<strong>Is the 64bit G5 coming? Apparently not. </strong><hr></blockquote>
I really seriously doubt 95% of the people on these boards truly have any use what-so-ever for a full 64-bit processor. Whether the next chip is 64-bit or 32 bit won't really make too much difference except as a marketing gimmick.
<strong> [quote]Is Aqua finally gonna work quickly? Apparently not. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually from what I have seen Jaguar offers significant improvements performance wise. Is it perfect? Not really but it works fast enough.
Funnily enough I'm not really sure where that is coming from. Firewire 2 should be appearing right around the time new powermacs would (late summer).
It isn't too big a leap of faith to say Apple would probably delay the next powermacs slightly if necessary so they could claim leadership in this area.
<strong>I really seriously doubt 95% of the people on these boards truly have any use what-so-ever for a full 64-bit processor. Whether the next chip is 64-bit or 32 bit won't really make too much difference except as a marketing gimmick.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah right, 640KB should more than enough for everybody... <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
Apple is already trying the impossible: convincing the masses that MHz don't really matter. Next what, are we gonna have--come MWSF2003--Steve enlightening us on the "64-bit myth"? That'd be simply ridiculous... <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
So you had a chance to try it already? Or how do you know so precisely?</strong><hr></blockquote>
i don't know if he has had a chance to use it, but i have been running 10.2 for about two or three weeks now and i must say i am impressed. i have just recently installed the 6c48 build which improves even further.
my point-of-view? an iBook (dual usb) running at a measly 500MHz. this used to feel pretty pathetic as recently as 10.1.5, but menus are instantaneous now ... and most window draws are substantially improved. i've only taken advantage of general use and have not played with the DVD player or other "nifty" features.
<strong>By the time SF comes around, you can bet that AMD will have launched the Opteron at 3600+ and Intel will be at 2.8 GHz at least.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'd like to elaborate some more on this, since you offered such a great example.
The Hammer family will not only be a 64-bit family--it's already (see the early tests on the prototypes) a huge accomplishment efficiency-wise. The Opteron is already 40% (or so THG quoted some e-zine saying) faster than an Athlon at the same clock speed executing non-optimized 32-bit code. :eek:
That's no 64-bit myth, that's a hell of great design... Apple simply can't afford to be left behind on this issue, period. We need a 64-bit PowerPC CPU, because so the market dictates.
fact is that for 32bit applications, a 64bit cpu is going to be around 5% slower than a 32bit cpu of the "same architecture and speed" (as far as this is possible), because the 64bit CPU is spending more time for addressing RAM.
So, at the moment, 64bit CPUs are not going to give us what we want. As long as the OS and the apps don't take advantage of it, 64bit is only interestnig to science and really heavy computing tasks.
Only because 64bit is twice the bits of 32bit, doesn't mean its also twice as fast...
You should have some reads over at anandtech and ars for further info.
G_news
PS: that means that the opteron is faster than the athlon , because of the design, not because it's a 64bit chip.
I would wager that we've gotten everything out of all the 'sources' that they can divuldge. Remember how hush hush things are at Apple prior to any major announcment? The sales reps, service reps, marketing people, and even many of their suppliers are clueless. Usually the best we can do is get wind of the announcment 1-2 days prior to show time. But honestly...who ISN'T going to be glued to their broadband connection during the keynote? I sure as heck will! Rain or shine, I'll be on time.
Steve Jobs for President
"My fellow Americans...please send all your pc's to the hungry kids in india so they can manufacture missle guidance systems based on windows. That way halfway over the atlantic they'll have a lock up and fall out of the sky. With the start of the new fiscal year I will be donating 1 computer per student to every school in the US which changes it's name to Macintosh, Apple, Steve Jobs, or iWhatever High/Middle/Elementary. In this way we will create a new bread of human, impervious to the tempation of the Microsoftian Dark Side. We will never agian feel the breath of such industry giant's as themselves on the back of our necks, and over our keyboads. Our creative juices will flow and our minds will act as one. Together, we shall prevail!"
Thus ends the dream. Was it a vision? A day dream? An erotic fantasy? Or just stale pizza? Time will tell...
[quote] /fantastical story ommitted./ Thus ends the dream. Was it a vision? A day dream? An erotic fantasy? Or just stale pizza? Time will tell... <hr></blockquote>
methinks it was a prophecy. or ganja.
/edit:i didn't really edit this post. i'm just tryin' to freak out squares./
There will be an e500 core based desktop processor based on Apple's requirements. The e500 core is a 7 stage pipeline design very similar to the 7455 core (they both get about 2300MIPS). The execution units are very similar, in quantity and performance. There is an Altivec add on built for the e500. Apple's implimentation has dual RIO ports and a memory controller. The interconnect is the e500 native OCEAN and this is a wide/fast bus, only for on die interconnects. Multiprocessing in handled via RapidIO's 16 bit variant. It connects to a RapidIO hub (RIOH) that serves as the central hub for various RIO devices, such as peripheral controllers, PCI controllers, other PowerPC processors, network processors, etc. The hub controls the bit width and frequency, and this is determined by the distance from the hub (trace length). If both processors are proximate to the RIOH then you can have them connect at a low overhead 16bit wide RIO tunnel at a 2GHz freqency. To connect to a PCI controller you can keep the 16 bit wide port or if pin out is an issue you may need to drop it to 8 bit and run it at a lower frequency such as 500MHz. RIO is capable of over 7GBps bandwidth running at 16bit.
The beauty of Book E is the modularity. The way Motorola designed it was so a customer can pick and choose the components. this was as long as the customer had the money to spend as I imagine this is not an inexpensive proposistion. But it is an ideal solution for Apple. They can choose the size of the L2 cache, number of e500 cores, kind of memory controllers available, if they wanted a PCI controller also embedded... And rumor is that e500 core will soon be joined by another high performance core.
Good God, Dorsal. You're talking candiness! If this is true, it sounds like an ideal situation for both companies. Allow for customization while providing for a powerful base.
<strong>So then the people that said Apple canceled the G5 order with Moto are full of crap?</strong><hr></blockquote>
PC users posing as Children of The Divine Mac are always full of crap. I still hold that Apple has more in store for us then we bargained for. It will be "Thank you for coming to the Keynote, my name is SJ, and I am iCEO of Apple. Today I have a surprise for you...the (fill in the blank).
<strong>There will be an e500 core based desktop processor based on Apple's requirements. The e500 core is a 7 stage pipeline design very similar to the 7455 core (they both get about 2300MIPS). The execution units are very similar, in quantity and performance. There is an Altivec add on built for the e500. Apple's implimentation has dual RIO ports and a memory controller. The interconnect is the e500 native OCEAN and this is a wide/fast bus, only for on die interconnects. Multiprocessing in handled via RapidIO's 16 bit variant. It connects to a RapidIO hub (RIOH) that serves as the central hub for various RIO devices, such as peripheral controllers, PCI controllers, other PowerPC processors, network processors, etc. The hub controls the bit width and frequency, and this is determined by the distance from the hub (trace length). If both processors are proximate to the RIOH then you can have them connect at a low overhead 16bit wide RIO tunnel at a 2GHz freqency. To connect to a PCI controller you can keep the 16 bit wide port or if pin out is an issue you may need to drop it to 8 bit and run it at a lower frequency such as 500MHz. RIO is capable of over 7GBps bandwidth running at 16bit.
The beauty of Book E is the modularity. The way Motorola designed it was so a customer can pick and choose the components. this was as long as the customer had the money to spend as I imagine this is not an inexpensive proposistion. But it is an ideal solution for Apple. They can choose the size of the L2 cache, number of e500 cores, kind of memory controllers available, if they wanted a PCI controller also embedded... And rumor is that e500 core will soon be joined by another high performance core.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Nothing outlandish here, but no timeframe given... 8540 is going into sampling soon, so it may be plausible that Moto's single most visible customer could get preferential treatment. Next year is more likely though. Technically there is nothing outlandish about this post. Dorsal seems to be getting better at "well grounded" posts.
The comments about Motorolla are promising, but I would like to hear more on this:
[quote] You will see a collaboration with another hardware company, but this will not surprise some of you in the know.<hr></blockquote>
I doubt that this hardware company is Sony, and I would like it to be IBM...Other likely candidates are ATI and Nvidia. I guess that there is an outside chance for an AMD collaberation based on rumours as well...
<strong>I doubt that this hardware company is Sony, and I would like it to be IBM...Other likely candidates are ATI and Nvidia. I guess that there is an outside chance for an AMD collaberation based on rumours as well...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Comments
Hurry!
<strong>yes I'm waiting too. C'mon Dorsal !</strong><hr></blockquote>
Don't push him - the longer he takes, the better stuff he can think off!
<strong>Is the 64bit G5 coming? Apparently not. </strong><hr></blockquote>
I really seriously doubt 95% of the people on these boards truly have any use what-so-ever for a full 64-bit processor. Whether the next chip is 64-bit or 32 bit won't really make too much difference except as a marketing gimmick.
<strong> [quote]Is Aqua finally gonna work quickly? Apparently not. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually from what I have seen Jaguar offers significant improvements performance wise. Is it perfect? Not really but it works fast enough.
<strong> [quote] FW2? Apparently not. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Funnily enough I'm not really sure where that is coming from. Firewire 2 should be appearing right around the time new powermacs would (late summer).
It isn't too big a leap of faith to say Apple would probably delay the next powermacs slightly if necessary so they could claim leadership in this area.
<strong>I really seriously doubt 95% of the people on these boards truly have any use what-so-ever for a full 64-bit processor. Whether the next chip is 64-bit or 32 bit won't really make too much difference except as a marketing gimmick.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah right, 640KB should more than enough for everybody... <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
Apple is already trying the impossible: convincing the masses that MHz don't really matter. Next what, are we gonna have--come MWSF2003--Steve enlightening us on the "64-bit myth"? That'd be simply ridiculous... <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
ZoSo
Whether the next chip is 64-bit or 32 bit won't really make too much difference except as a marketing gimmick <hr></blockquote>
That is precisely why Apple needs something to counter it.
By the time SF comes around, you can bet that AMD will have launched the Opteron at 3600+ and Intel will be at 2.8 GHz at least.
Marketing is everything (look at the consoles).
[Edit: ZoSo beat me to it
[ 06-17-2002: Message edited by: DaveLee ]</p>
<strong>Marketing is everything (look at the consoles).
[Edit: ZoSo beat me to it
That's precisely what I was referring to.
ZoSo
<strong>
So you had a chance to try it already? Or how do you know so precisely?</strong><hr></blockquote>
i don't know if he has had a chance to use it, but i have been running 10.2 for about two or three weeks now and i must say i am impressed. i have just recently installed the 6c48 build which improves even further.
my point-of-view? an iBook (dual usb) running at a measly 500MHz. this used to feel pretty pathetic as recently as 10.1.5, but menus are instantaneous now ... and most window draws are substantially improved. i've only taken advantage of general use and have not played with the DVD player or other "nifty" features.
just thought you might be interested.
<strong>By the time SF comes around, you can bet that AMD will have launched the Opteron at 3600+ and Intel will be at 2.8 GHz at least.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'd like to elaborate some more on this, since you offered such a great example.
The Hammer family will not only be a 64-bit family--it's already (see the early tests on the prototypes) a huge accomplishment efficiency-wise. The Opteron is already 40% (or so THG quoted some e-zine saying) faster than an Athlon at the same clock speed executing non-optimized 32-bit code. :eek:
That's no 64-bit myth, that's a hell of great design... Apple simply can't afford to be left behind on this issue, period. We need a 64-bit PowerPC CPU, because so the market dictates.
[Edit: or so it will in less than 6 months]
ZoSo
[ 06-17-2002: Message edited by: ZoSo ]</p>
So, at the moment, 64bit CPUs are not going to give us what we want. As long as the OS and the apps don't take advantage of it, 64bit is only interestnig to science and really heavy computing tasks.
Only because 64bit is twice the bits of 32bit, doesn't mean its also twice as fast...
You should have some reads over at anandtech and ars for further info.
G_news
PS: that means that the opteron is faster than the athlon , because of the design, not because it's a 64bit chip.
G_News
[ 06-17-2002: Message edited by: G-News ]</p>
Steve Jobs for President
"My fellow Americans...please send all your pc's to the hungry kids in india so they can manufacture missle guidance systems based on windows. That way halfway over the atlantic they'll have a lock up and fall out of the sky. With the start of the new fiscal year I will be donating 1 computer per student to every school in the US which changes it's name to Macintosh, Apple, Steve Jobs, or iWhatever High/Middle/Elementary. In this way we will create a new bread of human, impervious to the tempation of the Microsoftian Dark Side. We will never agian feel the breath of such industry giant's as themselves on the back of our necks, and over our keyboads. Our creative juices will flow and our minds will act as one. Together, we shall prevail!"
Thus ends the dream. Was it a vision? A day dream? An erotic fantasy? Or just stale pizza? Time will tell...
methinks it was a prophecy. or ganja.
/edit:i didn't really edit this post. i'm just tryin' to freak out squares./
[ 06-17-2002: Message edited by: thuh Freak ]</p>
The beauty of Book E is the modularity. The way Motorola designed it was so a customer can pick and choose the components. this was as long as the customer had the money to spend as I imagine this is not an inexpensive proposistion. But it is an ideal solution for Apple. They can choose the size of the L2 cache, number of e500 cores, kind of memory controllers available, if they wanted a PCI controller also embedded... And rumor is that e500 core will soon be joined by another high performance core.
Please be real!
-----------------------------------------
Under the Dorsal Fin in Nashvegas
<strong>So then the people that said Apple canceled the G5 order with Moto are full of crap?</strong><hr></blockquote>
PC users posing as Children of The Divine Mac are always full of crap. I still hold that Apple has more in store for us then we bargained for. It will be "Thank you for coming to the Keynote, my name is SJ, and I am iCEO of Apple. Today I have a surprise for you...the (fill in the blank).
{insert ooh's and aah's here)
<strong>There will be an e500 core based desktop processor based on Apple's requirements. The e500 core is a 7 stage pipeline design very similar to the 7455 core (they both get about 2300MIPS). The execution units are very similar, in quantity and performance. There is an Altivec add on built for the e500. Apple's implimentation has dual RIO ports and a memory controller. The interconnect is the e500 native OCEAN and this is a wide/fast bus, only for on die interconnects. Multiprocessing in handled via RapidIO's 16 bit variant. It connects to a RapidIO hub (RIOH) that serves as the central hub for various RIO devices, such as peripheral controllers, PCI controllers, other PowerPC processors, network processors, etc. The hub controls the bit width and frequency, and this is determined by the distance from the hub (trace length). If both processors are proximate to the RIOH then you can have them connect at a low overhead 16bit wide RIO tunnel at a 2GHz freqency. To connect to a PCI controller you can keep the 16 bit wide port or if pin out is an issue you may need to drop it to 8 bit and run it at a lower frequency such as 500MHz. RIO is capable of over 7GBps bandwidth running at 16bit.
The beauty of Book E is the modularity. The way Motorola designed it was so a customer can pick and choose the components. this was as long as the customer had the money to spend as I imagine this is not an inexpensive proposistion. But it is an ideal solution for Apple. They can choose the size of the L2 cache, number of e500 cores, kind of memory controllers available, if they wanted a PCI controller also embedded... And rumor is that e500 core will soon be joined by another high performance core.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Nothing outlandish here, but no timeframe given... 8540 is going into sampling soon, so it may be plausible that Moto's single most visible customer could get preferential treatment. Next year is more likely though. Technically there is nothing outlandish about this post. Dorsal seems to be getting better at "well grounded" posts.
Reminder: The e500 core is a 64-bit PowerPC.
[quote] You will see a collaboration with another hardware company, but this will not surprise some of you in the know.<hr></blockquote>
I doubt that this hardware company is Sony, and I would like it to be IBM...Other likely candidates are ATI and Nvidia. I guess that there is an outside chance for an AMD collaberation based on rumours as well...
<strong>I doubt that this hardware company is Sony, and I would like it to be IBM...Other likely candidates are ATI and Nvidia. I guess that there is an outside chance for an AMD collaberation based on rumours as well...</strong><hr></blockquote>
My money is on nVidia.
So, Programmer, the e500, if it can have 'more than one core' could be dual core?
If...Apple wishes it?
Lemon Bon Bon <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />