On Tuesday, Jobs told the Macworld crowd that "this is the most affordable Mac ever. People who are thinking of switching will have no more excuses."
So far, initial reactions from the public are strongly positive, but a number of people say the price and lack of a keyboard could hamper sales.
"Steve Jobs is the Albert Einstein of the computer industry--business smarts; consumer tastes, tendencies, and trends; and marketing," Russell Rothwell wrote in a post on CNET News.com.
Wrote CNET News.com reader Stan Johnson: "Very cool design. I agree that it is not much of a bargain when you add all the needed gear. I think it is great for Mac lovers. However, one could purchase a more capable PC for the same amount of cash."
Under the hood
For $499, the pint-sized computer comes with a 1.25GHz G4 processor, 256MB of RAM, a 40GB hard drive and a combination CD-burner, DVD-ROM drive. It uses ATI's Radeon 9200 graphics chip, with its own 32MB of graphics memory, and also includes connections such as a FireWire port, two universal serial bus ports, an Ethernet port, a modem and digital and analog ports for connecting a monitor. Apple adds a one-year warranty.
This part contains both my points and your counterarguments( ain't I nice?):
or stereo speakers. An upgraded version with an 80GB drive and a 1.42GHz processor sells for $599.
This puts the two Mac Minis' price tags at about $100 to $150 more than those of similar PCs. Right now, an HP Compaq Presario with an Intel Celeron or AMD Sempron--configured to match the Mini's 256MB of RAM, 40GB hard drive and combination CD-burner-DVD-ROM drive--sells for $399 or $389, after a $50 rebate, via the company's HPshopping Web site.
Gateway, meanwhile, offers a $499 (after rebate) desktop with a competitive configuration to the $599 Mac Mini, but it also comes with a 17-inch monitor, a keyboard and mouse.
When upgrading the Mini, its price gap with the PC widens.
The $499, 1.25GHz Mini, when given 512MB of RAM, an 80GB hard drive and a DVD-burning SuperDrive, as well as a keyboard and mouse, comes to $782. The $599 Mini, when receiving the same RAM, SuperDrive and peripheral upgrades (it already comes with an 80GB drive), lists for $832.
In one example of a similarly outfitted Windows PC, an HP Compaq Presario SR1000Z with an AMD Sempron 3000+, 512MB of RAM, an 80GB drive and a DVD burner comes to $519, before a $50 rebate, according to HPShopping.com. Upgrading the Presario to an Athlon XP 3200+ processor adds $30, bringing the price to $549 before the discount, while adding an Nvidia GeForce FX 5100 graphics card bumps it up another $70 to $619, before the rebate. Similar Intel processor systems from HP and other brand names such as Dell and Gateway were within about $50 of the Presario, before rebates.
When upgraded, the Mac Mini also begins to brush up against budget wireless notebooks.
Apple will likely argue that many Mini buyers already have keyboards and extra monitors on hand. But for those customers looking for a complete package, PCs from companies such as HP also have the advantage of being available in bundles with monitors.
Both Baker and Kay believe that leaving out the input devices could work in the company's favor, or at least not hurt it, because many buyers will be picking up the unit as a second, third or fourth PC. It also comes with Apple software, which often receives raves from people who use it. Apple software and machines have also been far less susceptible to viruses, noted Glaskowsky.
"A lot of PC users who are tired of giving tech support to friends and family members will simply have them go out and get an Apple Mini. At the same time, those who have never used OS X but are intrigued by it are finding that the barrier to entry--cost--has been lifted," wrote Anand Shimpi, editor-in-chief of AnandTech, an online review and benchmarking site.
Apple advocates will also probably argue that the Power processor at the heart of the unit is better than the chips from Intel and AMD. This is a tough argument. First, few benchmarks allow for comparing Power chips to x86 chips, said Kevin Krewell, editor-in-chief of the Microprocessor Report. Second, bargain consumers won't care.
"If I were to ballpark a comparison between the G4 1.25 and an x86 chip, I'd say that it would be slower than any of the midrange x86 CPUs used today (Athlon 64 3000+, Pentium 4 2.8GHz), but it would be competitive with the low-end Celerons," Shimpi wrote. "It's quite tough to draw a direct comparison between the G4 and the current generation x86 architectures. That being said, I'd say it would be competitive with anything found in similarly priced Dell systems."
In the end, the success or failure of the product may not be judged by actual sales. The Mac Mini's main appeal for Apple may turn out to be its use as bait to lure people into Apple stores. Sales reps will then try to upsell them to other models, speculated Kay.
"Overall, retail purchasers should respond to the Mac Mini, flaws and all," Tom King, a technology analyst, wrote in an e-mail. "This should allow fine-tuning of this new product line. It could also open the door to nice 'iPod Mini + Mac Mini' marketing and sales opportunities, especially with the large discounters like Target, Kmart, Wal-Mart and others."
At least one analyst said it may encourage switching.
"We believe the Mac Mini will increase the percentage of iPod-toting Windows users who purchase a Mac by almost threefold," said Charles Wolf, an analyst at Needham and Co.
Bill...i mean steve666 aren't you tired of looking for reasons why it's just no good to you. It's obvious they aren't selling it to you. so technically since you won't and aren't buying one your opinion is just that ...OPINIONS
Myself i bought one so my vote counts and i vote you just give it a rest Stop bashing a product you don't want or need, it's tiresome. I'm tired of everytime i come on this section of the forum, you have 5000 reasons why it sucks. I have one really good reason i believe it doesn't. I bought one
Bill...i mean steve666 aren't you tired of looking for reasons why it's just no good to you. It's obvious they aren't selling it to you. so technically since you won't and aren't buying one your opinion is just that ...OPINIONS
Myself i bought one so my vote counts and i vote you just give it a rest Stop bashing a product you don't want or need, it's tiresome. I'm tired of everytime i come on this section of the forum, you have 5000 reasons why it sucks. I have one really good reason i believe it doesn't. I bought one
Well, lets see:
Actually I do want one. I could use another computer with a CDRW in it and I was hoping the rumors about a $499 computer was true. It was, but as Apple usually does, it finds a way for me to think about whether its worth it or not, instead of making me go "I have to have one"
So, I will wait till the first update of the mini, with Tiger installed. In the meantime I will read reviews and customer opinions of the little sucker, then decide whether to buy one or just buy a G4 tower on ebay.
As for your second part, since this is my thread obviously I will be posting here.
The question is, considering the topic of the thread, why exactly do you keep coming back? I think you like to be bitch slapped
...but as Apple usually does, it finds a way for me to think about whether its worth it or not, instead of making me go "I have to have one"
So, I will wait till the first update of the mini, with Tiger installed.
Well, yeah, duhh, Apple wants you think you "have to have" one of their higher-end models. If you see too many faults with the Mac mini, it's not for you and that's what they're hoping. Lots of other folks will be perfectly satisfied.
The eye-catching, minimalist design is the Mac mini's worst feature for a number of reasons. For starters, the Mac mini only has a single RAM slot. Fortunately, DIMMs can be had in sizes up to 1GB today -- a comfortable enough capacity to run Mac OS X smoothly -- but it means that anyone looking to upgrade the Mac mini either needs to customize their system at the Apple store and pay Apple's exorbitant RAM prices ($75 to upgrade to 512MB, $425 to upgrade to 1GB) or, if they upgrade later, are left with an unused 256MB module. But it's not so easy to upgrade the Mac mini later. In fact, according to Apple, you must take it into an Apple store or authorized reseller and pay them to add any extra RAM, a costly and annoying endeavor. Like the iPod, Apple doesn't want nor does it expect its customers to ever see the inside of their Mac mini.
It doesn't matter if surveys show that 90 percent of PC users never open up their systems or are scared to, the reality is that they usually know someone who can do something as simple as adding RAM. And let's not get into how 256MB is a laughably small amount if you wish to run Mac OS X and any of the iLife '05 components, except for maybe iTunes.
"So, you expect a customer to spend $425 to upgrade a $499 computer to 1GB of RAM?" I asked an Apple product manager on the show floor. "Yes," they curtly replied. And I thought the Mac mini was Apple's push into affordable computing.
In order to give the Mac mini its tiny dimensions, not only did Apple forgo a second RAM slot (or a third, like the Cube had), they also decided to use costlier 2.5-inch hard drives, designed for laptops. This creates a few annoying limitations: first, if you ever want to upgrade the hard drive later (assuming you manage to crack open the case or can pay someone to do so), you're going to be paying a small fortune for the larger hard drive (2.5-inch drives also currently top at 100GB, compared to 400GB for their 3.5-inch counterparts).
A quick check at Pricewatch finds the average 40GB 5400-rpm hard drive (found in the $499 Mac mini) selling for about $65, while the 80GB 5400-rpm drive (found in the $599 Mac mini) is selling for around $120. Looking at 3.5-inch hard drives, $65 buys you a 160GB model these days, while $120 can get you 250GB. Am I missing something here?
Asking the same Mac mini product manager why they settled on using costly notebook drives in a desktop computer, I was told that the 2.5-inch drives met Apple's needs while allowing Mac mini's design to be as small as possible. But would anyone have been less impressed if the Mac mini were three, four, or even five inches high instead of two?
What we're left with is a miniature computer that has even fewer expansion options than is typically associated with Apple products. Even the iBook has an open RAM slot, and the notebook hard drive in a PowerBook can be replaced and upgraded fairly easily by an end user.
Like the current iBooks, the Mac mini uses a Radeon 9200 video card with 32MB of VRAM. This won't be enough to take advantage of Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger's Core Image, nor many of the newer computer games.
Some have said that with the included S-Video/composite video adapter, the Mac mini will find its way into homes already awash with Macs as a media center. I won't pretend this doesn't sound appealing to me, but ideally you'd want wireless peripherals to compliment the experience and eliminate unsightly cable clutter across your coffee table. The Mac mini supports Bluetooth and AirPort Extreme, but if you want both you need to add them as a joint AirPort Extreme + Bluetooth card when you buy the Mac mini -- you won't be able to later. Cost? $129. If you add an AirPort Extreme card and later want Bluetooth as well, you're in a bit of a pinch (assuming you can get this option even added later) and left with an AirPort Extreme card that joins the original 256MB DIMM in the collection of now useless Mac mini parts.
The Mac mini is a decent computer and a fair first attempt for a company that has never produced a $500 system before. It's encouraging that Apple "gets" that a market exists for such a product, I just hope that with a revision down the line will see polish off what I see as the products rough (and costly/annoying) edges.
WOW! I didnt catch that coreimage was not cpmplient with the 9200, this tosses a huge wrench into my plans to buy a mac, maybe i should hold off for a while longer if I cant use tiger on a new mac, then it is not worthg my money at this point it looks like a low end PM for me...and a lot more saveing...and time
...The Mac mini is a decent computer and a fair first attempt for a company that has never produced a $500 system before. It's encouraging that Apple "gets" that a market exists for such a product, I just hope that with a revision down the line will see polish off what I see as the products rough (and costly/annoying) edges.
Wow, I'm so happy to see your last paragraph. Maybe Apple hasn't missed their "target consumer" after all.
As for RAM, I think Apple's 512MB upgrade at $75 is very reasonable. It gives buyers a very usable computer for not much more than they'd pay for third party RAM. The very high price Apple is charging for the Gigabyte upgrade reflects their interest in not making this a high end computer. Why not, make it difficult or expensive to top out the Mac mini? It's another reason for people to consider getting a higher-end model. This is perfectly understandable, IMO.
As for the mobile hard drives Apple is using; Apple is all about cute computers in the consumer space. A very small computer will look amazing to many consumers and they'll want one. I know I did. Plus, perhaps Apple wants leverage to be able to increase their volume purchases of mobile drives, lowering costs for their laptops.
Low-end PCs come complete with everything. The mini doesnt. He is supposed to be selling to PC users, not us.
The mini doesn't come complete with what?! A monitor, kb and mouse! Get over it, you can buy whatever the hell kb, mouse and monitor you want OR you can use the ones you already HAVE!
Clearly, he is selling to PC users...that already have these devices. What IS your point? What do you want...a bundled Lexshti printer??
The mini doesn't come complete with what?! A monitor, kb and mouse! Get over it, you can buy whatever the hell kb, mouse and monitor you want OR you can use the ones you already HAVE!
Clearly, he is selling to PC users...that already have these devices. What IS your point? What do you want...a bundled Lexshti printer??
Imagine, if you will, a PC user bringing home a mini to attach to their keyboard and mouse.
First scenario-
They have PS/@ connectors on their peripherals.
Oops.
Second scenario-
They have USB peripherals but no USB ports on their keyboard since most windows keyboards don't have that feature. Now, they have to go out and buy a USB Hub just to plug in their printer.
Now, try to imagine them Ejecting a CD. Do you think they will know how to do it or will they just get pissed off?
WOW! I didnt catch that coreimage was not cpmplient with the 9200, this tosses a huge wrench into my plans to buy a mac, maybe i should hold off for a while longer if I cant use tiger on a new mac, then it is not worthg my money at this point it looks like a low end PM for me...and a lot more saveing...and time
Yup, wait till the next revision, if there is one. The mini would have to be a success to warrant them improving it.
I think they will sell enough of them to come out with a revision, and my thoughts are that they will try and correct what is missing from all the complaints they are going to recieve-and they will recieve them, IMHO.
I really don't understand the obsession with the upgrade to 1GB. Yeah, if you go for all the bells and whistles, you get soaked. Welcome to sales. Have none of these people never shopped for a car? Or a PC, for that matter? There is always a premium for the top end configuration. The default option will work fine, and the price of the next option (512MB), which is right about where OS X starts getting really happy, is perfectly reasonable.
The lack of Core Image/Core Video acceleration is a) unresolved at this point, and b) irrelevant at this price. The Mac mini will support CI/CV just fine, with AltiVec. Some particularly intensive effects will simply be fast instead of real-time. Not a big deal in any case, and certainly not for $499.
The cost of PCs is only marginally relevant, because any would-be switcher is looking specifically at a Mac. Dell and Gateway don't sell Macs, so what they offer doesn't count. That's the goal of this machine: To strip things down so far that the machine is priced so low that the cost—and therefore, the risk—of trying out a Mac is as low as it can go. As the old Switch campaign attested, Apple is going for the "low hanging fruit" here, for the people who are pretty sure they don't want another PC no matter what the cost is. As BadAndy has said for a long time over at Ars (and I chuckle as I write this, because I thought he was full of it until the mini came out, and I realized he was dead right), the principle feature of this thing is price, because the goal of this thing is to lower the risk of trying out a Mac as far as possible, and the risk involved correlates directly to the price.
The issues I have with the machine mostly have to do with its being tossed into the wild and wooly world of Windows peripherals. These are all solvable problems, but I'm worried that Apple hasn't anticipated them all, and I'm interested to see what sort of changes the Apple Store will undergo. I note that the third-party resellers have all fallen over themselves to solve these problems already.
Well, since it's not specified under the tech-specs page of the Mac mini's hardware section, could provide a link to the specific reference since you know it's on Apple.com.
Well, since it's not specified under the tech-specs page of the Mac mini's hardware section, could provide a link to the specific reference since you know it's on Apple.com.
You're right, it isnt there. i must have gotten it from a link on google i searched under "mac mini reviews"
1) Ok, RAM is low. On my servers 512 is standard ,256 your machine runs, but runs damn slow(even with the 100 MBPS PIPE). Just upgrade it for what? $75 bones and your done.. Saves you time and it will run well in the long run.
2) Buy the KEYBOARD AND MOUSE. If you have the Mac, why not get the nice keyboard and mouse to match - I sure as hell don't want a crap keyboard and mouse on my nice new computer!
I think they did a good job with it, yes they should include the two things above, but whatever.
I like their new idea, and I think I will buy one. (O yah! and that slick little pack of gum too *cough* iPod shuffle)
And this is from the NOVELL guru that runs Linux servers and has a WINDOWS machine.
I like their new idea, and I think I will buy one.
What I like best, is at that price I can afford to buy a new one every year as they're upgraded and sell the previous year's model. Only problem is, it's doubtful the mini will have a G5 by next year, which is when I'll probably have a hankering for a G5.
Comments
On Tuesday, Jobs told the Macworld crowd that "this is the most affordable Mac ever. People who are thinking of switching will have no more excuses."
So far, initial reactions from the public are strongly positive, but a number of people say the price and lack of a keyboard could hamper sales.
"Steve Jobs is the Albert Einstein of the computer industry--business smarts; consumer tastes, tendencies, and trends; and marketing," Russell Rothwell wrote in a post on CNET News.com.
Wrote CNET News.com reader Stan Johnson: "Very cool design. I agree that it is not much of a bargain when you add all the needed gear. I think it is great for Mac lovers. However, one could purchase a more capable PC for the same amount of cash."
Under the hood
For $499, the pint-sized computer comes with a 1.25GHz G4 processor, 256MB of RAM, a 40GB hard drive and a combination CD-burner, DVD-ROM drive. It uses ATI's Radeon 9200 graphics chip, with its own 32MB of graphics memory, and also includes connections such as a FireWire port, two universal serial bus ports, an Ethernet port, a modem and digital and analog ports for connecting a monitor. Apple adds a one-year warranty.
It does not include a keyboard, mouse, display
or stereo speakers. An upgraded version with an 80GB drive and a 1.42GHz processor sells for $599.
This puts the two Mac Minis' price tags at about $100 to $150 more than those of similar PCs. Right now, an HP Compaq Presario with an Intel Celeron or AMD Sempron--configured to match the Mini's 256MB of RAM, 40GB hard drive and combination CD-burner-DVD-ROM drive--sells for $399 or $389, after a $50 rebate, via the company's HPshopping Web site.
Gateway, meanwhile, offers a $499 (after rebate) desktop with a competitive configuration to the $599 Mac Mini, but it also comes with a 17-inch monitor, a keyboard and mouse.
When upgrading the Mini, its price gap with the PC widens.
The $499, 1.25GHz Mini, when given 512MB of RAM, an 80GB hard drive and a DVD-burning SuperDrive, as well as a keyboard and mouse, comes to $782. The $599 Mini, when receiving the same RAM, SuperDrive and peripheral upgrades (it already comes with an 80GB drive), lists for $832.
In one example of a similarly outfitted Windows PC, an HP Compaq Presario SR1000Z with an AMD Sempron 3000+, 512MB of RAM, an 80GB drive and a DVD burner comes to $519, before a $50 rebate, according to HPShopping.com. Upgrading the Presario to an Athlon XP 3200+ processor adds $30, bringing the price to $549 before the discount, while adding an Nvidia GeForce FX 5100 graphics card bumps it up another $70 to $619, before the rebate. Similar Intel processor systems from HP and other brand names such as Dell and Gateway were within about $50 of the Presario, before rebates.
When upgraded, the Mac Mini also begins to brush up against budget wireless notebooks.
Apple will likely argue that many Mini buyers already have keyboards and extra monitors on hand. But for those customers looking for a complete package, PCs from companies such as HP also have the advantage of being available in bundles with monitors.
Both Baker and Kay believe that leaving out the input devices could work in the company's favor, or at least not hurt it, because many buyers will be picking up the unit as a second, third or fourth PC. It also comes with Apple software, which often receives raves from people who use it. Apple software and machines have also been far less susceptible to viruses, noted Glaskowsky.
"A lot of PC users who are tired of giving tech support to friends and family members will simply have them go out and get an Apple Mini. At the same time, those who have never used OS X but are intrigued by it are finding that the barrier to entry--cost--has been lifted," wrote Anand Shimpi, editor-in-chief of AnandTech, an online review and benchmarking site.
Apple advocates will also probably argue that the Power processor at the heart of the unit is better than the chips from Intel and AMD. This is a tough argument. First, few benchmarks allow for comparing Power chips to x86 chips, said Kevin Krewell, editor-in-chief of the Microprocessor Report. Second, bargain consumers won't care.
"If I were to ballpark a comparison between the G4 1.25 and an x86 chip, I'd say that it would be slower than any of the midrange x86 CPUs used today (Athlon 64 3000+, Pentium 4 2.8GHz), but it would be competitive with the low-end Celerons," Shimpi wrote. "It's quite tough to draw a direct comparison between the G4 and the current generation x86 architectures. That being said, I'd say it would be competitive with anything found in similarly priced Dell systems."
In the end, the success or failure of the product may not be judged by actual sales. The Mac Mini's main appeal for Apple may turn out to be its use as bait to lure people into Apple stores. Sales reps will then try to upsell them to other models, speculated Kay.
"Overall, retail purchasers should respond to the Mac Mini, flaws and all," Tom King, a technology analyst, wrote in an e-mail. "This should allow fine-tuning of this new product line. It could also open the door to nice 'iPod Mini + Mac Mini' marketing and sales opportunities, especially with the large discounters like Target, Kmart, Wal-Mart and others."
At least one analyst said it may encourage switching.
"We believe the Mac Mini will increase the percentage of iPod-toting Windows users who purchase a Mac by almost threefold," said Charles Wolf, an analyst at Needham and Co.
Myself i bought one so my vote counts and i vote you just give it a rest
Originally posted by SQUÅSH
Bill...i mean steve666 aren't you tired of looking for reasons why it's just no good to you. It's obvious they aren't selling it to you. so technically since you won't and aren't buying one your opinion is just that ...OPINIONS
Myself i bought one so my vote counts and i vote you just give it a rest
Well, lets see:
Actually I do want one. I could use another computer with a CDRW in it and I was hoping the rumors about a $499 computer was true. It was, but as Apple usually does, it finds a way for me to think about whether its worth it or not, instead of making me go "I have to have one"
So, I will wait till the first update of the mini, with Tiger installed. In the meantime I will read reviews and customer opinions of the little sucker, then decide whether to buy one or just buy a G4 tower on ebay.
As for your second part, since this is my thread obviously I will be posting here.
The question is, considering the topic of the thread, why exactly do you keep coming back? I think you like to be bitch slapped
Originally posted by steve666
...but as Apple usually does, it finds a way for me to think about whether its worth it or not, instead of making me go "I have to have one"
So, I will wait till the first update of the mini, with Tiger installed.
Well, yeah, duhh, Apple wants you think you "have to have" one of their higher-end models. If you see too many faults with the Mac mini, it's not for you and that's what they're hoping. Lots of other folks will be perfectly satisfied.
The eye-catching, minimalist design is the Mac mini's worst feature for a number of reasons. For starters, the Mac mini only has a single RAM slot. Fortunately, DIMMs can be had in sizes up to 1GB today -- a comfortable enough capacity to run Mac OS X smoothly -- but it means that anyone looking to upgrade the Mac mini either needs to customize their system at the Apple store and pay Apple's exorbitant RAM prices ($75 to upgrade to 512MB, $425 to upgrade to 1GB) or, if they upgrade later, are left with an unused 256MB module. But it's not so easy to upgrade the Mac mini later. In fact, according to Apple, you must take it into an Apple store or authorized reseller and pay them to add any extra RAM, a costly and annoying endeavor. Like the iPod, Apple doesn't want nor does it expect its customers to ever see the inside of their Mac mini.
It doesn't matter if surveys show that 90 percent of PC users never open up their systems or are scared to, the reality is that they usually know someone who can do something as simple as adding RAM. And let's not get into how 256MB is a laughably small amount if you wish to run Mac OS X and any of the iLife '05 components, except for maybe iTunes.
"So, you expect a customer to spend $425 to upgrade a $499 computer to 1GB of RAM?" I asked an Apple product manager on the show floor. "Yes," they curtly replied. And I thought the Mac mini was Apple's push into affordable computing.
In order to give the Mac mini its tiny dimensions, not only did Apple forgo a second RAM slot (or a third, like the Cube had), they also decided to use costlier 2.5-inch hard drives, designed for laptops. This creates a few annoying limitations: first, if you ever want to upgrade the hard drive later (assuming you manage to crack open the case or can pay someone to do so), you're going to be paying a small fortune for the larger hard drive (2.5-inch drives also currently top at 100GB, compared to 400GB for their 3.5-inch counterparts).
A quick check at Pricewatch finds the average 40GB 5400-rpm hard drive (found in the $499 Mac mini) selling for about $65, while the 80GB 5400-rpm drive (found in the $599 Mac mini) is selling for around $120. Looking at 3.5-inch hard drives, $65 buys you a 160GB model these days, while $120 can get you 250GB. Am I missing something here?
Asking the same Mac mini product manager why they settled on using costly notebook drives in a desktop computer, I was told that the 2.5-inch drives met Apple's needs while allowing Mac mini's design to be as small as possible. But would anyone have been less impressed if the Mac mini were three, four, or even five inches high instead of two?
What we're left with is a miniature computer that has even fewer expansion options than is typically associated with Apple products. Even the iBook has an open RAM slot, and the notebook hard drive in a PowerBook can be replaced and upgraded fairly easily by an end user.
Like the current iBooks, the Mac mini uses a Radeon 9200 video card with 32MB of VRAM. This won't be enough to take advantage of Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger's Core Image, nor many of the newer computer games.
Some have said that with the included S-Video/composite video adapter, the Mac mini will find its way into homes already awash with Macs as a media center. I won't pretend this doesn't sound appealing to me, but ideally you'd want wireless peripherals to compliment the experience and eliminate unsightly cable clutter across your coffee table. The Mac mini supports Bluetooth and AirPort Extreme, but if you want both you need to add them as a joint AirPort Extreme + Bluetooth card when you buy the Mac mini -- you won't be able to later. Cost? $129. If you add an AirPort Extreme card and later want Bluetooth as well, you're in a bit of a pinch (assuming you can get this option even added later) and left with an AirPort Extreme card that joins the original 256MB DIMM in the collection of now useless Mac mini parts.
The Mac mini is a decent computer and a fair first attempt for a company that has never produced a $500 system before. It's encouraging that Apple "gets" that a market exists for such a product, I just hope that with a revision down the line will see polish off what I see as the products rough (and costly/annoying) edges.
Originally posted by steve666
...The Mac mini is a decent computer and a fair first attempt for a company that has never produced a $500 system before. It's encouraging that Apple "gets" that a market exists for such a product, I just hope that with a revision down the line will see polish off what I see as the products rough (and costly/annoying) edges.
Wow, I'm so happy to see your last paragraph. Maybe Apple hasn't missed their "target consumer" after all.
As for RAM, I think Apple's 512MB upgrade at $75 is very reasonable. It gives buyers a very usable computer for not much more than they'd pay for third party RAM. The very high price Apple is charging for the Gigabyte upgrade reflects their interest in not making this a high end computer. Why not, make it difficult or expensive to top out the Mac mini? It's another reason for people to consider getting a higher-end model. This is perfectly understandable, IMO.
As for the mobile hard drives Apple is using; Apple is all about cute computers in the consumer space. A very small computer will look amazing to many consumers and they'll want one. I know I did. Plus, perhaps Apple wants leverage to be able to increase their volume purchases of mobile drives, lowering costs for their laptops.
Low-end PCs come complete with everything. The mini doesnt. He is supposed to be selling to PC users, not us.
The mini doesn't come complete with what?! A monitor, kb and mouse! Get over it, you can buy whatever the hell kb, mouse and monitor you want OR you can use the ones you already HAVE!
Clearly, he is selling to PC users...that already have these devices. What IS your point? What do you want...a bundled Lexshti printer??
Originally posted by DigitalMonkeyBoy
The mini doesn't come complete with what?! A monitor, kb and mouse! Get over it, you can buy whatever the hell kb, mouse and monitor you want OR you can use the ones you already HAVE!
Clearly, he is selling to PC users...that already have these devices. What IS your point? What do you want...a bundled Lexshti printer??
Imagine, if you will, a PC user bringing home a mini to attach to their keyboard and mouse.
First scenario-
They have PS/@ connectors on their peripherals.
Oops.
Second scenario-
They have USB peripherals but no USB ports on their keyboard since most windows keyboards don't have that feature. Now, they have to go out and buy a USB Hub just to plug in their printer.
Now, try to imagine them Ejecting a CD. Do you think they will know how to do it or will they just get pissed off?
My guess is that they get pissed off.
Command, Control? Where are they?
I think you see my drift
Originally posted by a_greer
WOW! I didnt catch that coreimage was not cpmplient with the 9200, this tosses a huge wrench into my plans to buy a mac, maybe i should hold off for a while longer
Yup, wait till the next revision, if there is one. The mini would have to be a success to warrant them improving it.
I think they will sell enough of them to come out with a revision, and my thoughts are that they will try and correct what is missing from all the complaints they are going to recieve-and they will recieve them, IMHO.
That article I pasted mentioned that the hard drive is 5200rpm. According to Apple it is 4200rpm.
Originally posted by steve666
That article I pasted mentioned that the hard drive is 5200rpm. According to Apple it is 4200rpm.
Link? I've been wondering.
The lack of Core Image/Core Video acceleration is a) unresolved at this point, and b) irrelevant at this price. The Mac mini will support CI/CV just fine, with AltiVec. Some particularly intensive effects will simply be fast instead of real-time. Not a big deal in any case, and certainly not for $499.
The cost of PCs is only marginally relevant, because any would-be switcher is looking specifically at a Mac. Dell and Gateway don't sell Macs, so what they offer doesn't count. That's the goal of this machine: To strip things down so far that the machine is priced so low that the cost—and therefore, the risk—of trying out a Mac is as low as it can go. As the old Switch campaign attested, Apple is going for the "low hanging fruit" here, for the people who are pretty sure they don't want another PC no matter what the cost is. As BadAndy has said for a long time over at Ars (and I chuckle as I write this, because I thought he was full of it until the mini came out, and I realized he was dead right), the principle feature of this thing is price, because the goal of this thing is to lower the risk of trying out a Mac as far as possible, and the risk involved correlates directly to the price.
The issues I have with the machine mostly have to do with its being tossed into the wild and wooly world of Windows peripherals. These are all solvable problems, but I'm worried that Apple hasn't anticipated them all, and I'm interested to see what sort of changes the Apple Store will undergo. I note that the third-party resellers have all fallen over themselves to solve these problems already.
Originally posted by iDave
Link? I've been wondering.
Its at Apple.com
Originally posted by steve666
Its at Apple.com
Well, since it's not specified under the tech-specs page of the Mac mini's hardware section, could provide a link to the specific reference since you know it's on Apple.com.
Originally posted by Guartho
Well, since it's not specified under the tech-specs page of the Mac mini's hardware section, could provide a link to the specific reference since you know it's on Apple.com.
You're right, it isnt there. i must have gotten it from a link on google i searched under "mac mini reviews"
If i find it, I will post it here.
1) Ok, RAM is low. On my servers 512 is standard ,256 your machine runs, but runs damn slow(even with the 100 MBPS PIPE). Just upgrade it for what? $75 bones and your done.. Saves you time and it will run well in the long run.
2) Buy the KEYBOARD AND MOUSE. If you have the Mac, why not get the nice keyboard and mouse to match - I sure as hell don't want a crap keyboard and mouse on my nice new computer!
I think they did a good job with it, yes they should include the two things above, but whatever.
I like their new idea, and I think I will buy one. (O yah! and that slick little pack of gum too *cough* iPod shuffle)
And this is from the NOVELL guru that runs Linux servers and has a WINDOWS machine.
http://www.macworld.com/2005/01/news...view/index.php
Read down, it mentions the size and speed of the hard drive.
Interesting how Apple doesnt mention this in the tech specs on their site
Originally posted by maxhest
I like their new idea, and I think I will buy one.
What I like best, is at that price I can afford to buy a new one every year as they're upgraded and sell the previous year's model. Only problem is, it's doubtful the mini will have a G5 by next year, which is when I'll probably have a hankering for a G5.