As I've been saying *repeatedly* in this thread, I fully agree that there needs to be a generalized backup solution shipped with the OS. I'm not entirely sure how anyone could mis-interpret otherwise.
And this thread is pretty much done, as far as I can tell. If no one has anything of actual content to add...
you are not the only one beating their head against a wall. As many have said, simply copying the iPhoto library folder to an external HD is NOT a backup solution. The proof? When you copy that folder back, all the iPhoto 'links' are gone. No album data. Multiple pictures if original edited (even a simple rotation).
Look, I'll put it differently. In Word, for example, you create a document. It is one file. In finder you can see it. To back it up copy it (or use a backup program) somewhere and you're done.0.
iPhoto hides all the files from you - it creates multiple copies you know nothing about. You are not supposed to!
So when the 'backup' is copied back you DO NOT end up with the position you started with. I keep repeating ad nauseum that my iPhoto library now has at least double the actual photos I've made due to all these duplicates appearing.
Why is this hard to understand? I mentioned earlier that I use Silverkeeper as my backup program. It does not achieve its aims due to something in iPhoto - because of that it is up to iPhoto's creaters to give us a backup routine that works.
BTW .Macs Backup - is there anyone here who can confirm that they successfully restored an iPhoto library using this product, where the library did have a significant number of edited pictures?
Regards,
David
PS I refuse to buy more backup programs until I know it can do what I need, otherwise I might as well stick with Silverkeeper.
you are not the only one beating their head against a wall. As many have said, simply copying the iPhoto library folder to an external HD is NOT a backup solution. The proof? When you copy that folder back, all the iPhoto 'links' are gone. No album data. Multiple pictures if original edited (even a simple rotation).
Are you sure something didn't go wrong?
I just copied one of my iPhoto libraries to an external drive. Then copied it back to the original drive. Everything seems fine. I can even "Revert to Original" on an image I changed before copying it over.
Was that a one-time thing, or is it reproducible for you?
Also, what about selecting your library in iPhoto and clicking the Burn button. Does that not work?
Burning to optical doesn't preserve the metadata, which is what most people want, me included.
David, I don't know what to tell you, I've never had the problem you're experiencing, and apparently most other people have had it work as well. When the anecdotal evidence indicates you're in the minority, maybe it's time to look to local problems? I'm more than willing to help you figure out what's going on, but it might be best done over PM until a solution is reached to share with the group.
I ran into another issue last night that archiving would solve - merging libraries. It would allow you to move photos *with metadata* out of one library on one machine, and add them to another, preserving that metadata. This is what's really needed - the ability to save photos with metadata. iTunes accomplishes this by using the ID3 tags, so that the info is always with the file. I'm still trying to figure out why iPhoto doesn't use the EXIM data - as I understand it, EXIM is an acceptable part of JPEG, RAW, GIF, PDF, and basically any file iPhoto will run into, so why isn't it being used? Anyone know?
well, obviously it did go wrong! Sorry, couldn't resist.
I think the problem is when you are copying the folder back to iPhoto when the iPhoto is a new install on a new HD. So the only way for me to see if I can reproduce the problem would be to reinstall iPhoto from scratch.
I'm not sure if I want to do that as I've already spent several weeks cleaning up my library, removing all the duplicate images (and I'm only 50% through the library). If it goes wrong again then I'll have to redo it.
Kickaha, I may be in the minority, but how many people have restored the library to a fresh version of iPhoto?
well, obviously it did go wrong! Sorry, couldn't resist.
I think the problem is when you are copying the folder back to iPhoto when the iPhoto is a new install on a new HD. So the only way for me to see if I can reproduce the problem would be to reinstall iPhoto from scratch.
I'm not sure if I want to do that as I've already spent several weeks cleaning up my library, removing all the duplicate images (and I'm only 50% through the library). If it goes wrong again then I'll have to redo it.
Kickaha, I may be in the minority, but how many people have restored the library to a fresh version of iPhoto?
Regards,
David
You're probably going to hate this, but I did *precisely* that last night. My wife's hard drive had a problem, so I did the recover/reformat/reinstall/restore dance. Took the opportunity to play with it a bit to try and reproduce your situation.
Reformatted hard drive, fresh installation of iPhoto, copied the folder right back where it was, and... it all worked exactly as I would have hoped.
:}
The only thing I can think of is that maybe you backed up from one version of iPhoto, say iPhoto 4, upgraded to iPhoto 5, then restored?
This is what's really needed - the ability to save photos with metadata. iTunes accomplishes this by using the ID3 tags, so that the info is always with the file. I'm still trying to figure out why iPhoto doesn't use the EXIM data - as I understand it, EXIM is an acceptable part of JPEG, RAW, GIF, PDF, and basically any file iPhoto will run into, so why isn't it being used? Anyone know?
Here's the deal. iPhoto stores metadata not in the image file itself but instead in a seperate location. I don't know where.
Picasa stores metadata in the image file itself. That means it's completely portable. I never have to worry about losing the data I attach to an image. If I copy a file from Windows to my Mac that I added keywords to in Picasa then Spotlight will index the metadata. Further, iPhoto will see the keywords. However, Apple provides no method to embed metadata. This is very unfortunate. I have little use for iPhoto until they do. By the way, there are ways to embed metadata in OS X. Informator is one program that will do it. It's not terribly efficient though and it doesn't work very well on Intel Macs.
Microsoft Vista includes an easy way to add keywords to files. They got it right this time. The keywords are embedded, not added to a database and indexed.
The interface for adding keywords in Picasa is also MUCH more efficient than the one in iPhoto. If you have hundreds of keywords, the selection method in iPhoto is pretty much unusable.
Here's the deal. iPhoto stores metadata not in the image file itself but instead in a seperate location. I don't know where.
Picasa stores metadata in the image file itself. That means it's completely portable. I never have to worry about losing the data I attach to an image. If I copy a file from Windows to my Mac that I added keywords to in Picasa then Spotlight will index the metadata. Further, iPhoto will see the keywords. However, Apple provides no method to embed metadata. This is very unfortunate. I have little use for iPhoto until they do. By the way, there are ways to embed metadata in OS X. Informator is one program that will do it. It's not terribly efficient though and it doesn't work very well on Intel Macs.
Microsoft Vista includes an easy way to add keywords to files. They got it right this time. The keywords are embedded, not added to a database and indexed.
The interface for adding keywords in Picasa is also MUCH more efficient than the one in iPhoto. If you have hundreds of keywords, the selection method in iPhoto is pretty much unusable.
Would be nice to have a hierarchical list of keyword like Aperture...
...although, we're talking about iPhoto here: a consumer app. Picasa's downfall will be adding complexity to the app beyond joe shmoe's needs.
Would be nice to have a hierarchical list of keyword like Aperture...
...although, we're talking about iPhoto here: a consumer app. Picasa's downfall will be adding complexity to the app beyond joe shmoe's needs.
Consider this. In Picasa, keywording ability is hidden altogether unless you open the keyword dialog from one of the menus yet it remains better than iPhoto.
One thing iPhoto does much better than Picasa is searching. Picasa only has very rudimentary searching built in. You cannot exclude items that have certain metadata.
Picasa is much more robust in terms of the number of images it can handle. I am not sure but I think it accomplishes this by treating each folder of images like a new database.
Picasa has a cool interface and animations that you would expect from Apple, not Google.
The latest version of iPhoto kills Picasa. Please let this thread be dead.
Uh, no it doesn't and saying something like that is not going to end the thread.
I'll summarize my main issues with iPhoto (latest version of course):
- It doesn't handle metadata properly and it's interface for adding metadata is too cumbersome. Picasa wins hands down here. And for me, this is the whole point of using a cataloging program. I don't need the photo editing...I use Photoshop for that. iPhoto does nothing for me that I can't accomplish with smart folders.
- It cannot handle nearly the number of photos that Picasa can before massive slowdowns. And this is on my shiny new 2GHz MacBook Pro vs. Picasa 2.0 on an 2 year old AMD desktop.
By the way, I hope you understand that I want Apple to make iPhoto better. I know they probably won't read this but the squeaky wheel gets greased. Users can help dictate what features are worked on for the next version and I am just hoping they are going to improve on the areas I outlined above instead of just adding new features I don't need.
Uh, no it doesn't and saying something like that is not going to end the thread.
I'll summarize my main issues with iPhoto (latest version of course):
- It doesn't handle metadata properly and it's interface for adding metadata is too cumbersome. Picasa wins hands down here. And for me, this is the whole point of using a cataloging program. I don't need the photo editing...I use Photoshop for that. iPhoto does nothing for me that I can't accomplish with smart folders.
- It cannot handle nearly the number of photos that Picasa can before massive slowdowns. And this is on my shiny new 2GHz MacBook Pro vs. Picasa 2.0 on an 2 year old AMD desktop.
By the way, I hope you understand that I want Apple to make iPhoto better. I know they probably won't read this but the squeaky wheel gets greased. Users can help dictate what features are worked on for the next version and I am just hoping they are going to improve on the areas I outlined above instead of just adding new features I don't need.
Well, you see, the world doesn't revolve around a single person and, as an unfortunate side effect, features that *you* want may not necessarily be features that 90% of the world wants.
What I suggest is that you send Apple feedback...if enough people want better metadata handling and faster handling of pictures, Apple will do whatever is necessary to add this in the next version of iPhoto.
I'm curious though, how many pictures do you have and how is iPhoto '06 slow? It's been nothing but fast here...and I've got a 5 year old computer.
Comments
And this thread is pretty much done, as far as I can tell. If no one has anything of actual content to add...
Originally posted by Kickaha
If no one has anything of actual content to add...
That would be you. And you little play of semantics. It's not backup, but archiving.
Anyway, I'm all done with this thread. So long, dudes.
Originally posted by Gene Clean
That would be you. And you little play of semantics. It's not backup, but archiving.
Anyway, I'm all done with this thread. So long, dudes.
It's hardly semantics; he's using those words to mean distinctly different things.
you are not the only one beating their head against a wall. As many have said, simply copying the iPhoto library folder to an external HD is NOT a backup solution. The proof? When you copy that folder back, all the iPhoto 'links' are gone. No album data. Multiple pictures if original edited (even a simple rotation).
Look, I'll put it differently. In Word, for example, you create a document. It is one file. In finder you can see it. To back it up copy it (or use a backup program) somewhere and you're done.0.
iPhoto hides all the files from you - it creates multiple copies you know nothing about. You are not supposed to!
So when the 'backup' is copied back you DO NOT end up with the position you started with. I keep repeating ad nauseum that my iPhoto library now has at least double the actual photos I've made due to all these duplicates appearing.
Why is this hard to understand? I mentioned earlier that I use Silverkeeper as my backup program. It does not achieve its aims due to something in iPhoto - because of that it is up to iPhoto's creaters to give us a backup routine that works.
BTW .Macs Backup - is there anyone here who can confirm that they successfully restored an iPhoto library using this product, where the library did have a significant number of edited pictures?
Regards,
David
PS I refuse to buy more backup programs until I know it can do what I need, otherwise I might as well stick with Silverkeeper.
Originally posted by iMac David
Kickaha,
you are not the only one beating their head against a wall. As many have said, simply copying the iPhoto library folder to an external HD is NOT a backup solution. The proof? When you copy that folder back, all the iPhoto 'links' are gone. No album data. Multiple pictures if original edited (even a simple rotation).
Are you sure something didn't go wrong?
I just copied one of my iPhoto libraries to an external drive. Then copied it back to the original drive. Everything seems fine. I can even "Revert to Original" on an image I changed before copying it over.
Was that a one-time thing, or is it reproducible for you?
Also, what about selecting your library in iPhoto and clicking the Burn button. Does that not work?
David, I don't know what to tell you, I've never had the problem you're experiencing, and apparently most other people have had it work as well. When the anecdotal evidence indicates you're in the minority, maybe it's time to look to local problems? I'm more than willing to help you figure out what's going on, but it might be best done over PM until a solution is reached to share with the group.
I ran into another issue last night that archiving would solve - merging libraries. It would allow you to move photos *with metadata* out of one library on one machine, and add them to another, preserving that metadata. This is what's really needed - the ability to save photos with metadata. iTunes accomplishes this by using the ID3 tags, so that the info is always with the file. I'm still trying to figure out why iPhoto doesn't use the EXIM data - as I understand it, EXIM is an acceptable part of JPEG, RAW, GIF, PDF, and basically any file iPhoto will run into, so why isn't it being used? Anyone know?
Are you sure something didn't go wrong?
well, obviously it did go wrong! Sorry, couldn't resist.
I think the problem is when you are copying the folder back to iPhoto when the iPhoto is a new install on a new HD. So the only way for me to see if I can reproduce the problem would be to reinstall iPhoto from scratch.
I'm not sure if I want to do that as I've already spent several weeks cleaning up my library, removing all the duplicate images (and I'm only 50% through the library). If it goes wrong again then I'll have to redo it.
Kickaha, I may be in the minority, but how many people have restored the library to a fresh version of iPhoto?
Regards,
David
Originally posted by iMac David
Kickaha, I may be in the minority, but how many people have restored the library to a fresh version of iPhoto?
I think this could be the problem - I've only ever restored to the current version of iPhoto - it shouldn't make a lot of difference though.
Originally posted by iMac David
well, obviously it did go wrong! Sorry, couldn't resist.
I think the problem is when you are copying the folder back to iPhoto when the iPhoto is a new install on a new HD. So the only way for me to see if I can reproduce the problem would be to reinstall iPhoto from scratch.
I'm not sure if I want to do that as I've already spent several weeks cleaning up my library, removing all the duplicate images (and I'm only 50% through the library). If it goes wrong again then I'll have to redo it.
Kickaha, I may be in the minority, but how many people have restored the library to a fresh version of iPhoto?
Regards,
David
You're probably going to hate this, but I did *precisely* that last night. My wife's hard drive had a problem, so I did the recover/reformat/reinstall/restore dance. Took the opportunity to play with it a bit to try and reproduce your situation.
Reformatted hard drive, fresh installation of iPhoto, copied the folder right back where it was, and... it all worked exactly as I would have hoped.
:}
The only thing I can think of is that maybe you backed up from one version of iPhoto, say iPhoto 4, upgraded to iPhoto 5, then restored?
Perhaps when a new iPhoto is released I'll consider touching it again. Until then, nuh-uh, no way, I'm not going near it.
This is what's really needed - the ability to save photos with metadata. iTunes accomplishes this by using the ID3 tags, so that the info is always with the file. I'm still trying to figure out why iPhoto doesn't use the EXIM data - as I understand it, EXIM is an acceptable part of JPEG, RAW, GIF, PDF, and basically any file iPhoto will run into, so why isn't it being used? Anyone know?
Here's the deal. iPhoto stores metadata not in the image file itself but instead in a seperate location. I don't know where.
Picasa stores metadata in the image file itself. That means it's completely portable. I never have to worry about losing the data I attach to an image. If I copy a file from Windows to my Mac that I added keywords to in Picasa then Spotlight will index the metadata. Further, iPhoto will see the keywords. However, Apple provides no method to embed metadata. This is very unfortunate. I have little use for iPhoto until they do. By the way, there are ways to embed metadata in OS X. Informator is one program that will do it. It's not terribly efficient though and it doesn't work very well on Intel Macs.
Microsoft Vista includes an easy way to add keywords to files. They got it right this time. The keywords are embedded, not added to a database and indexed.
The interface for adding keywords in Picasa is also MUCH more efficient than the one in iPhoto. If you have hundreds of keywords, the selection method in iPhoto is pretty much unusable.
Originally posted by Daffy_Duck
Bringing an old thread back from the dead...
Here's the deal. iPhoto stores metadata not in the image file itself but instead in a seperate location. I don't know where.
Picasa stores metadata in the image file itself. That means it's completely portable. I never have to worry about losing the data I attach to an image. If I copy a file from Windows to my Mac that I added keywords to in Picasa then Spotlight will index the metadata. Further, iPhoto will see the keywords. However, Apple provides no method to embed metadata. This is very unfortunate. I have little use for iPhoto until they do. By the way, there are ways to embed metadata in OS X. Informator is one program that will do it. It's not terribly efficient though and it doesn't work very well on Intel Macs.
Microsoft Vista includes an easy way to add keywords to files. They got it right this time. The keywords are embedded, not added to a database and indexed.
The interface for adding keywords in Picasa is also MUCH more efficient than the one in iPhoto. If you have hundreds of keywords, the selection method in iPhoto is pretty much unusable.
Would be nice to have a hierarchical list of keyword like Aperture...
...although, we're talking about iPhoto here: a consumer app. Picasa's downfall will be adding complexity to the app beyond joe shmoe's needs.
Originally posted by kim kap sol
Would be nice to have a hierarchical list of keyword like Aperture...
...although, we're talking about iPhoto here: a consumer app. Picasa's downfall will be adding complexity to the app beyond joe shmoe's needs.
Consider this. In Picasa, keywording ability is hidden altogether unless you open the keyword dialog from one of the menus yet it remains better than iPhoto.
One thing iPhoto does much better than Picasa is searching. Picasa only has very rudimentary searching built in. You cannot exclude items that have certain metadata.
Picasa is much more robust in terms of the number of images it can handle. I am not sure but I think it accomplishes this by treating each folder of images like a new database.
Picasa has a cool interface and animations that you would expect from Apple, not Google.
Is it possible to change the date somehow in iPhoto - I haven't see how to in the previous versions.
Cheers,
David
Originally posted by kcmac
The latest version of iPhoto kills Picasa. Please let this thread be dead.
Uh, no it doesn't and saying something like that is not going to end the thread.
I'll summarize my main issues with iPhoto (latest version of course):
- It doesn't handle metadata properly and it's interface for adding metadata is too cumbersome. Picasa wins hands down here. And for me, this is the whole point of using a cataloging program. I don't need the photo editing...I use Photoshop for that. iPhoto does nothing for me that I can't accomplish with smart folders.
- It cannot handle nearly the number of photos that Picasa can before massive slowdowns. And this is on my shiny new 2GHz MacBook Pro vs. Picasa 2.0 on an 2 year old AMD desktop.
By the way, I hope you understand that I want Apple to make iPhoto better. I know they probably won't read this but the squeaky wheel gets greased. Users can help dictate what features are worked on for the next version and I am just hoping they are going to improve on the areas I outlined above instead of just adding new features I don't need.
Originally posted by Daffy_Duck
Uh, no it doesn't and saying something like that is not going to end the thread.
I'll summarize my main issues with iPhoto (latest version of course):
- It doesn't handle metadata properly and it's interface for adding metadata is too cumbersome. Picasa wins hands down here. And for me, this is the whole point of using a cataloging program. I don't need the photo editing...I use Photoshop for that. iPhoto does nothing for me that I can't accomplish with smart folders.
- It cannot handle nearly the number of photos that Picasa can before massive slowdowns. And this is on my shiny new 2GHz MacBook Pro vs. Picasa 2.0 on an 2 year old AMD desktop.
By the way, I hope you understand that I want Apple to make iPhoto better. I know they probably won't read this but the squeaky wheel gets greased. Users can help dictate what features are worked on for the next version and I am just hoping they are going to improve on the areas I outlined above instead of just adding new features I don't need.
Well, you see, the world doesn't revolve around a single person and, as an unfortunate side effect, features that *you* want may not necessarily be features that 90% of the world wants.
What I suggest is that you send Apple feedback...if enough people want better metadata handling and faster handling of pictures, Apple will do whatever is necessary to add this in the next version of iPhoto.
I'm curious though, how many pictures do you have and how is iPhoto '06 slow? It's been nothing but fast here...and I've got a 5 year old computer.
Originally posted by kim kap sol
I'm curious though, how many pictures do you have and how is iPhoto '06 slow? It's been nothing but fast here...and I've got a 5 year old computer.
Enough to cause it to slow down. Not sure how many exactly but I take a lot of pictures. I'll take your advice and contact Apple.