Leaving out the keyboard and mouse was just plain stupid, there's no way around that. If the target market consists of switchars, then factor in that many of them are going to have a cheap POS PS2 keyboard littered with windows keys, and they're going to get completely confused the second they look for a mac specific key.
Also, none of them will have access to a proper one button mouse. STOP LAUGHING! Serious. They're going to bring the assisine right click habit over to the mac (where it might be even less consistent than it is in PC-land ere long.) IF you don't make sure EVERY single mac starts off with one-button mousing goodness, it won't be long before developers start futzing about with a good thing.
This is bad bad bad, even apart from the generally poor impression made by excluding a $3 part without which you just can't use the machine. Dumb.
Matsu,
Most decent developers have been using right click since OS X was introduced. The OS is basically designed for a right click but at the same time it is designed so you don't need it...
When we rolled OS X out at my company we intentionally rolled out multi-button mice at exactly the same time!
Saying 256 Ram is not enough for internet is ridiculous. What do you think people are doing online these days that's any different from what they were doing 2-3 years ago when 128 was more than enough for a computer? Sending email and browsing eBay DOES NOT require more than 256 RAM and I'm sure a bunch of people can vouch for that.
If you're buying the Mac mini to use Pro Apps like PS and Illustrator etc, then chances are you know what you're doing, you know that there's only two USB ports and you know that you might need to spend $5 on a hub.
Also, chances are if you're buying a Mac mini to surf and email, you'll be fine with what it comes with.
THE ONLY problem I see with it is that some PC keyboard might not have spare USB ports on them, but if they don't, a $5 USB hub will solve that.
I can't imagine anyone buying a $499 Mac, coming home, seeing that they can't plug in their digital camera and saying "Screw this Mac shit, this was a huge mistake." They'll go buy a hub and that's that.
OSX uses 128Mb by itself. If you check your RAM usage you will find out that its all gone in very short time with 256Mb.
Even 512Mb is pushing it, especially if you have a cable modem.
A powered hub costs more like $20-$30, but it just adds more desk clutter.
Most decent developers have been using right click since OS X was introduced. The OS is basically designed for a right click but at the same time it is designed so you don't need it...
When we rolled OS X out at my company we intentionally rolled out multi-button mice at exactly the same time!
Not so. I do a lot of griping about many of the mac's apple-imposed deficiencies. The one button mouse is actually a great decision as ergonomics and UI design go. Just look at the way you're already thinking of OSX, "basically designed for right click."
Just one step away from breaking up all the hard earned UI consistency Apple has created over the years.
Just reporting that my activity monitor says I am using about 300Mb RAM. Thats just from being online for about 2 hrs. No other programs running except yahoo messenger in the background.
512Mb RAM is a necessity. Which means that the Mac Mini is a $660 computer considering the RAM upgrade, keyboard and mouse and USB hub.
Still good if you have a monitor. If you need one, you can get a 17 inch CRT for $100-150 nowadays.
If you are going to get a 17 inch LCD monitor you can get a decent one for $400.
So.....
Mac mini plus CRT=around $800
Mac mini plus LCD=around $1060
Not bad.
The eMac is the same price, but some may not like its look. Advantage is the extra RAM slot.
The iMac G5 is only $200 more, with an extra USB port, much faster and an extra RAM slot. Disadvantage is some might not like its looks and the screen isnt height adjustable.
The iMac G5 seems like the best deal in this comparison, but personally I'm not crazy about its looks.
The Mini isnt a bad deal but is not a $500 computer.
I agree, not bad and far better than any of the all-in-ones IMO, unless you really want a G5, or prefer the all-in-one concept. Some people do.
Before I increased my RAM from 320Mb to 576Mb my computer would slow to a crawl after being online for a while and opening up a few programs like preview, quicktime, and a few downloads. The extra RAM made a huge difference.
The RAM is available BTO, and two different keyboards and mice are available BTO. You can also buy these wherever you want.
The thing that absolutely kills me is that for years, people complained that they wanted to choose all their own stuff. I'm amazed that there is a whole thread complaining about Apple NOT forcing you to buy what they want you to buy. How messed up is that?
People begged for a $499 Mac, and now they have one.
Order Crucial RAM and have the dealer put it in. Sell the 256 on eBay.
PS/2 connectors? Tsk tsk. There is no WAY you are going to expect Apple to put PS/2 connectors on a machine when USB is their thing.
256 isnt even good enough for the internet. I upgraded my iMac G3 to 576Mb and it really needed it.
It would be nice not to have to use a usb hub
256 is more than enough for the internet. In my home there's a G4 867 with 768. a G4 iBook 800 with 640, and a B&W G3 with 256. We have wireless broadband in our home. All three machines are running Panther and are indistinguishable when it comes to the internet. They are indistinguishable when it comes to normal, run-of-the-mill computing.
Only higher demand apps like games iMovie, or LightWave cause noticeable difference. Of those, only iMovie is part of the target market of the mini. In that case we do notice how much slower the G3 is at rendering titles, etc, but it's hardly unuseable. I don't use garageband, but I'm sure it probably wouldn't even run on the G3.
And yes, it would be nice not to have to buy a usb hub. Of course, no one says you have to.
256 is more than enough for the internet. In my home there's a G4 867 with 768. a G4 iBook 800 with 640, and a B&W G3 with 256. We have wireless broadband in our home. All three machines are running Panther and are indistinguishable when it comes to the internet. They are indistinguishable when it comes to normal, run-of-the-mill computing.
Only higher demand apps like games iMovie, or LightWave cause noticeable difference. Of those, only iMovie is part of the target market of the mini. In that case we do notice how much slower the G3 is at rendering titles, etc, but it's hardly unuseable. I don't use garageband, but I'm sure it probably wouldn't even run on the G3.
And yes, it would be nice not to have to buy a usb hub. Of course, no one says you have to.
Like i said my computer was using 300Mb RAM. Virtual Memory should not have to be used in such a light computer usage.
Every Mac site, every mac expert, suggest 512Mb RAM
The RAM is available BTO, and two different keyboards and mice are available BTO. You can also buy these wherever you want.
The thing that absolutely kills me is that for years, people complained that they wanted to choose all their own stuff. I'm amazed that there is a whole thread complaining about Apple NOT forcing you to buy what they want you to buy. How messed up is that?
People begged for a $499 Mac, and now they have one.
Order Crucial RAM and have the dealer put it in. Sell the 256 on eBay.
PS/2 connectors? Tsk tsk. There is no WAY you are going to expect Apple to put PS/2 connectors on a machine when USB is their thing.
Why on earth should anyone have to remove a perfectly good chip and sell it on ebay? Thats just ludicrous, it should have come ready to rock with 512. Or the ability to add another chip next to the 256. I mean, come on.
Some folks may have wanted to add their own peripherals, but PC users dont.
And who said Apple should have included PS2 connectors?
Like i said my computer was using 300Mb RAM. Virtual Memory should not have to be used in such a light computer usage.
Every Mac site, every mac expert, suggest 512Mb RAM
Mac sites and Mac experts are not in the mini's target market. The mini's target market only cares about the perception of speed like my examples. They do not open up terminal and see how much memory is being used. They do not open browser window after browser window after browser window. They do not usually have more than two or three programs open at a time.
Their new Mac mini will run gloriously free of spyware and viruses. They'll revel in its stability and consistently speedy performance. Yes, they will eventually get impatient. When they do, they will know that they bought the bargain Mac and they will not say "This Mac shit sucks." By this time they will be hooked and they will start considering/shopping for a nice iMac or PowerMac. This is the idea.
Why on earth should anyone have to remove a perfectly good chip and sell it on ebay? Thats just ludicrous, it should have come ready to rock with 512. Or the ability to add another chip next to the 256. I mean, come on.
Some folks may have wanted to add their own peripherals, but PC users dont.
And who said Apple should have included PS2 connectors?
Apple has often done the RAM - shuffle thing. It's old hat with them.
Now tell me exactly what you think the machine should have, and the price.
I'm not so much worried about the RAM either, actually. They can buy more at the time of purchase, and Apple's upgrade to 512MB is actually pretty reasonable. They only soak you for 1GB, but that's not going to be a big consumer choice anyway.
Besides, I'd wager that a lot of PCs have about 256MB, and XP doesn't exactly thrive in that amount of RAM (although it's not horrible either, in my experience). It'll do.
I'm not suggesting that Apple should have put in a PS/2 port. Eeeuuugh. I am suggesting that they'll have to be ready to deal with people who only heard that it works with their existing keyboard and mouse, and who think PS/2 is a game console. However, I think Apple could have doubled the number of USB ports. That's how Windows PCs have survived—by building the hub into the PC. That's what Windows users will expect.
And, finally, I'm not hysterical about any of this. None of this is GOING TO DOOM TEH APPEL OMG!!1 But it will be rocky, and it will require some handholding of consumers, correcting of misperceptions, recommendations of a pile of little nickle-and-dime widgets to get everything hooked up right (which they'd better have in stock!), etc. Apple is throwing their smallest Mac out into the wilds, where everything does not "just work," where there has been no iMac and no Open Firmware to rid the landscape of ancient legacy connectors.
All I'm saying is that Apple had better be ready for that. The most baffling thing, to me, is the setup they display on the Mac mini's page, that shows the little box plugged into a display, keyboard, mouse, and nothing else. It's truth in advertizing, at least, but you really have to wonder that nobody ever asked, "what about the printer?" Last I checked, people do have printers...
<snip> ...And yes, it would be nice not to have to buy a usb hub. Of course, no one says you have to.
I don't know how this is an issue. Modern USB keyboards have a port on them for a mouse and usually another for other low-power devices. That leaves a powered USB port available on the Mac, for a scanner, disk drive or whatever. If you don't have a modern USB keyboard, get with the new millennium.
(Not directed toward you, Guartho,) the nitpicking about this amazing new inexpensive Mac is unbelievable. I'm thrilled to see the Mac mini and fully expect Mac market share to increase because of it.
I don't know how this is an issue. Modern USB keyboards have a port on them for a mouse and usually another for other low-power devices. That leaves a powered USB port available on the Mac, for a scanner, disk drive or whatever. If you don't have a modern USB keyboard, get with the new millennium.
(Not directed toward you, Guartho,) the nitpicking about this amazing new inexpensive Mac is unbelievable. I'm thrilled to see the Mac mini and fully expect Mac market share to increase because of it.
I was just going to mention keyboards having usb ports for the mouse, and i regularly use the other side of my keyboard for my digital camera. i guess I don't understand why you cheap fools can't be happy? i upgraded to 512 in the ram department on mine for 75 squid and an airport extreme card too. I just don't have an issue after dropping like 3k for my powermac a few years back.
I just went to the Macmall site. They are selling the mini for $494. They offer (with mail in rebate required) "free" keyboard and mouse, g base station, color printer, headphones. They also will sell you 17" LCD monitor for 169, a USB Hub for $17, and an airport card (installed?) for $79. That's $761. (shipping is free). If you can the airport card it's 692. Buy a $75 CRT instead and you knock it down to about $600.
That's a lot more than...say...a$350 HP system--problem is, I can't find any such "system" on the pcmall site. What I can find is a box containing a 2.4celeron with 128 RAM and a CDROM drive and a 40 GB drive for $350. It has no wireless, no modem, no speakers, no DVD, no cdrw, no bluetooth capable, no firewire, no monitor. It **does** have lots of USB ports and an all-important parallel port and yes, a keyboard and a mouse
I looked at Dell, and, unless you are looking at the refurbished models, I can't find anything with a combo drive less than $628. Admittedly the dell has 512Mb of RAM which is important, and more gigahetzes, which is probably not. The monitor is 15".
First point: It is not clear to me that the prices for reaonably equivalent systems are all that much better for PC's. People I know keep citing $300 PC's and no doubt such things exist, but HP and Dell sell lots of $600 systems. Maybe I am missing something on the issue of price.
Second: Retailers other than the Apple Store are gonna put together all sorts of packages (one already is) in which low-priced monitors, memory upgrades etc. are folded in to make the mac more palatable to bargain hunters.
These compnents may be low quality, but we ae talking about appealing to price-conscious people...correct?
These compnents may be low quality, but we ae talking about appealing to price-conscious people...correct?
Correct. We are all curious, I think, to see how this affair evolves. It will take time to have some safe conclusions at hand it seems. Perhaps more than a year.
The thing that absolutely kills me is that for years, people complained that they wanted to choose all their own stuff. I'm amazed that there is a whole thread complaining about Apple NOT forcing you to buy what they want you to buy. How messed up is that?
That's not entirely accurate. People have griped about choosing their own display, upgrading their video card, and/or CPU, not that they didn't get to supply their own Keyboard and mouse (though in fairness the less enlightened have griped about it being only a one button.)
For 499, you can convince me that Video/CPU upgrades aren't really worth it. But you cannot convince me that the lack of easy user serviceable RAM slots (there should be at least two) and airport access helps in any way at all, nor the lack of basic input devices in the box.
It's as if Jobs was forced by Apple politics to take a stab at a headless machine, and has handicapped it out of spite. A machine offered without keyboard and mouse is simply absurd. People were asking him to cut the head off the e/iMac, not to also cut out easy access to RAM and wireless I/O and ports. Why doesn't it at a minimum sport the same ports as an eMac? Where's the mic in? Or for that matter, where are the digital outs given that the mini is such a natural fit for the stereo component rack?
No, they've set it up for failure, but may succeed in spite of the themselves.
Matsu, quick question. Why does everyone think these things are hard to crack open. Are they using some special screw set that only three Swiss watchmakers in the world know how to produce or what? I?m sure it will be fairly easy to add an airport card or HD once you find the screwdriver at Radio shack.
Comments
Originally posted by Matsu
Leaving out the keyboard and mouse was just plain stupid, there's no way around that. If the target market consists of switchars, then factor in that many of them are going to have a cheap POS PS2 keyboard littered with windows keys, and they're going to get completely confused the second they look for a mac specific key.
Also, none of them will have access to a proper one button mouse. STOP LAUGHING! Serious. They're going to bring the assisine right click habit over to the mac (where it might be even less consistent than it is in PC-land ere long.) IF you don't make sure EVERY single mac starts off with one-button mousing goodness, it won't be long before developers start futzing about with a good thing.
This is bad bad bad, even apart from the generally poor impression made by excluding a $3 part without which you just can't use the machine. Dumb.
Matsu,
Most decent developers have been using right click since OS X was introduced. The OS is basically designed for a right click but at the same time it is designed so you don't need it...
When we rolled OS X out at my company we intentionally rolled out multi-button mice at exactly the same time!
Originally posted by PBG3
Saying 256 Ram is not enough for internet is ridiculous. What do you think people are doing online these days that's any different from what they were doing 2-3 years ago when 128 was more than enough for a computer? Sending email and browsing eBay DOES NOT require more than 256 RAM and I'm sure a bunch of people can vouch for that.
If you're buying the Mac mini to use Pro Apps like PS and Illustrator etc, then chances are you know what you're doing, you know that there's only two USB ports and you know that you might need to spend $5 on a hub.
Also, chances are if you're buying a Mac mini to surf and email, you'll be fine with what it comes with.
THE ONLY problem I see with it is that some PC keyboard might not have spare USB ports on them, but if they don't, a $5 USB hub will solve that.
I can't imagine anyone buying a $499 Mac, coming home, seeing that they can't plug in their digital camera and saying "Screw this Mac shit, this was a huge mistake." They'll go buy a hub and that's that.
OSX uses 128Mb by itself. If you check your RAM usage you will find out that its all gone in very short time with 256Mb.
Even 512Mb is pushing it, especially if you have a cable modem.
A powered hub costs more like $20-$30, but it just adds more desk clutter.
Originally posted by Tomahawk
Matsu,
Most decent developers have been using right click since OS X was introduced. The OS is basically designed for a right click but at the same time it is designed so you don't need it...
When we rolled OS X out at my company we intentionally rolled out multi-button mice at exactly the same time!
Not so. I do a lot of griping about many of the mac's apple-imposed deficiencies. The one button mouse is actually a great decision as ergonomics and UI design go. Just look at the way you're already thinking of OSX, "basically designed for right click."
Just one step away from breaking up all the hard earned UI consistency Apple has created over the years.
512Mb RAM is a necessity. Which means that the Mac Mini is a $660 computer considering the RAM upgrade, keyboard and mouse and USB hub.
Still good if you have a monitor. If you need one, you can get a 17 inch CRT for $100-150 nowadays.
If you are going to get a 17 inch LCD monitor you can get a decent one for $400.
So.....
Mac mini plus CRT=around $800
Mac mini plus LCD=around $1060
Not bad.
The eMac is the same price, but some may not like its look. Advantage is the extra RAM slot.
The iMac G5 is only $200 more, with an extra USB port, much faster and an extra RAM slot. Disadvantage is some might not like its looks and the screen isnt height adjustable.
The iMac G5 seems like the best deal in this comparison, but personally I'm not crazy about its looks.
The Mini isnt a bad deal but is not a $500 computer.
Originally posted by steve666
512Mb RAM is a necessity.
Virtual memory does work, it's not a necessity.
So.....
Mac mini plus CRT=around $800
Mac mini plus LCD=around $1060
Not bad.
I agree, not bad and far better than any of the all-in-ones IMO, unless you really want a G5, or prefer the all-in-one concept. Some people do.
Originally posted by iDave
Virtual memory does work, it's not a necessity.
I agree, not bad and far better than any of the all-in-ones IMO, unless you really want a G5, or prefer the all-in-one concept. Some people do.
Before I increased my RAM from 320Mb to 576Mb my computer would slow to a crawl after being online for a while and opening up a few programs like preview, quicktime, and a few downloads. The extra RAM made a huge difference.
All Macs should have 512Mb standard. IMHO
The thing that absolutely kills me is that for years, people complained that they wanted to choose all their own stuff. I'm amazed that there is a whole thread complaining about Apple NOT forcing you to buy what they want you to buy. How messed up is that?
People begged for a $499 Mac, and now they have one.
Order Crucial RAM and have the dealer put it in. Sell the 256 on eBay.
PS/2 connectors? Tsk tsk. There is no WAY you are going to expect Apple to put PS/2 connectors on a machine when USB is their thing.
Originally posted by steve666
256 isnt even good enough for the internet. I upgraded my iMac G3 to 576Mb and it really needed it.
It would be nice not to have to use a usb hub
256 is more than enough for the internet. In my home there's a G4 867 with 768. a G4 iBook 800 with 640, and a B&W G3 with 256. We have wireless broadband in our home. All three machines are running Panther and are indistinguishable when it comes to the internet. They are indistinguishable when it comes to normal, run-of-the-mill computing.
Only higher demand apps like games iMovie, or LightWave cause noticeable difference. Of those, only iMovie is part of the target market of the mini. In that case we do notice how much slower the G3 is at rendering titles, etc, but it's hardly unuseable. I don't use garageband, but I'm sure it probably wouldn't even run on the G3.
And yes, it would be nice not to have to buy a usb hub. Of course, no one says you have to.
Originally posted by Guartho
256 is more than enough for the internet. In my home there's a G4 867 with 768. a G4 iBook 800 with 640, and a B&W G3 with 256. We have wireless broadband in our home. All three machines are running Panther and are indistinguishable when it comes to the internet. They are indistinguishable when it comes to normal, run-of-the-mill computing.
Only higher demand apps like games iMovie, or LightWave cause noticeable difference. Of those, only iMovie is part of the target market of the mini. In that case we do notice how much slower the G3 is at rendering titles, etc, but it's hardly unuseable. I don't use garageband, but I'm sure it probably wouldn't even run on the G3.
And yes, it would be nice not to have to buy a usb hub. Of course, no one says you have to.
Like i said my computer was using 300Mb RAM. Virtual Memory should not have to be used in such a light computer usage.
Every Mac site, every mac expert, suggest 512Mb RAM
Originally posted by lundy
The RAM is available BTO, and two different keyboards and mice are available BTO. You can also buy these wherever you want.
The thing that absolutely kills me is that for years, people complained that they wanted to choose all their own stuff. I'm amazed that there is a whole thread complaining about Apple NOT forcing you to buy what they want you to buy. How messed up is that?
People begged for a $499 Mac, and now they have one.
Order Crucial RAM and have the dealer put it in. Sell the 256 on eBay.
PS/2 connectors? Tsk tsk. There is no WAY you are going to expect Apple to put PS/2 connectors on a machine when USB is their thing.
Why on earth should anyone have to remove a perfectly good chip and sell it on ebay? Thats just ludicrous, it should have come ready to rock with 512. Or the ability to add another chip next to the 256. I mean, come on.
Some folks may have wanted to add their own peripherals, but PC users dont.
And who said Apple should have included PS2 connectors?
Originally posted by steve666
Like i said my computer was using 300Mb RAM. Virtual Memory should not have to be used in such a light computer usage.
Every Mac site, every mac expert, suggest 512Mb RAM
Mac sites and Mac experts are not in the mini's target market. The mini's target market only cares about the perception of speed like my examples. They do not open up terminal and see how much memory is being used. They do not open browser window after browser window after browser window. They do not usually have more than two or three programs open at a time.
Their new Mac mini will run gloriously free of spyware and viruses. They'll revel in its stability and consistently speedy performance. Yes, they will eventually get impatient. When they do, they will know that they bought the bargain Mac and they will not say "This Mac shit sucks." By this time they will be hooked and they will start considering/shopping for a nice iMac or PowerMac. This is the idea.
Originally posted by steve666
Why on earth should anyone have to remove a perfectly good chip and sell it on ebay? Thats just ludicrous, it should have come ready to rock with 512. Or the ability to add another chip next to the 256. I mean, come on.
Some folks may have wanted to add their own peripherals, but PC users dont.
And who said Apple should have included PS2 connectors?
Apple has often done the RAM - shuffle thing. It's old hat with them.
Now tell me exactly what you think the machine should have, and the price.
Besides, I'd wager that a lot of PCs have about 256MB, and XP doesn't exactly thrive in that amount of RAM (although it's not horrible either, in my experience). It'll do.
I'm not suggesting that Apple should have put in a PS/2 port. Eeeuuugh. I am suggesting that they'll have to be ready to deal with people who only heard that it works with their existing keyboard and mouse, and who think PS/2 is a game console. However, I think Apple could have doubled the number of USB ports. That's how Windows PCs have survived—by building the hub into the PC. That's what Windows users will expect.
And, finally, I'm not hysterical about any of this. None of this is GOING TO DOOM TEH APPEL OMG!!1 But it will be rocky, and it will require some handholding of consumers, correcting of misperceptions, recommendations of a pile of little nickle-and-dime widgets to get everything hooked up right (which they'd better have in stock!), etc. Apple is throwing their smallest Mac out into the wilds, where everything does not "just work," where there has been no iMac and no Open Firmware to rid the landscape of ancient legacy connectors.
All I'm saying is that Apple had better be ready for that. The most baffling thing, to me, is the setup they display on the Mac mini's page, that shows the little box plugged into a display, keyboard, mouse, and nothing else. It's truth in advertizing, at least, but you really have to wonder that nobody ever asked, "what about the printer?" Last I checked, people do have printers...
Originally posted by Guartho
<snip> ...And yes, it would be nice not to have to buy a usb hub. Of course, no one says you have to.
I don't know how this is an issue. Modern USB keyboards have a port on them for a mouse and usually another for other low-power devices. That leaves a powered USB port available on the Mac, for a scanner, disk drive or whatever. If you don't have a modern USB keyboard, get with the new millennium.
(Not directed toward you, Guartho,) the nitpicking about this amazing new inexpensive Mac is unbelievable. I'm thrilled to see the Mac mini and fully expect Mac market share to increase because of it.
Originally posted by iDave
I don't know how this is an issue. Modern USB keyboards have a port on them for a mouse and usually another for other low-power devices. That leaves a powered USB port available on the Mac, for a scanner, disk drive or whatever. If you don't have a modern USB keyboard, get with the new millennium.
(Not directed toward you, Guartho,) the nitpicking about this amazing new inexpensive Mac is unbelievable. I'm thrilled to see the Mac mini and fully expect Mac market share to increase because of it.
I was just going to mention keyboards having usb ports for the mouse, and i regularly use the other side of my keyboard for my digital camera. i guess I don't understand why you cheap fools can't be happy? i upgraded to 512 in the ram department on mine for 75 squid and an airport extreme card too. I just don't have an issue after dropping like 3k for my powermac a few years back.
Some of you people are greeeeeedddyyyyyyy
That's a lot more than...say...a$350 HP system--problem is, I can't find any such "system" on the pcmall site. What I can find is a box containing a 2.4celeron with 128 RAM and a CDROM drive and a 40 GB drive for $350. It has no wireless, no modem, no speakers, no DVD, no cdrw, no bluetooth capable, no firewire, no monitor. It **does** have lots of USB ports and an all-important parallel port and yes, a keyboard and a mouse
I looked at Dell, and, unless you are looking at the refurbished models, I can't find anything with a combo drive less than $628. Admittedly the dell has 512Mb of RAM which is important, and more gigahetzes, which is probably not. The monitor is 15".
First point: It is not clear to me that the prices for reaonably equivalent systems are all that much better for PC's. People I know keep citing $300 PC's and no doubt such things exist, but HP and Dell sell lots of $600 systems. Maybe I am missing something on the issue of price.
Second: Retailers other than the Apple Store are gonna put together all sorts of packages (one already is) in which low-priced monitors, memory upgrades etc. are folded in to make the mac more palatable to bargain hunters.
These compnents may be low quality, but we ae talking about appealing to price-conscious people...correct?
Originally posted by doctord118
These compnents may be low quality, but we ae talking about appealing to price-conscious people...correct?
Correct. We are all curious, I think, to see how this affair evolves. It will take time to have some safe conclusions at hand it seems. Perhaps more than a year.
Originally posted by lundy
The thing that absolutely kills me is that for years, people complained that they wanted to choose all their own stuff. I'm amazed that there is a whole thread complaining about Apple NOT forcing you to buy what they want you to buy. How messed up is that?
That's not entirely accurate. People have griped about choosing their own display, upgrading their video card, and/or CPU, not that they didn't get to supply their own Keyboard and mouse (though in fairness the less enlightened have griped about it being only a one button.)
For 499, you can convince me that Video/CPU upgrades aren't really worth it. But you cannot convince me that the lack of easy user serviceable RAM slots (there should be at least two) and airport access helps in any way at all, nor the lack of basic input devices in the box.
It's as if Jobs was forced by Apple politics to take a stab at a headless machine, and has handicapped it out of spite. A machine offered without keyboard and mouse is simply absurd. People were asking him to cut the head off the e/iMac, not to also cut out easy access to RAM and wireless I/O and ports. Why doesn't it at a minimum sport the same ports as an eMac? Where's the mic in? Or for that matter, where are the digital outs given that the mini is such a natural fit for the stereo component rack?
No, they've set it up for failure, but may succeed in spite of the themselves.