Maybe that is where the contention is. I feel that anything you can walk away from is better than death.
How many times have i posted in this thread alone that I think these thing are bad, wrong. Abuse in any form is wrong.
last bit...as i see you are from the school of "if you're going to get raped, you might as well lay back and enjoy it"
you say abuse is wrong here, but then you liken it to hazing and your cousin being mean to you...that is what scares us "sensitive" people here...either addabox is correct and you are a sociopath who doesn't know right from wrong, or you are merely a mean spirited 13 year old...either way it is not very interesting to hear from either...so perhaps adding to the ignore list is the best path...
last bit...as i see you are from the school of "if you're going to get raped, you might as well lay back and enjoy it"
you say abuse is wrong here, but then you liken it to hazing and your cousin being mean to you...that is what scares us "sensitive" people here...either addabox is correct and you are a sociopath who doesn't know right from wrong, or you are merely a mean spirited 13 year old...either way it is not very interesting to hear from either...so perhaps adding to the ignore list is the best path...
g
And you reached that conclusion how?
Perhaps you should put me on your ignore list, because you are ignoring what I say and have said when you post accusations and assertions about what I am or what I beleive, especially when I have said exactly the opposite of what you are asserting.
I am simply putting forth my beleifs and thoughts here, that happen to differ from yours, rightly or wrongly.
I won't take the sociopath thing personally, because you did not directly call me that, but I will remind you that people have suggested and asked that I be banned for telling someone to "wise up". But you are not me, and your posts show that you are probably glad about that, and that is cool, I guess.
Perspective and balance is key when trying to understand these kinds of things. Take these statistics into account:
Stories by the big 3 news outlets (CBS, ABC, NBC):
Since January about the mass graves of 300,000+ Iraqis: 5 stories
Since prisoner abuse story broke: 58 stories and counting.
Maybe, I say maybe this is being blown out of perportion a bit. Then again, I am probably just a 13 year old psycopath.
last bit...as i see you are from the school of "if you're going to get raped, you might as well lay back and enjoy it"
you say abuse is wrong here, but then you liken it to hazing and your cousin being mean to you...that is what scares us "sensitive" people here...either addabox is correct and you are a sociopath who doesn't know right from wrong, or you are merely a mean spirited 13 year old...either way it is not very interesting to hear from either...so perhaps adding to the ignore list is the best path...
Hell, guys---does this mean we can stop homosexual gang rape in US prisons?
Maybe prisons are a bad thing.\
Considering a lot of those beasts are prison wardens in civil life, I think I'd rather not know what is going on in US prisons day after day. They obviously had some experience...
German television reported on Friday that US troops tortured to death an Iraqi prisoner in their custody in January this year and captured the abuse on film.
Spiegel TV said in a statement that it had witness accounts and documents to prove that 47-year-old Asad Abdul Kareem Abdul Jaleel had been killed at the US military base Al Asad west of the town Khan Al Baghdadi.
[...]
Spiegel TV said that US forces had tried to cover up the death of the prisoner at Al Asad by declaring in a report that he had ?died in his sleep?
It said the man was a married father of seven, including seven-month-old twins. Employees of the Iraqi medical examination institute in Baghdad told Spiegel TV that they had seen other torture victims among the corpses handed over to them by the International Committee of the Red Cross on behalf of the US military.
Spiegel TV said that Iraqi coroners were told not to conduct an autopsy if an American death certificate was provided, even if the cause of death appeared not to correspond to the injuries.
I guess this is what Naples and other apologist are talking about when they talk about "less evil". I'd rather be beheaded quickly than tortured to death slowly...
Oh yeah right, it is only "alleged" - nice to know the torturers are forbidding Iraqis to find facts, so much more convenient.
hey buon, i know tempers can get heated around here, but having just left a guestbook/message board of a radio personality i used to listen (back when all he did was sports... now he's trying to channel hannity) to now talk with fans about how the "ragheads had it coming to them" and "yahweh, not allah!", i just want to say that appleinsider is SANE by comparison. i think watching 9-11 on continuous loop for weeks on end made some people truly mental.
there are some truly terrifying nutjobs out there, but at least the people i disagree with here seem to have a brain and a logic to their opinions.
Hey! That's either a great photoshop job, or leftovers from Hussiens regiem!!
But Seriously, the glowsitck abuse will end. The people who abused the prisoners will get their Asses kicked by UCMJ, not to mention those involved in the adultery cases and orgies.
The "torture" will probably continue. Waterboarding, tempature treatments, and the Rick James 24/7 at 120 decibels looks to be rough treatment. In the US (and Europe?), where you can get your kids taken away from you for spanking them; it shouldn't be suprising that there are many on these boards that don't have the stomach for this type of coercion.
I guess the alternative is to ask captured bad guys nicely for intel, then simply through more bodies at al Qeada, er, I mean the insurgents. But then I guess we should not be Iraq at all, or even Afganistan---business as usuall has worked so well in the ME, why change policy that's not broken? After all it's not as if that tension has boiled over to Amercian shores. We should clone superhuman intellects such as Richard Clark, people who can do no wrong, install them in homeland security and simply intercept attack after attack defensivley for the indefinite future.
Rumsfeld has got to be toast after this. It doesn't reflect too well on Bush, who recently called him "the best defense sec. America has ever had", or words to that effect. For the sake of the Bush presidency, Rummy should resign.
Hey! That's either a great photoshop job, or leftovers from Hussiens regiem!!
But Seriously, the glowsitck abuse will end. The people who abused the prisoners will get their Asses kicked by UCMJ, not to mention those involved in the adultery cases and orgies.
The "torture" will probably continue. Waterboarding, tempature treatments, and the Rick James 24/7 at 120 decibels looks to be rough treatment. In the US (and Europe?), where you can get your kids taken away from you for spanking them; it shouldn't be suprising that there are many on these boards that don't have the stomach for this type of coercion.
I guess the alternative is to ask captured bad guys nicely for intel, then simply through more bodies at al Qeada, er, I mean the insurgents. But then I guess we should not be Iraq at all, or even Afganistan---business as usuall has worked so well in the ME, why change policy that's not broken? After all it's not as if that tension has boiled over to Amercian shores. We should clone superhuman intellects such as Richard Clark, people who can do no wrong, install them in homeland security and simply intercept attack after attack defensivley for the indefinite future.
Right on, bro!
And why leave it at that? Isn't time we started getting really tough with the accused in America? I mean, "innocent till proven guilty" but, c'mon, we all know the score!
Water boarding and sleep deprivation ought to skyrocket conviction rates among inner city nig..... er, I mean blacks. Sure, the pampered pussies of "liberal" America won't have much stomach for it, but we all know which way their gate swings, am I right?
After all, it's either make torture a regular part of how we get business done or resign ourselves to ongoing crime, "investigating" case after case for the indefinite future.
America! Somewhat better than the worst people in the world! IT MAKES ME FUCKING PROUD, I GOTTA SAY.
And why leave it at that? Isn't time we started getting really tough with the accused in America? I mean, "innocent till proven guilty" but, c'mon, we all know the score!
Water boarding and sleep deprivation ought to skyrocket conviction rates among inner city nig..... er, I mean blacks. Sure, the pampered pussies of "liberal" America won't have much stomach for it, but we all know which way their gate swings, am I right?
After all, it's either make torture a regular part of how we get business done or resign ourselves to ongoing crime, "investigating" case after case for the indefinite future.
America! Somewhat better than the worst people in the world! IT MAKES ME FUCKING PROUD, I GOTTA SAY.
Before responding to any more of my posts, find your irony detection knob and give it a nudge to the right.
As this article says: why were teh people responcible for the death of the man in the photograph not held as accountable as the photographer that snapped the photo?
What photo?
A new photo shown on TV yesterday of a dead Iraqi, who died in custody, and two smiling Americans faces, laughing with thumbs up signs over the bodies.
It is certainly not a 'frat hazing'
and why stop at the obviouse token trials with the people who were following orders and/or were merely following what was obviously part of 'the climate' of the place?
Rumsfeld has got to be toast after this. It doesn't reflect too well on Bush, who recently called him "the best defense sec. America has ever had", or words to that effect. For the sake of the Bush presidency, Rummy should resign.
And for the sake of the Western World Bush should too, but that's another story.
And as to Rumsfeld, if ever I have seen someone who is drunk with the power that so erroneously was handed to him, then it's him. Can you ever forget the spectacle he made of himself on his recent visit to the troops in Iraq, when he exclaimed that his answer to all the criticism levelled against him was, "I don't read the papers", looking around the room, turning his head, grinning insanely, and milking the applause from the soldiers (just what on earth were they thinking?) at the same time. Well that's all right then, Donald
Once again, he proved how totally inept he is in his job.
Comments
Originally posted by NaplesX
Maybe that is where the contention is. I feel that anything you can walk away from is better than death.
How many times have i posted in this thread alone that I think these thing are bad, wrong. Abuse in any form is wrong.
last bit...as i see you are from the school of "if you're going to get raped, you might as well lay back and enjoy it"
you say abuse is wrong here, but then you liken it to hazing and your cousin being mean to you...that is what scares us "sensitive" people here...either addabox is correct and you are a sociopath who doesn't know right from wrong, or you are merely a mean spirited 13 year old...either way it is not very interesting to hear from either...so perhaps adding to the ignore list is the best path...
g
Originally posted by thegelding
last bit...as i see you are from the school of "if you're going to get raped, you might as well lay back and enjoy it"
you say abuse is wrong here, but then you liken it to hazing and your cousin being mean to you...that is what scares us "sensitive" people here...either addabox is correct and you are a sociopath who doesn't know right from wrong, or you are merely a mean spirited 13 year old...either way it is not very interesting to hear from either...so perhaps adding to the ignore list is the best path...
g
And you reached that conclusion how?
Perhaps you should put me on your ignore list, because you are ignoring what I say and have said when you post accusations and assertions about what I am or what I beleive, especially when I have said exactly the opposite of what you are asserting.
I am simply putting forth my beleifs and thoughts here, that happen to differ from yours, rightly or wrongly.
I won't take the sociopath thing personally, because you did not directly call me that, but I will remind you that people have suggested and asked that I be banned for telling someone to "wise up". But you are not me, and your posts show that you are probably glad about that, and that is cool, I guess.
Perspective and balance is key when trying to understand these kinds of things. Take these statistics into account:
Stories by the big 3 news outlets (CBS, ABC, NBC):
Since January about the mass graves of 300,000+ Iraqis: 5 stories
Since prisoner abuse story broke: 58 stories and counting.
Maybe, I say maybe this is being blown out of perportion a bit. Then again, I am probably just a 13 year old psycopath.
Originally posted by NaplesX
And you reached that conclusion how?
.
Hmm?!?!?
let me see . . . complete ignorance of how what he sees might be objectionable . . .
yeah, my bet is some sort of 'condition'
perhaps NaplesX should look up 'sociopath' while also trying introspection and pondering human decency
. . . not to say considering the standards to which America is supposed to hold itself up to . . .
Originally posted by thegelding
last bit...as i see you are from the school of "if you're going to get raped, you might as well lay back and enjoy it"
you say abuse is wrong here, but then you liken it to hazing and your cousin being mean to you...that is what scares us "sensitive" people here...either addabox is correct and you are a sociopath who doesn't know right from wrong, or you are merely a mean spirited 13 year old...either way it is not very interesting to hear from either...so perhaps adding to the ignore list is the best path...
g
How about a quick vote on this one?
Sociopath or mean spirited 13 year old?
Which fits better?
Originally posted by dmz
Hell, guys---does this mean we can stop homosexual gang rape in US prisons?
Maybe prisons are a bad thing.
Considering a lot of those beasts are prison wardens in civil life, I think I'd rather not know what is going on in US prisons day after day. They obviously had some experience...
Originally posted by NaplesX
Are we now even with AQ and the terrorists?
In my view the difference between AlQuaida and US troops is in numbers, not quality.
yeah, way to go fox news... any one else think that this treatment wasn't shocking?
German television reported on Friday that US troops tortured to death an Iraqi prisoner in their custody in January this year and captured the abuse on film.
Spiegel TV said in a statement that it had witness accounts and documents to prove that 47-year-old Asad Abdul Kareem Abdul Jaleel had been killed at the US military base Al Asad west of the town Khan Al Baghdadi.
[...]
Spiegel TV said that US forces had tried to cover up the death of the prisoner at Al Asad by declaring in a report that he had ?died in his sleep?
It said the man was a married father of seven, including seven-month-old twins. Employees of the Iraqi medical examination institute in Baghdad told Spiegel TV that they had seen other torture victims among the corpses handed over to them by the International Committee of the Red Cross on behalf of the US military.
Spiegel TV said that Iraqi coroners were told not to conduct an autopsy if an American death certificate was provided, even if the cause of death appeared not to correspond to the injuries.
Link
Original german link
I guess this is what Naples and other apologist are talking about when they talk about "less evil". I'd rather be beheaded quickly than tortured to death slowly...
Oh yeah right, it is only "alleged" - nice to know the torturers are forbidding Iraqis to find facts, so much more convenient.
there are some truly terrifying nutjobs out there, but at least the people i disagree with here seem to have a brain and a logic to their opinions.
Hey! That's either a great photoshop job, or leftovers from Hussiens regiem!!
But Seriously, the glowsitck abuse will end. The people who abused the prisoners will get their Asses kicked by UCMJ, not to mention those involved in the adultery cases and orgies.
The "torture" will probably continue. Waterboarding, tempature treatments, and the Rick James 24/7 at 120 decibels looks to be rough treatment. In the US (and Europe?), where you can get your kids taken away from you for spanking them; it shouldn't be suprising that there are many on these boards that don't have the stomach for this type of coercion.
I guess the alternative is to ask captured bad guys nicely for intel, then simply through more bodies at al Qeada, er, I mean the insurgents. But then I guess we should not be Iraq at all, or even Afganistan---business as usuall has worked so well in the ME, why change policy that's not broken? After all it's not as if that tension has boiled over to Amercian shores. We should clone superhuman intellects such as Richard Clark, people who can do no wrong, install them in homeland security and simply intercept attack after attack defensivley for the indefinite future.
This is a must read article in the New Yorker, by Seymour Hersh:
http://newyorker.com/fact/content/?040524fa_fact
Rumsfeld has got to be toast after this. It doesn't reflect too well on Bush, who recently called him "the best defense sec. America has ever had", or words to that effect. For the sake of the Bush presidency, Rummy should resign.
Originally posted by dmz
Hey! That's either a great photoshop job, or leftovers from Hussiens regiem!!
But Seriously, the glowsitck abuse will end. The people who abused the prisoners will get their Asses kicked by UCMJ, not to mention those involved in the adultery cases and orgies.
The "torture" will probably continue. Waterboarding, tempature treatments, and the Rick James 24/7 at 120 decibels looks to be rough treatment. In the US (and Europe?), where you can get your kids taken away from you for spanking them; it shouldn't be suprising that there are many on these boards that don't have the stomach for this type of coercion.
I guess the alternative is to ask captured bad guys nicely for intel, then simply through more bodies at al Qeada, er, I mean the insurgents. But then I guess we should not be Iraq at all, or even Afganistan---business as usuall has worked so well in the ME, why change policy that's not broken? After all it's not as if that tension has boiled over to Amercian shores. We should clone superhuman intellects such as Richard Clark, people who can do no wrong, install them in homeland security and simply intercept attack after attack defensivley for the indefinite future.
Right on, bro!
And why leave it at that? Isn't time we started getting really tough with the accused in America? I mean, "innocent till proven guilty" but, c'mon, we all know the score!
Water boarding and sleep deprivation ought to skyrocket conviction rates among inner city nig..... er, I mean blacks. Sure, the pampered pussies of "liberal" America won't have much stomach for it, but we all know which way their gate swings, am I right?
After all, it's either make torture a regular part of how we get business done or resign ourselves to ongoing crime, "investigating" case after case for the indefinite future.
America! Somewhat better than the worst people in the world! IT MAKES ME FUCKING PROUD, I GOTTA SAY.
Originally posted by addabox
Right on, bro!
And why leave it at that? Isn't time we started getting really tough with the accused in America? I mean, "innocent till proven guilty" but, c'mon, we all know the score!
Water boarding and sleep deprivation ought to skyrocket conviction rates among inner city nig..... er, I mean blacks. Sure, the pampered pussies of "liberal" America won't have much stomach for it, but we all know which way their gate swings, am I right?
After all, it's either make torture a regular part of how we get business done or resign ourselves to ongoing crime, "investigating" case after case for the indefinite future.
America! Somewhat better than the worst people in the world! IT MAKES ME FUCKING PROUD, I GOTTA SAY.
Before responding to any more of my posts, find your irony detection knob and give it a nudge to the right.
Appalling abuse of Afghani prisoners too.
As this article says: why were teh people responcible for the death of the man in the photograph not held as accountable as the photographer that snapped the photo?
What photo?
A new photo shown on TV yesterday of a dead Iraqi, who died in custody, and two smiling Americans faces, laughing with thumbs up signs over the bodies.
It is certainly not a 'frat hazing'
and why stop at the obviouse token trials with the people who were following orders and/or were merely following what was obviously part of 'the climate' of the place?
Originally posted by sammi jo
Back on topic:
This is a must read article in the New Yorker, by Seymour Hersh:
http://newyorker.com/fact/content/?040524fa_fact
Rumsfeld has got to be toast after this. It doesn't reflect too well on Bush, who recently called him "the best defense sec. America has ever had", or words to that effect. For the sake of the Bush presidency, Rummy should resign.
And for the sake of the Western World Bush should too, but that's another story.
And as to Rumsfeld, if ever I have seen someone who is drunk with the power that so erroneously was handed to him, then it's him. Can you ever forget the spectacle he made of himself on his recent visit to the troops in Iraq, when he exclaimed that his answer to all the criticism levelled against him was, "I don't read the papers", looking around the room, turning his head, grinning insanely, and milking the applause from the soldiers (just what on earth were they thinking?) at the same time. Well that's all right then, Donald
Once again, he proved how totally inept he is in his job.
Sigh... this is just so depressing
- T. I.
[edit: corrected grammatical error]