I am floored by this news. Jobs pulled a one way, exclusive deal for the iPod with HP while keeping total control of his baby. I cannot stop smiling. He is a master negotiator indeed. Not that both companies are not helped by this deal, I believe it is great on both ends. This move must encourage AAPL up, at least, a little bit. If not, I'll be surprised and disappointed over it. It shows Apple extending its hold within a market that it holds the leadership position already. It promotes the AAC format. WOW... I could go on and on, but everyone seems to get the implications.
How can this deal help Apple's Macintosh platform? Anything helping the company will help the Macintosh, at least, to continue to exist. It places the "trojan horse" in MANY more hands. This deal will expose many people to Apple who may have forgotten the company or considered it a has-been. WOW... This gadget is great! Who makes it? Who makes the software that works so seemless and perfect with this beautiful lil device? Apple? What else do they make?
I mean come on... How did you guys find Apple? A friend? TV? School? Work? Regardless of where or who, you saw something that caught your attention, and you were hooked by it. Right?
Remember as far as the concerns of brand dilution goes, iTunes will be iTunes, the iTMS wil be the iTMS, and these HPods will have an Apple logo on their screens (just not the case).
Apparently the deal was inked as late as Wednesday?? That's a rushed announcement if I ever heard one, especially if they plan to unveil it this summer. I guess they already have designs ready, because they don't have much time to build these things!
"Windows is about choice, you can mix and match all of this stuff," said David Fester, general manager of Microsoft's Windows digital media division. "We believe you should have the same choice when it comes to music services."
LOL. What choice, sir? Windows Media, sir? What else plays out of the box in Windows? The same single choice? What about the choice between AAC and WMA??? What about putting WM-DRM support into the Mac client, bub?
Quote:
Dell, the leading seller of Windows-based computers, also suggested that Hewlett was making a mistake. "We expect competition and it's good for customers,'' a Dell spokesman said. "Over time, however, customers will want industry standard choices.''
ROFL. Why doesn't he just say, "Microsoft should be given Carte Blanche with respect to creating technology 'standards.'"
Why is she a slut? I take serious offense to that remark and believe you are simply misogynist. Compared to other (male) CEO's, she seems to be an extremely good businessperson.
Bitch pros: In the literal sense, it does not indicate behavior.
Bitch cons: Dog
Also, you go on about how Heaton is a 'horrible person' because she is a social conservative, and that doesn't jive with your own liberal views. Oh, and you did color "bitch" with "ugly." Because your rant includes your reasoning, it is even more insipid compared to the cool gut's equivalent of a drive-by. Premeditated vs. heat of the moment.
HP made this deal because they're desperate. They can see that this digital music thang is the next best thing after sliced bread but they don't have any options themselves.
Build a music player themselves? Lots of dollars and they still can't produce something as good, integrated and pretty as the iPod.
My bet is that they came to Apple on their bleeding knees pleading with his Steveness to allow them to rebrand the iPod. Steve held all the trumps in that little game and was probably able to dictate the conditions.
Our logo, our software, our conditions or no deal. You are free to take it up with Dell if you want. mwuuaaahhahahaha. HP DJ indeed.
Apple gets a new distro channel with a VERY big world-wide presence. iPods get into shops and catalogues where they would have never shown up otherwise - partly because of the way Apple handles their licensed dealer network - and the Windoze crowd will suddenly come around to the fact that this thing IS the kewlest gadget in any silicon alley in any city in the world. Get them bundled with HP Pavillions or Comqraps.
It's all about exposure in the marketplace and any amount of advertising on bus shelters and billboards isn't going to get them sold if people don't know where to get one. Having them displayed in all the HP outlets around the world will have them flying over the counter much better than having people go to some Apple Boutique. If you want to buy a television you don't start at the Bang & Olufsen gallery. You go to TVs-R-US or something. Same deal with the iPod.
Will it sell more Macs? Maybe. Possibly not. I think it will though. People getting their hands on an HPod, iTunes and ITMS will see the seamless slickness and start wondering if the rest of the Apple products are as good as that.
HP had been doing work on both a player and download site for a long time. According to CEO Carly Fiorina, they decided to scrap plans when they saw how well iTMS and the iPod were selling, particularly in the last quarter. In a marathon meeting on Wednesday night with Steve Jobs, the agreement was hammered out. Microsoft says it's a big mistake for HP to use a "closed system". They complain it is not the "standard". Being a monopolistic company they never use the word "choice". They claim it will confuse HP's customers. Ah, the smell of sour grapes.
Dell, according to one article, is somewhat upset by the announcement as well. I wonder if another PC maker may join the iTunes/iTMS/iPOD bandwagon. Possibly Gateway? (Just a thought)
P.S. HP is not calling the player "iPod". This deal is really a coup for iTunes and iTMS.
Apple now will have iTunes and iTMS on every consumer computer that HP makes. That means the 2nd (or 1st) PC maker will be promoting those products. How can that be bad? Apple making a version of the iPod for HP is really only a small part of the deal. The BIG DEAL is that HP is backing iTunes and iTMS. For the first time Apple will have a product bundled on a PeeCee.
One other thing. This deal doesn't hit the streets until the summer. I suspect there will be upgrades of the iPod and even iTunes/iTMS by then. Lower prices and probably higher capacity are surely coming on the player. What variation of the iPod that Apple makes for HP will be interesting. We know it will be HP Blue. It will not be the mini.
I'm still not getting how this is *better* for Apple than if they hadn't done it. At most it seems like 6 of one, half a dozen of the other.
Well, let's start with HP has what it terms "capabilities" in 178 countries globally, whereas Apple probably only has direct control of operations in maybe 25% to 33% of that number and a significant market presence in even fewer.
Apple now will have iTunes and iTMS on every consumer computer that HP makes. That means the 2nd (or 1st) PC maker will be promoting those products. How can that be bad? Apple making a version of the iPod for HP is really only a small part of the deal. The BIG DEAL is that HP is backing iTunes and iTMS. For the first time Apple will have a product bundled on a PeeCee.
No, no, no, no. iTunes is not a source of profit for Apple. The iPod is. Getting iTunes on every PC is great and a huge bonus, but HP is going to move hundreds of thousands of the HPods a quarter. They are going to get the HPod into areas that Apple wouldn't be allowed. So if that costs Apple $20 or profit per iPod it is more than made up for in volume. Think about every PC user that doesn't buy an iPod because it's an Apple product. Now they can get the same thing but from a company that they trust. Between iPod, iPod mini, and HPods I would be shocked if Apple doesn't push 1.5 million a quarter.
I'm still not getting how this is *better* for Apple than if they hadn't done it. At most it seems like 6 of one, half a dozen of the other.
Even though iTMS is the current leader in this emerging Digital Music world, the WMA format based services/devices are trying to catch up. In order for Apple to continue selling iPods and remain the Digital Music leader, they need to establish the AAC format as the defacto standard and not allow MS to get a foothold with their WMA format. In addition to whatever profit they make off these HPods, having a big PC manufacturer peddle iTMS to the PC masses is really going to help Apple's cause. Suddenly Apples iTMS marketshare isn't just limited to the Mac-using 5% and Windows-using iPod owners out there. Also has a side benefit in the media player wars getting QT installed as well.
yes... but contrary to popular belief iTunes is the trojan horse... not the iPod...
having iTunes installed from the start means that the end user WILL use it from the start over media player to rip CDs... that is a coup...
I don't know how many friends of mine had half their collection (OR MORE) stuck in that god-awful format with no way to transfer it...
they had to RE-RIP all their CDs...
there is a way to not deal with WMAs for free on windows... but most people have to download it... its apple's software...
Combine that with the fact that they can put ads for GarageBand in the iTMS without being too tacky about it...
CHECKMATE (or at least the endgame... apple can still **** this up...)...
Couldn't agree more. One thing, in iTunes 4 the default encoder is AAC 128. Doesn't this strike people as Microsoftian? How is this any different than MS making WMA the default encoder? Methinks Apple should make MP3 the default again. Buying songs from iTMS should be enough to get people to stay with the iPod/iTunes combo.
You're only guessing on the proift to Apple for the iPod. It will be more then $20, believe me. Also iTunes is the direct route to iTMS. iTMS will break even by the end of the year and start showing a profit next year. This is one way to make sure that iTMS becomes the pre-eminent download service. Apple didn't get into the download music business JUST to sell iPods and to lose money on the venture. Apple's not that stupid. In fact the "we're not making money" line came from an early interview with SJ when iTMS first started up. He said that it was not making money "at this time".
Analysts said that Apple' opening of brick and mortar stores was a washout and was really to promote the product. NO. Apple will be making a profit on the stores. It hasn't come as quickly because of the downturn in the economy.
In about 6 months, Microsoft is going to launch its own music site and range of personal players. while we all know that they will lack any semblance of the elegance, ease of use, and transparency of the iPod, one fact remains: They will leverage the windows media player that is bundled as 'part of windows' to wrestle control of the market from Apple.
Apple must have been aware for some time that there is no way that even through superior quality, they would be able to win this battle. Finally, after years of sticking to it's guns, Apple has woken up, and taken pragmatic, and tangible measures to ensure that it is able to off-set that legendary MS leverage, and maintain market share. From this summer onwards, 25% of all PC's sold, will be sold with iTunes on them. That is huge, and all apathetic comments aside, must be a huge thorn in MS' side.
This really is a first on many fronts, both for Apple, in terms of displaying a new-found realization that you can build the best product in the world, but if it is not in the hands of as many people as possible; so what. It is also huge on the part of HP, who has thus-far been in bed solely with MS (save for a minor fling with Linux)and is now trying to turn from that strategy as a means to prevailing over it's mortal enemies in the space, Dell and IBM.
This announcement will have reverberations that go far beyond what music player/store becomes the industry standard; it could fracture and alter the PC/home entertainment landscape for years to come.
Comments
How can this deal help Apple's Macintosh platform? Anything helping the company will help the Macintosh, at least, to continue to exist. It places the "trojan horse" in MANY more hands. This deal will expose many people to Apple who may have forgotten the company or considered it a has-been. WOW... This gadget is great! Who makes it? Who makes the software that works so seemless and perfect with this beautiful lil device? Apple? What else do they make?
I mean come on... How did you guys find Apple? A friend? TV? School? Work? Regardless of where or who, you saw something that caught your attention, and you were hooked by it. Right?
Originally posted by BuonRotto
If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.
Remember as far as the concerns of brand dilution goes, iTunes will be iTunes, the iTMS wil be the iTMS, and these HPods will have an Apple logo on their screens (just not the case).
Apparently the deal was inked as late as Wednesday?? That's a rushed announcement if I ever heard one, especially if they plan to unveil it this summer. I guess they already have designs ready, because they don't have much time to build these things!
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/09/business/09music.html
"Windows is about choice, you can mix and match all of this stuff," said David Fester, general manager of Microsoft's Windows digital media division. "We believe you should have the same choice when it comes to music services."
LOL. What choice, sir? Windows Media, sir? What else plays out of the box in Windows? The same single choice? What about the choice between AAC and WMA??? What about putting WM-DRM support into the Mac client, bub?
Dell, the leading seller of Windows-based computers, also suggested that Hewlett was making a mistake. "We expect competition and it's good for customers,'' a Dell spokesman said. "Over time, however, customers will want industry standard choices.''
ROFL. Why doesn't he just say, "Microsoft should be given Carte Blanche with respect to creating technology 'standards.'"
Originally posted by tonton
Why is she a slut? I take serious offense to that remark and believe you are simply misogynist. Compared to other (male) CEO's, she seems to be an extremely good businessperson.
Tsk tsk.
This is the part where the kettle ****s the pot in the ass.
Dee-double Standard... Why am I not surprised, tonton?
P.S. Yay for photographic memories.
Originally posted by tonton
There's a big difference between "slut" and "bitch". If he had called her a bitch I wouldn't have objected. My mom's a bitch, but I love her anyway.
What's her phone number? I'll ask her if she prefers being called a slut or a bitch.
It's highly philosophical.
Slut pros: Human
Slut cons: Behavior
Bitch pros: In the literal sense, it does not indicate behavior.
Bitch cons: Dog
Also, you go on about how Heaton is a 'horrible person' because she is a social conservative, and that doesn't jive with your own liberal views. Oh, and you did color "bitch" with "ugly." Because your rant includes your reasoning, it is even more insipid compared to the cool gut's equivalent of a drive-by. Premeditated vs. heat of the moment.
Build a music player themselves? Lots of dollars and they still can't produce something as good, integrated and pretty as the iPod.
My bet is that they came to Apple on their bleeding knees pleading with his Steveness to allow them to rebrand the iPod. Steve held all the trumps in that little game and was probably able to dictate the conditions.
Our logo, our software, our conditions or no deal. You are free to take it up with Dell if you want. mwuuaaahhahahaha. HP DJ indeed.
Apple gets a new distro channel with a VERY big world-wide presence. iPods get into shops and catalogues where they would have never shown up otherwise - partly because of the way Apple handles their licensed dealer network - and the Windoze crowd will suddenly come around to the fact that this thing IS the kewlest gadget in any silicon alley in any city in the world. Get them bundled with HP Pavillions or Comqraps.
It's all about exposure in the marketplace and any amount of advertising on bus shelters and billboards isn't going to get them sold if people don't know where to get one. Having them displayed in all the HP outlets around the world will have them flying over the counter much better than having people go to some Apple Boutique. If you want to buy a television you don't start at the Bang & Olufsen gallery. You go to TVs-R-US or something. Same deal with the iPod.
Will it sell more Macs? Maybe. Possibly not. I think it will though. People getting their hands on an HPod, iTunes and ITMS will see the seamless slickness and start wondering if the rest of the Apple products are as good as that.
We all know that they are.
Since I know spend my workday writing (overtime), I have to adopt a new, succinct posting style:
Fvcking big, Apple, fvcking big!
Dell, according to one article, is somewhat upset by the announcement as well. I wonder if another PC maker may join the iTunes/iTMS/iPOD bandwagon. Possibly Gateway? (Just a thought)
P.S. HP is not calling the player "iPod". This deal is really a coup for iTunes and iTMS.
Apple now will have iTunes and iTMS on every consumer computer that HP makes. That means the 2nd (or 1st) PC maker will be promoting those products. How can that be bad? Apple making a version of the iPod for HP is really only a small part of the deal. The BIG DEAL is that HP is backing iTunes and iTMS. For the first time Apple will have a product bundled on a PeeCee.
One other thing. This deal doesn't hit the streets until the summer. I suspect there will be upgrades of the iPod and even iTunes/iTMS by then. Lower prices and probably higher capacity are surely coming on the player. What variation of the iPod that Apple makes for HP will be interesting. We know it will be HP Blue. It will not be the mini.
Originally posted by CosmoNut
I'm still not getting how this is *better* for Apple than if they hadn't done it. At most it seems like 6 of one, half a dozen of the other.
Well, let's start with HP has what it terms "capabilities" in 178 countries globally, whereas Apple probably only has direct control of operations in maybe 25% to 33% of that number and a significant market presence in even fewer.
Originally posted by MacsRGood4U
Cosmonut:
Apple now will have iTunes and iTMS on every consumer computer that HP makes. That means the 2nd (or 1st) PC maker will be promoting those products. How can that be bad? Apple making a version of the iPod for HP is really only a small part of the deal. The BIG DEAL is that HP is backing iTunes and iTMS. For the first time Apple will have a product bundled on a PeeCee.
No, no, no, no. iTunes is not a source of profit for Apple. The iPod is. Getting iTunes on every PC is great and a huge bonus, but HP is going to move hundreds of thousands of the HPods a quarter. They are going to get the HPod into areas that Apple wouldn't be allowed. So if that costs Apple $20 or profit per iPod it is more than made up for in volume. Think about every PC user that doesn't buy an iPod because it's an Apple product. Now they can get the same thing but from a company that they trust. Between iPod, iPod mini, and HPods I would be shocked if Apple doesn't push 1.5 million a quarter.
Originally posted by M.O.S.T
Are we sure this deal is with both Compaq-in-trash and HP? or JUST HP?
I think the next big thing would be if Apple found a way to make the MP3-Hard Drive - If you all the parts yourself = EVEN MORE PROFIT
Erm... Compaq is HP.
Edit: Woops... I thought I was at the end of the thread, only to find I was at the end of Page two. Sorry.
Originally posted by CosmoNut
I'm still not getting how this is *better* for Apple than if they hadn't done it. At most it seems like 6 of one, half a dozen of the other.
Even though iTMS is the current leader in this emerging Digital Music world, the WMA format based services/devices are trying to catch up. In order for Apple to continue selling iPods and remain the Digital Music leader, they need to establish the AAC format as the defacto standard and not allow MS to get a foothold with their WMA format. In addition to whatever profit they make off these HPods, having a big PC manufacturer peddle iTMS to the PC masses is really going to help Apple's cause. Suddenly Apples iTMS marketshare isn't just limited to the Mac-using 5% and Windows-using iPod owners out there. Also has a side benefit in the media player wars getting QT installed as well.
Originally posted by HOM
No, no, no, no. iTunes is not a source of profit for Apple.
yes... but contrary to popular belief iTunes is the trojan horse... not the iPod...
having iTunes installed from the start means that the end user WILL use it from the start over media player to rip CDs... that is a coup...
I don't know how many friends of mine had half their collection (OR MORE) stuck in that god-awful format with no way to transfer it...
they had to RE-RIP all their CDs...
there is a way to not deal with WMAs for free on windows... but most people have to download it... its apple's software...
Combine that with the fact that they can put ads for GarageBand in the iTMS without being too tacky about it...
CHECKMATE (or at least the endgame... apple can still **** this up...)...
Originally posted by Paul
yes... but contrary to popular belief iTunes is the trojan horse... not the iPod...
having iTunes installed from the start means that the end user WILL use it from the start over media player to rip CDs... that is a coup...
I don't know how many friends of mine had half their collection (OR MORE) stuck in that god-awful format with no way to transfer it...
they had to RE-RIP all their CDs...
there is a way to not deal with WMAs for free on windows... but most people have to download it... its apple's software...
Combine that with the fact that they can put ads for GarageBand in the iTMS without being too tacky about it...
CHECKMATE (or at least the endgame... apple can still **** this up...)...
Couldn't agree more. One thing, in iTunes 4 the default encoder is AAC 128. Doesn't this strike people as Microsoftian? How is this any different than MS making WMA the default encoder? Methinks Apple should make MP3 the default again. Buying songs from iTMS should be enough to get people to stay with the iPod/iTunes combo.
You're only guessing on the proift to Apple for the iPod. It will be more then $20, believe me. Also iTunes is the direct route to iTMS. iTMS will break even by the end of the year and start showing a profit next year. This is one way to make sure that iTMS becomes the pre-eminent download service. Apple didn't get into the download music business JUST to sell iPods and to lose money on the venture. Apple's not that stupid. In fact the "we're not making money" line came from an early interview with SJ when iTMS first started up. He said that it was not making money "at this time".
Analysts said that Apple' opening of brick and mortar stores was a washout and was really to promote the product. NO. Apple will be making a profit on the stores. It hasn't come as quickly because of the downturn in the economy.
In about 6 months, Microsoft is going to launch its own music site and range of personal players. while we all know that they will lack any semblance of the elegance, ease of use, and transparency of the iPod, one fact remains: They will leverage the windows media player that is bundled as 'part of windows' to wrestle control of the market from Apple.
Apple must have been aware for some time that there is no way that even through superior quality, they would be able to win this battle. Finally, after years of sticking to it's guns, Apple has woken up, and taken pragmatic, and tangible measures to ensure that it is able to off-set that legendary MS leverage, and maintain market share. From this summer onwards, 25% of all PC's sold, will be sold with iTunes on them. That is huge, and all apathetic comments aside, must be a huge thorn in MS' side.
This really is a first on many fronts, both for Apple, in terms of displaying a new-found realization that you can build the best product in the world, but if it is not in the hands of as many people as possible; so what. It is also huge on the part of HP, who has thus-far been in bed solely with MS (save for a minor fling with Linux)and is now trying to turn from that strategy as a means to prevailing over it's mortal enemies in the space, Dell and IBM.
This announcement will have reverberations that go far beyond what music player/store becomes the industry standard; it could fracture and alter the PC/home entertainment landscape for years to come.
Very exciting indeed, if nothing else...