DJI among 8 Chinese groups heading onto U.S. investment blacklist

Posted:
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Drone maker DJI is to be added alongside seven other Chinese companies to an investment blacklist by the U.S. Treasury, due to allegedly being involved in surveillance of Uyghur Muslims in China.




Under the direction of the Biden administration, a group of eight companies based in China will be added to the Treasury's "Chinese military-industrial complex companies" blacklist on Thursday, it is claimed. The measure will effectively prevent U.S. investors from investing in the companies, alongside the existing 60 Chinese firms that already exist on the blacklist.

Two people familiar with the matter say that DJI will be added to the list, as well as Megvii and supercomputer manufacturer Dawning Information Industry, reports the Financial Times. It is plausible that DJI's inclusion is due to providing drones for surveillance efforts, which allegedly includes surveilling detention centers in the Xinjiang region.

Facial recognition firm CloudWalk Technology, cybersecurity firm Xiamen Meiya Pico, Ai company Yitu Technology, cloud computing service Leon Technology, and surveillance system producer NetPosa will also be added to the same blacklist.

The new additions are a continuation of measures by the U.S. government against companies aiding China with its repression of Uyghur Muslims and other minorities. The group is already on the "entity list" operated by the Commerce Department, barring U.S. firms from exporting to the firms without first acquiring a government license.

The Commerce Department is also thought to be adding a further 16 groups to the entity list on Thursday.

It is unclear how much of an impact the ban will have on DJI's sales in the United States, as it concerns investments rather than a ban on products. Apple is a retailer of DJI hardware, including its $799 Mavic Air 2 drone.

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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 103
    Investment ban, but not banning import of their products seems a bit of a half measure or more of a symbolic gesture to me. 
    ravnorodomwatto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 103
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 17,926member
    I'm an Air 2s owner (pictured drone), though it's for recreational purposes (meaning I have no financial interest in this).  Having said that, this ban is pointless political theater.  DJI drones are used to surveil Uyghurs? Shocker.  I wonder if they will ban investment in the companies that make street surveillance cameras? The fact is that the U.S. government has been saber rattling with DJI for some time, even back to the previous administration.  The line has been that they are worried about CCP espionage as the drones could "send information to China."   That apparently didn't have legs, so now it's about the drones being used to oppress Uyghurs.  I'm sure that will get the CCP to change its ways.  I see we're still competing in the Olympics, though...

    By the way, for anyone in the market, spend the extra $200 and get the Air 2s instead of the Air 2.  The camera is far superior and the range is better.  I have the 2s with smart controller and several batteries.  Highly recommended.   


    waveparticlemuthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 103
    sdw2001 said:
    I'm an Air 2s owner (pictured drone), though it's for recreational purposes (meaning I have no financial interest in this).  Having said that, this ban is pointless political theater.  DJI drones are used to surveil Uyghurs? Shocker.  I wonder if they will ban investment in the companies that make street surveillance cameras? The fact is that the U.S. government has been saber rattling with DJI for some time, even back to the previous administration.  The line has been that they are worried about CCP espionage as the drones could "send information to China."   That apparently didn't have legs, so now it's about the drones being used to oppress Uyghurs.  I'm sure that will get the CCP to change its ways.  I see we're still competing in the Olympics, though...

    By the way, for anyone in the market, spend the extra $200 and get the Air 2s instead of the Air 2.  The camera is far superior and the range is better.  I have the 2s with smart controller and several batteries.  Highly recommended.   


    It seems you sort of missed the main point of the ban.  It's not because DJI drones are being used to surveil people like street cameras do, it's because they are being used to surveil a particular group of people who are being repressed in detention centers and labor camps because of their religion.  See the difference?
    viclauyyc
  • Reply 4 of 103
    sdw2001 said:
    I'm an Air 2s owner (pictured drone), though it's for recreational purposes (meaning I have no financial interest in this).  Having said that, this ban is pointless political theater.  DJI drones are used to surveil Uyghurs? Shocker.  I wonder if they will ban investment in the companies that make street surveillance cameras? The fact is that the U.S. government has been saber rattling with DJI for some time, even back to the previous administration.  The line has been that they are worried about CCP espionage as the drones could "send information to China."   That apparently didn't have legs, so now it's about the drones being used to oppress Uyghurs.  I'm sure that will get the CCP to change its ways.  I see we're still competing in the Olympics, though...

    By the way, for anyone in the market, spend the extra $200 and get the Air 2s instead of the Air 2.  The camera is far superior and the range is better.  I have the 2s with smart controller and several batteries.  Highly recommended.   


    US media has used helicopters as surveillance for years.  B)
  • Reply 5 of 103
    mac_dogmac_dog Posts: 1,021member
    And turn a blind eye to the atrocities in Palestine. Hypocrisy at its finest. 
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 6 of 103
    ITGUYINSD said:
    sdw2001 said:
    I'm an Air 2s owner (pictured drone), though it's for recreational purposes (meaning I have no financial interest in this).  Having said that, this ban is pointless political theater.  DJI drones are used to surveil Uyghurs? Shocker.  I wonder if they will ban investment in the companies that make street surveillance cameras? The fact is that the U.S. government has been saber rattling with DJI for some time, even back to the previous administration.  The line has been that they are worried about CCP espionage as the drones could "send information to China."   That apparently didn't have legs, so now it's about the drones being used to oppress Uyghurs.  I'm sure that will get the CCP to change its ways.  I see we're still competing in the Olympics, though...

    By the way, for anyone in the market, spend the extra $200 and get the Air 2s instead of the Air 2.  The camera is far superior and the range is better.  I have the 2s with smart controller and several batteries.  Highly recommended.   


    It seems you sort of missed the main point of the ban.  It's not because DJI drones are being used to surveil people like street cameras do, it's because they are being used to surveil a particular group of people who are being repressed in detention centers and labor camps because of their religion.  See the difference?
    There are over ten million Xinjiang Uyghurs. And Xinjiang has an area bigger than California. How China is able to survey this particular group of people? Did US military use drones to survey Taliban in Afghanistan? If it did, how could US lost the war? 
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 7 of 103
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    ITGUYINSD said:
    sdw2001 said:
    I'm an Air 2s owner (pictured drone), though it's for recreational purposes (meaning I have no financial interest in this).  Having said that, this ban is pointless political theater.  DJI drones are used to surveil Uyghurs? Shocker.  I wonder if they will ban investment in the companies that make street surveillance cameras? The fact is that the U.S. government has been saber rattling with DJI for some time, even back to the previous administration.  The line has been that they are worried about CCP espionage as the drones could "send information to China."   That apparently didn't have legs, so now it's about the drones being used to oppress Uyghurs.  I'm sure that will get the CCP to change its ways.  I see we're still competing in the Olympics, though...

    By the way, for anyone in the market, spend the extra $200 and get the Air 2s instead of the Air 2.  The camera is far superior and the range is better.  I have the 2s with smart controller and several batteries.  Highly recommended.   


    It seems you sort of missed the main point of the ban.  It's not because DJI drones are being used to surveil people like street cameras do, it's because they are being used to surveil a particular group of people who are being repressed in detention centers and labor camps because of their religion.  See the difference?
    There are over ten million Xinjiang Uyghurs. And Xinjiang has an area bigger than California. How China is able to survey this particular group of people? Did US military use drones to survey Taliban in Afghanistan? If it did, how could US lost the war? 

    We DID!  That's how we found those those little kids and blew them up -- with our drones...
    "Ooops!  Sorry!   My mistake!  They looked like bad guys"
    edited December 2021 viclauyyc
  • Reply 8 of 103
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,500member
    It's definitely a wavky move and doesn't make a lot of sense. But then again, there is little sense on the entity list.

    US drones have been used in sovereign states for what basically amounts to summary executions.

    Drones that were designed to kill. Other drones are designed for reconnaissance.

    DJI also makes drones. Even if it wanted to, I doubt they could stop them from being used for  certain purposes.

    But these look like mere allegations. Not even hard evidence. 


    muthuk_vanalingamGeorgeBMac
  • Reply 9 of 103
    avon b7 said:
    It's definitely a wavky move and doesn't make a lot of sense. But then again, there is little sense on the entity list.

    US drones have been used in sovereign states for what basically amounts to summary executions.

    Drones that were designed to kill. Other drones are designed for reconnaissance.

    DJI also makes drones. Even if it wanted to, I doubt they could stop them from being used for  certain purposes.

    But these look like mere allegations. Not even hard evidence. 


    US government is drawing China as a target and keeps throwing darts at it. It hopes it can hit the red eye with one target. 
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 10 of 103
    tmaytmay Posts: 5,824member
    avon b7 said:
    It's definitely a wavky move and doesn't make a lot of sense. But then again, there is little sense on the entity list.

    US drones have been used in sovereign states for what basically amounts to summary executions.

    Drones that were designed to kill. Other drones are designed for reconnaissance.

    DJI also makes drones. Even if it wanted to, I doubt they could stop them from being used for  certain purposes.

    But these look like mere allegations. Not even hard evidence. 


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/12/14/huawei-surveillance-china/

    https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/14/22834860/huawei-leaked-documents-xinjiang-region-uyghur-facial-recognition-prisons-surveillance

    Hard evidence...
    viclauyycwatto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 103
    Fun fact about China.

    In 2018, a famous Hong Kong singer, Jacky Cheung, had a concert tour in China. Chinese police managed to captured few dozen of fugitives after the show with facial recognition and AI. And China has population of 1.3B people. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 103
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    avon b7 said:
    It's definitely a wavky move and doesn't make a lot of sense. But then again, there is little sense on the entity list.

    US drones have been used in sovereign states for what basically amounts to summary executions.

    Drones that were designed to kill. Other drones are designed for reconnaissance.

    DJI also makes drones. Even if it wanted to, I doubt they could stop them from being used for  certain purposes.

    But these look like mere allegations. Not even hard evidence. 


    US government is drawing China as a target and keeps throwing darts at it. It hopes it can hit the red eye with one target. 

    Yes, the U.S. " is drawing China as a target and keeps throwing darts at it" -- but not in hopes that one will stick.  They adopted the FauxNews/Right Wing media method of repeating an allegation over and over then getting others to repeat it.  Then, once their target audience starts assuming the lie is true they start building their house of cards of multiple lies on top of the original lie (which is usually some form of "This is the bad guy").   It's the new, modern method of brain washing the masses.

    But its also important to realize that every one of the lies has some tiny grain of truth in it so they can claim its "factual".   It's still a lie.  But they use that tiny grain of truth because they're too smart to get caught speaking a complete falsehood containing not even a grain of truth -- because they would then have no means to fall back on their standard outrage when accused of lying.

    It's a very effective weapon in their propaganda wars that the world has not yet developed an effective counter strategy against and instead typically falls back on arguing against the false claims -- which only gives them more media coverage -- at which point the lies become stronger and their target more confused.

    China has started pushing back against it -- calling bull to the bull.  That pisses off the liars to no end.  But shining the light of truth is the only real defense against lies, slanders and defamations.
    waveparticle
  • Reply 13 of 103
    tmaytmay Posts: 5,824member
    avon b7 said:
    It's definitely a wavky move and doesn't make a lot of sense. But then again, there is little sense on the entity list.

    US drones have been used in sovereign states for what basically amounts to summary executions.

    Drones that were designed to kill. Other drones are designed for reconnaissance.

    DJI also makes drones. Even if it wanted to, I doubt they could stop them from being used for  certain purposes.

    But these look like mere allegations. Not even hard evidence. 


    US government is drawing China as a target and keeps throwing darts at it. It hopes it can hit the red eye with one target. 

    Yes, the U.S. " is drawing China as a target and keeps throwing darts at it" -- but not in hopes that one will stick.  They adopted the FauxNews/Right Wing media method of repeating an allegation over and over then getting others to repeat it.  Then, once their target audience starts assuming the lie is true they start building their house of cards of multiple lies on top of the original lie (which is usually some form of "This is the bad guy").   It's the new, modern method of brain washing the masses.

    But its also important to realize that every one of the lies has some tiny grain of truth in it so they can claim its "factual".   It's still a lie.  But they use that tiny grain of truth because they're too smart to get caught speaking a complete falsehood containing not even a grain of truth -- because they would then have no means to fall back on their standard outrage when accused of lying.

    It's a very effective weapon in their propaganda wars that the world has not yet developed an effective counter strategy against and instead typically falls back on arguing against the false claims -- which only gives them more media coverage -- at which point the lies become stronger and their target more confused.

    China has started pushing back against it -- calling bull to the bull.  That pisses off the liars to no end.  But shining the light of truth is the only real defense against lies, slanders and defamations.
    You make me laugh.

    The entire Western World is getting tired of China's attempt to change the rules of order to allow the PRC's brand of "authoritarianism".

    https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2021/06/30/large-majorities-say-china-does-not-respect-the-personal-freedoms-of-its-people/

    So, no, not just the right wing fascists, but most everyone.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 103
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,500member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    It's definitely a wavky move and doesn't make a lot of sense. But then again, there is little sense on the entity list.

    US drones have been used in sovereign states for what basically amounts to summary executions. Have

    Drones that were designed to kill. Other drones are designed for reconnaissance.

    DJI also makes drones. Even if it wanted to, I doubt they could stop them from being used for  certain purposes.

    But these look like mere allegations. Not even hard evidence. 


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/12/14/huawei-surveillance-china/

    https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/14/22834860/huawei-leaked-documents-xinjiang-region-uyghur-facial-recognition-prisons-surveillance

    Hard evidence...
    That's hard nonsense! And has nothing to do with DJI!

    Advanced Facial recognition can be used to identify people by ethnicity. Any company worth its salt in the field can do it And the characteristic is a tentpole feature of companies that develop it.

    What purchasers do with the technology has little to do with the company that created it.

    Btw, Huawei is also developing facial recognition for pigs. I suppose pig privacy advocates will be up in arms if they get wind of that!
    muthuk_vanalingamGeorgeBMac
  • Reply 15 of 103
    tmaytmay Posts: 5,824member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    It's definitely a wavky move and doesn't make a lot of sense. But then again, there is little sense on the entity list.

    US drones have been used in sovereign states for what basically amounts to summary executions. Have

    Drones that were designed to kill. Other drones are designed for reconnaissance.

    DJI also makes drones. Even if it wanted to, I doubt they could stop them from being used for  certain purposes.

    But these look like mere allegations. Not even hard evidence. 


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/12/14/huawei-surveillance-china/

    https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/14/22834860/huawei-leaked-documents-xinjiang-region-uyghur-facial-recognition-prisons-surveillance

    Hard evidence...
    That's hard nonsense! And has nothing to do with DJI!

    Advanced Facial recognition can be used to identify people by ethnicity. Any company worth its salt in the field can do it And the characteristic is a tentpole feature of companies that develop it.

    What purchasers do with the technology has little to do with the company that created it.

    Btw, Huawei is also developing facial recognition for pigs. I suppose pig privacy advocates will be up in arms if they get wind of that!
    So, you agree that the PRC is a human rights violator when surveillance is targeted at minorities (94% of China's population is ethnic Han), and the Huawei is deeply involved.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/29/leaked-papers-link-xinjiang-crackdown-with-china-leadership

    watto_cobra
  • Reply 16 of 103
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,500member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    It's definitely a wavky move and doesn't make a lot of sense. But then again, there is little sense on the entity list.
    You
    US drones have been used in sovereign states for what basically amounts to summary executions. Have

    Drones that were designed to kill. Other drones are designed for reconnaissance.

    DJI also makes drones. Even if it wanted to, I doubt they could stop them from being used for  certain purposes.

    But these look like mere allegations. Not even hard evidence. 


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/12/14/huawei-surveillance-china/

    https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/14/22834860/huawei-leaked-documents-xinjiang-region-uyghur-facial-recognition-prisons-surveillance

    Hard evidence...
    That's hard nonsense! And has nothing to do with DJI!

    Advanced Facial recognition can be used to identify people by ethnicity. Any company worth its salt in the field can do it And the characteristic is a tentpole feature of companies that develop it.

    What purchasers do with the technology has little to do with the company that created it.

    Btw, Huawei is also developing facial recognition for pigs. I suppose pig privacy advocates will be up in arms if they get wind of that!
    So, you agree that the PRC is a human rights violator when surveillance is targeted at minorities (94% of China's population is ethnic Han), and the Huawei is deeply involved.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/29/leaked-papers-link-xinjiang-crackdown-with-china-leadership

    It's about DJI and wacky allegations but you threw Huawei in there with similar wacky allegations with TWO links to the exact same source! Why? Did you think it would make your argument stronger?

    It didn't because the ''hard evidence' is nowhere to be found in either one!

    Make an effort to understand: Huawei is not China anymore than Google is the US.
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 17 of 103
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    It's definitely a wavky move and doesn't make a lot of sense. But then again, there is little sense on the entity list.

    US drones have been used in sovereign states for what basically amounts to summary executions. Have

    Drones that were designed to kill. Other drones are designed for reconnaissance.

    DJI also makes drones. Even if it wanted to, I doubt they could stop them from being used for  certain purposes.

    But these look like mere allegations. Not even hard evidence. 


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/12/14/huawei-surveillance-china/

    https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/14/22834860/huawei-leaked-documents-xinjiang-region-uyghur-facial-recognition-prisons-surveillance

    Hard evidence...
    That's hard nonsense! And has nothing to do with DJI!

    Advanced Facial recognition can be used to identify people by ethnicity. Any company worth its salt in the field can do it And the characteristic is a tentpole feature of companies that develop it.

    What purchasers do with the technology has little to do with the company that created it.

    Btw, Huawei is also developing facial recognition for pigs. I suppose pig privacy advocates will be up in arms if they get wind of that!
    So, you agree that the PRC is a human rights violator when surveillance is targeted at minorities (94% of China's population is ethnic Han), and the Huawei is deeply involved.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/29/leaked-papers-link-xinjiang-crackdown-with-china-leadership

    This is a distortion of fact. The fact is China is using surveillance at ALL people for security only. You extract Uyghurs out for your propaganda. 
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 18 of 103
    sbdudesbdude Posts: 182member
    mac_dog said:
    And turn a blind eye to the atrocities in Palestine. Hypocrisy at its finest. 

    You mean firing rockets into residential areas filled with innocent people and harboring terrorist organizations such as Hamas?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 19 of 103
    tmaytmay Posts: 5,824member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    It's definitely a wavky move and doesn't make a lot of sense. But then again, there is little sense on the entity list.

    US drones have been used in sovereign states for what basically amounts to summary executions. Have

    Drones that were designed to kill. Other drones are designed for reconnaissance.

    DJI also makes drones. Even if it wanted to, I doubt they could stop them from being used for  certain purposes.

    But these look like mere allegations. Not even hard evidence. 


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/12/14/huawei-surveillance-china/

    https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/14/22834860/huawei-leaked-documents-xinjiang-region-uyghur-facial-recognition-prisons-surveillance

    Hard evidence...
    That's hard nonsense! And has nothing to do with DJI!

    Advanced Facial recognition can be used to identify people by ethnicity. Any company worth its salt in the field can do it And the characteristic is a tentpole feature of companies that develop it.

    What purchasers do with the technology has little to do with the company that created it.

    Btw, Huawei is also developing facial recognition for pigs. I suppose pig privacy advocates will be up in arms if they get wind of that!
    So, you agree that the PRC is a human rights violator when surveillance is targeted at minorities (94% of China's population is ethnic Han), and the Huawei is deeply involved.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/29/leaked-papers-link-xinjiang-crackdown-with-china-leadership

    This is a distortion of fact. The fact is China is using surveillance at ALL people for security only. You extract Uyghurs out for your propaganda. 
    Perhaps it is simply that minorities are extracted to "reeducation" camps against their will, just as the evidence shows.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 20 of 103
    Maintaining enemies and war. Would be nice if the US actually cleaned up its act first. I see no intention of doing so. 
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