On another note watch closely to where the Porn industry at large goes. This may decide the winner far more easier than the other things we're quibbling about.
I think that this is a very salient argument. Was part of the reason that VHS won because of the ease at which the porn industry could put out tapes? (I think there was some licensing issue with Beta that proved a sticking point.)
And the industry certainly helped with the takeoff of DVD (multiple angles, perfect image on pause, chapter skip etc etc).
While I abhor format wars I think that we may actually "benefit" from this. Sony vs Toshiba/Nec is going to bring the price of the players/recorders down faster than if the market had one standard IMO.
I try to draw parallels with the DVD-Audio vs SACD format wars but then I realize that Television is more dominant than HiRez Multichannel sound. Consumers are just fine with their mp3s in stereo.
However just last night I watched a show that was broadcast in HBO HD and standard Def HBO and even on a $1500 rear projection HD Hitachi the HD picture was "much" better. Once you watch HD you don't want to go back to SD.
I think that services like Netfix/Blockbuster Online/Walmart will propel the formats forward if HD-DVD and Blu-Ray movies become available.
I'm already resigned to the notion that I'll need to have both players. It's a bummer but I have to have the movies that I want when I get a HD set likely in 2006. Hell I could see some company actually renting the players for cheap until they come down in price.
At any rate I'm happy to see HD recordings coming. I think you'll be able to buy a 50" high quality screen for $1999 by mid 2006. Lowcost HD will be available to the masses and once they get a taste they won't want to go back.
The problem with HD is you need a HD tv to support it and like it or not the majority of people are still buying SD sets with the expectation that that's what they'll use for at least the next 5 to 10 years. No point recording or watching in HD if you don't have anything to use it with. What will make HD recorders take off is capacity for SD not capacity for HD.
It's just the same as the fact far more people rely on 2.1 sound than 5.1 and don't really see the value in a swap.
I say I find it interesting, because I always see mentioned how HD-DVD is backed by 2 (NEC/Toshiba) while Blu-Ray is backed by many. Looks a little different to me.
That's because they are talking about the major big name companies and Blu-Ray has them in spades where as HD-DVD does not. Most of those companies that are supporting HD-DVD are unknown to us as their products are not intended to be sold outside of China. You know, where VCD is actually a viable format. We are talking about companies that produce very cheap and poorly made players so obviously they want to go with the cheapest format possible. If they can save 1/1000th of a cent they will do so. They shouldn't be the ones leading the charge behind a HD format. Many of them are also looking at various other HD formats like FVD which still use red lasers for the ultimate in cost cutting.
Bottom line: Why should I care if Shenzhen supports HD-DVD when big names like Sony, Pioneer, JVC, Panasonic, Mitsubishi etc. are supporting Blu-Ray? Those are the brands I would have access to. Oh, and don't forget about Apple, Dell and HP. The fact that Microsoft wants to use HD-DVD causes me to instinctively run in the other direction anyway. How about you?
Bottom line: Why should I care if Shenzhen supports HD-DVD when big names like Sony, Pioneer, JVC, Panasonic, Mitsubishi etc. are supporting Blu-Ray? Those are the brands I would have access to. Oh, and don't forget about Apple, Dell and HP. The fact that Microsoft wants to use HD-DVD causes me to instinctively run in the other direction anyway. How about you?
I think I have said it once before, but honestly I could care less which format
"wins". I just want more HD content, and I want it as quickly as possible. I wont be buying any type of next gen player until I see what content is available. I unfortunately am only a college student, so can't afford to go out and purchase 2 next gen players right away. I will probably wait about 6 months, and which ever one has more disks that I would purchase, I will go with that format, for the time being. If it is Blu-Ray, thats fine.
I am just sick of people saying things like "The war is over, Blu-Ray has won" when the war hasn't even started yet. Both formats look great, have minor advantages over the other, but no glaring end-all-be-all feature to declare it the winner just yet. Either format will suit us well as consumers as the next generation of DVD technology.
Well, I'd just wait until combo players become mainstream. I'm sure plenty of companies will take advantage of the format war to release combo decks with a "you don't have to decide" tagline. I think prices will be driven down pretty quickly. At the moment I'm more concerned that Apple releases some new PowerBooks.
Well, I'd just wait until combo players become mainstream. I'm sure plenty of companies will take advantage of the format war to release combo decks with a "you don't have to decide" tagline. I think prices will be driven down pretty quickly. At the moment I'm more concerned that Apple releases some new PowerBooks.
I think at the start, when combo players will be needed, they will be way too expensive. The drives will need 3 optical pickups (DVD, HD-DVD, and Blu-Ray). If a single unit (either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD) starts around $1000, a combo unit will probably be $1500+. I am looking to spend around $5-600 tops.
I think that by the time that "cheap" combo units are available, one format will have won over the market place, and the need for such combo units will be pointless.
I think that by the time that "cheap" combo units are available, one format will have won over the market place, and the need for such combo units will be pointless.
Well one can hope that this is the case. I can't wait that long though. My guess is that we won't see a victor until 5 years at the earliest. I need my HiDef now.
The players will get cheap alright. Once Taiwan and China get the production mojo going the price will plummet.
I'm confused. Even if people who would copy DVD's need to compress it so it is only 10 percent of the original, the quality of the original will be a lot better so 10% will look like a normal DVD. So DVD copiers will stilll be able to copy.
I'm confused. Even if people who would copy DVD's need to compress it so it is only 10 percent of the original, the quality of the original will be a lot better so 10% will look like a normal DVD. So DVD copiers will stilll be able to copy.
Yeah, but that's nothing compared to the high def re-encodings where you just decode and then re-encode to fill the same space. The copy protection on the new DVD's, like on the ones before, is designed to harass the people who actually paid for their content. When will they learn...
(Thinking of switching to blu-ray, probably will. I work at a "nameless" studio)
Warner Bros = HD-DVD
Toshiba = HD-DVD
Paramount Pictures = Blu-Ray (Chose HD-DVD initially, now switched)
Sony = Blu-Ray
Dreamworks = Blu-Ray
Disney = Blu-Ray
MGM = Blu-Ray
Disney said they were non-exclusive and would produce for either. Fox said the same thing. I don't have time to look things up, but last I had read, it was almost dead even, if HD-DVD wasn't ahead by one studio...
Quote:
Pioneer = Blu-Ray
Panasonic = Blu-Ray
LG = Blu-Ray
Yea. Dell is in that group too, but you didn't list them. If you are comparing studios that is one thing, but throwing in random electronics manufacturers means nothing...
If you are comparing studios that is one thing, but throwing in random electronics manufacturers means nothing...
Well the thing is basically every major CD/DVD drive manufacturer is currently backing Blue Ray. If you go to your local store and all the major companies are only producing Blue Ray, which do you buy? Personally I'd say that's why BR will win, the major manufacturers just won't produce the alternative.
(Thinking of switching to blu-ray, probably will. I work at a "nameless" studio)
Warner Bros = HD-DVD
Toshiba = HD-DVD
Paramount Pictures = Blu-Ray (Chose HD-DVD initially, now switched)
Sony = Blu-Ray
Dreamworks = Blu-Ray
Disney = Blu-Ray
MGM = Blu-Ray
Pioneer = Blu-Ray
Panasonic = Blu-Ray
LG = Blu-Ray
Since when did Paramount switch to Blu-Ray? Article/PR please....
As I read, Paramount chose HD-DVD, and have already announced titles for release: Link
EDIT: Dreamworks is under a DVD deal with Universal, so, considering Uni is still with HD-DVD, so is DreamWorks.
AND, Fox has yet to choose either format. All we know is that they got a spot on the BR commitee, and then even said that just because they're on the commitee doesn't mean they chose a format. They are just looking more deeply into the format.
Disney, as was already said, is the only other studio besides Sony to choose the format of Blu-Ray. That contract is non-exclusive so at any time they can switch to HD-DVD, or even start releasing Bambi under VHS, DVD, BR, and HD-DVD
However, while its parent, the Walt Disney Company is to take a seat on the Blu-ray Disc Association's board, Buena Vista said the decision to release product on BD is not exclusive. This pavies the way for parallel releases on HD DVD while the market decides which format - in the pre-recorded content market, at least - will prevail.
And Fox said it will produce for both.
So what webmail called "the scores" looks like he was a little off....
From an average consumer's standpoint, hopefully the format war will be decided by the time prices on the players have dropped to a level that's acceptable, i.e. current DVD player price plus a small premium.
What kind of price are the studios hoping to sell the HD discs for? Will they continue to offer titles in standard DVD? Are HD formats a combo type where it can have both standard and HD content?
Although HD sounds impressive, I guess I'm glad I'm not an early apdopter.
What kind of price are the studios hoping to sell the HD discs for?
I don't think it has been said. My guess is around $30-40 at first (how much were DVD's when they first came to market?)
Quote:
Will they continue to offer titles in standard DVD?
Do studios still create VHS tapes?
Standard DVDs will still be produced for quite a few more years.
Quote:
Are HD formats a combo type where it can have both standard and HD content?
Both players will be abel to play your old content. So whenever you decide to buy a next generation player (1 year or 5 years from now), it will play your existing DVD library, plus all the new formatted disks that are coming out.
If you are asking if a single disk can have both HD and SD content on it, I would ask why does that matter? As mentioned above, DVDs are going to be produced for many years to come (just as VHS tapes were/are produced after DVDs becomes mainstream).
Quote:
Although HD sounds impressive, I guess I'm glad I'm not an early apdopter.
I think if you saw it, you would want to become an early adaptor . I don't know how many people I have talked about HD with, and they said "Oh, it sounds neat, but whatever". Then you show them an HD channel and they are blown away.
For example, Comcast was going to be allowed to service our Apartment complex, and this meant we could get HD. Me and my roommates were talking about what "plans" we would afford, and both of them didn't want to spend the extra $5 for the HD package (we already will have those channels, why pay more...). I told them I would cover the first month, and if they really didn't want it we could cancel. Needless to say, we still have the HD package, and they both will flip to the HD channels first to see if there is anything on before scanning MTV, Comedy Central, etc.
That's not a bad price premium to start out. I'm just waiting to see what happens with my Netflix account.
I'd like to see Netflix move to a two tiered system were for say $24.95 a month I'd get 3 HD or DVD movies out at a time.Unfortunately for them they'll have to stock two different formats.
I think if you saw it, you would want to become an early adaptor . I don't know how many people I have talked about HD with, and they said "Oh, it sounds neat, but whatever". Then you show them an HD channel and they are blown away.
Just to be contrarian: I've seen it, and my reaction was "oh, it looks good, but whatever."
TV, by and large, does nothing for me. The same crap in hi-def does nothing for me, takes up more space, costs more, has hilarious compression and streaming artifacts (in the case of the local digital cable provider, who make sports games look like webcasts of last-generation console sports games) and comes with evil, proprietary DRM (especially in the case of HD-DVD, which has WMA as an optional format) that will make FairPlay look like Ogg Vorbis.
Comments
Originally posted by hmurchison
On another note watch closely to where the Porn industry at large goes. This may decide the winner far more easier than the other things we're quibbling about.
I think that this is a very salient argument. Was part of the reason that VHS won because of the ease at which the porn industry could put out tapes? (I think there was some licensing issue with Beta that proved a sticking point.)
And the industry certainly helped with the takeoff of DVD (multiple angles, perfect image on pause, chapter skip etc etc).
I try to draw parallels with the DVD-Audio vs SACD format wars but then I realize that Television is more dominant than HiRez Multichannel sound. Consumers are just fine with their mp3s in stereo.
However just last night I watched a show that was broadcast in HBO HD and standard Def HBO and even on a $1500 rear projection HD Hitachi the HD picture was "much" better. Once you watch HD you don't want to go back to SD.
I think that services like Netfix/Blockbuster Online/Walmart will propel the formats forward if HD-DVD and Blu-Ray movies become available.
I'm already resigned to the notion that I'll need to have both players. It's a bummer but I have to have the movies that I want when I get a HD set likely in 2006. Hell I could see some company actually renting the players for cheap until they come down in price.
At any rate I'm happy to see HD recordings coming. I think you'll be able to buy a 50" high quality screen for $1999 by mid 2006. Lowcost HD will be available to the masses and once they get a taste they won't want to go back.
It's just the same as the fact far more people rely on 2.1 sound than 5.1 and don't really see the value in a swap.
Originally posted by kupan787
I say I find it interesting, because I always see mentioned how HD-DVD is backed by 2 (NEC/Toshiba) while Blu-Ray is backed by many. Looks a little different to me.
That's because they are talking about the major big name companies and Blu-Ray has them in spades where as HD-DVD does not. Most of those companies that are supporting HD-DVD are unknown to us as their products are not intended to be sold outside of China. You know, where VCD is actually a viable format. We are talking about companies that produce very cheap and poorly made players so obviously they want to go with the cheapest format possible. If they can save 1/1000th of a cent they will do so. They shouldn't be the ones leading the charge behind a HD format. Many of them are also looking at various other HD formats like FVD which still use red lasers for the ultimate in cost cutting.
Bottom line: Why should I care if Shenzhen supports HD-DVD when big names like Sony, Pioneer, JVC, Panasonic, Mitsubishi etc. are supporting Blu-Ray? Those are the brands I would have access to. Oh, and don't forget about Apple, Dell and HP. The fact that Microsoft wants to use HD-DVD causes me to instinctively run in the other direction anyway. How about you?
Originally posted by kupan787
Do you have a link, as I would be interested in reading about that.
Not many details: LINK
Originally posted by 1984
Bottom line: Why should I care if Shenzhen supports HD-DVD when big names like Sony, Pioneer, JVC, Panasonic, Mitsubishi etc. are supporting Blu-Ray? Those are the brands I would have access to. Oh, and don't forget about Apple, Dell and HP. The fact that Microsoft wants to use HD-DVD causes me to instinctively run in the other direction anyway. How about you?
I think I have said it once before, but honestly I could care less which format
"wins". I just want more HD content, and I want it as quickly as possible. I wont be buying any type of next gen player until I see what content is available. I unfortunately am only a college student, so can't afford to go out and purchase 2 next gen players right away. I will probably wait about 6 months, and which ever one has more disks that I would purchase, I will go with that format, for the time being. If it is Blu-Ray, thats fine.
I am just sick of people saying things like "The war is over, Blu-Ray has won" when the war hasn't even started yet. Both formats look great, have minor advantages over the other, but no glaring end-all-be-all feature to declare it the winner just yet. Either format will suit us well as consumers as the next generation of DVD technology.
Well, I'd just wait until combo players become mainstream. I'm sure plenty of companies will take advantage of the format war to release combo decks with a "you don't have to decide" tagline. I think prices will be driven down pretty quickly. At the moment I'm more concerned that Apple releases some new PowerBooks.
Originally posted by 1984
Well, I'd just wait until combo players become mainstream. I'm sure plenty of companies will take advantage of the format war to release combo decks with a "you don't have to decide" tagline. I think prices will be driven down pretty quickly. At the moment I'm more concerned that Apple releases some new PowerBooks.
I think at the start, when combo players will be needed, they will be way too expensive. The drives will need 3 optical pickups (DVD, HD-DVD, and Blu-Ray). If a single unit (either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD) starts around $1000, a combo unit will probably be $1500+. I am looking to spend around $5-600 tops.
I think that by the time that "cheap" combo units are available, one format will have won over the market place, and the need for such combo units will be pointless.
I think that by the time that "cheap" combo units are available, one format will have won over the market place, and the need for such combo units will be pointless.
Well one can hope that this is the case. I can't wait that long though. My guess is that we won't see a victor until 5 years at the earliest. I need my HiDef now.
The players will get cheap alright. Once Taiwan and China get the production mojo going the price will plummet.
Universal = HD-DVD
(Thinking of switching to blu-ray, probably will. I work at a "nameless" studio)
Warner Bros = HD-DVD
Toshiba = HD-DVD
Paramount Pictures = Blu-Ray (Chose HD-DVD initially, now switched)
Sony = Blu-Ray
Dreamworks = Blu-Ray
Disney = Blu-Ray
MGM = Blu-Ray
Pioneer = Blu-Ray
Panasonic = Blu-Ray
LG = Blu-Ray
Originally posted by nd32k3
I'm confused. Even if people who would copy DVD's need to compress it so it is only 10 percent of the original, the quality of the original will be a lot better so 10% will look like a normal DVD. So DVD copiers will stilll be able to copy.
Yeah, but that's nothing compared to the high def re-encodings where you just decode and then re-encode to fill the same space. The copy protection on the new DVD's, like on the ones before, is designed to harass the people who actually paid for their content. When will they learn...
Originally posted by webmail
The scores:
Universal = HD-DVD
(Thinking of switching to blu-ray, probably will. I work at a "nameless" studio)
Warner Bros = HD-DVD
Toshiba = HD-DVD
Paramount Pictures = Blu-Ray (Chose HD-DVD initially, now switched)
Sony = Blu-Ray
Dreamworks = Blu-Ray
Disney = Blu-Ray
MGM = Blu-Ray
Disney said they were non-exclusive and would produce for either. Fox said the same thing. I don't have time to look things up, but last I had read, it was almost dead even, if HD-DVD wasn't ahead by one studio...
Pioneer = Blu-Ray
Panasonic = Blu-Ray
LG = Blu-Ray
Yea. Dell is in that group too, but you didn't list them. If you are comparing studios that is one thing, but throwing in random electronics manufacturers means nothing...
Originally posted by kupan787
If you are comparing studios that is one thing, but throwing in random electronics manufacturers means nothing...
Well the thing is basically every major CD/DVD drive manufacturer is currently backing Blue Ray. If you go to your local store and all the major companies are only producing Blue Ray, which do you buy? Personally I'd say that's why BR will win, the major manufacturers just won't produce the alternative.
Originally posted by webmail
The scores:
Universal = HD-DVD
(Thinking of switching to blu-ray, probably will. I work at a "nameless" studio)
Warner Bros = HD-DVD
Toshiba = HD-DVD
Paramount Pictures = Blu-Ray (Chose HD-DVD initially, now switched)
Sony = Blu-Ray
Dreamworks = Blu-Ray
Disney = Blu-Ray
MGM = Blu-Ray
Pioneer = Blu-Ray
Panasonic = Blu-Ray
LG = Blu-Ray
Since when did Paramount switch to Blu-Ray? Article/PR please....
As I read, Paramount chose HD-DVD, and have already announced titles for release: Link
EDIT: Dreamworks is under a DVD deal with Universal, so, considering Uni is still with HD-DVD, so is DreamWorks.
AND, Fox has yet to choose either format. All we know is that they got a spot on the BR commitee, and then even said that just because they're on the commitee doesn't mean they chose a format. They are just looking more deeply into the format.
Disney, as was already said, is the only other studio besides Sony to choose the format of Blu-Ray. That contract is non-exclusive so at any time they can switch to HD-DVD, or even start releasing Bambi under VHS, DVD, BR, and HD-DVD
HD-DVD:
Paramount Home Entertainment
Warner Home Video
Universal Studios Home Entertainment
HBO
New Line Cinema
Blu-Ray:
Walt Disney Pictures
Television and the entertainment properties of Sony
However, the Disney deal is not totally exclusive (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/12...backs_blu-ray/):
However, while its parent, the Walt Disney Company is to take a seat on the Blu-ray Disc Association's board, Buena Vista said the decision to release product on BD is not exclusive. This pavies the way for parallel releases on HD DVD while the market decides which format - in the pre-recorded content market, at least - will prevail.
And Fox said it will produce for both.
So what webmail called "the scores" looks like he was a little off....
What kind of price are the studios hoping to sell the HD discs for? Will they continue to offer titles in standard DVD? Are HD formats a combo type where it can have both standard and HD content?
Although HD sounds impressive, I guess I'm glad I'm not an early apdopter.
Originally posted by OldCodger73
What kind of price are the studios hoping to sell the HD discs for?
I don't think it has been said. My guess is around $30-40 at first (how much were DVD's when they first came to market?)
Will they continue to offer titles in standard DVD?
Do studios still create VHS tapes?
Standard DVDs will still be produced for quite a few more years.
Are HD formats a combo type where it can have both standard and HD content?
Both players will be abel to play your old content. So whenever you decide to buy a next generation player (1 year or 5 years from now), it will play your existing DVD library, plus all the new formatted disks that are coming out.
If you are asking if a single disk can have both HD and SD content on it, I would ask why does that matter? As mentioned above, DVDs are going to be produced for many years to come (just as VHS tapes were/are produced after DVDs becomes mainstream).
Although HD sounds impressive, I guess I'm glad I'm not an early apdopter.
I think if you saw it, you would want to become an early adaptor
For example, Comcast was going to be allowed to service our Apartment complex, and this meant we could get HD. Me and my roommates were talking about what "plans" we would afford, and both of them didn't want to spend the extra $5 for the HD package (we already will have those channels, why pay more...). I told them I would cover the first month, and if they really didn't want it we could cancel. Needless to say, we still have the HD package, and they both will flip to the HD channels first to see if there is anything on before scanning MTV, Comedy Central, etc.
That's not a bad price premium to start out. I'm just waiting to see what happens with my Netflix account.
I'd like to see Netflix move to a two tiered system were for say $24.95 a month I'd get 3 HD or DVD movies out at a time.Unfortunately for them they'll have to stock two different formats.
Originally posted by kupan787
I think if you saw it, you would want to become an early adaptor
Just to be contrarian: I've seen it, and my reaction was "oh, it looks good, but whatever."
TV, by and large, does nothing for me. The same crap in hi-def does nothing for me, takes up more space, costs more, has hilarious compression and streaming artifacts (in the case of the local digital cable provider, who make sports games look like webcasts of last-generation console sports games) and comes with evil, proprietary DRM (especially in the case of HD-DVD, which has WMA as an optional format) that will make FairPlay look like Ogg Vorbis.
Sorry, no sale.