I never got into Metroid Prime, even. I diligently played Halo 2 with a friend who can never find anyone to play with him in co-op last weekend and it was like pulling teeth.
I've been wondering about this, don't keyboards and mice exist for the current PS2? Doesn't the PS3 have 6 usb ports, couldn't keyboards and mice be an easy upgrade for the PS3?
Sony must know that there are alot of PC gamers that don't play consoles because of the controllers. I'm one of them. Well Im not a gamer, but i do play around now and again. However, if the PS3 could use keys and mice, I'd not hesitate to get one and dump the PC for good.
I assume that that why they are doing USB ports. There aren't that many things that use USB and make sense to be connected. Maybe they will surprise us, but I can't imagine they would attach USB ports and not have keyboards/mice attachable. I'm still surprised that they are putting in six though; that seems like a lot.
I think I remember reading somewhere that the new Playstation World (online) would allow competition with computer players.
Computers have used the keyboard and mouse because those are the best standardized controllers on the platform. It's hard to build a game around any other form of control, simply because that isn't well defined on computers.
Now I like keyboards, I think they're great for computer tasks, I wonder if they persist in PC gaming simply because they fill a void (standardized controllers)
On a console, where this is well defined, game control, even for FPS is easily solved. Halo and Goldeneye prove it. The only genre that really benefits from a mouse is RTS.
If you come from one or the other, I can see how you might like what you're used to
All of Sony's demos, except Epic's Unreal demo, the EA Sports demos, and Phil Harrison's technical demos were ALL FMV.
The Killzone 2 footage was rendered by two FMV houses in the UK.
If you expect in game footage to look like that, you're deluding yourself I'm afraid. Remember Sony's claims that PS2 would be able to 'render Toy Story in realtime'. We all know how weak the hardware turned out to be.
The Xbox 360 demos at E3 are all running realtime on real hardware, although that hardware happens to be 2.5ghz Power Mac G5s with X800s inside them. 1/3 of the power of the final system.
From what I have seen and heard PS3 has the edge on CPU grunt, but GPU ability is an unknown quantity. I suspect that once the hardware is finished for both platforms and developers are using them to a good proportion of their potential, it will take a very trained eye to spot any differences between the two platforms' graphical impact.
As usual it will come down to which system receives the most hype and the most must have games. MS will certainly have a far better online experience but online still represents a small proportion of console gamers.
Nintendo's Revolution looks to be an entirely different system. Most likely the least powerful of the three, but you need only look at DS - a thriving platform for innovation and new ideas, vs PSP - same old PS2 games reheated, to see that system power is not the largest factor in building fun games.
With a controller/joystick, you have to control both the direction that you want to move the crosshair in and also the speed at which you want to move in that direction, whereas with a mouse you simply point where you want to the crosshair to be. This is much more direct control, and theoretically, better. Theoretically, because it is entirely possible that a controller gamer be able to aim faster than a mouse gamer, but even for someone who uses and is good at both, it is difficult to guage how much "skill" they're using for one vs. the other.
The advantage of using a keyboard is quite obviously, more buttons. That way you can have each action be a different button, and rarely if ever need to use menus (previous/next weapon, up/down selection.) As long as you keep track of what weapons are loaded, you can very quickly switch to another weapon in the middle of a firefight.
I'm liking the Nintendo too. Most fun, best first party. Nintendo seems to be closer to understanding games as fun activities rather than games as voyeurism through technology...
wasn't it the head of nintendo who said "what happens when games can't get any more real? you had better have good games..." (that's a paraphrase, even though i used quotes)
Computers have used the keyboard and mouse because those are the best standardized controllers on the platform. It's hard to build a game around any other form of control, simply because that isn't well defined on computers.
Now I like keyboards, I think they're great for computer tasks, I wonder if they persist in PC gaming simply because they fill a void (standardized controllers)
On a console, where this is well defined, game control, even for FPS is easily solved. Halo and Goldeneye prove it. The only genre that really benefits from a mouse is RTS.
If you come from one or the other, I can see how you might like what you're used to
I really prefer mouse and keyboard for FPS and RTS. Game pads are fine for simple arcade games, but for games like the FPS Unreal Tournament I need more control then they can provide (I normally use 25 of the keys on my keyboard and a 5 button scroll mouse when I play UT). Halo was about as good as they will ever get with a console FPS, and it is still much better on a PC.
If they do allow USB keyboards and mice on the PS3 I will probably buy one.
In the end, I suspect the most powerful system won't necessarily be the winner. The Xbox was the most powerful last time, and it was eaten alive by the PS2.
A lot of that stuff from PS3 was pre-rendered, but I wouldn't be too surprised if later PS3 games hit levels close to that. It's got some damned impressive hardware, especially once developers figure out how to properly utilize Cell.
I don't think that the keyboard confers any real advantage for games. The mouse, OTOH, makes targetting easier in some environments. However, where are you going to get the desk needed to operate that mouse? Are you just going to mouse over your lap?
What's needed is a joystick/touchpad that behaves like a mouse in terms of acceleration and attack. You can't mouse from the couch!
From what I have seen and heard PS3 has the edge on CPU grunt, but GPU ability is an unknown quantity. I suspect that once the hardware is finished for both platforms and developers are using them to a good proportion of their potential, it will take a very trained eye to spot any differences between the two platforms' graphical impact.
Most developers will happily tell you cell is easily the more impressive console but the Xbox is the easier to code for. PS3 has a notable edge if the developers decide to utilise it. For Sony they may well make the effort but it'll be interesting how cross platform titles play out. I suspect many will favour one platform or another.
Quote:
Originally posted by kotatsu
500 USD is way too high for a console. The other features are going to have to be extremely compelling. Look at Canada. It would cost 649 plus tax. Not too many kids are going to put down 800 Canadian for a games system plus one game or controller. NOT gonna happen. Not too many parents are going to shell out that cash either. Not with an Xbox360 selling for half, and a Ninitendo possibly selling for a third of that!
Microsoft isn't going to sell at half the price and Nintendo isn't going to sell at a third the price. That just isn't in line with reality. Add to that they don't get the majority of their sales at that very early stage they get them after the price drops come through. Prices will drop and I would be very surprised if Sony doesn't continue to be the largest player, albeit by a smaller margin to Microsoft.
Fan boy much? Don't worry, the world won't end if PS3 doesn't sell a bazillion units. People are merely talking about what they read on the web, and speculating about the possibilities.
IF the machine is too expensive, and much later than M$, it could definitely run second outside of Japan, especially if the other guys get some good franchises out first; and have good launch libraries. Depending on M$ and Nintendo, Sony could lose ground in Japan as well. Nothing is guaranteed.
500 starting price would hurt it -- and if that's the entry price, they fully deserve to be hurt, hard.
Both Sony people on G4 E3 coverage said that the killzone video was a real-time capture of the equivalent of the real hardward. I have no trouble believing that, as the other demos (where they moved around with a controller) were about as good.
Comments
The control scheme just really works for me.
Originally posted by groverat
FPS belongs on a PC with a mouse and keyboard.
I never got into Metroid Prime, even. I diligently played Halo 2 with a friend who can never find anyone to play with him in co-op last weekend and it was like pulling teeth.
I've been wondering about this, don't keyboards and mice exist for the current PS2? Doesn't the PS3 have 6 usb ports, couldn't keyboards and mice be an easy upgrade for the PS3?
Sony must know that there are alot of PC gamers that don't play consoles because of the controllers. I'm one of them. Well Im not a gamer, but i do play around now and again. However, if the PS3 could use keys and mice, I'd not hesitate to get one and dump the PC for good.
I think I remember reading somewhere that the new Playstation World (online) would allow competition with computer players.
Computers have used the keyboard and mouse because those are the best standardized controllers on the platform. It's hard to build a game around any other form of control, simply because that isn't well defined on computers.
Now I like keyboards, I think they're great for computer tasks, I wonder if they persist in PC gaming simply because they fill a void (standardized controllers)
On a console, where this is well defined, game control, even for FPS is easily solved. Halo and Goldeneye prove it. The only genre that really benefits from a mouse is RTS.
If you come from one or the other, I can see how you might like what you're used to
The Killzone 2 footage was rendered by two FMV houses in the UK.
If you expect in game footage to look like that, you're deluding yourself I'm afraid. Remember Sony's claims that PS2 would be able to 'render Toy Story in realtime'. We all know how weak the hardware turned out to be.
The Xbox 360 demos at E3 are all running realtime on real hardware, although that hardware happens to be 2.5ghz Power Mac G5s with X800s inside them. 1/3 of the power of the final system.
From what I have seen and heard PS3 has the edge on CPU grunt, but GPU ability is an unknown quantity. I suspect that once the hardware is finished for both platforms and developers are using them to a good proportion of their potential, it will take a very trained eye to spot any differences between the two platforms' graphical impact.
As usual it will come down to which system receives the most hype and the most must have games. MS will certainly have a far better online experience but online still represents a small proportion of console gamers.
Nintendo's Revolution looks to be an entirely different system. Most likely the least powerful of the three, but you need only look at DS - a thriving platform for innovation and new ideas, vs PSP - same old PS2 games reheated, to see that system power is not the largest factor in building fun games.
The advantage of using a keyboard is quite obviously, more buttons. That way you can have each action be a different button, and rarely if ever need to use menus (previous/next weapon, up/down selection.) As long as you keep track of what weapons are loaded, you can very quickly switch to another weapon in the middle of a firefight.
Originally posted by Matsu
I'm liking the Nintendo too. Most fun, best first party. Nintendo seems to be closer to understanding games as fun activities rather than games as voyeurism through technology...
wasn't it the head of nintendo who said "what happens when games can't get any more real? you had better have good games..." (that's a paraphrase, even though i used quotes)
Originally posted by Matsu
I prefer game pads for gaming.
Computers have used the keyboard and mouse because those are the best standardized controllers on the platform. It's hard to build a game around any other form of control, simply because that isn't well defined on computers.
Now I like keyboards, I think they're great for computer tasks, I wonder if they persist in PC gaming simply because they fill a void (standardized controllers)
On a console, where this is well defined, game control, even for FPS is easily solved. Halo and Goldeneye prove it. The only genre that really benefits from a mouse is RTS.
If you come from one or the other, I can see how you might like what you're used to
I really prefer mouse and keyboard for FPS and RTS. Game pads are fine for simple arcade games, but for games like the FPS Unreal Tournament I need more control then they can provide (I normally use 25 of the keys on my keyboard and a 5 button scroll mouse when I play UT). Halo was about as good as they will ever get with a console FPS, and it is still much better on a PC.
If they do allow USB keyboards and mice on the PS3 I will probably buy one.
What's needed is a joystick/touchpad that behaves like a mouse in terms of acceleration and attack. You can't mouse from the couch!
Originally posted by kotatsu
From what I have seen and heard PS3 has the edge on CPU grunt, but GPU ability is an unknown quantity. I suspect that once the hardware is finished for both platforms and developers are using them to a good proportion of their potential, it will take a very trained eye to spot any differences between the two platforms' graphical impact.
Most developers will happily tell you cell is easily the more impressive console but the Xbox is the easier to code for. PS3 has a notable edge if the developers decide to utilise it. For Sony they may well make the effort but it'll be interesting how cross platform titles play out. I suspect many will favour one platform or another.
Originally posted by kotatsu
500 USD is way too high for a console. The other features are going to have to be extremely compelling. Look at Canada. It would cost 649 plus tax. Not too many kids are going to put down 800 Canadian for a games system plus one game or controller. NOT gonna happen. Not too many parents are going to shell out that cash either. Not with an Xbox360 selling for half, and a Ninitendo possibly selling for a third of that!
Microsoft isn't going to sell at half the price and Nintendo isn't going to sell at a third the price. That just isn't in line with reality. Add to that they don't get the majority of their sales at that very early stage they get them after the price drops come through. Prices will drop and I would be very surprised if Sony doesn't continue to be the largest player, albeit by a smaller margin to Microsoft.
I don't believe it, mind you. I think the real difference will be 349 vs 399, or 299 vs 399 at most.
Originally posted by Matsu
Web reports are quoting 299 for an Xbox 360 vs 499 for the PS3. 300 vs 500. That would make Xbox 50 quid shy of being exactly half the price.
I don't believe it, mind you. I think the real difference will be 349 vs 399, or 299 vs 399 at most.
one thing's shure ... M$ will undercut the PS3 at least for the 1st year IMHO
Originally posted by kotatsu
Remember Sony's claims that PS2 would be able to 'render Toy Story in realtime'.]
Please stop repeating that lie.
Originally posted by Matsu
Web reports are quoting 299 for an Xbox 360 vs 499 for the PS3. 300 vs 500.
No they are not.
The only thing about the price of the PS3 that is known at this time is Sony has stated it will be less than roughly $465.
Originally posted by Telomar
Most developers will happily tell you cell is easily the more impressive console but the Xbox is the easier to code for.
No we, console engineers, won't.
Listening to what random Visual C/DirectX guys isn't going to be any more useful this console cycle than it was the last one.
IF the machine is too expensive, and much later than M$, it could definitely run second outside of Japan, especially if the other guys get some good franchises out first; and have good launch libraries. Depending on M$ and Nintendo, Sony could lose ground in Japan as well. Nothing is guaranteed.
500 starting price would hurt it -- and if that's the entry price, they fully deserve to be hurt, hard.
I will buy both, probably.