If you put it that way, we have no tangible proof that IBM is able to fab 90nm 970fx's at any clockspeed. The blade, and the Xserve G5, are paper releases.
Okay, fine Mr. Smarmy.
They have acknowledged and published specs (and are selling machines today -- later delivery) on 90nm at 2.0 GHz. We haven't heard from the inside (that I am aware of) that IBM is fabbing faster 970's.
My whole point is this: why are people jumping all over Apple about not releasing new machines? We don't even know that they have new machines ready to be produced.
It is funny (it always happens on various forums) how people believe the guesses we all make and bank on it: "Well, new Powermacs didn't come out. Stupid Apple, I'm buying a Dell."
We may not see new machines until we hit 3GHz. I hope not, but, it seems more likely as time passes.
I know that it's the Future Hardware equivalent of trying to read tea leaves, but shipping times for the dual G5s at the Apple Store went from "Same Day" on Friday to "1-3 Days" today.
I know that it's the Future Hardware equivalent of trying to read tea leaves, but shipping times for the dual G5s at the Apple Store went from "Same Day" on Friday to "1-3 Days" today.
Also, the refurbed dual machines have gone MIA.
Could mean something for G5's, who knows, but if it does, then what does it mean that all of the eMac's and iMac's still show same day shipping.
Maybe... it's 10th of Feb 2004, or 02/10/04, if you order the numbers a little different you get: 0124 and at the end you put one of the remaining zeros on top of the other and add the a number 4 at the end.. puh... and then, voilá: 012484 - the holy date
I think the point atomicham is trying to make is that whilst Apple have announced 2ghx xServer on 90nm, they are the first 90nm chips. I must say it seems a little odd that the move to 90nm doesn't result in a speed increase over the top end 130nm process. Clearly we don't know if they are sandbagging orif that is the best they can do right now.
Either way, I think we all thought that the first G5 speed bump would have happened by now. SJ gave us a 12 month time frame for a 1ghz jump, it is difficult to believe that Apple is going to do it in one leap.
You can't compare the top speed they are putting in the Xserve to the top speed they could put in a PowerMac. Those are two completely different animals. The best indicator we have is the power output of the G5 Xserve -- 24.5W @ 2 GHz leaves plenty of headroom for the PowerMac G5 case, which we already know can support dual ~75W chips. They could use the existing memory controller and keep the 1 GHz bus speed with a 3:1 ratio... but I suspect they're trying for better. The real question is what are they going to do for RAM.
Believe it or not, I think they might do the 1 GHz jump all at once. Since the 90nm chips are shipping this month it could be any time between now and August.
I'd have to agree that comparing Xserve to Powermac is apple vs. orange. Apple has always kept the powermac slightly faster then the Xserve. I find it extremely hard to swallow that apple is going to do a 1ghz jump. No one in history has done a jump that intense... such as 33mhz to 100mhz. Apple does HAVE to release periodically updates even if they are minor updates... thats the only way to keep Investors content with their stocks. If Apple didn't update for a whole year that would definitely be a stock I wouldn't want my money riding in. This is why the powerbook line has got such moderate updates in the last 18 months.
Could you imagine investing in a company. Their sales slide a bit because a product's strong sales point always fades. Then they won't release the next update for another year. When that update comes... it sux? You just lost a bunch of money.
This is speculation of course but its another point of why apple has to release something. My bet is still this week till mid march.
Believe it or not, I think they might do the 1 GHz jump all at once. Since the 90nm chips are shipping this month it could be any time between now and August. [/B]
It would not be wise to do a 50% frequency-increase all at once one year after the rev. A (the "no rev.") release (my personal opinion). First of all, the sale will drop or even stop during the summer-months. Perhaps due to the rumor-mills. Secondly, Apple need to be in the game against Intel and AMD. In April, Intel will release 3.6Ghz "Prescott" (I know - hotter and slower i real-world tests) and also AMD will release some new CPUs. The PC-world mostly met the "fastest PC"-words from SJ with a huge LOL. It created a lot of debate for a couple of weeks, but now it all forgotten. I can imagine what the reaction will be if SJ once again announces the worlds fastest PC...
Apple will be careful not to up the Xserve speed before the PowerMac because that may cause buyers to hold up on the G5 purchases anticipating a new PowerMac around the corner. Another factor to keep in mind is that Apple needs to protect their Qtr to Qtr margins and sales. So exhausting their current inventory first then releasing the new Macs will force Apple to fill their inventory with at least 4 weeks worth of computers. (They target a 4 week inventory.) By now, the current PowerMac inventory should be close to depletion, which means that Apple has been producing the new PMG5 and filling their channels with it before the official release.
I suspect that we will get the new PM next week (Maybe topping off at 2.6 GHz). That means we should see 3GHz+ models shipping by the end of August. Exactly one year after the Dual G5 at 2GHz starting shipping. This is putting the PM on a 6 Month cycle. Now that is pretty cool and next Jan/Feb 2005 should see us approaching 4GHz, in line with IBM's rumored 975/980 schedule.
I tend to agree that as time goes it looks likely that Apple/IBM will reach the 3 gig mark in one go. And if that is mid-March that puts Apple firmly ahead of their promise.
And, IBM did over deliver last time. 2 gig over the expected 1.8.
I hope so. The 0.09 process seems to be favouring PPC over x86.
Ask Intel.
The 970fx seems to be much smaller, much cooler and plenty of latitude to clock higher without causing a nuclear meltdown (Hi, Prescott...)
The heat figures for the new 970fx at 2 gig seem very impressive. Suggesting much higher clock speeds might not be the problem for IBM that they are for Intel.
It would be a stunning coupe if IBM could deliver 2.6-3.2 gig PPCs just as Prescott and the Pentium 4/5 stalls on the 0.09 process!!!
I'm not betting against it.
The rumours of Apple big wigs saying the rumour folks were way behind on Apple's progress with the G5 Rev B seems to suggest we could be in for a shock. If it's anything like the over delivery of the G5 rev a then I could be getting the wallet out...
The rumours of Apple big wigs saying the rumour folks were way behind on Apple's progress with the G5 Rev B seems to suggest we could be in for a shock. If it's anything like the over delivery of the G5 rev a then I could be getting the wallet out... Lemon Bon Bon
Link?!?!
I'm quite upset with myself since I'm usually up on all the latest in rumor news postings...
I tend to agree that as time goes it looks likely that Apple/IBM will reach the 3 gig mark in one go.
It also may be a better marketing move to have a big jump rather than smaller incremental ones. The tech press would jump on that story. Me thinks a 3ghz G5 would even impress the most jaded PC journalist.
The sooner, the better... However, I'll stop being an optimist regarding new Power Macs. I'll rather look forward to an dual 2.2Ghz release 26th of March and get a happy surprise IF something better shows up then or earlier. It would be a good PR-trick to announce 3 Ghz now, but it should be announced when a lot of people are paying attention (MW expo etc) and it should be properly tested - not being rushed out on the marked.
The sooner, the better... However, I'll stop being an optimist regarding new Power Macs. I'll rather look forward to an dual 2.2Ghz release 26th of March and get a happy surprise IF something better shows up then or earlier. It would be a good PR-trick to announce 3 Ghz now, but it should be announced when a lot of people are paying attention (MW expo etc) and it should be properly tested - not being rushed out on the marked.
it doesnt need to be tested b/c its already in the xserves, so processor issues will already be straightened out. here's hoping for tomorrow!
I'd have to agree that comparing Xserve to Powermac is apple vs. orange. Apple has always kept the powermac slightly faster then the Xserve. I find it extremely hard to swallow that apple is going to do a 1ghz jump. No one in history has done a jump that intense... such as 33mhz to 100mhz
know your history and math
a 1Ghz jump from a 2Ghz G5 to a 3 Ghz G5 is like from 66-100Mhz a clockspeed increase of 50%
apple did even more in 1994:
they jumped from the 40Mhz macintosh quadra 840AV to the 80Mhz power macintosh 8100. a clockspeed increase of 100%
(strangest thing about all this is that they reached the 40Mhz barrier in 1990 with the $10,000 macintosh II fx)
i don't think they will release any updates soon either, i think they are focusing on the ipod mini's for the next few weeks. just look at the #'s from the last quarter of ipod sales. they make the cpu sales look so weak!
i'm staying in a holding pattern until the 90nm's come out......
i don't think they will release any updates soon either, i think they are focusing on the ipod mini's for the next few weeks. just look at the #'s from the last quarter of ipod sales. they make the cpu sales look so weak!
the ipod was the ideal christmas 2003 gift. it's much easier to shell out $300 than $1,000 or even $3,000 on a cpu. and even those sales where up.
I tend to agree that as time goes it looks likely that Apple/IBM will reach the 3 gig mark in one go. And if that is mid-March that puts Apple firmly ahead of their promise.
Lemon Bon Bon
LBB
What would be next if they did go to 3 gig in one step? I am not one to believe the conspiracy theories that Apple will sit on upgrades to make more money. But, would we expect to see the next generation PPC at the end of the year? Does that make sense? Release a 3 gig 970fx in March and then in the late Fall the Power 5 derivative comes out. Even if it doesn't have a much higher clock speed, the internal improvements will increase performance.
Comments
Originally posted by Amorph
If you put it that way, we have no tangible proof that IBM is able to fab 90nm 970fx's at any clockspeed. The blade, and the Xserve G5, are paper releases.
Okay, fine Mr. Smarmy.
They have acknowledged and published specs (and are selling machines today -- later delivery) on 90nm at 2.0 GHz. We haven't heard from the inside (that I am aware of) that IBM is fabbing faster 970's.
My whole point is this: why are people jumping all over Apple about not releasing new machines? We don't even know that they have new machines ready to be produced.
It is funny (it always happens on various forums) how people believe the guesses we all make and bank on it: "Well, new Powermacs didn't come out. Stupid Apple, I'm buying a Dell."
We may not see new machines until we hit 3GHz. I hope not, but, it seems more likely as time passes.
Also, the refurbed dual machines have gone MIA.
Originally posted by neumac
I know that it's the Future Hardware equivalent of trying to read tea leaves, but shipping times for the dual G5s at the Apple Store went from "Same Day" on Friday to "1-3 Days" today.
Also, the refurbed dual machines have gone MIA.
Could mean something for G5's, who knows, but if it does, then what does it mean that all of the eMac's and iMac's still show same day shipping.
Tomorrow, then..
Originally posted by Addison
I think the point atomicham is trying to make is that whilst Apple have announced 2ghx xServer on 90nm, they are the first 90nm chips. I must say it seems a little odd that the move to 90nm doesn't result in a speed increase over the top end 130nm process. Clearly we don't know if they are sandbagging orif that is the best they can do right now.
Either way, I think we all thought that the first G5 speed bump would have happened by now. SJ gave us a 12 month time frame for a 1ghz jump, it is difficult to believe that Apple is going to do it in one leap.
You can't compare the top speed they are putting in the Xserve to the top speed they could put in a PowerMac. Those are two completely different animals. The best indicator we have is the power output of the G5 Xserve -- 24.5W @ 2 GHz leaves plenty of headroom for the PowerMac G5 case, which we already know can support dual ~75W chips. They could use the existing memory controller and keep the 1 GHz bus speed with a 3:1 ratio... but I suspect they're trying for better. The real question is what are they going to do for RAM.
Believe it or not, I think they might do the 1 GHz jump all at once. Since the 90nm chips are shipping this month it could be any time between now and August.
Could you imagine investing in a company. Their sales slide a bit because a product's strong sales point always fades. Then they won't release the next update for another year. When that update comes... it sux? You just lost a bunch of money.
This is speculation of course but its another point of why apple has to release something. My bet is still this week till mid march.
Originally posted by Programmer
Believe it or not, I think they might do the 1 GHz jump all at once. Since the 90nm chips are shipping this month it could be any time between now and August. [/B]
It would not be wise to do a 50% frequency-increase all at once one year after the rev. A (the "no rev."
I suspect that we will get the new PM next week (Maybe topping off at 2.6 GHz). That means we should see 3GHz+ models shipping by the end of August. Exactly one year after the Dual G5 at 2GHz starting shipping. This is putting the PM on a 6 Month cycle. Now that is pretty cool and next Jan/Feb 2005 should see us approaching 4GHz, in line with IBM's rumored 975/980 schedule.
And, IBM did over deliver last time. 2 gig over the expected 1.8.
I hope so. The 0.09 process seems to be favouring PPC over x86.
Ask Intel.
The 970fx seems to be much smaller, much cooler and plenty of latitude to clock higher without causing a nuclear meltdown (Hi, Prescott...)
The heat figures for the new 970fx at 2 gig seem very impressive. Suggesting much higher clock speeds might not be the problem for IBM that they are for Intel.
It would be a stunning coupe if IBM could deliver 2.6-3.2 gig PPCs just as Prescott and the Pentium 4/5 stalls on the 0.09 process!!!
I'm not betting against it.
The rumours of Apple big wigs saying the rumour folks were way behind on Apple's progress with the G5 Rev B seems to suggest we could be in for a shock. If it's anything like the over delivery of the G5 rev a then I could be getting the wallet out...
Lemon Bon Bon
Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
The rumours of Apple big wigs saying the rumour folks were way behind on Apple's progress with the G5 Rev B seems to suggest we could be in for a shock. If it's anything like the over delivery of the G5 rev a then I could be getting the wallet out... Lemon Bon Bon
Link?!?!
I'm quite upset with myself since I'm usually up on all the latest in rumor news postings...
Where was that posted?
Dave
Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
I tend to agree that as time goes it looks likely that Apple/IBM will reach the 3 gig mark in one go.
It also may be a better marketing move to have a big jump rather than smaller incremental ones. The tech press would jump on that story. Me thinks a 3ghz G5 would even impress the most jaded PC journalist.
Originally posted by sls
The sooner, the better... However, I'll stop being an optimist regarding new Power Macs. I'll rather look forward to an dual 2.2Ghz release 26th of March and get a happy surprise IF something better shows up then or earlier. It would be a good PR-trick to announce 3 Ghz now, but it should be announced when a lot of people are paying attention (MW expo etc) and it should be properly tested - not being rushed out on the marked.
it doesnt need to be tested b/c its already in the xserves, so processor issues will already be straightened out. here's hoping for tomorrow!
Originally posted by emig647
I'd have to agree that comparing Xserve to Powermac is apple vs. orange. Apple has always kept the powermac slightly faster then the Xserve. I find it extremely hard to swallow that apple is going to do a 1ghz jump. No one in history has done a jump that intense... such as 33mhz to 100mhz
know your history and math
a 1Ghz jump from a 2Ghz G5 to a 3 Ghz G5 is like from 66-100Mhz a clockspeed increase of 50%
apple did even more in 1994:
they jumped from the 40Mhz macintosh quadra 840AV to the 80Mhz power macintosh 8100. a clockspeed increase of 100%
(strangest thing about all this is that they reached the 40Mhz barrier in 1990 with the $10,000 macintosh II fx)
i'm staying in a holding pattern until the 90nm's come out......
Originally posted by whoami
i don't think they will release any updates soon either, i think they are focusing on the ipod mini's for the next few weeks. just look at the #'s from the last quarter of ipod sales. they make the cpu sales look so weak!
the ipod was the ideal christmas 2003 gift. it's much easier to shell out $300 than $1,000 or even $3,000 on a cpu. and even those sales where up.
Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
I tend to agree that as time goes it looks likely that Apple/IBM will reach the 3 gig mark in one go. And if that is mid-March that puts Apple firmly ahead of their promise.
Lemon Bon Bon
LBB
What would be next if they did go to 3 gig in one step? I am not one to believe the conspiracy theories that Apple will sit on upgrades to make more money. But, would we expect to see the next generation PPC at the end of the year? Does that make sense? Release a 3 gig 970fx in March and then in the late Fall the Power 5 derivative comes out. Even if it doesn't have a much higher clock speed, the internal improvements will increase performance.
Just a thought.
Kurt