[QUOTEHP?s digital music player is expected to become available this summer and be competitively priced to other digital music players currently available.
Beginning this summer, the iTunes software and a desktop icon guiding users to the music site will be preloaded on HP Pavilion, Media Center and Compaq Presario desktop and notebook consumer PCs
"The music service will be run in conjunction with an existing service like Musicmatch.com and compete with music stores from Apple Computer Inc. and Dell Inc. , HPShopping.com chief executive officer Peter Appl said in an interview Tuesday."
"Appl said the company had not yet decided the exact design of the product, adding that HP wants to be sure to set its digital music player apart from competitors."
1. Point taken, but in the end, think of the core markets. . . . USA, Europe, Japan. What I fear we are seeing is a real limit on the ability to expand Apple sales, that HP will cannibalise Apple etc.
2. How did you know about my Calvins? Anyway, disagree strongly. This is Marketing 101. Market segmentation, building of a brand. The iPod brand is really important - it still has room to grow sure - but this means millions in its own right. If you have an iPod, which looks and sounds and feels like an iPod, but you call it something else, this really does result in dilution of the brand.
3. Duh, they have to split the profit!
Cheers!
Quote:
Originally posted by Mark- Card Carrying FanaticRealist
1) Not an almost identical iPod, it's a blue iPod with the same controls that boots with an Apple logo. Why? Because there are a whole bunch of small-minded bigots who would never buy anything with an Apple logo front-and-centre and because HP probably has better direct global distribution and penetration than Apple which means there will be countries that will now have the opportunity to get the iPod/iTMS experience. Just think how many developing nations exist where Macintosh is just a word you see on a website, but HP actually has a real office with real people.
2) See point 1: iPod big in UK, big in US, big in Canada, Australia: Not big in Austria (by all accounts) or other countries where Apple and Macintosh do not have a big presence. Apple is thinking globally here, so I wouldn't get your Calvins in a knot.
3) Where does it cut into Apple's margins? Apple will manufacture the HP unit and sell it to HP so that the latter has the opportunity to make a small amount of margin. HP benefit from having exclusive access to THE market-leading digital music solution which gives them the ability to sell a holistic solution to their consumer marketplace.
"The music service will be run in conjunction with an existing service like Musicmatch.com and compete with music stores from Apple Computer Inc. and Dell Inc. , HPShopping.com chief executive officer Peter Appl said in an interview Tuesday."
"Appl said the company had not yet decided the exact design of the product, adding that HP wants to be sure to set its digital music player apart from competitors."
Hee!
If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.
Remember as far as the concerns of brand dilution goes, iTunes will be iTunes, the iTMS wil be the iTMS, and these HPods will have an Apple logo on their screens (just not the case).
1. Point taken, but in the end, think of the core markets. . . . USA, Europe, Japan. What I fear we are seeing is a real limit on the ability to expand Apple sales, that HP will cannibalise Apple etc.
2. How did you know about my Calvins? Anyway, disagree strongly. This is Marketing 101. Market segmentation, building of a brand. The iPod brand is really important - it still has room to grow sure - but this means millions in its own right. If you have an iPod, which looks and sounds and feels like an iPod, but you call it something else, this really does result in dilution of the brand.
3. Duh, they have to split the profit!
Cheers!
There is a finite limit for Apple to get the product into the hands of consumers, defined by Apple's global market reach - which is defined, whether you like it or not, by the presence of a viable Macintosh market in a given territory, Apple's marketing spend, and the breadth and depth of Apple's reseller channel.
This deal gives Apple the following: -
The ability to reach markets where HP has a better market presence
The ability to reach individuals who think Apple is a fruit or a defunct record label
The ability to bulk sell significant six-figure volumes EVERY QUARTER to another company, who then has the responsibility of finding customers otherwise they take a hit
The ability to amortise fixed costs over a much larger base
Yes, they might have to share some profit!! But I suspect SPJ is a smarter guy than either you or I and has calculated that the long-term benefit of putting WMA to the sword is more important than a marginal loss of profit on a product which is making more sales and profit than anyone expected it to in the first place.
iPods will still be iPods, HP will call their unit something else, but rather like a Walkman or a FedEx, iPod is on the verge of becoming a free-standing brand. When people talk about their personal music player, they will refer to it as an iPod even when it isn't an iPod, and - seeing as there is only one unit that can be advertised as an iPod - where is the brand dilution?
Actually, HP are the losers in that equation, because there marketing dollars will go towards reinforcing the 'iPod' as a synonym for a digital music player in markets where Apple has a presence; as for the other markets, who gives a crap?
What I haven't seen mentioned here yet is the fact that with iTunes, i assume comes Quicktime. So not only will all the HPs come with iTunes but will come with Quicktime pre-installed. Would I be correct in assuming this?
Well, we'll have to see. My point was never that the whole thing is bad - it's more of a cost-benefit analysis. Does Apple gain enough to compensate for what it loses in brand dilution, profits, etc.
But to take up another of your points - I suspect that Steve is indeed a very bright guy, albeit one with occasional spectacular lapses of judgement! But putting WMA to the sword - indeed a worthy target. . . Thing is, we haven't seen much of this up to now - Apple's strategy has instead been very hardware oriented. It has not been about making money from ITMS or 'media' related sales, it's about shovelling hardware out the door with a nice premium.
However, a strong argument exists in the long term for Apple moving much more towards making money from media 'stuff', in which case, the strategy of linking with HP does make more sense. DRM is a big priority for M$oft, for a good reason. Bags of money in it in the future!
Quote:
Originally posted by Mark- Card Carrying FanaticRealist
There is a finite limit for Apple to get the product into the hands of consumers, defined by Apple's global market reach - which is defined, whether you like it or not, by the presence of a viable Macintosh market in a given territory, Apple's marketing spend, and the breadth and depth of Apple's reseller channel.
This deal gives Apple the following: -
The ability to reach markets where HP has a better market presence
The ability to reach individuals who think Apple is a fruit or a defunct record label
The ability to bulk sell significant six-figure volumes EVERY QUARTER to another company, who then has the responsibility of finding customers otherwise they take a hit
The ability to amortise fixed costs over a much larger base
Yes, they might have to share some profit!! But I suspect SPJ is a smarter guy than either you or I and has calculated that the long-term benefit of putting WMA to the sword is more important than a marginal loss of profit on a product which is making more sales and profit than anyone expected it to in the first place.
iPods will still be iPods, HP will call their unit something else, but rather like a Walkman or a FedEx, iPod is on the verge of becoming a free-standing brand. When people talk about their personal music player, they will refer to it as an iPod even when it isn't an iPod, and - seeing as there is only one unit that can be advertised as an iPod - where is the brand dilution?
Actually, HP are the losers in that equation, because there marketing dollars will go towards reinforcing the 'iPod' as a synonym for a digital music player in markets where Apple has a presence; as for the other markets, who gives a crap?
Ok, I am going to add another perspective/point to the discussion. What does this mean for us? I assume that seeing how these new HPods will be a functional clone of an iPod that we as Mac users should be able to use them, right? Now Apple may try and disable Mac support in the firmware/iTunes, but I don't really think they would. HP wouldn't sell them for the same prices as Apple does? Could HP start to break into the sub $200 market with 5GB and 10 GB models? I think that the idea of iPod as a platform is so much better than iPod as a singular product line from Apple. Sure HP will call it something else just like Dell calls their PCs Shitware or whatever they are called. But people will still recognize HPod as an iPod. Who else would be a possible buyer of the new iPod platform, Sony, mobile phone makers, or maybe traditional CE giants like Panasonic?
I think it's awesome (if not a little surprising) news! HP's marketing will help further Apple's domination of the digital music world!!! Exxxxcceeelllent...
Puts my fears to rest over Apple not going for the throat with iPod Mini pricing. Now they don't need lower cost mini pods to stamp out the WMA-based services/players (to ensure future iPod sales)! Getting iTunes & Quicktime on every HP machine is highly benficial in it's own right. Very cool.
As far as brand identity goes, I think if anything, its HP's brand that stands to get diluted not Apples. Apple's logo is going to pop up every time they start the thing hehe. And like someone said, iPod is on the verge of becoming a word like "kleenex" when people talk about music players. With this HP deal is becoming a platoform in its own right. No worries here.
Oh, I also want to say what a coup this was for Apple's PR. Today Bill Gates introduced MS's "vision" for the wired home at CES. But news.google.com tells me that the HPod story has 271 related stories, but Billy only got 141. The entire CES show is abuzz with the HPod story.
What I haven't seen mentioned here yet is the fact that with iTunes, i assume comes Quicktime. So not only will all the HPs come with iTunes but will come with Quicktime pre-installed. Would I be correct in assuming this?
Soon microsoft will join the game, wma is already default music standard on every pc with windows on it. most online music stores (even though they are small now, compared to itms) use wma. Microsoft will try to partner with many companies too, that's what they do, and they are big.
Apple is trying to guarantee themselves a leader position for years to come. Now there's their chance and they know it. This field can and will expand rapidly. itms is biggest one, but you have to plan ahead. Will apple loose some of mac sales? Perhaps, but rather unlikely, no one will buy a PC just because it comes with cheaper ipod. And apple still sells iPods, however you look at it.
ITMS gets big boost, and ipod with it.
Side note:
MacsRGood4U, Real networks is the weirdest service of their all. First of all they use AAC, why, its beyond me, there are no portable players capable of playing these files other than...... wait for it.... Tungsten from Palm. They want a piece of the pie, and just scrambling to get there, just like the rest of other guys.
2003 was great year for apple, 2004 is shaping to be even better. It feels like something finally moves, both hardware, software, music, enterprise, now clusters... cool!
Bill gets these visions, these crazy ideas where you're surrounded by gadgets, soon they will think for you.
Apple's different, they want people to use computers as creative tools, helping you be creative, have fun with them, make you do something which you weren't able to do so effortlessly before. Look at Smart Displays, tablets, all these 'visions' failed, their media center edition isn't catching up either.
MacsRGood4U, Real networks is the weirdest service of their all. First of all they use AAC, why, its beyond me, there are no portable players capable of playing these files other than...... wait for it.... Tungsten from Palm. They want a piece of the pie, and just scrambling to get there, just like the rest of other guys.
Not trying to be a nitpicker here, but the Nokia N-Gage Game deck/mobile phone also plays AAC. It even comes with AAC-encoding possibilities!
HP wouldn't sell them for the same prices as Apple does? Could HP start to break into the sub $200 market with 5GB and 10 GB models?
Reuters:
HP said that the player would be "priced competitively to other digital music players." But that allows for a broad range, with players costing from less than $100 to as much as $499 for Apple's top-of-the-line iPod.
But the HP players will likely be priced near Apple's iPods, which cost $249 to $499, Leigh said, to avoid cannibalizing Apple's own iPod sales.
HP said that the player would be "priced competitively to other digital music players." But that allows for a broad range, with players costing from less than $100 to as much as $499 for Apple's top-of-the-line iPod.
But the HP players will likely be priced near Apple's iPods, which cost $249 to $499, Leigh said, to avoid cannibalizing Apple's own iPod sales.
Right, the HPod 15, 20, and 40 GB's could go for similar prices to Apple's, but they could sell 5 and 10 GB HPods for less. Maybe $199 and $249 respectively? They can target the lower end of the market that Apple want's no part of.
Comments
Beginning this summer, the iTunes software and a desktop icon guiding users to the music site will be preloaded on HP Pavilion, Media Center and Compaq Presario desktop and notebook consumer PCs
[/B][/QUOTE]
thats the important part of this article!!
http://us.cnn.com/2003/TECH/biztech/...rd.music.reut/
"The music service will be run in conjunction with an existing service like Musicmatch.com and compete with music stores from Apple Computer Inc. and Dell Inc. , HPShopping.com chief executive officer Peter Appl said in an interview Tuesday."
"Appl said the company had not yet decided the exact design of the product, adding that HP wants to be sure to set its digital music player apart from competitors."
Hee!
2. How did you know about my Calvins? Anyway, disagree strongly. This is Marketing 101. Market segmentation, building of a brand. The iPod brand is really important - it still has room to grow sure - but this means millions in its own right. If you have an iPod, which looks and sounds and feels like an iPod, but you call it something else, this really does result in dilution of the brand.
3. Duh, they have to split the profit!
Cheers!
Originally posted by Mark- Card Carrying FanaticRealist
1) Not an almost identical iPod, it's a blue iPod with the same controls that boots with an Apple logo. Why? Because there are a whole bunch of small-minded bigots who would never buy anything with an Apple logo front-and-centre and because HP probably has better direct global distribution and penetration than Apple which means there will be countries that will now have the opportunity to get the iPod/iTMS experience. Just think how many developing nations exist where Macintosh is just a word you see on a website, but HP actually has a real office with real people.
2) See point 1: iPod big in UK, big in US, big in Canada, Australia: Not big in Austria (by all accounts) or other countries where Apple and Macintosh do not have a big presence. Apple is thinking globally here, so I wouldn't get your Calvins in a knot.
3) Where does it cut into Apple's margins? Apple will manufacture the HP unit and sell it to HP so that the latter has the opportunity to make a small amount of margin. HP benefit from having exclusive access to THE market-leading digital music solution which gives them the ability to sell a holistic solution to their consumer marketplace.
Originally posted by Eugene
Remember this??
http://us.cnn.com/2003/TECH/biztech/...rd.music.reut/
"The music service will be run in conjunction with an existing service like Musicmatch.com and compete with music stores from Apple Computer Inc. and Dell Inc. , HPShopping.com chief executive officer Peter Appl said in an interview Tuesday."
"Appl said the company had not yet decided the exact design of the product, adding that HP wants to be sure to set its digital music player apart from competitors."
Hee!
If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.
Remember as far as the concerns of brand dilution goes, iTunes will be iTunes, the iTMS wil be the iTMS, and these HPods will have an Apple logo on their screens (just not the case).
Originally posted by kumrabai
1. Point taken, but in the end, think of the core markets. . . . USA, Europe, Japan. What I fear we are seeing is a real limit on the ability to expand Apple sales, that HP will cannibalise Apple etc.
2. How did you know about my Calvins? Anyway, disagree strongly. This is Marketing 101. Market segmentation, building of a brand. The iPod brand is really important - it still has room to grow sure - but this means millions in its own right. If you have an iPod, which looks and sounds and feels like an iPod, but you call it something else, this really does result in dilution of the brand.
3. Duh, they have to split the profit!
Cheers!
There is a finite limit for Apple to get the product into the hands of consumers, defined by Apple's global market reach - which is defined, whether you like it or not, by the presence of a viable Macintosh market in a given territory, Apple's marketing spend, and the breadth and depth of Apple's reseller channel.
This deal gives Apple the following: -
The ability to reach markets where HP has a better market presence
The ability to reach individuals who think Apple is a fruit or a defunct record label
The ability to bulk sell significant six-figure volumes EVERY QUARTER to another company, who then has the responsibility of finding customers otherwise they take a hit
The ability to amortise fixed costs over a much larger base
Yes, they might have to share some profit!! But I suspect SPJ is a smarter guy than either you or I and has calculated that the long-term benefit of putting WMA to the sword is more important than a marginal loss of profit on a product which is making more sales and profit than anyone expected it to in the first place.
iPods will still be iPods, HP will call their unit something else, but rather like a Walkman or a FedEx, iPod is on the verge of becoming a free-standing brand. When people talk about their personal music player, they will refer to it as an iPod even when it isn't an iPod, and - seeing as there is only one unit that can be advertised as an iPod - where is the brand dilution?
Actually, HP are the losers in that equation, because there marketing dollars will go towards reinforcing the 'iPod' as a synonym for a digital music player in markets where Apple has a presence; as for the other markets, who gives a crap?
Originally posted by CosmoNut
Is it safe to say that the Windows version of the iPod would go away when this takes effect?
no, not until there are more companies doing the same thing....
but i HOPE that would be the eventual goal...
imagine not having to support windows anymore!!!
but realistically I don't see this happening...
But to take up another of your points - I suspect that Steve is indeed a very bright guy, albeit one with occasional spectacular lapses of judgement! But putting WMA to the sword - indeed a worthy target. . . Thing is, we haven't seen much of this up to now - Apple's strategy has instead been very hardware oriented. It has not been about making money from ITMS or 'media' related sales, it's about shovelling hardware out the door with a nice premium.
However, a strong argument exists in the long term for Apple moving much more towards making money from media 'stuff', in which case, the strategy of linking with HP does make more sense. DRM is a big priority for M$oft, for a good reason. Bags of money in it in the future!
Originally posted by Mark- Card Carrying FanaticRealist
There is a finite limit for Apple to get the product into the hands of consumers, defined by Apple's global market reach - which is defined, whether you like it or not, by the presence of a viable Macintosh market in a given territory, Apple's marketing spend, and the breadth and depth of Apple's reseller channel.
This deal gives Apple the following: -
The ability to reach markets where HP has a better market presence
The ability to reach individuals who think Apple is a fruit or a defunct record label
The ability to bulk sell significant six-figure volumes EVERY QUARTER to another company, who then has the responsibility of finding customers otherwise they take a hit
The ability to amortise fixed costs over a much larger base
Yes, they might have to share some profit!! But I suspect SPJ is a smarter guy than either you or I and has calculated that the long-term benefit of putting WMA to the sword is more important than a marginal loss of profit on a product which is making more sales and profit than anyone expected it to in the first place.
iPods will still be iPods, HP will call their unit something else, but rather like a Walkman or a FedEx, iPod is on the verge of becoming a free-standing brand. When people talk about their personal music player, they will refer to it as an iPod even when it isn't an iPod, and - seeing as there is only one unit that can be advertised as an iPod - where is the brand dilution?
Actually, HP are the losers in that equation, because there marketing dollars will go towards reinforcing the 'iPod' as a synonym for a digital music player in markets where Apple has a presence; as for the other markets, who gives a crap?
Puts my fears to rest over Apple not going for the throat with iPod Mini pricing. Now they don't need lower cost mini pods to stamp out the WMA-based services/players (to ensure future iPod sales)! Getting iTunes & Quicktime on every HP machine is highly benficial in it's own right. Very cool.
As far as brand identity goes, I think if anything, its HP's brand that stands to get diluted not Apples. Apple's logo is going to pop up every time they start the thing hehe. And like someone said, iPod is on the verge of becoming a word like "kleenex" when people talk about music players. With this HP deal is becoming a platoform in its own right. No worries here.
Originally posted by Dogcow
What I haven't seen mentioned here yet is the fact that with iTunes, i assume comes Quicktime. So not only will all the HPs come with iTunes but will come with Quicktime pre-installed. Would I be correct in assuming this?
yep and this is BIG news
Soon microsoft will join the game, wma is already default music standard on every pc with windows on it. most online music stores (even though they are small now, compared to itms) use wma. Microsoft will try to partner with many companies too, that's what they do, and they are big.
Apple is trying to guarantee themselves a leader position for years to come. Now there's their chance and they know it. This field can and will expand rapidly. itms is biggest one, but you have to plan ahead. Will apple loose some of mac sales? Perhaps, but rather unlikely, no one will buy a PC just because it comes with cheaper ipod. And apple still sells iPods, however you look at it.
ITMS gets big boost, and ipod with it.
Side note:
MacsRGood4U, Real networks is the weirdest service of their all. First of all they use AAC, why, its beyond me, there are no portable players capable of playing these files other than...... wait for it.... Tungsten from Palm. They want a piece of the pie, and just scrambling to get there, just like the rest of other guys.
2003 was great year for apple, 2004 is shaping to be even better. It feels like something finally moves, both hardware, software, music, enterprise, now clusters... cool!
Bill gets these visions, these crazy ideas where you're surrounded by gadgets, soon they will think for you.
Apple's different, they want people to use computers as creative tools, helping you be creative, have fun with them, make you do something which you weren't able to do so effortlessly before. Look at Smart Displays, tablets, all these 'visions' failed, their media center edition isn't catching up either.
Originally posted by piwozniak
Side note:
MacsRGood4U, Real networks is the weirdest service of their all. First of all they use AAC, why, its beyond me, there are no portable players capable of playing these files other than...... wait for it.... Tungsten from Palm. They want a piece of the pie, and just scrambling to get there, just like the rest of other guys.
Not trying to be a nitpicker here, but the Nokia N-Gage Game deck/mobile phone also plays AAC. It even comes with AAC-encoding possibilities!
Other than that, I can only say WOW!
This is the best news from Apple since like....
GarageBand
Originally posted by HOM
HP wouldn't sell them for the same prices as Apple does? Could HP start to break into the sub $200 market with 5GB and 10 GB models?
Reuters:
HP said that the player would be "priced competitively to other digital music players." But that allows for a broad range, with players costing from less than $100 to as much as $499 for Apple's top-of-the-line iPod.
But the HP players will likely be priced near Apple's iPods, which cost $249 to $499, Leigh said, to avoid cannibalizing Apple's own iPod sales.
Article here.
Originally posted by MiMac
Reuters:
HP said that the player would be "priced competitively to other digital music players." But that allows for a broad range, with players costing from less than $100 to as much as $499 for Apple's top-of-the-line iPod.
But the HP players will likely be priced near Apple's iPods, which cost $249 to $499, Leigh said, to avoid cannibalizing Apple's own iPod sales.
Article here.
Right, the HPod 15, 20, and 40 GB's could go for similar prices to Apple's, but they could sell 5 and 10 GB HPods for less. Maybe $199 and $249 respectively? They can target the lower end of the market that Apple want's no part of.