The drivers would be of no use to anyone who didn't have a GeForce FX with Mac compatible firmware. Maybe they're just not in the regular developer builds?
Does anyone know if any PC GeForce 5200s work in Macs ?
Some one recently was working on flashing a Radeon 9800, but ran into a problem. The pc card only had room for a 64k bios, and it needed to be 128k for the mac bios. They ended up removing the chip and repacing it with a larger one. So what does that show? That the only difference is the size of the rom, and the bios it is flashed with. Which goes back to my point of it not costing millions to market a mac card.
Yesterday, someone posted a method to flash a PC Radeon 9800, using a Radeon 8500, just to bypass the bios issue (I hope I am transferring correctly the term "flash" he use). The story is in french.
Yesterday, someone posted a method to flash a PC Radeon 9800, using a Radeon 8500, just to bypass the bios issue (I hope I am transferring correctly the term "flash" he use). The story is in french.
That's pretty cool. It could save someone about $150.00 I found the PC 9800 Pro for $204.00. (and I only checked one spot) The Apple store one from the pulldown is: Add $350.00. I saw something similar that would be cooler for me (but for PC) how to turn a Raedon 9500 pro into a FireGL using FireGL drivers. The thing that sucks is I have no FireGL Mac drivers or decent 3D cards to choose from to be able to benefit from some of these great little tricks.
That's pretty cool. It could save someone about $150.00 I found the PC 9800 Pro for $204.00. (and I only checked one spot) The Apple store one from the pulldown is: Add $350.00. I saw something similar that would be cooler for me (but for PC) how to turn a Raedon 9500 pro into a FireGL using FireGL drivers. The thing that sucks is I have no FireGL Mac drivers or decent 3D cards to choose from to be able to benefit from some of these great little tricks.
Well, according to my source in the ATI Mac driver group they aren't holding anything back in the Mac drivers. If the Mac drivers were to be labeled "consumer" vs. "professional" they would be pro. Same goes for the hardware. This is not to say that there aren't bugs to be fixed or optimizations yet to be done, but you can't equate the Mac to the PC in this case.
That's pretty cool. It could save someone about $150.00 I found the PC 9800 Pro for $204.00. (and I only checked one spot) The Apple store one from the pulldown is: Add $350.00.
In the case of the guy who did the trick (in Paris, France), the savings are 417? - 225? = 192? = 236.16$. Not bad.
Well, according to my source in the ATI Mac driver group they aren't holding anything back in the Mac drivers. If the Mac drivers were to be labeled "consumer" vs. "professional" they would be pro. Same goes for the hardware. This is not to say that there aren't bugs to be fixed or optimizations yet to be done, but you can't equate the Mac to the PC in this case.
{EDIT} If that card did in fact have the 3D drivers it would perform as well as a FireGL with Maya, but I know a few people that have problems with that card, and Maya.
I'm inclined to think that would just be the difference between the Radeon 9800, and the raedon 9800 Pro. I'm pretty sure FireGL drivers would be 3D specific, and pretty different. So if I were to actually go buy a PC FireGL, (which I would if it worked) and flash it with the Radeon 9500, or 9800 drivers. I would have just downgraded a $1,207.54 FireGL X2 3D card to 95, or 9800 Pro gaming card. If you can get some more specific information about the drivers let me know, but that's a lot of money to just throw away.
ATI says that card is $899, but I have yet to find it at that price.
Personally I'd rather they just sell it to us labeled as a Mac card.
{EDIT} If that card did in fact have the 3D drivers it would perform as well as a FireGL with Maya, but I know a few people that have problems with that card, and Maya.
I'm inclined to think that would just be the difference between the Radeon 9800, and the raedon 9800 Pro. I'm pretty sure FireGL drivers would be 3D specific, and pretty different. So if I were to actually go buy a PC FireGL, (which I would if it worked) and flash it with the Radeon 9500, or 9800 drivers. I would have just downgraded a $1,207.54 FireGL X2 3D card to 95, or 9800 Pro gaming card. If you can get some more specific information about the drivers let me know, but that's a lot of money to just throw away.
ATI says that card is $899, but I have yet to find it at that price.
Personally I'd rather they just sell it to us labeled as a Mac card.
i don't know what you're talking about. or rather, i think you're a little confused. the difference between a 9800 and a 9800Pro is nothing but clock speed.
as for the Fire GL, as I've tried to explain several times, the only thing that makes it "special" is that the firmware and drivers (which are two very different things!) are certified with various packages (such as Maya) to guarantee the highest level of stability. that certification process takes a lot of man-hours, which is a big part of the Fire GL's price. Hardware-wise, the Fire GL is the same as a Radeon. For example, the Fire GL X1 is the same hardware (possibly clocked down a little) as a Radeon 9700. So unless you're working on the next Pixar flick at home (or some other "mission critical" work), you'd be better off just buying a 9800Pro and saving a lot of money. Oh yeah, and the 9800Pro is available for the PowerMac G5!
Now, that said, should the graphics cards options from Apple be cheaper? sure. but so should the RAM, hard drives, etc. And when you add a 6 disc changer to a BMW it should only cost $200, right?
i don't know what you're talking about. or rather, i think you're a little confused. the difference between a 9800 and a 9800Pro is nothing but clock speed.
as for the Fire GL, as I've tried to explain several times, the only thing that makes it "special" is that the firmware and drivers (which are two very different things!) are certified with various packages (such as Maya) to guarantee the highest level of stability. that certification process takes a lot of man-hours, which is a big part of the Fire GL's price. Hardware-wise, the Fire GL is the same as a Radeon. For example, the Fire GL X1 is the same hardware (possibly clocked down a little) as a Radeon 9700. So unless you're working on the next Pixar flick at home (or some other "mission critical" work), you'd be better off just buying a 9800Pro and saving a lot of money. Oh yeah, and the 9800Pro is available for the PowerMac G5!
Now, that said, should the graphics cards options from Apple be cheaper? sure. but so should the RAM, hard drives, etc. And when you add a 6 disc changer to a BMW it should only cost $200, right?
here we go.
Quote:
i don't know what you're talking about.
Either you've made that clear several times in the past, or you just wont leave me alone.
Read this first:
Quote:
Well, according to my source in the ATI Mac driver group they aren't holding anything back in the Mac drivers. If the Mac drivers were to be labeled "consumer" vs. "professional" they would be pro. Same goes for the hardware.
If my terminology was incorrect I was merely keeping in the same context as programmer had started. I wasn't all that concerned about particulars. I knew what he meant.
rest of quote:
Quote:
or rather, i think you're a little confused. the difference between a 9800 and a 9800Pro is nothing but clock speed.
as for the Fire GL, as I've tried to explain several times, the only thing that makes it "special" is that the firmware and drivers (which are two very different things!)
Isn't it true that some processor over-clocking can be done via software? You don't always need to solder. Installing different firmware could possibly change the clock speeds without actual hardware modifications?
As I tried to say earlier without getting critical about the terminology.
Quote:
I'm pretty sure FireGL drivers would be 3D specific, and pretty different. So if I were to actually go buy a PC FireGL, (which I would if it worked) and flash it with the Radeon 9500, or 9800 drivers I would have just downgraded a $1,207.54 FireGL X2 3D card to a 95, or 9800 Pro gaming card
That seems accurate enough. do I actually need to explain the particulars again?
[
Quote:
So unless you're working on the next Pixar flick at home (or some other "mission critical" work), you'd be better off just buying a 9800Pro and saving a lot of money.
You obviously have never tried to move large highly detailed scenes, or any highly complex objects around in any 3D application without a card specifically made for 3D. The cost of the card is more than worth it to us. And to probably to Pixar as well now that you mention them.
Now, that said, should the graphics cards options from Apple be cheaper? sure. but so should the RAM, hard drives, etc. And when you add a 6 disc changer to a BMW it should only cost $200, right?
Which is why WWDC is the deadline for me. I can no longer sit, and wait for another year like I have been. I was ready at WWDC last year. I can't even believe I've given Apple this long. If they don't come through I will be spending $5000.00+ on a PC. Can you believe that. My first PC. I never thought it would come to this.
Noooo!!
Don't do it!!
Quote:
Originally posted by Jubelum
Apple: "You vill take vhat we give you and you vill LIKE IT! "
ROFL!!
I think it's time Apple got more serious about 3D.. There are a *lot* of 3D artists using the Mac platform, and I see more and more, people inverse-switching, because the graphics support and software support is more plentiful on the PC.. The poor souls.. The Mac is built for design, it's time Apple re-thought this and did something about it!
By the way. I just thought I'd add this, from ATi's website:
Quote:
ATI reports revenues of $463 million for the second quarter (PDF)
I reckon they're doing OK. I'm sure they can find a way to put a little bit of that revenue into writing drivers for Mac cards...
I have not seen this thread in a while. Who dug this sh*t up?
Quote:
Originally posted by Jimzip
Noooo!!
Don't do it!!
ROFL!!
I think it's time Apple got more serious about 3D.. There are a *lot* of 3D artists using the Mac platform, and I see more and more, people inverse-switching, because the graphics support and software support is more plentiful on the PC.. The poor souls.. The Mac is built for design, it's time Apple re-thought this and did something about it!
By the way. I just thought I'd add this, from ATi's website:
I reckon they're doing OK. I'm sure they can find a way to put a little bit of that revenue into writing drivers for Mac cards...
Jimzip
Good points. I couldn't agree more.
Quote:
Originally posted by mello
Why doesn't Apple just partner up with ATI or Nvidia to make a dedicated
consumer & pro video cards that are optimized up the ying yang for the Mac?
Another good idea. I used to think Apple was built, and run by geniuses. Who the farg took over some bureaucrat?
I think they have one genius trying to orchestrate a shitload of tough things to make them work. Dont get too down on Apple because the REv B G5 isnt out yet....Last year this time there was no G5 and plenty of people didnt think it would come for another 18 months...about now.
I guess, one revision G5 per year is as bad the mediocre choices for video cards. I still don't know what's stopping ATI from releasing a retail 9600 Pro for the G4. There's no new hardware to design and no new drivers required as I'm pretty sure what works in the G5 should work in the G4's with Panther. I guess it all comes down to Jobs telling ATI when and where they can sell their products.
I guess, one revision G5 per year is as bad the mediocre choices for video cards. I still don't know what's stopping ATI from releasing a retail 9600 Pro for the G4. There's no new hardware to design and no new drivers required as I'm pretty sure what works in the G5 should work in the G4's with Panther. I guess it all comes down to Jobs telling ATI when and where they can sell their products.
What if the energy is all going toward Rev. B G5s and PCI Express cards/drivers? After all, the Mac upgrade market is hardly worth much, and there's no point improving the drivers that consumers have already paid for.
PCI Express, if it is indeed coming, will prove hugely profitable for Apple should they get support for it in their video line - but it needs to work very well. Simply put, *if* that is the next technology we see from Apple, they and ATI would be goddamn idiots for expending any energy on AGP drivers. The Mac should be the gold standard for PCI Express because games are no longer the driving software, rather video editing, 3D, etc. will be.
...I still don't know what's stopping ATI from releasing a retail 9600 Pro for the G4. There's no new hardware to design and no new drivers required as I'm pretty sure what works in the G5 should work in the G4's with Panther. I guess it all comes down to Jobs telling ATI when and where they can sell their products.
actually, the cards in the G5's won't physically work in the G4's. the G5's adc power connections on the board are different or something. i forget the exact details, but i read an ATI rep's report about the issue. basically, it's apple's fault for using stupid proprietary interface, which requires higher investment by ATI and nVidia to produce Mac cards (above and beyond the driver/bios issues). and then Apple also changed things around on the G5 boards, throwing yet another wrench in.
On the up side, I highly expect things to get better when apple announces rev b's with pci-x (maybe pci-e?) graphics, and new displays with standard DVI interfaces. we'll see.
Comments
Does anyone know if any PC GeForce 5200s work in Macs ?
onlooker's "uncovered info" from Ciao!
Plague Bearer was actually the one who brought it to the attention of the readers of the thread (my self included).
Originally posted by kupan787
Some one recently was working on flashing a Radeon 9800, but ran into a problem. The pc card only had room for a 64k bios, and it needed to be 128k for the mac bios. They ended up removing the chip and repacing it with a larger one. So what does that show? That the only difference is the size of the rom, and the bios it is flashed with. Which goes back to my point of it not costing millions to market a mac card.
Yesterday, someone posted a method to flash a PC Radeon 9800, using a Radeon 8500, just to bypass the bios issue (I hope I am transferring correctly the term "flash" he use). The story is in french.
Originally posted by PB
Yesterday, someone posted a method to flash a PC Radeon 9800, using a Radeon 8500, just to bypass the bios issue (I hope I am transferring correctly the term "flash" he use). The story is in french.
That's pretty cool. It could save someone about $150.00 I found the PC 9800 Pro for $204.00. (and I only checked one spot) The Apple store one from the pulldown is: Add $350.00. I saw something similar that would be cooler for me (but for PC) how to turn a Raedon 9500 pro into a FireGL using FireGL drivers. The thing that sucks is I have no FireGL Mac drivers or decent 3D cards to choose from to be able to benefit from some of these great little tricks.
Originally posted by onlooker
That's pretty cool. It could save someone about $150.00 I found the PC 9800 Pro for $204.00. (and I only checked one spot) The Apple store one from the pulldown is: Add $350.00. I saw something similar that would be cooler for me (but for PC) how to turn a Raedon 9500 pro into a FireGL using FireGL drivers. The thing that sucks is I have no FireGL Mac drivers or decent 3D cards to choose from to be able to benefit from some of these great little tricks.
Well, according to my source in the ATI Mac driver group they aren't holding anything back in the Mac drivers. If the Mac drivers were to be labeled "consumer" vs. "professional" they would be pro. Same goes for the hardware. This is not to say that there aren't bugs to be fixed or optimizations yet to be done, but you can't equate the Mac to the PC in this case.
Originally posted by onlooker
That's pretty cool. It could save someone about $150.00 I found the PC 9800 Pro for $204.00. (and I only checked one spot) The Apple store one from the pulldown is: Add $350.00.
In the case of the guy who did the trick (in Paris, France), the savings are 417? - 225? = 192? = 236.16$. Not bad.
Originally posted by Programmer
Well, according to my source in the ATI Mac driver group they aren't holding anything back in the Mac drivers. If the Mac drivers were to be labeled "consumer" vs. "professional" they would be pro. Same goes for the hardware. This is not to say that there aren't bugs to be fixed or optimizations yet to be done, but you can't equate the Mac to the PC in this case.
{EDIT} If that card did in fact have the 3D drivers it would perform as well as a FireGL with Maya, but I know a few people that have problems with that card, and Maya.
I'm inclined to think that would just be the difference between the Radeon 9800, and the raedon 9800 Pro. I'm pretty sure FireGL drivers would be 3D specific, and pretty different. So if I were to actually go buy a PC FireGL, (which I would if it worked) and flash it with the Radeon 9500, or 9800 drivers. I would have just downgraded a $1,207.54 FireGL X2 3D card to 95, or 9800 Pro gaming card. If you can get some more specific information about the drivers let me know, but that's a lot of money to just throw away.
ATI says that card is $899, but I have yet to find it at that price.
Personally I'd rather they just sell it to us labeled as a Mac card.
Originally posted by onlooker
{EDIT} If that card did in fact have the 3D drivers it would perform as well as a FireGL with Maya, but I know a few people that have problems with that card, and Maya.
I'm inclined to think that would just be the difference between the Radeon 9800, and the raedon 9800 Pro. I'm pretty sure FireGL drivers would be 3D specific, and pretty different. So if I were to actually go buy a PC FireGL, (which I would if it worked) and flash it with the Radeon 9500, or 9800 drivers. I would have just downgraded a $1,207.54 FireGL X2 3D card to 95, or 9800 Pro gaming card. If you can get some more specific information about the drivers let me know, but that's a lot of money to just throw away.
ATI says that card is $899, but I have yet to find it at that price.
Personally I'd rather they just sell it to us labeled as a Mac card.
i don't know what you're talking about. or rather, i think you're a little confused. the difference between a 9800 and a 9800Pro is nothing but clock speed.
see link
as for the Fire GL, as I've tried to explain several times, the only thing that makes it "special" is that the firmware and drivers (which are two very different things!) are certified with various packages (such as Maya) to guarantee the highest level of stability. that certification process takes a lot of man-hours, which is a big part of the Fire GL's price. Hardware-wise, the Fire GL is the same as a Radeon. For example, the Fire GL X1 is the same hardware (possibly clocked down a little) as a Radeon 9700. So unless you're working on the next Pixar flick at home (or some other "mission critical" work), you'd be better off just buying a 9800Pro and saving a lot of money. Oh yeah, and the 9800Pro is available for the PowerMac G5!
Now, that said, should the graphics cards options from Apple be cheaper? sure. but so should the RAM, hard drives, etc. And when you add a 6 disc changer to a BMW it should only cost $200, right?
Originally posted by concentricity
i don't know what you're talking about. or rather, i think you're a little confused. the difference between a 9800 and a 9800Pro is nothing but clock speed.
see link
as for the Fire GL, as I've tried to explain several times, the only thing that makes it "special" is that the firmware and drivers (which are two very different things!) are certified with various packages (such as Maya) to guarantee the highest level of stability. that certification process takes a lot of man-hours, which is a big part of the Fire GL's price. Hardware-wise, the Fire GL is the same as a Radeon. For example, the Fire GL X1 is the same hardware (possibly clocked down a little) as a Radeon 9700. So unless you're working on the next Pixar flick at home (or some other "mission critical" work), you'd be better off just buying a 9800Pro and saving a lot of money. Oh yeah, and the 9800Pro is available for the PowerMac G5!
Now, that said, should the graphics cards options from Apple be cheaper? sure. but so should the RAM, hard drives, etc. And when you add a 6 disc changer to a BMW it should only cost $200, right?
here we go.
i don't know what you're talking about.
Either you've made that clear several times in the past, or you just wont leave me alone.
Read this first:
Well, according to my source in the ATI Mac driver group they aren't holding anything back in the Mac drivers. If the Mac drivers were to be labeled "consumer" vs. "professional" they would be pro. Same goes for the hardware.
If my terminology was incorrect I was merely keeping in the same context as programmer had started. I wasn't all that concerned about particulars. I knew what he meant.
rest of quote:
or rather, i think you're a little confused. the difference between a 9800 and a 9800Pro is nothing but clock speed.
see link
as for the Fire GL, as I've tried to explain several times, the only thing that makes it "special" is that the firmware and drivers (which are two very different things!)
Isn't it true that some processor over-clocking can be done via software? You don't always need to solder. Installing different firmware could possibly change the clock speeds without actual hardware modifications?
As I tried to say earlier without getting critical about the terminology.
I'm pretty sure FireGL drivers would be 3D specific, and pretty different. So if I were to actually go buy a PC FireGL, (which I would if it worked) and flash it with the Radeon 9500, or 9800 drivers I would have just downgraded a $1,207.54 FireGL X2 3D card to a 95, or 9800 Pro gaming card
That seems accurate enough. do I actually need to explain the particulars again?
[
So unless you're working on the next Pixar flick at home (or some other "mission critical" work), you'd be better off just buying a 9800Pro and saving a lot of money.
You obviously have never tried to move large highly detailed scenes, or any highly complex objects around in any 3D application without a card specifically made for 3D. The cost of the card is more than worth it to us. And to probably to Pixar as well now that you mention them.
I hope you can understand it now.
Originally posted by concentricity
Now, that said, should the graphics cards options from Apple be cheaper? sure. but so should the RAM, hard drives, etc. And when you add a 6 disc changer to a BMW it should only cost $200, right?
It does only cost $200.
Originally posted by onlooker
Which is why WWDC is the deadline for me. I can no longer sit, and wait for another year like I have been. I was ready at WWDC last year. I can't even believe I've given Apple this long. If they don't come through I will be spending $5000.00+ on a PC. Can you believe that. My first PC. I never thought it would come to this.
Noooo!!
Don't do it!!
Originally posted by Jubelum
Apple: "You vill take vhat we give you and you vill LIKE IT! "
ROFL!!
I think it's time Apple got more serious about 3D.. There are a *lot* of 3D artists using the Mac platform, and I see more and more, people inverse-switching, because the graphics support and software support is more plentiful on the PC.. The poor souls.. The Mac is built for design, it's time Apple re-thought this and did something about it!
By the way. I just thought I'd add this, from ATi's website:
ATI reports revenues of $463 million for the second quarter (PDF)
I reckon they're doing OK. I'm sure they can find a way to put a little bit of that revenue into writing drivers for Mac cards...
Jimzip
consumer & pro video cards that are optimized up the ying yang for the Mac?
Originally posted by Jimzip
Noooo!!
Don't do it!!
ROFL!!
I think it's time Apple got more serious about 3D.. There are a *lot* of 3D artists using the Mac platform, and I see more and more, people inverse-switching, because the graphics support and software support is more plentiful on the PC.. The poor souls.. The Mac is built for design, it's time Apple re-thought this and did something about it!
By the way. I just thought I'd add this, from ATi's website:
I reckon they're doing OK. I'm sure they can find a way to put a little bit of that revenue into writing drivers for Mac cards...
Jimzip
Good points. I couldn't agree more.
Originally posted by mello
Why doesn't Apple just partner up with ATI or Nvidia to make a dedicated
consumer & pro video cards that are optimized up the ying yang for the Mac?
Another good idea. I used to think Apple was built, and run by geniuses. Who the farg took over some bureaucrat?
Originally posted by DVD_Junkie
I guess, one revision G5 per year is as bad the mediocre choices for video cards. I still don't know what's stopping ATI from releasing a retail 9600 Pro for the G4. There's no new hardware to design and no new drivers required as I'm pretty sure what works in the G5 should work in the G4's with Panther. I guess it all comes down to Jobs telling ATI when and where they can sell their products.
What if the energy is all going toward Rev. B G5s and PCI Express cards/drivers? After all, the Mac upgrade market is hardly worth much, and there's no point improving the drivers that consumers have already paid for.
PCI Express, if it is indeed coming, will prove hugely profitable for Apple should they get support for it in their video line - but it needs to work very well. Simply put, *if* that is the next technology we see from Apple, they and ATI would be goddamn idiots for expending any energy on AGP drivers. The Mac should be the gold standard for PCI Express because games are no longer the driving software, rather video editing, 3D, etc. will be.
Originally posted by onlooker
I have not seen this thread in a while. Who dug this sh*t up?
Hehe.. That would be me.
Another good idea. I used to think Apple was built, and run by geniuses. Who the farg took over some bureaucrat?
That would be Jobs.. (Let's all take a moment to thank the lord... of microchips..)
Jimzip
Originally posted by DVD_Junkie
...I still don't know what's stopping ATI from releasing a retail 9600 Pro for the G4. There's no new hardware to design and no new drivers required as I'm pretty sure what works in the G5 should work in the G4's with Panther. I guess it all comes down to Jobs telling ATI when and where they can sell their products.
actually, the cards in the G5's won't physically work in the G4's. the G5's adc power connections on the board are different or something. i forget the exact details, but i read an ATI rep's report about the issue. basically, it's apple's fault for using stupid proprietary interface, which requires higher investment by ATI and nVidia to produce Mac cards (above and beyond the driver/bios issues). and then Apple also changed things around on the G5 boards, throwing yet another wrench in.
On the up side, I highly expect things to get better when apple announces rev b's with pci-x (maybe pci-e?) graphics, and new displays with standard DVI interfaces. we'll see.