Yes I know most schools go back in August. A significant minority go back as late as Sept. 15th. I'm just saying that I think it is now obvious that Steve's gonna milk every last drop out of all the current product lines until every last kid is back in school. Everything then gets bumped at Paris on the 16th. PBs, iMacs, everything.
Another benefit (to Apple) is that a good number of back to school shoppers might cave and buy a much higher margin G5 since it's the only "new" product.
Yes I know most schools go back in August. A significant minority go back as late as Sept. 15th. I'm just saying that I think it is now obvious that Steve's gonna milk every last drop out of all the current product lines until every last kid is back in school. Everything then gets bumped at Paris on the 16th. PBs, iMacs, everything.
Another benefit (to Apple) is that a good number of back to school shoppers might cave and buy a much higher margin G5 since it's the only "new" product.
Yeah, some people seem to be taking the price cuts as channel clearing but I suspect that they are actually to help keep sales to students up over what might otherwise be a very poor back to school season for Apple.
I wouldn't cave and buy a G5.. I doubt many students would actually. I'm quite happy with my Linux desktop and I can also run Windows on it for games. A G5 would be excellent for serious design work or programming or just general use but most students would be more interested in something portable I think. Students tend to be budget conscious and while the G5 is excellent but the vast majority of students do not need $3000 worth of desktop machine (unless they're hardcore gamers, but Mac is not the platform for hardcore gamers), or $2000 worth for that matter. I myself will probably cave and buy a new 12" and get the iPod bundle.. might not be cutting edge but it suits my needs I think and the price is right. Well, they've got another week or two to prove me wrong and release a 15" aluminum model, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
Well, with the 12" Powerbook at 1399 it'd be really stupid to buy the 1199 ibook... I'm thinking that iPod deal is sounding really good...
However, the lack of cache really gives me pause. It seems to up chip performance dramatically, so I don't understand why chips don't have like 4mb caches.
Have to check w/ the boyfriend and see if he'll let me run up our debt tho... at least I'm not pushing for the 17" anymore.
Maybe I'll have to go visit good ol' Twelvie at the Apple store and see if I get any maternal urges...
Well, with the 12" Powerbook at 1399 it'd be really stupid to buy the 1199 ibook... I'm thinking that iPod deal is sounding really good...
However, the lack of cache really gives me pause. It seems to up chip performance dramatically, so I don't understand why chips don't have like 4mb caches.
Have to check w/ the boyfriend and see if he'll let me run up our debt tho... at least I'm not pushing for the 17" anymore.
Maybe I'll have to go visit good ol' Twelvie at the Apple store and see if I get any maternal urges...
The benchmarks on the 12" seem to show that the lack of an L3 cache don't cause it to take too much of a hit. Cache's are important, but for one thing, they are quite expensive. Memory of any type (cache, ram, or disk) are a trade off between speed and price, so chip makers have to strike a balance between price and power. At a certain point cache loses it's effectiveness as well. Generally at any time there is a small amount of memory that the CPU will need to touch fairly frequently. If something is referenced only seldomly it is a waste to store it in the cache. So in short the cache issue on the 12" is probably to make it more affordable or (as Apple says I believe) to help reduce heat. It's not that the 12" doesn't have any cache of course, just that it has an inferior cache.
I went to see the 15" at the Apple store today, but I was drawn to the 12" instead. Not exactly maternal or paternal instincts in my case at least though. More just a plain and simple desire for high tech goodies. I really did like the titanium design, until I started playing with an aluminum powerbook...
...I think with G5 not shipping until Sept (they say August meaning 1 system ships at Aug 31 and the rest a month later when production ramps up), ...
Went to MWNY a couple of days ago, and G5's were all over the Apple booth (not in anyone else's tho). I'd say at least 30 of them, plus 17" powerbooks. No MDDs or 15" books in Apple's booth anywhere. I think the production is ramped up already, and G5's will be in stock everywhere by the end of August.
They were simply announced with a press release. Unless Apple plans on announcing a G5 PB at Macworld Paris, there's no need to wait for a big event to announce what amounts to a speedbump for the PBs.
Most rumors point to a Paris release but if that's true, it'll hurt Apple. PowerBook unit sales declined 3% last quarter and without a refresh, they'll continue to decline. Of course, if there's going to be a PBG5 sooner than we thought, that'd be great!
Totally agree, it seems painfully obvious to me. Apple has not been able to announce faster PB's because the G4 is most likely too hot at >1Ghz, which is why they have been waiting for enough stock if any of the new 7457's.
I dont see Apple waiting for Paris for this one - unless we see G5 PB's, and if the rumours are to be believed, G5's are estimated to be available around February (thats the 6month update - we should be accustomed to).
I need a new 15", but Im (all Apple customers) are entitled to a comparatively (Dell 2.8G) fair and reasonable update, but I have a Ti400, so I will accept the next update ASAP. Not happy!
even with the Al12 at 1399 edu, I haven't bit because I have this feeling that when I've had it for 3 days the new line will come out.
Maybe I should buy one, and the evil computer karma I have will mean Apple will finally come out with the AlBook that has been waiting in a warehouse for the signal that I've bought a new notebook -- so that the rest of you won't have to wait any more.
Maybe even my computer karma won't bring this stupid thing into the light of day.
It's weird, because if a Sept/Oct release of 7457 pbs, then a Jan G5 release seems a little early... but if they wait to update the whole PB line until MWSF (or whatever it's called) then it'll be a YEAR between updates, and that seems like suicide.
And since we've been waiting for this update for what, 8 months, and predicting its likely features, it'll seem kinda disappointing when it finally emerges.
Masker, thanks for the update but the channel has been purged a few times now and always seems to get more pesky 'Ti's in its bonnet
Hope you're right tho, and it's a new PB just in time for back-to-school shoppage...
The only thing, halode, is that Apple has indeed - on a few occasions - gone a ridiculously long time between updates (the G4 iMac springs to mind immediately).
And here's the thing too: if these new 7457 PowerBooks come out in August/September (I think they will, BTW), what makes any of us suddenly forget history and actually think they'll be brand new, G5-based PowerBooks in just four short months after that at MWSF 2004?
I can't see it. I can't see all this waiting for updated G4 aluminum PowerBooks and they only stick around for 3-4 months.
I still believe that any G5-based PowerBook is this time next year at the earliest. MAYBE springtime. But certainly not January at MWSF. Everything we read and know about the G5 just doesn't support that happening right now.
I have a feeling anyone who's been waiting (like me and others) who buys this upcoming round of PowerBooks will probably enjoy 8-10 months of "hey, I got the best there is!" feelings.
Just rewind a bit and look at history and try to remember if Apple has ever updated/revved a product in only four short months? Not only a standard, low-level rev, but an entire new chip, architecture, etc.?
If they have (and I know someone here will let us know), it hasn't been more than once and it's a total fluke and NOT their standard way of doing things. They seem to always go AT LEAST 9 months between product revisions.
At least during the "iEra" of Jobs' return, which, let's face it, is the only timeframe and cycle that interests me. 1998 is when everything changed and Apple started to get REALLY cool and after of 4-5 years of using Macs, I suddenly - with all this plastic, curvy iStuff - began to really, really follow and take notice and visit news and rumor sites.
Jobs gets my eternal devotion and admiration for flinging the floppy, ADB, SCSI, etc. from the Macs and just saying "this is the new, better way...".
Any of us really want to give up FireWire and go back to SCSI IDs and terminators and shutdowns/restarts to connect peripherals? Me neither.
"...Jobs has recently clarified a often quoted statement he made earlier this year. "When i said "year of the laptops", what I meant to say was "year of the unupdated Titanium laptop."
Comments
Yes I know most schools go back in August. A significant minority go back as late as Sept. 15th. I'm just saying that I think it is now obvious that Steve's gonna milk every last drop out of all the current product lines until every last kid is back in school. Everything then gets bumped at Paris on the 16th. PBs, iMacs, everything.
Another benefit (to Apple) is that a good number of back to school shoppers might cave and buy a much higher margin G5 since it's the only "new" product.
Originally posted by Ensign Pulver
taleisin and Delphiki,
Yes I know most schools go back in August. A significant minority go back as late as Sept. 15th. I'm just saying that I think it is now obvious that Steve's gonna milk every last drop out of all the current product lines until every last kid is back in school. Everything then gets bumped at Paris on the 16th. PBs, iMacs, everything.
Another benefit (to Apple) is that a good number of back to school shoppers might cave and buy a much higher margin G5 since it's the only "new" product.
Yeah, some people seem to be taking the price cuts as channel clearing but I suspect that they are actually to help keep sales to students up over what might otherwise be a very poor back to school season for Apple.
I wouldn't cave and buy a G5.. I doubt many students would actually. I'm quite happy with my Linux desktop and I can also run Windows on it for games. A G5 would be excellent for serious design work or programming or just general use but most students would be more interested in something portable I think. Students tend to be budget conscious and while the G5 is excellent but the vast majority of students do not need $3000 worth of desktop machine (unless they're hardcore gamers, but Mac is not the platform for hardcore gamers), or $2000 worth for that matter. I myself will probably cave and buy a new 12" and get the iPod bundle.. might not be cutting edge but it suits my needs I think and the price is right. Well, they've got another week or two to prove me wrong and release a 15" aluminum model, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
However, the lack of cache really gives me pause. It seems to up chip performance dramatically, so I don't understand why chips don't have like 4mb caches.
Have to check w/ the boyfriend and see if he'll let me run up our debt tho... at least I'm not pushing for the 17" anymore.
Maybe I'll have to go visit good ol' Twelvie at the Apple store and see if I get any maternal urges...
Originally posted by halode
Well, with the 12" Powerbook at 1399 it'd be really stupid to buy the 1199 ibook... I'm thinking that iPod deal is sounding really good...
However, the lack of cache really gives me pause. It seems to up chip performance dramatically, so I don't understand why chips don't have like 4mb caches.
Have to check w/ the boyfriend and see if he'll let me run up our debt tho... at least I'm not pushing for the 17" anymore.
Maybe I'll have to go visit good ol' Twelvie at the Apple store and see if I get any maternal urges...
The benchmarks on the 12" seem to show that the lack of an L3 cache don't cause it to take too much of a hit. Cache's are important, but for one thing, they are quite expensive. Memory of any type (cache, ram, or disk) are a trade off between speed and price, so chip makers have to strike a balance between price and power. At a certain point cache loses it's effectiveness as well. Generally at any time there is a small amount of memory that the CPU will need to touch fairly frequently. If something is referenced only seldomly it is a waste to store it in the cache. So in short the cache issue on the 12" is probably to make it more affordable or (as Apple says I believe) to help reduce heat. It's not that the 12" doesn't have any cache of course, just that it has an inferior cache.
I went to see the 15" at the Apple store today, but I was drawn to the 12" instead. Not exactly maternal or paternal instincts in my case at least though. More just a plain and simple desire for high tech goodies. I really did like the titanium design, until I started playing with an aluminum powerbook...
Little softer, rounder, sleeker.
Like you dipped an iBook into liquid metal or something.
Originally posted by Masker
A good sign of channel clearing...
1.6GHz Power Mac: $1799 was $1899
1.8GHz Power Mac: $2199 was $2299
2.0GHz Power Mac: $2699 was $2849
So they're clearing the channel of G5s in anticipation of a product refresh?
Originally posted by Amorph
So they're clearing the channel of G5s in anticipation of a product refresh?
Nah, this is a scheme to pre-sell as many as possible before people find out that they're going to be delayed until October.
Originally posted by eat@me
...I think with G5 not shipping until Sept (they say August meaning 1 system ships at Aug 31 and the rest a month later when production ramps up), ...
Went to MWNY a couple of days ago, and G5's were all over the Apple booth (not in anyone else's tho). I'd say at least 30 of them, plus 17" powerbooks. No MDDs or 15" books in Apple's booth anywhere. I think the production is ramped up already, and G5's will be in stock everywhere by the end of August.
Originally posted by DHagan4755
A thread over at MacNN discusses how a Japanese electronics store says the TiBooks have been discontinued.
That same thread has a rumor ("Page 2" quality) that retailers in Vancouver, B.C. are fresh out of TiBooks and aren't expecting any more.
Anyone heard of a long-running off-Broadway musical "The Fantasticks"?
[ Rumors ] new portables - Lionel - 08:51:42
Hereby information on the future of the APPLE portables. The
source is highly reliable. New Powerbook should arrive at the end of
the next month. They were pushed back because of... Motorola once
more. They had manufacture problems with the PPC 7457. The 12" model will
reach 1133 MHz and the other models will be at 1,25 and 1,33 GHz.
USB 2.0 and Firewire 800 will be generalized with the whole range. We
did not have information on the presence or absence of the 15". We
will have other information in the near future.
As for the G5 portables, one should see them arrive at the beginning
of 2004 (can be as early as February). There is still much work to be done on the
controller of the mother board which dissipates too much heat. They
will have to engrave it in 0,09 Microns.
The wait is almost over
Originally posted by salty chips
The wait is almost over
My comment from the the other thread:
Originally posted by Kabeyun
Macdoobie is unreliable drivel looking for 15 minutes of fame. I'm SURE their source is "highly reliable."
People are being forced to double post in each of the Powerbook threads. Can we please just lock one of them?
Originally posted by Ensign Pulver
Hey mods,
People are being forced to double post in each of the Powerbook threads. Can we please just lock one of them?
I agree, things are getting confusing. I don't know which thread to post in about PBs anymore. I'm happy with this thread because I'm sick of waiting!
Originally posted by Rolo
They were simply announced with a press release. Unless Apple plans on announcing a G5 PB at Macworld Paris, there's no need to wait for a big event to announce what amounts to a speedbump for the PBs.
Most rumors point to a Paris release but if that's true, it'll hurt Apple. PowerBook unit sales declined 3% last quarter and without a refresh, they'll continue to decline. Of course, if there's going to be a PBG5 sooner than we thought, that'd be great!
Totally agree, it seems painfully obvious to me. Apple has not been able to announce faster PB's because the G4 is most likely too hot at >1Ghz, which is why they have been waiting for enough stock if any of the new 7457's.
I dont see Apple waiting for Paris for this one - unless we see G5 PB's, and if the rumours are to be believed, G5's are estimated to be available around February (thats the 6month update - we should be accustomed to).
I need a new 15", but Im (all Apple customers) are entitled to a comparatively (Dell 2.8G) fair and reasonable update, but I have a Ti400, so I will accept the next update ASAP. Not happy!
A week or two ago, one distributor was out the other had 500+ Titanium powerbooks available.. And today? The channel has cleard out significantly.
There is not more than a week or so's supply of TiBooks (according to my sources) so maybe we'll see something 8-5? or 8-12? (speculating)
Hope deceives eternal....
MSKR
even with the Al12 at 1399 edu, I haven't bit because I have this feeling that when I've had it for 3 days the new line will come out.
Maybe I should buy one, and the evil computer karma I have will mean Apple will finally come out with the AlBook that has been waiting in a warehouse for the signal that I've bought a new notebook -- so that the rest of you won't have to wait any more.
Maybe even my computer karma won't bring this stupid thing into the light of day.
It's weird, because if a Sept/Oct release of 7457 pbs, then a Jan G5 release seems a little early... but if they wait to update the whole PB line until MWSF (or whatever it's called) then it'll be a YEAR between updates, and that seems like suicide.
And since we've been waiting for this update for what, 8 months, and predicting its likely features, it'll seem kinda disappointing when it finally emerges.
Masker, thanks for the update but the channel has been purged a few times now and always seems to get more pesky 'Ti's in its bonnet
Hope you're right tho, and it's a new PB just in time for back-to-school shoppage...
And here's the thing too: if these new 7457 PowerBooks come out in August/September (I think they will, BTW), what makes any of us suddenly forget history and actually think they'll be brand new, G5-based PowerBooks in just four short months after that at MWSF 2004?
I can't see it. I can't see all this waiting for updated G4 aluminum PowerBooks and they only stick around for 3-4 months.
I still believe that any G5-based PowerBook is this time next year at the earliest. MAYBE springtime. But certainly not January at MWSF. Everything we read and know about the G5 just doesn't support that happening right now.
I have a feeling anyone who's been waiting (like me and others) who buys this upcoming round of PowerBooks will probably enjoy 8-10 months of "hey, I got the best there is!" feelings.
Just rewind a bit and look at history and try to remember if Apple has ever updated/revved a product in only four short months? Not only a standard, low-level rev, but an entire new chip, architecture, etc.?
If they have (and I know someone here will let us know), it hasn't been more than once and it's a total fluke and NOT their standard way of doing things. They seem to always go AT LEAST 9 months between product revisions.
At least during the "iEra" of Jobs' return, which, let's face it, is the only timeframe and cycle that interests me. 1998 is when everything changed and Apple started to get REALLY cool and after of 4-5 years of using Macs, I suddenly - with all this plastic, curvy iStuff - began to really, really follow and take notice and visit news and rumor sites.
Jobs gets my eternal devotion and admiration for flinging the floppy, ADB, SCSI, etc. from the Macs and just saying "this is the new, better way...".
Any of us really want to give up FireWire and go back to SCSI IDs and terminators and shutdowns/restarts to connect peripherals? Me neither.
From Macdreamer.com
"...Jobs has recently clarified a often quoted statement he made earlier this year. "When i said "year of the laptops", what I meant to say was "year of the unupdated Titanium laptop."
MSKR