hardware engineering, that means the company won't add a touch screen to the MacBook Pro.

"We make the world's best touch computer on an iPad," he told Stern. "It's totally optimized for that. And the Mac is totally optimized for indirect input. We haven't really felt a reason to change that."

Stern also questioned the pair about the difficulties of getting third-party repairs. Boger admitted that Apple has to "do work in that space."

She also pointed out that with these models answering most user requests of the last several years, there are now going to be more of them. Stern proposed a water-resistant laptop.

"That hasn't been on many people's lists," said Boger, concluding the interview.

Read on AppleInsider

shareef777 · October 29, 2021 4:37PM

Offer MacOS Monterey on an iPad and you’re done. Should be relatively painless considering Monterey runs natively on M1 silicone, and would give people the opportunity to determine how useful/useless a full blown desktop OS is with a touchscreen.

From there you can determine if enough people leveraged Monterey on iPads to see if a touchscreen is really wanted for a MacBook.

cpsro · October 29, 2021 4:39PM

The new MBPs would've been better without the card reader (and with a 4th TB port).

shareef777 · October 29, 2021 5:33PM

cpsro said:

The new MBPs would've been better without the card reader (and with a 4th TB port).

Agreed. And honestly after going TB only for 5 years, might as well have stuck with it.

tenapplesupontop · October 29, 2021 6:02PM

Apple's right. If you want touchscreen use iPad. MacBook Pro doesn't need it.

macswithpenguins · October 29, 2021 6:50PM

Shareef777 I do not agree that MacOS on iPad is a good idea at all. It is completely designed for mouse input in almost every regard. Since Big Sur, it has changed somewhat, though.

I use a lot of remote desktop from iPad to my M1 Mac. It works "OK" (except for different amounts of lag when done wirelessly between rooms and walls), but there are a few issues: I got a 6th-gen 9.7" iPad. The screen size is too small to view the complete desktop at once – it's tiny. If I zoom in a bit, things work okay. However, the tiny buttons to minimize, maximize and close are extremely hard targets to hit with a finger.

On the other hand, you'll notice right away that Windows 10 is no problem to use on a 9.7" (and even better with 12.9" I presume). Much of that is how easy it is to access the window buttons. It's made for touch, albeit more like a hybrid mouse/touch OS.

macswithpenguins · October 29, 2021 7:00PM

If Apple ever (and I highly doubt it) made MacOS available for the iPad, it would be MacOS apps that ran virtualized in forced full screen, available as app shortcuts on the home screen. They would never expose the complete OS with all window controls, Finder, etc.

entropys · October 29, 2021 8:55PM

MacsWithPenguins said:

Shareef777 I do not agree that MacOS on iPad is a good idea at all. It is completely designed for mouse input in almost every regard. Since Big Sur, it has changed somewhat, though.

I use a lot of remote desktop from iPad to my M1 Mac. It works "OK" (except for different amounts of lag when done wirelessly between rooms and walls), but there are a few issues: I got a 6th-gen 9.7" iPad. The screen size is too small to view the complete desktop at once – it's tiny. If I zoom in a bit, things work okay. However, the tiny buttons to minimize, maximize and close are extremely hard targets to hit with a finger.

On the other hand, you'll notice right away that Windows 10 is no problem to use on a 9.7" (and even better with 12.9" I presume). Much of that is how easy it is to access the window buttons. It's made for touch, albeit more like a hybrid mouse/touch OS.

What happens when you get to all the apps after remoting into win10 though, is they are not optimised for touch. And it isn’t easy, even on my larger 10.5 inch IPP. It is also BTW, why I gave up on Surface. The iPad and its large suite of touch designed apps just work better for touch. I haven’t remotely accessed MacOS that way, but expect it is the same as you say.

edited October 2021

entropys · October 29, 2021 9:00PM

MacsWithPenguins said:

If Apple ever (and I highly doubt it) made MacOS available for the iPad, it would be MacOS apps that ran virtualized in forced full screen, available as app shortcuts on the home screen. They would never expose the complete OS with all window controls, Finder, etc.

Exactly. What people want when advocating MacOS on iPad is the proper file management in finder, and system preferences for managing peripherals, behaviours and the like. It is what holds the iPad back.
why not just fix that in iPadOS?

edited October 2021

entropys · October 29, 2021 9:08PM

Regarding a touchscreen on a Mac, it is my observation that touchscreens on windows laptops only get used for scrolling in a window. Not much else.
And they are pretty useless when connected to a display and the lid is closed.

I reckon I have used touch on the touchscreen on my HP dragonfly about five times in the last twelve months. For scrolling ‘natch.

edited October 2021

mariowinco · October 29, 2021 10:27PM

My son is 7. Uses iPhone-iPad since he was a toddler.

He “naturally” touches the screens he wants to interact with.

Now he’s learning programming on the iPad Pro and I plan to subtlety put a reachable mouse to see how it goes.

I know that the sample is small, but it seems to me that “non touch screens” are “legacy” and once Apple bridges OSX properly into a touch screen these discussions we see about “should be this or that way” will cease a bit

georgebmac · October 30, 2021 1:01PM

AppleInsider said:

Apple executives explain how the new MacBook Pro designs came about because of pro user feedback -- and how the company needs to do more work as it pertains to improving third-party repair access.

The new MacBook Pro

As the new 14-inch and redesigned 16-inch MacBook Pro begin arriving for customers -- or sometimes not -- Apple executives have been promoting their new features.

Talking to Joanna Stern of the Wall Street Journal, Apple vice president of Mac and iPad Product Marketing. Tom Boger, said that the new designs come from focusing on what most users need.

"We're constantly listening to our customers," he said, "and with this new lineup of MacBook Pros we decided to make some changes as we do a lot on the Mac."

Boger also admitted that in order to provide what hardware features were being asked for, "the 16-inch MacBook got a little bit thicker, a little bit heavier."

Despite Boger being in charge of both Mac and iPad product marketing, Apple does not plan to make a hybrid device. According to John Ternus, Apple senior vice president of hardware engineering, that means the company won't add a touch screen to the MacBook Pro.

"We make the world's best touch computer on an iPad," he told Stern. "It's totally optimized for that. And the Mac is totally optimized for indirect input. We haven't really felt a reason to change that."

Stern also questioned the pair about the difficulties of getting third-party repairs. Boger admitted that Apple has to "do work in that space."

She also pointed out that with these models answering most user requests of the last several years, there are now going to be more of them. Stern proposed a water-resistant laptop.

"That hasn't been on many people's lists," said Boger, concluding the interview.

Read on AppleInsider

So, Apple wants us to buy 2 devices when one would do both jobs -- that's been proven every time a person buys a two in one.

That's a good business decision -- stock holders will be happy.

Customers -- well, screw them.

georgebmac · October 30, 2021 1:11PM

entropys said:

Regarding a touchscreen on a Mac, it is my observation that touchscreens on windows laptops only get used for scrolling in a window. Not much else.
And they are pretty useless when connected to a display and the lid is closed.

I reckon I have used touch on the touchscreen on my HP dragonfly about five times in the last twelve months. For scrolling ‘natch.

Have you tried solving an algebraic formula without a touch screen?
Or, drawing a graph?

Or, marking up a paper?

Or, signing a document?

It's somewhere between a pain in the ass and impossible.

I see no rational explanation for limiting the functionality of MacBooks -- except it helps Apple's bottom line when their customers spend twice as much buying two devices when one should have been able to meet all their needs.

Perhaps GM should try that approach:
Start making cars without trunks -- so if you want to carry something you have to buy a pick up too.

hammeroftruth · October 30, 2021 3:33PM

GeorgeBMac said:

entropys said:

Regarding a touchscreen on a Mac, it is my observation that touchscreens on windows laptops only get used for scrolling in a window. Not much else.
And they are pretty useless when connected to a display and the lid is closed.

I reckon I have used touch on the touchscreen on my HP dragonfly about five times in the last twelve months. For scrolling ‘natch.

Have you tried solving an algebraic formula without a touch screen?
Or, drawing a graph?
Or, marking up a paper?
Or, signing a document?

It's somewhere between a pain in the ass and impossible.

I see no rational explanation for limiting the functionality of MacBooks -- except it helps Apple's bottom line when their customers spend twice as much buying two devices when one should have been able to meet all their needs.

Perhaps GM should try that approach:
Start making cars without trunks -- so if you want to carry something you have to buy a pick up too.

All of those examples have been done for over 30 years without too much difficulty. If this was such a real problem then why aren’t touchscreens on every PC laptop?

tmay · October 30, 2021 4:30PM

GeorgeBMac said:

AppleInsider said:

Apple executives explain how the new MacBook Pro designs came about because of pro user feedback -- and how the company needs to do more work as it pertains to improving third-party repair access.

The new MacBook Pro

As the new 14-inch and redesigned 16-inch MacBook Pro begin arriving for customers -- or sometimes not -- Apple executives have been promoting their new features.

Talking to Joanna Stern of the Wall Street Journal, Apple vice president of Mac and iPad Product Marketing. Tom Boger, said that the new designs come from focusing on what most users need.

"We're constantly listening to our customers," he said, "and with this new lineup of MacBook Pros we decided to make some changes as we do a lot on the Mac."

Boger also admitted that in order to provide what hardware features were being asked for, "the 16-inch MacBook got a little bit thicker, a little bit heavier."

Despite Boger being in charge of both Mac and iPad product marketing, Apple does not plan to make a hybrid device. According to John Ternus, Apple senior vice president of hardware engineering, that means the company won't add a touch screen to the MacBook Pro.

"We make the world's best touch computer on an iPad," he told Stern. "It's totally optimized for that. And the Mac is totally optimized for indirect input. We haven't really felt a reason to change that."

Stern also questioned the pair about the difficulties of getting third-party repairs. Boger admitted that Apple has to "do work in that space."

She also pointed out that with these models answering most user requests of the last several years, there are now going to be more of them. Stern proposed a water-resistant laptop.

"That hasn't been on many people's lists," said Boger, concluding the interview.

Read on AppleInsider

So, Apple wants us to buy 2 devices when one would do both jobs -- that's been proven every time a person buys a two in one.

That's a good business decision -- stock holders will be happy.
Customers -- well, screw them.

Funny, but MS isn't having much luck with Surface sales.

Maybe you could help them out by buying one of their Surface devices, given that you have been whinging about Apple's lack of 2 in 1's since you have been posting, and also given that Apple has deprecated x86.

Give it to your Grandson for his "homework". I'm sure he'll be so excited.

Time to move on.

edited October 2021

doozydozen · October 30, 2021 8:18PM

GeorgeBMac said:

AppleInsider said:

Apple executives explain how the new MacBook Pro designs came about because of pro user feedback -- and how the company needs to do more work as it pertains to improving third-party repair access.

The new MacBook Pro

As the new 14-inch and redesigned 16-inch MacBook Pro begin arriving for customers -- or sometimes not -- Apple executives have been promoting their new features.

Talking to Joanna Stern of the Wall Street Journal, Apple vice president of Mac and iPad Product Marketing. Tom Boger, said that the new designs come from focusing on what most users need.

"We're constantly listening to our customers," he said, "and with this new lineup of MacBook Pros we decided to make some changes as we do a lot on the Mac."

Boger also admitted that in order to provide what hardware features were being asked for, "the 16-inch MacBook got a little bit thicker, a little bit heavier."

Despite Boger being in charge of both Mac and iPad product marketing, Apple does not plan to make a hybrid device. According to John Ternus, Apple senior vice president of hardware engineering, that means the company won't add a touch screen to the MacBook Pro.

"We make the world's best touch computer on an iPad," he told Stern. "It's totally optimized for that. And the Mac is totally optimized for indirect input. We haven't really felt a reason to change that."

Stern also questioned the pair about the difficulties of getting third-party repairs. Boger admitted that Apple has to "do work in that space."

She also pointed out that with these models answering most user requests of the last several years, there are now going to be more of them. Stern proposed a water-resistant laptop.

"That hasn't been on many people's lists," said Boger, concluding the interview.

Read on AppleInsider

So, Apple wants us to buy 2 devices when one would do both jobs -- that's been proven every time a person buys a two in one.

That's a good business decision -- stock holders will be happy.
Customers -- well, screw them.

Yeah, because added a touch screen to a $2K base model 14in MBP won’t significantly impact its price. Get out of here with that nonsense.

carisma · October 31, 2021 7:56AM

I think Apple won't make a MacOS computer without MacOS being fully touch because that would give de user a bad UX. Apple won't go for partial touch because that would cause a lot of criticism for 'a bad implementation of touch for MacOS'. I just think they haven't figured out how they can make a hybrid MacOS to their standards. If and when it comes it should be 'Apple perfect, whatever that may be'

georgebmac · October 31, 2021 11:49AM

tmay said:

GeorgeBMac said:

AppleInsider said:

Apple executives explain how the new MacBook Pro designs came about because of pro user feedback -- and how the company needs to do more work as it pertains to improving third-party repair access.

The new MacBook Pro

As the new 14-inch and redesigned 16-inch MacBook Pro begin arriving for customers -- or sometimes not -- Apple executives have been promoting their new features.

Talking to Joanna Stern of the Wall Street Journal, Apple vice president of Mac and iPad Product Marketing. Tom Boger, said that the new designs come from focusing on what most users need.

"We're constantly listening to our customers," he said, "and with this new lineup of MacBook Pros we decided to make some changes as we do a lot on the Mac."

Boger also admitted that in order to provide what hardware features were being asked for, "the 16-inch MacBook got a little bit thicker, a little bit heavier."

Despite Boger being in charge of both Mac and iPad product marketing, Apple does not plan to make a hybrid device. According to John Ternus, Apple senior vice president of hardware engineering, that means the company won't add a touch screen to the MacBook Pro.

"We make the world's best touch computer on an iPad," he told Stern. "It's totally optimized for that. And the Mac is totally optimized for indirect input. We haven't really felt a reason to change that."

Stern also questioned the pair about the difficulties of getting third-party repairs. Boger admitted that Apple has to "do work in that space."

She also pointed out that with these models answering most user requests of the last several years, there are now going to be more of them. Stern proposed a water-resistant laptop.

"That hasn't been on many people's lists," said Boger, concluding the interview.

Read on AppleInsider

So, Apple wants us to buy 2 devices when one would do both jobs -- that's been proven every time a person buys a two in one.

That's a good business decision -- stock holders will be happy.
Customers -- well, screw them.

Funny, but MS isn't having much luck with Surface sales.

Maybe you could help them out by buying one of their Surface devices, given that you have been whinging about Apple's lack of 2 in 1's since you have been posting, and also given that Apple has deprecated x86.

Give it to your Grandson for his "homework". I'm sure he'll be so excited.

Time to move on.

LOL... So you think Microsoft is the only company selling 2 in 1's? Really?

georgebmac · October 31, 2021 12:17PM

repressthis said:

GeorgeBMac said:

AppleInsider said:

Apple executives explain how the new MacBook Pro designs came about because of pro user feedback -- and how the company needs to do more work as it pertains to improving third-party repair access.

The new MacBook Pro

As the new 14-inch and redesigned 16-inch MacBook Pro begin arriving for customers -- or sometimes not -- Apple executives have been promoting their new features.

Talking to Joanna Stern of the Wall Street Journal, Apple vice president of Mac and iPad Product Marketing. Tom Boger, said that the new designs come from focusing on what most users need.

"We're constantly listening to our customers," he said, "and with this new lineup of MacBook Pros we decided to make some changes as we do a lot on the Mac."

Boger also admitted that in order to provide what hardware features were being asked for, "the 16-inch MacBook got a little bit thicker, a little bit heavier."

Despite Boger being in charge of both Mac and iPad product marketing, Apple does not plan to make a hybrid device. According to John Ternus, Apple senior vice president of hardware engineering, that means the company won't add a touch screen to the MacBook Pro.

"We make the world's best touch computer on an iPad," he told Stern. "It's totally optimized for that. And the Mac is totally optimized for indirect input. We haven't really felt a reason to change that."

Stern also questioned the pair about the difficulties of getting third-party repairs. Boger admitted that Apple has to "do work in that space."

She also pointed out that with these models answering most user requests of the last several years, there are now going to be more of them. Stern proposed a water-resistant laptop.

"That hasn't been on many people's lists," said Boger, concluding the interview.

Read on AppleInsider

So, Apple wants us to buy 2 devices when one would do both jobs -- that's been proven every time a person buys a two in one.

That's a good business decision -- stock holders will be happy.
Customers -- well, screw them.

Yeah, because added a touch screen to a $2K base model 14in MBP won’t significantly impact its price. Get out of here with that nonsense.

I see Dell selling a 15.6" touch screen for $699. So, No.

georgebmac · October 31, 2021 12:24PM

carisma said:

I think Apple won't make a MacOS computer without MacOS being fully touch because that would give de user a bad UX. Apple won't go for partial touch because that would cause a lot of criticism for 'a bad implementation of touch for MacOS'. I just think they haven't figured out how they can make a hybrid MacOS to their standards. If and when it comes it should be 'Apple perfect, whatever that may be'

Yes, that ^^^ (*)

Plus, back in the days of Ive's purity tests, they convinced themselves and publicly announced that using a touchscreen on a laptop was ergonomically bad -- so they created the touchbar to take its place.

We, and they, have moved on from those errors. The Touchbar is gone and millions are using touchscreens on a regular basis to do work that could not otherwise be done on a non-touch screen laptop.

Apple corrected a lot of its past errors (dropping Magsafe, adding HDMI, etc) with this new machine.

It's time they corrected this error as well.

---------------------------------------------

* Footnote (after thought): Yes, Apple needs to do it right. But yet, after years of dragging their feet, they announced a rather half-assed implementation of a cursor to the iPad. They must have realized that because, at least initially, they tried to hide it under the guise of an "accessibility" feature. But, the key point is: they eventually relented to the reality of the situation.

edited October 2021

aijws · October 31, 2021 1:45PM

Why not make an iPad ProArt with a 16, 18 or 21 Inch Screen, using the ProMax?
And, get Adobe to Finally Support Full Versions of the CC on iPad?

Apple won't make a touch-screen MacBook Pro, but will improve third-party repairs

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