I feel for you my friend. You're obviously a very angry man with a somewhat eschewed agenda. Again, I'm not taking shots. It's just a discussion thread. Not an attack on you, your knowledge base, or your logic.
A software update every few months is understandable with any product. Security updates every other day or week is not. I, like many on this board, are sick of having to add patches to our systems on a routine basis to cover up holes in their software and architecture because its either unstable or unsecure. What's worse is when they issue these updates, we apply the updates and our systems are worse off than before because the patch causes more issues on our servers and client workstation.
This is what I mean by defective products. It's absolutely obsurd that companies have to go through this process and are basically at Microsoft's mercy.
A software update every few months is understandable with any product. Security updates every other day or week is not.
Sorry, but OSX isn't updated "every few months". It's "every few weeks". Oddly enough, just like Windows XP, which I've been using since it was called "Whistler" in beta and no one knew the name "XP" was even coming. I still wish it could look like Build2257 with Luna's icons.
There are not security updates every other day. Every other week is not common either. Every three weeks is average for XP, I'd say OSX in about the same time frame.
I use both operating systems and have since before they were released.
Again, you have no clue what you're talking about.
Quote:
I, like many on this board, are sick of having to add patches to our systems on a routine basis to cover up holes in their software and architecture because its either unstable or unsecure.
Then stop using computers. Name an OS that doesn't require this.
Again, I'm running MacOSX 10.2.6 right now.
Quote:
What's worse is when they issue these updates, we apply the updates and our systems are worse off than before because the patch causes more issues on our servers and client workstation.
That's life with computers. You want to tell me this isn't true for OSX as well?
The war was over a long time ago. Apple lost in a big way.
Why cling to the defeat and keep some idiotic hostility towards MS alive?
It isn't about the past groverat! Microsoft is STILL acting illegally, arrogantly and without imagination.
The war was over a long time ago, but Microsofts desire to continue to take advantage of its own role as the one remaining superpower ensures that hostilities will continue at the periferies.
If Microsoft wasn't dispised so much by many (obviously not including you) then Jobs wouldn't have gotten that laugh. Microsoft has gone down a particular path and I for one will make it's current (not just past) arrogant technological and business practices obvious to even those who chose to turn away and not notice!
"Did Apple not just do the SAME DAMNED THING with their entire operating system? Or did Apple invent Unix?"
If you are playing the who invented their OS cards, graverat, you will lose. Gates didn't invent DOS anyway, knidget, he bought it. Gates didn't invent Windows, he copied it from the Apple Finder.
If you have any doubt about which company is the more innovative, do this thought experiment.
Imagine Windows if Apple had not invented the Mac.
Now imagine the Mac if MS hadn't perfected DOS?
If you are at all honest with yourself you will have to admit that Windows needed the Mac, much more than the Mac needed Windows....oh, that's right, the Mac came BEFORE there was Windows....hmmm.
Oh yeah and as if it even needed to be said, the innovation question can also be addressed with seven simple letters .... W-Y-S-I-W-Y-G. Who did it first?
If you are playing the who invented their OS cards, graverat, you will lose. Gates didn't invent DOS anyway, knidget, he bought it. Gates didn't invent Windows, he copied it from the Apple Finder.
You're right. If you had the ability to comprehend my posts you would see me explicitly saying that building on someone else's work is the smart way to do things. Also you'll never see me saying that Gates invented DOS (where you get that from I have no idea) or that Gates didn't copy the Finder (where you get that form I have no idea, either).
"I must also inform you that the moon isn't made of cheese!"
Stay on topic if you acn.
Quote:
If you are at all honest with yourself you will have to admit that Windows needed the Mac, much more than the Mac needed Windows....oh, that's right, the Mac came BEFORE there was Windows....hmmm.
What does this have to do with what I am talking about?
Quote:
Oh yeah and as if it even needed to be said, the innovation question can also be addressed with seven simple letters .... W-Y-S-I-W-Y-G. Who did it first?
Didn't do it alone, but they helped a lot. A very nice connection technology. Sony used it before them, correct me if I'm wrong.
Quote:
Rendezvous
Did they not buy this from someone else? License it?
Again, a name change doesn't make it Apple's.
Quote:
Quartz
Quartz is very nice. But an innovation?
--
Re: innovation v. pioneer
If introducing something first is all it takes for innovation in this sense then I don't think many companies buy someone else's gear before it goes public innovate more than Microsoft.
Hell, if that's all it takes then .NET is a bigger innovation than anything Apple has done in the last 5 years.
The use of a RISC processor for a desktop PC would be an innovation.
Apple's proprietary bus technologies from the 90s would be innovations.
Did they not buy this from someone else? License it?
Again, a name change doesn't make it Apple's.
Apple branded it this for themselves. It is called ZeroConf and is part of the TCP/IP networking stack. Apple (reportedly) contributed heavily to this new standard...from their experience developing AppleTalk.
Comments
I feel for you my friend. You're obviously a very angry man with a somewhat eschewed agenda. Again, I'm not taking shots. It's just a discussion thread. Not an attack on you, your knowledge base, or your logic.
This is what I mean by defective products. It's absolutely obsurd that companies have to go through this process and are basically at Microsoft's mercy.
A software update every few months is understandable with any product. Security updates every other day or week is not.
Sorry, but OSX isn't updated "every few months". It's "every few weeks". Oddly enough, just like Windows XP, which I've been using since it was called "Whistler" in beta and no one knew the name "XP" was even coming. I still wish it could look like Build2257 with Luna's icons.
There are not security updates every other day. Every other week is not common either. Every three weeks is average for XP, I'd say OSX in about the same time frame.
I use both operating systems and have since before they were released.
Again, you have no clue what you're talking about.
I, like many on this board, are sick of having to add patches to our systems on a routine basis to cover up holes in their software and architecture because its either unstable or unsecure.
Then stop using computers. Name an OS that doesn't require this.
Again, I'm running MacOSX 10.2.6 right now.
What's worse is when they issue these updates, we apply the updates and our systems are worse off than before because the patch causes more issues on our servers and client workstation.
That's life with computers. You want to tell me this isn't true for OSX as well?
Originally posted by AppleLuva
We obviously have different opinions.
AppleLuva, you've just experienced the ... special thing which is known to us as groverat. Don't sweat it, he does/has done this to most of us.
Originally posted by groverat
Right.
The war was over a long time ago. Apple lost in a big way.
Why cling to the defeat and keep some idiotic hostility towards MS alive?
It isn't about the past groverat! Microsoft is STILL acting illegally, arrogantly and without imagination.
The war was over a long time ago, but Microsofts desire to continue to take advantage of its own role as the one remaining superpower ensures that hostilities will continue at the periferies.
If Microsoft wasn't dispised so much by many (obviously not including you) then Jobs wouldn't have gotten that laugh. Microsoft has gone down a particular path and I for one will make it's current (not just past) arrogant technological and business practices obvious to even those who chose to turn away and not notice!
Originally posted by der Kopf
AppleLuva, you've just experienced the ... special thing which is known to us as groverat. Don't sweat it, he does/has done this to most of us.
I know. Nothing personal taken at all. You have to respect a man who is dedicated to making his point.
"Did Apple not just do the SAME DAMNED THING with their entire operating system? Or did Apple invent Unix?"
If you are playing the who invented their OS cards, graverat, you will lose. Gates didn't invent DOS anyway, knidget, he bought it. Gates didn't invent Windows, he copied it from the Apple Finder.
If you have any doubt about which company is the more innovative, do this thought experiment.
Imagine Windows if Apple had not invented the Mac.
Now imagine the Mac if MS hadn't perfected DOS?
If you are at all honest with yourself you will have to admit that Windows needed the Mac, much more than the Mac needed Windows....oh, that's right, the Mac came BEFORE there was Windows....hmmm.
Oh yeah and as if it even needed to be said, the innovation question can also be addressed with seven simple letters .... W-Y-S-I-W-Y-G. Who did it first?
Looking forward to Groverat response to you. I've had my fun with him already. Now it's someone else's turn. Go get em Groverat!!! To arms, to arms!!
If you are playing the who invented their OS cards, graverat, you will lose. Gates didn't invent DOS anyway, knidget, he bought it. Gates didn't invent Windows, he copied it from the Apple Finder.
You're right. If you had the ability to comprehend my posts you would see me explicitly saying that building on someone else's work is the smart way to do things. Also you'll never see me saying that Gates invented DOS (where you get that from I have no idea) or that Gates didn't copy the Finder (where you get that form I have no idea, either).
"I must also inform you that the moon isn't made of cheese!"
Stay on topic if you acn.
If you are at all honest with yourself you will have to admit that Windows needed the Mac, much more than the Mac needed Windows....oh, that's right, the Mac came BEFORE there was Windows....hmmm.
What does this have to do with what I am talking about?
Oh yeah and as if it even needed to be said, the innovation question can also be addressed with seven simple letters .... W-Y-S-I-W-Y-G. Who did it first?
XeroxPARC?
Originally posted by groverat
That's life with computers. You want to tell me this isn't true for OSX as well?
Well, no.
Rarely do things get less stable for me with OS X.
Microsoft software is (generally) junk...in so many ways imaginable. It is "good enough" software.
Originally posted by groverat
I think an innovation is something that causes something to happen outside the Mac world. If it changes computing in general it's an innovation.
a short history of 20th Century Apple innovation (MicroSoft "imitation" dates in red)
see details here.
first _colour_ computer screen in a previously monochrome monitor world (thanks Woz!),
first LaserWriter (and PostScript), starting the Desktop Publishing Industry
first portables with integrated ergonomic trackball, trackpad, docks...
(before this, your choices were IBM pencil-eraser or clip-on mouse)
first multi-channel audio (Amiga shares some credit)
first Ethernet built-in
first Multimedia built-in (and first authoring environment)
first CD-ROM built-in
first 3.5inch floppy built-in (in a 5.25 or 8 inch floppy world until then)
first to kill the floppy (original iMac)
first Superdrive (floppy for 2.88Mb IBM/1.44Mb Mac/720Kb Mac)
first Superdrive (optical omniburner)
first to offer WideScreen DVD support (and authoring)
Apple innovates, everyone else copies.
production ship dates prove this is true across a range of products.
sorry if you seemed to miss or consciously overlook all this
research is good. historical record is clear. corporate reputations are deserved.
How in hell is dropping the floppy drive an innovation!? Sweet Jesus you're really reaching for something there.
Originally posted by groverat
The vast majority of those are evidence of Apple being early-adopters of someone else's technology.
i think the words you're looking for (regarding Apple and the Personal Computer space) are:
in·no·vate
(n-vt)
v. in·no·vat·ed, in·no·vat·ing, in·no·vates
v. tr.
To begin or introduce (something new) for or as if for the first time.
v. intr.
To begin or introduce something new.
or perhaps
pi·o·neer
(p-nîr)
n.
One who ventures into unknown or unclaimed territory to settle.
One who opens up new areas of thought, research, or development: a pioneer in aviation.
Ecology An animal or plant species that establishes itself in a previously barren environment.
adj.
Of, relating to, or characteristic of early settlers: the pioneer spirit.
Leading the way; trailblazing: a pioneer treatment for cancer.
v. pi·o·neered, pi·o·neer·ing, pi·o·neers
v. tr.
To open up (an area) or prepare (a way): rockets that pioneered outer space.
To settle (a region).
To initiate or participate in the development of: surgeons who pioneered organ transplants.
v. intr.
To act as a pioneer: pioneered in development of the laser.
still unclear?
I guess I?m not as innovative as you are.
Originally posted by groverat
What experience do you actually have with Microsoft products?
I have a fair amount. They pretty much suck.
"Graphical Unix" - Eh... Linux. Heard of it?
"Graphical Unix" - Eh... NEXTSTEP. Heard of it?
Shoot NEXTSTEP was a product a full three years before Linux was a even a sperm swimming towards an egg.
Firewire,
Didn't do it alone, but they helped a lot. A very nice connection technology. Sony used it before them, correct me if I'm wrong.
Rendezvous
Did they not buy this from someone else? License it?
Again, a name change doesn't make it Apple's.
Quartz
Quartz is very nice. But an innovation?
--
Re: innovation v. pioneer
If introducing something first is all it takes for innovation in this sense then I don't think many companies buy someone else's gear before it goes public innovate more than Microsoft.
Hell, if that's all it takes then .NET is a bigger innovation than anything Apple has done in the last 5 years.
The use of a RISC processor for a desktop PC would be an innovation.
Apple's proprietary bus technologies from the 90s would be innovations.
Microsoft BOB would be an innovation.
Originally posted by groverat
Did they not buy this from someone else? License it?
Again, a name change doesn't make it Apple's.
Apple branded it this for themselves. It is called ZeroConf and is part of the TCP/IP networking stack. Apple (reportedly) contributed heavily to this new standard...from their experience developing AppleTalk.
Quartz is very nice. But an innovation?
I would say yes.
facts and logic seems to disagree with the MS Fanboy in him
Microsoft BOB would be an innovation
mmmmkay... that explains a lot about you.