I'm not sure where this notion (that a slot is required to make a thin drive) comes from. Appropriate tray load mechanisms do exist (even for the Ti's form factor). I don't see Apple making a Sony style wedge, though the Ti shape seems perfect for it -- nice and flat.
Even if you remove the optical, you can't get much thinner because you still need room for the HDD and appropriate shock mounting as well as the heat ducting for the circuitry, room for ports, decent key travel etc etc...
What might be interesting is a third party wedge that takes the battery slot but then spans the whole footprint of the Ti and grabs the corners and a firewire port to stay in place. Inside, it's nothing but battery cells and room for two more notebook drives. Could be useful for some?
Screw the drive. They better add USB 2.0 soon. With Sony including USB 2.0 support on their upcomming digital (still) cameras I am getting a little worried. This from a manufacturer who has included Firewire on their computers even before Apple.
<strong>Screw the drive. They better add USB 2.0 soon. With Sony including USB 2.0 support on their upcomming digital (still) cameras I am getting a little worried. This from a manufacturer who has included Firewire on their computers even before Apple.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Not 'whatever' affordable (consumer) peripherals are all going the USB2.0 route. Apple needs to include this now! A scanner maker who puts out a USB2 scanner isn't going to bother with a firewire scanner, you can just use it at 1.1 speeds they'll say. Same with digital still cameras. Apple better get it's act together here and do 1 of 2 (or better yet both) of two things.
1.) Just include USB2 along with firewire.
2.) Put a faster firewire bus on EVERY mac (800Mbps, ok; 1600Mbps ideal) and get griffin or oxford or somebody to make a small inline USB2 to firewire bridge cable (the same way they bridge ATA to firewire now)
Eh, USB 2 does not interest me. First, FireWire does not require drivers, at least in X, because the specification makes sure that all FireWire devices are made the same way...
Also, The Sequal is never as good as the original. USB should stay with my keyboard and not try to be my External HD... it is like the puny kid with glasses trying to lift 400 pounds with an air suit on...you see what i mean? <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" /> <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" /> <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" /> <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
Oh I agree, USB2.0 (and Intel for introducing it) should have been killed off, but with the industry being what it is, USB2 will not only survive, but surpass the market penetration of firewire (on consumer devices) Only DV is guaranteed, and maybe home A/V, but for scanners printers, still cams, and MP3 players, USB is gonna win. If you want reasonably affordable peripherals, you're going to need USB2, it's that simple.
Reggie confirms the CPU in my sister's PowerBook G4 DVI is a 7455 also. I think the 1.25 GHz G4s also draw in 1.85 volts instead of the 1.8 of the previous QuickSilvers, but I'm not certain.
I don't think so. iBook update/pricedrop maybe sometime in Q4, but the PBG4 won't be updated yet. The PowerBook will be in MacWorld San Francisco, in January. The Ti will have reached two years old. Apple's notebook cycles are almost exactly two years between revisions, four years between complete revamps. We'll see an updated design (expect more shiny chrome, and fixed problems with the Ti, such as flimsiness and the crappy flaking paint), and almost all of the specs will be bumped. Price drops on the professional laptop? Not on your life, whiners.
Apple market share growth? Not on your life, apologists. Forget a couple of quarters of slim growth in a weak economy. Computers will be fully commoditized (even more so than now) in the next ten years. Manufacturers can come to terms with this or they can dissapear. Only the portability premium keeps laptop prices higher, but even this market shows signs of massive price drops over the next 2-3 years. If Apple doesn't find a way to deliver massively cheaper solutions they will dissapear from the consumer and pro landscape. Prices must come down, and it would be better to begin this process NOW in very small, gradual, steps than to run face first into the reality of disposable computing at some point in the next half decade.
Yeah, the flaking paint issue is pretty lame. Apple should go unpainted or used anodized colors. Anodized metal will still scratch, but at least it won't flake off, heh.
There's a photo of a PowerBook that had the paint stripped off the hinges and polished to a mirror shine...very cool.
[quote] Apple market share growth? Not on your life, apologists. Forget a couple of quarters of slim growth in a weak economy. Computers will be fully commoditized (even more so than now) in the next ten years. Manufacturers can come to terms with this or they can dissapear. Only the portability premium keeps laptop prices higher, but even this market shows signs of massive price drops over the next 2-3 years. If Apple doesn't find a way to deliver massively cheaper solutions they will dissapear from the consumer and pro landscape. Prices must come down, and it would be better to begin this process NOW in very small, gradual, steps than to run face first into the reality of disposable computing at some point in the next half decade. <hr></blockquote>
Nice post. That's straight talk, nice and objective. I too agree. I would LOVE a PowerBook. But for $3000 forget about it. And that's Education pricing. Does Apple, with the MBAs, realize this? I bet if they halved the price of the PB, the amount of sales would make up for the lesser margin.
Slot loading is fscking stupid, I really hope that dies off. And a drive bay would be SWEET, no objections here.
Nice post. That's straight talk, nice and objective. I too agree. I would LOVE a PowerBook. But for $3000 forget about it. And that's Education pricing. Does Apple, with the MBAs, realize this? I bet if they halved the price of the PB, the amount of sales would make up for the lesser margin.
Slot loading is fscking stupid, I really hope that dies off. And a drive bay would be SWEET, no objections here.
There is no reason not to have USB 2.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Here-Here. However I will pay $2000 for a "Practical" state-of-the-art PB. The old G3 PBs were more practical portable office solution than the current G4 PBs.
On the subject of USB2.. should the new PB have a USB 2, FW 1 and a FW 2 ? At least the current USB can just be replaced. I fear that once Apple switches to FW 2, they will stop supporting the original FW and only have FW 2 ports. We will need to buy a convertor of some sort to keep using our original FW devices. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
<strong>Where does the notion that max. operating frequency scales linearly with Vcc come from anyway?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I've observed it a) in the 745x; b) with the two voltages that Mot uses (1.8v and 1.3v); c) approximately.
It's obviously not true in general, but it seems to me to be back-of-the-envelope accurate within these constraints.
Unless I'm way off, and it just happened that so far Apple's used numbers on an exponential scale that happen to look sort of linear?
As for PB prices, Apple will charge what the market will bear, within reason. They've lowered their prices when they didn't have something they could charge full price for, and raised them when they did. The current PB's are nice, and a solid incremental upgrade this fall (800/933MHz, or possibly 800/1000 if possible, with the top end getting the 167MHz MaxBus; better optical drives; bigger HDDs; a bump to the 64MB RADEON 9000 Mobility; maybe DDR RAM to score a marketing point, although it wouldn't matter as much on a laptop) will keep them nice.
Apple has been hard at work with Panasonic(?) on a laptop-sized SuperDrive for a while now. If that appears this fall, so much the better. It'll probably be s - l - o - w, for size and heat (and therefore power) reasons, but it'll be enough that you can burn DVDs on a sanely proportioned laptop without having to plug it into a wall.
I don't think you need an adapter for FW 2 --> 1. But if you do that's no big deal.
But what I'm saying is: just because Apple can't get FireWire 2 out the door, doesn't mean they should hold USB 2 back. They make more money out of computers than FireWire I would guess. They're just being anal because it's an Intel tech I s'pose. This is a bad attitude.
On the subject of USB2.. should the new PB have a USB 2, FW 1 and a FW 2 ? At least the current USB can just be replaced. I fear that once Apple switches to FW 2, they will stop supporting the original FW and only have FW 2 ports. We will need to buy a convertor of some sort to keep using our original FW devices. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
I would guess that Apple will provide the adapter much like they supply the DVI-VGA adapter. That makes most sense to me.
Putting both FW1 & FW2 onboard just puts prices up. Putting FW2 onboard gives Apple bragging rights (as would USB2) at the expense of us. They don't usually worry about that
I hope they do put both on. It would be good to see the Powerbook ahead of the pack again.
<strong>I don't think you need an adapter for FW 2 --> 1. But if you do that's no big deal.
But what I'm saying is: just because Apple can't get FireWire 2 out the door, doesn't mean they should hold USB 2 back. They make more money out of computers than FireWire I would guess. They're just being anal because it's an Intel tech I s'pose. This is a bad attitude.</strong><hr></blockquote>
They're probably holding off because if they implement USB 2 without FW 2 (which, on top of everything else, is cheaper to implement than FW) USB 2 will drive FW peripherals out of the consumer market and into a professional niche. That's what Intel wants, and that's what they'll try to do.
It's sad that political reasons drive technical decisions, but in this case it's not Apple's fault. USB 2 is inferior to FireWire (1, not 2) for many applications, theoretical bandwidth notwithstanding, and I think there's more to it than "their tech driving away our tech" - there's also the problem of "their inferior tech driving away our tech." Apple is building their whole strategy around a lot of things that FireWire is well-suited to and USB (in any form) is not. They're wise to do what they can to keep FireWire viable in the consumer space.
It's a losing battle. Sony, the first (and other) big booster of firewire is now releasing it's digital still cameras with USB2 (no firewire) as well as its external portable burners. Not good considering all their laptops and desktops of the past 3+ years have included Firewire.
The standard is far superior, but, really, most consumer don't care, it comes down to availability and cost and USB is winning there. Only DV gives the 'consumer' any reason to stay with Firewire. For burning, HDD, MP3, digital still, scanners and printers, consumers are more than happy to have USB2.
SO, if Apple wants to keep it's own consumers happy, it would be wise to integrate USB2 and make it work well.
Comments
Even if you remove the optical, you can't get much thinner because you still need room for the HDD and appropriate shock mounting as well as the heat ducting for the circuitry, room for ports, decent key travel etc etc...
What might be interesting is a third party wedge that takes the battery slot but then spans the whole footprint of the Ti and grabs the corners and a firewire port to stay in place. Inside, it's nothing but battery cells and room for two more notebook drives. Could be useful for some?
<strong>
quote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by hotboxd:
what would a current 1.25Ghz chip reduced to 1.3V clock at?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
About 900MHz.</strong><hr></blockquote>How is that? If the current 1.25Ghz is a 1.6V chip, at 1.3V it would be around 1Ghz.
<strong>Screw the drive. They better add USB 2.0 soon. With Sony including USB 2.0 support on their upcomming digital (still) cameras I am getting a little worried. This from a manufacturer who has included Firewire on their computers even before Apple.</strong><hr></blockquote>
whatever
<strong>How is that? If the current 1.25Ghz is a 1.6V chip, at 1.3V it would be around 1Ghz.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Where does the notion that max. operating frequency scales linearly with Vcc come from anyway?
Bye,
RazzFazz
1.) Just include USB2 along with firewire.
2.) Put a faster firewire bus on EVERY mac (800Mbps, ok; 1600Mbps ideal) and get griffin or oxford or somebody to make a small inline USB2 to firewire bridge cable (the same way they bridge ATA to firewire now)
3.) give us both faster firewire and USB2
Also, The Sequal is never as good as the original. USB should stay with my keyboard and not try to be my External HD... it is like the puny kid with glasses trying to lift 400 pounds with an air suit on...you see what i mean?
<a href="http://e-www.motorola.com/brdata/PDFDB/docs/MPC7455FACT.pdf"; target="_blank">http://e-www.motorola.com/brdata/PDFDB/docs/MPC7455FACT.pdf</a>;
Reggie confirms the CPU in my sister's PowerBook G4 DVI is a 7455 also. I think the 1.25 GHz G4s also draw in 1.85 volts instead of the 1.8 of the previous QuickSilvers, but I'm not certain.
There's a photo of a PowerBook that had the paint stripped off the hinges and polished to a mirror shine...very cool.
Nice post. That's straight talk, nice and objective. I too agree. I would LOVE a PowerBook. But for $3000 forget about it. And that's Education pricing. Does Apple, with the MBAs, realize this? I bet if they halved the price of the PB, the amount of sales would make up for the lesser margin.
Slot loading is fscking stupid, I really hope that dies off. And a drive bay would be SWEET, no objections here.
There is no reason not to have USB 2.
<strong>
Nice post. That's straight talk, nice and objective. I too agree. I would LOVE a PowerBook. But for $3000 forget about it. And that's Education pricing. Does Apple, with the MBAs, realize this? I bet if they halved the price of the PB, the amount of sales would make up for the lesser margin.
Slot loading is fscking stupid, I really hope that dies off. And a drive bay would be SWEET, no objections here.
There is no reason not to have USB 2.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Here-Here. However I will pay $2000 for a "Practical" state-of-the-art PB. The old G3 PBs were more practical portable office solution than the current G4 PBs.
On the subject of USB2.. should the new PB have a USB 2, FW 1 and a FW 2 ? At least the current USB can just be replaced. I fear that once Apple switches to FW 2, they will stop supporting the original FW and only have FW 2 ports. We will need to buy a convertor of some sort to keep using our original FW devices. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
[ 09-03-2002: Message edited by: MrBillData ]</p>
<strong>Where does the notion that max. operating frequency scales linearly with Vcc come from anyway?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I've observed it a) in the 745x; b) with the two voltages that Mot uses (1.8v and 1.3v); c) approximately.
It's obviously not true in general, but it seems to me to be back-of-the-envelope accurate within these constraints.
Unless I'm way off, and it just happened that so far Apple's used numbers on an exponential scale that happen to look sort of linear?
As for PB prices, Apple will charge what the market will bear, within reason. They've lowered their prices when they didn't have something they could charge full price for, and raised them when they did. The current PB's are nice, and a solid incremental upgrade this fall (800/933MHz, or possibly 800/1000 if possible, with the top end getting the 167MHz MaxBus; better optical drives; bigger HDDs; a bump to the 64MB RADEON 9000 Mobility; maybe DDR RAM to score a marketing point, although it wouldn't matter as much on a laptop) will keep them nice.
Apple has been hard at work with Panasonic(?) on a laptop-sized SuperDrive for a while now. If that appears this fall, so much the better. It'll probably be s - l - o - w, for size and heat (and therefore power) reasons, but it'll be enough that you can burn DVDs on a sanely proportioned laptop without having to plug it into a wall.
[ 09-03-2002: Message edited by: Amorph ]</p>
But what I'm saying is: just because Apple can't get FireWire 2 out the door, doesn't mean they should hold USB 2 back. They make more money out of computers than FireWire I would guess. They're just being anal because it's an Intel tech I s'pose. This is a bad attitude.
<strong>
On the subject of USB2.. should the new PB have a USB 2, FW 1 and a FW 2 ? At least the current USB can just be replaced. I fear that once Apple switches to FW 2, they will stop supporting the original FW and only have FW 2 ports. We will need to buy a convertor of some sort to keep using our original FW devices. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
[ 09-03-2002: Message edited by: MrBillData ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
I would guess that Apple will provide the adapter much like they supply the DVI-VGA adapter. That makes most sense to me.
Putting both FW1 & FW2 onboard just puts prices up. Putting FW2 onboard gives Apple bragging rights (as would USB2) at the expense of us. They don't usually worry about that
I hope they do put both on. It would be good to see the Powerbook ahead of the pack again.
<strong>I don't think you need an adapter for FW 2 --> 1. But if you do that's no big deal.
But what I'm saying is: just because Apple can't get FireWire 2 out the door, doesn't mean they should hold USB 2 back. They make more money out of computers than FireWire I would guess. They're just being anal because it's an Intel tech I s'pose. This is a bad attitude.</strong><hr></blockquote>
They're probably holding off because if they implement USB 2 without FW 2 (which, on top of everything else, is cheaper to implement than FW) USB 2 will drive FW peripherals out of the consumer market and into a professional niche. That's what Intel wants, and that's what they'll try to do.
It's sad that political reasons drive technical decisions, but in this case it's not Apple's fault. USB 2 is inferior to FireWire (1, not 2) for many applications, theoretical bandwidth notwithstanding, and I think there's more to it than "their tech driving away our tech" - there's also the problem of "their inferior tech driving away our tech." Apple is building their whole strategy around a lot of things that FireWire is well-suited to and USB (in any form) is not. They're wise to do what they can to keep FireWire viable in the consumer space.
The standard is far superior, but, really, most consumer don't care, it comes down to availability and cost and USB is winning there. Only DV gives the 'consumer' any reason to stay with Firewire. For burning, HDD, MP3, digital still, scanners and printers, consumers are more than happy to have USB2.
SO, if Apple wants to keep it's own consumers happy, it would be wise to integrate USB2 and make it work well.