MS and Intel back HD DVD over Blu-ray

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  • Reply 201 of 297
    e1618978e1618978 Posts: 6,075member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by hmurchison

    The PS3 is absolutely NO threat to standard desktop computers or the Microsoftian Hegemony. Hell it won't even beat Apple.



    It would be easier to convince me if you provided evidence to back up your assertions.



    The PS3 will meet most people's needs for computing.
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  • Reply 202 of 297
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,691member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Elixir

    you're not understanding. i know that people regard halo as xbox's savior.



    what i was talking about is how poorly halo was recieved during its showing at e3.



    Sony's machine (ps2) was never anythign to marvel at. it couldve easily lost that first year to dreamcast if it weren't for the dvd drive. there was nothing "next gen" about it.



    the xbox comes out and has way better specs. yet it still struggles because of the name Sony carries and the franchises.



    but my god it was microsofts FIRST console. think about that for a second.... how long has nintendo been around?





    people put too much faith into sony.




    I was never impressed with the X Box. It is slightly better than the PS2 in graphics only, not "way better". Also, even though the PS2 was supposed to be harder to program for than the X Box, most programmers prefered it in the end.



    If you look at games that have come out on both, there is no real difference. Programmers won't have a game on one platform look better than on another.



    Even for games that are on one or the other there isn't any difference the vast majority of times.



    If the X Box had been put out by any other company, it would have been discontinued because of its incredible losses. No other company makes enough profit from its other areas that it could find a reason to support such a loser as the X Box. MS is expected to lose money on the 360 as well.



    Both Sony and Nintendo made a profit on their machines and games.



    People in the industry expect the PS3 to outsell the 360 even though it will be 8 or more months later than the 360.



    Again, it's hard to think of something as being a success if the company making it can lose over $4 billion on it over the few years it's out. If MS didn't make a 70% profit in its OS and Office divisions, it could never sustain the losses.



    To me this is a failure. It's a typical monopoly cheat. MS throws vast amounts of money down the drain hoping that it can outlast its competitors. It's done that with Palm. It's hoping to do that here as well, but they make so many mistakes!



    They've been told that they MUST have 100% backwards compatibility, as Sony does. But they said that they wouldn't have any. They were criticized severely. Then they said that they would have some. But nobody knows what, or how well they will work. It's a totally different chipset and OS! Sony has continuity



    Then they said that they would have a built-in HD. Then they said that they wouldn't. Now it can be added later. Hi def player? At first maybe, then no. But Sony will.



    They were claiming that they would have 45 games upon release, now MAYBE 26. Sony will have many more, plus all the PS 2 games to get people started.



    It's a mess.
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  • Reply 203 of 297
    kupan787kupan787 Posts: 586member
    For the HD-DVD haters, maybe something to sway you?



    No Region codes for HD-DVD



    This is a big deal for a lot of people.
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  • Reply 204 of 297
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,691member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by e1618978

    It would be easier to convince me if you provided evidence to back up your assertions.



    The PS3 will meet most people's needs for computing.




    In what way?



    You have to turn it into a computer. It's not one out of the box. you need the keyboard and mouse. So, fine, you get them. now what?



    Can you use Quicktime, or Windows Medea Player, or Real video? If not, then you've stuck yourself. "Most people" won't want to use something that isn't mainstream.



    How about word processors? Or Office, even Student/Teacher Edition? Will it run? That's one of the most popular pieces of software out there?



    Music apps? Photo apps? Home movie editing apps such as iMovie?



    Digital cameras, will they just hook up? Scanners? Tablets? USB and Firewire hubs? TV tuners? Card readers?



    So, how will it work again?



    And actually, as you are claiming that it will, you are the one required to supply the evidence, not the one doing the doubting.
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  • Reply 205 of 297
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,691member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by kupan787

    For the HD-DVD haters, maybe something to sway you?



    No Region codes for HD-DVD



    This is a big deal for a lot of people.




    That's easy. It can be done for BluRay as well. The codes are embedded in the disks themselves. Just put ALL, and it's done.
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  • Reply 206 of 297
    kidredkidred Posts: 2,402member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by kupan787

    For the HD-DVD haters, maybe something to sway you?



    No Region codes for HD-DVD



    This is a big deal for a lot of people.




    I'm not a hater, but this still does nothing for me as I don't buy or have need for DVDs out of my region.
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  • Reply 207 of 297
    e1618978e1618978 Posts: 6,075member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by melgross

    And actually, as you are claiming that it will, you are the one required to supply the evidence, not the one doing the doubting.



    There are plenty of people using Linux, and they seem to be able to handle all of these tasks just fine. The PS3 will also run Linux, and all Sony needs to do is include a few pre-compiled apps, and it would be to their advantage to do so.



    http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/06...s_6127219.html



    "Since E3, Sony Computer Entertainment president Ken Kutaragi has been calling the PlayStation 3 an 'entertainment supercomputer' rather than a gaming console."
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  • Reply 208 of 297
    kupan787kupan787 Posts: 586member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by melgross

    That's easy. It can be done for BluRay as well. The codes are embedded in the disks themselves. Just put ALL, and it's done.



    I know it is easy to do, but the fact that they wont be included at all is huge. DVD content providers can do ALL now as well, but do they? No, they stick region codes on their disks. Has anyone in the BluRay camp come out and said anything about region codes? I don't think so (if so, I am sure the BluRay supporters would be all over it). So don't brush this off as "no big deal" until BluRay comes out saying something one way or the other.
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  • Reply 209 of 297
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,691member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by e1618978

    There are plenty of people using Linux, and they seem to be able to handle all of these tasks just fine. The PS3 will also run Linux, and all Sony needs to do is include a few pre-compiled apps, and it would be to their advantage to do so.



    http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/06...s_6127219.html



    "Since E3, Sony Computer Entertainment president Ken Kutaragi has been calling the PlayStation 3 an 'entertainment supercomputer' rather than a gaming console."




    Yes, it was fun to port Linux over. But Linux itself has terrible support for commerical standards. Just go to any Linux sites and read the complaints and whining about it. Until the Linux distro leaders are willing to pay for commercial licenses, which is anathma to them, then Linux itself will have sucky support for most things.



    Even where there is support for certain software codecs, hardware drivers are something else. there would have to be drivers for the PS2 or 3. Where are the drivers for the PS 2?



    Just guessing that Sony would get licenses for popular commercial programs and convince the companies to port them to the PS? MS? No way! Apple? Ha!



    Linux? Who cares?



    EDIT: Sorry, I just now read the link. It's not very clear, is it? Sony may, or may not, supply a HD with the PS3. So it may, or may not have Linux. If it's on A HD, which Linux distro will it be? It still doesn't answer the driver question, or the compatibility questions I brought up..



    Oh, the article is wrong. The 360 does NOT have a HD as standard. It's in the $100 upgrade.
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  • Reply 210 of 297
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,445member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by e1618978

    It would be easier to convince me if you provided evidence to back up your assertions.



    The PS3 will meet most people's needs for computing.




    Nay. PC running Windows are the defacto standard. The burden of proof lies with you. However I'll give you some basic reasons.



    1. The Cell processor isn't designed to be a general purpose computer.



    2. Open Office has absolutely NO market penetration in business or home.



    3. Despite the dreams we all have Microsoft is in no danger of losing their perch anytime soon. In fact with Vista and Office 12 coming I doubt that Apple or Open Office are able to make any serious inroads beyond where they are currently.



    Region Encoding



    There's really no need for it anymore. Both formats should scrap it. The future is rapidly moving to digital theaters and the ability to do simultaneous movie release. Today you have only so many cannisters of film that can be made and sent out. Digital can be beamed by satellite to equipped theaters wordwide
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  • Reply 211 of 297
    e1618978e1618978 Posts: 6,075member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by melgross

    Even where there is support for certain software codecs, hardware drivers are something else. there would have to be drivers for the PS2 or 3. Where are the drivers for the PS 2?



    The PS3 has the advantage of a fixed hardware platform - all of the hardware is the same, and once they write all the drivers that they need, that is the end of the job.



    Even just a web browser and plugins by itself in the PS3 would reduce computer sales dramatically.
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  • Reply 212 of 297
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,691member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by kupan787

    I know it is easy to do, but the fact that they wont be included at all is huge. DVD content providers can do ALL now as well, but do they? No, they stick region codes on their disks. Has anyone in the BluRay camp come out and said anything about region codes? I don't think so (if so, I am sure the BluRay supporters would be all over it). So don't brush this off as "no big deal" until BluRay comes out saying something one way or the other.



    There is no such thing as being included. It's up to the studios. If they don't do it fine. Personally I don't think it's such a big deal. Even today many releases don't have region encoding. More companies are doing simultaneous release. That's all it was really for anyway.



    By the way, region encoding is built into the HD DVD standard, just like BluRay. They made a marketing decision to declare they weren't going to do it.
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  • Reply 213 of 297
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,691member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by e1618978

    The PS3 has the advantage of a fixed hardware platform - all of the hardware is the same, and once they write all the drivers that they need, that is the end of the job.



    Even just a web browser and plugins by itself in the PS3 would reduce computer sales dramatically.




    That's all nonsense. The fixed platform is the biggest DISadvantage. As the computing world wizzes by, the PS3 will be left behind.



    That's most likely one of the reasons why Apple didn't use it.



    Web browsing? Good joke!



    You're making a big mistake here in targeting the wrong audience.



    The vast number of people you seem to think would like this are those very people who won't or can't afford to spend a lot of money on a computer set up. Those people have small TV's that have poor resolution, contrast, and color for computer use. Why do you think that every other piece of equipment that has ever come out to allow people to browse the internet and use e-mail has failed? Because after they have done it for a week or a month, they have turned it off in disgust.



    The people who do have a large hi-rez TV monitor also have a large hi-rez computer monitor connected to their computer.



    The only people who are interested in this kind of thing are the hobbyists. How many of them are there? Couple hundred thousand at most?



    78% of all households in the US have a computer and more than half of those have two or more. Where is the rest of the market for this after the hobbyists then?
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  • Reply 214 of 297
    e1618978e1618978 Posts: 6,075member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by melgross

    Web browsing? Good joke!



    We will see. I think that you could put together a compelling package of software on the PS3 that would suit most people's needs. The PS3 will be faster than most current PCs, and we really don't need faster hardware, or greater video resolution ever.
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  • Reply 215 of 297
    kupan787kupan787 Posts: 586member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by melgross

    There is no such thing as being included.



    I think Mr Yamada begs to differ:



    From the linked article:



    Quote:

    "[...] HD DVD probably won?t contain any region playback controls.? Of course there?s still that ?probably? in there, but it?s nice to see someone up there realizes how ridiculous DVD region codes really are.



    So it wont contain any region playback controls. Sounds to me like it isn't being included...



    Quote:

    [B]It's up to the studios. If they don't do it fine. Personally I don't think it's such a big deal./b]



    Um, but if it isn't an option, how is it up to the studios? If the ability to differentiate region codes doesn't exists, the studios can slap them on their disks all they want, but the players will just ignore them.



    Quote:

    Even today many releases don't have region encoding.



    Like what movies? All the movies I buy still are region encoded.
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  • Reply 216 of 297
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,691member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by kupan787

    I think Mr Yamada begs to differ:



    From the linked article:







    So it wont contain any region playback controls. Sounds to me like it isn't being included...







    Um, but if it isn't an option, how is it up to the studios? If the ability to differentiate region codes doesn't exists, the studios can slap them on their disks all they want, but the players will just ignore them.







    Like what movies? All the movies I buy still are region encoded.




    You're getting some of this backwards.



    It's IN the standard. They meant that they PROBABLY wouldn't do it. But they MIGHT. How is that possible? Because it's IN the standard. They might all AGREE not to do it. I'll bet that the ability to read the codes is still in the chips going in the players. Your own quote doesn't say that they won't do it either you know.



    BluRay is the same. It's IN the standard. Might they do it? Sure. Might they not do it? Sure. They just haven't said. What I meant is that if the BluRay association doesn't declare either way, then it would be up to the studios.



    I'm not going to look through all my DVD's now, but I have a few without codes.
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  • Reply 217 of 297
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,691member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by e1618978

    We will see. I think that you could put together a compelling package of software on the PS3 that would suit most people's needs. The PS3 will be faster than most current PCs, and we really don't need faster hardware, or greater video resolution ever.



    Such as?



    And from your last sentence, I'm beginning to think that this is a joke post after all.
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  • Reply 218 of 297
    e1618978e1618978 Posts: 6,075member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by melgross

    Such as?



    And from your last sentence, I'm beginning to think that this is a joke post after all.




    Such as a web browser, with full compliment of plug-ins, news reader, email reader, p-to-p function (unlikely), open office, a picture viewer, a video player, along with the game functions.



    And no - I was not joking. The resolutions of todays monitors approach the limit of human eyesight, and few people use more than a couple percentage points of the processing power of their computers.



    The PS3 is as compelling as a limited computer as the Mac Mini is, and it will be more than 10x faster.
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  • Reply 219 of 297
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,691member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by e1618978

    Such as a web browser, with full compliment of plug-ins, news reader, email reader, p-to-p function (unlikely), open office, a picture viewer, a video player, along with the game functions.



    And no - I was not joking. The resolutions of todays monitors approach the limit of human eyesight, and few people use more than a couple percentage points of the processing power of their computers.



    The PS3 is as compelling as a limited computer as the Mac Mini is, and it will be more than 10x faster.




    But just saying "a browser" isn't really showing that one will be supplied. Who is working on one? Which distro of Linux will we supposedly see? Open Ofice won't work on the Cell. Neither will any other program. They have to be ported over. Look at everything Apple had to do to make that possible. No one knows whether Sony has been writing such software. Sony has been known for rather poor software development.



    Even if you think that OO will be ported, how long would it take? THe new 2 version isn't even available on the Mac as yet. Neither is ver. 1.1.5! And the Mac certainly has vastly more possible users than the PS3 will have.



    It's not just a compile away. Have you seen the compiler? Sony isn't even done with the tools necessary to get games finished.



    People who might use this won't be using a computer monitor, as I said. They will be using a TV - just the way ALL PS2's are being used. This will be either in the living room or in a family room, for those who have one. No one is going to buy a cheap 17" monitor to play PS 3 games on. People would laugh them to death.



    If you think a crappy TV is going to have high enough resolution, think again.



    This is all pie in the sky.
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  • Reply 220 of 297
    cakecake Posts: 1,010member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by hmurchison

    Region Encoding



    There's really no need for it anymore. Both formats should scrap it. The future is rapidly moving to digital theaters and the ability to do simultaneous movie release. Today you have only so many cannisters of film that can be made and sent out. Digital can be beamed by satellite to equipped theaters wordwide




    Simultaneous releases aren't as easy as that.

    Scripts have to be translated and approved. Dialog has to be shot, edited and mixed against the M&E stem. Then the Foley has to be shot and mixed.

    All this is done in territory.



    Then the audio is sent to the studio sound department for the conform and mix to final picture.



    Picture may need to be re-worked for different regions (You cannot have headbuts shown in the UK, for example). This would necessitate separate audio stems for each different picture cut and, therefore, different mix sessions.



    All of this can take months to coordinate and that's if things go perfectly.

    There have been innumerable times where we receive bad elements and then territory has to re-supply.



    There are hundreds of issues involved in getting a film to market which is why simultaneous releases won't happen in the near future.
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