The whole point to cache is that is is much faster than main memory. It also doesn't have the delays associated with having to go to main memory. The information in cache is known, so the cpu doesn't have to search through the cache to find what it wants. It just gets it. Very little delay involved.
But, what about the statement that it leads to a shortened cpu life?
Heh I wasn't the one that made that statement :-P .... asking the wrong person
but my guess is we're only about a quarter (max) away from the PM's successor's (MP? ) release....
so what do y'all think the specs will roughly be?
low end
dual dual 2,5GHz conroe/woodcrest?
mid
dual dual 2,7GHz conroe/woodcrest?
top
dual dual 3Ghz conroe/woodcrest? (do they even clock that fast already?)
FSB, cache etc speculation aside, which chips are available now or w/i a month or so that would at least match the current PPC based models in terms of performance..... are there chips available today from Intel at a similar price range that will kick the quad G5 in the knackers ? ? ?
Mass rollout of Woodcrest comes in June. Apple has to deliver the nextgen Powermacs by late June or they'll get lost in the shuffle. Everyone...and I mean everyone with workstation/server products is gearing up for Woodcrest.
Woodcrests come in 1.86/2.0/2.33/2.66/3.0 GHz speeds. Based on the pricing, I'd bet on Quad-2.0, Quad-2.33, Quad-2.66, simply because 2 of the 2.33 chips aren't gonna fit in the budget for a $2000 computer. I could see the top of the line affording 2 X 3.00 GHz, just to do it, though.
Woodcrests come in 1.86/2.0/2.33/2.66/3.0 GHz speeds. Based on the pricing, I'd bet on Quad-2.0, Quad-2.33, Quad-2.66, simply because 2 of the 2.33 chips aren't gonna fit in the budget for a $2000 computer. I could see the top of the line affording 2 X 3.00 GHz, just to do it, though.
Conroe isn't multi-processor. They'll be relatively cheap, but they'll be standard for mid-range to high-end desktops, not workstations.
Yes but remember, apple gets HUGE discounts from bulk. So it could still be possible to go 2.66.
I wouldn't count out 2x3ghz either... that'd really stick it to IBM for not delivering, switching to intel directly to 3ghz... steve's like that you know
Yes but remember, apple gets HUGE discounts from bulk. So it could still be possible to go 2.66.
I wouldn't count out 2x3ghz either... that'd really stick it to IBM for not delivering, switching to intel directly to 3ghz... steve's like that you know
Hmm...so I guess we won't see the PowerMac being released before August...you're right about Steve. I know he's itching to go up on stage and finally exclaim "We're at 3GHz! And only Intel could bring us there" just to stick it to IBM. Releasing the 3GHz machine without an announcement or with a delayed announcement just wouldn't do it for Steve.
I hope Steve proves me wrong. I want a new computer today*.
The new servers available with Intel Xeon 5100 and 5000 series processors will be shipping to customers in late June and include the HP ProLiant DL140, DL360 and DL380 rack-optimized servers, the ProLiant ML150, ML350 and ML370 expansion-optimized servers, and the HP ProLiant BL20p server blade.
My emphasis added. Granted Apple "could" wait to the first week of Aug and WWDC to announce but by then workstation/server using Woodcrest will have been shipping for almost 6 weeks. I'd not expect too much fanfare with Apple joining the party over a month late.
I wouldn't count out 2x3ghz either... that'd really stick it to IBM for not delivering, switching to intel directly to 3ghz... steve's like that you know
You know Steve is going to rub that in their faces BIG time! My hats off to intel already, but that is the icing on the cake.
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
The Powermacs are coming before August. ... My emphasis added. Granted Apple "could" wait to the first week of Aug and WWDC to announce but by then workstation/server using Woodcrest will have been shipping for almost 6 weeks. I'd not expect too much fanfare with Apple joining the party over a month late.
I don't think Apple is all that concerned about 6 weeks. Maybe they will announce Xserves before then to sweeten the pot, and get people anxious with an end note like: "See you all at WWDC", but I still think Apple will hold out on the PowerMac until then. I think It's the Principal of the 3GHz thing at WWDC that has all the appeal for Apple. Developers have not forgotten, and neither did Apple. I think developers want to hear it, and SJ is more than happy to oblige them.
Ok... so has anyone even determined if the mac pro will be sporting conroe or woodcrest? I mean from the sound of it... the mac pro's should have woodcrest. If they didn't only the xserve would have woodcrest, does that make sense?
don't think Apple is all that concerned about 6 weeks. Maybe they will announce Xserves before then to sweeten the pot, and get people anxious with an end note like: "See you all at WWDC", but I still think Apple will hold out on the PowerMac until then. I think It's the Principal of the 3GHz thing at WWDC that has all the appeal for Apple. Developers have not forgotten, and neither did Apple. I think developers want to hear it, and SJ is more than happy to oblige them.
Why wouldn't they be concerned. They uses the same hardware that every PC manf is using. It's going to look a bit odd that they are joining the party 6 weeks late. Apple had leeway to delay products when they had their own platform. Now they just will look laggardly. I think Xserve would be fine for WWDC...Powermac replacements too late.
3Ghz is nothing at this level clients want more proof of performance that a simply mhz metric. Every Tier 1 vendor will have Woodcrest parts shipping late June. Apple not being there means they've missed the bus.
Why wouldn't they be concerned. They uses the same hardware that every PC manf is using. It's going to look a bit odd that they are joining the party 6 weeks late. Apple had leeway to delay products when they had their own platform. Now they just will look laggardly. I think Xserve would be fine for WWDC...Powermac replacements too late.
3Ghz is nothing at this level clients want more proof of performance that a simply mhz metric. Every Tier 1 vendor will have Woodcrest parts shipping late June. Apple not being there means they've missed the bus.
I absolutely agree with you. I believe Apple is intel's biggest client now with dell leaving. If anything apple could be EARLY with these announcements.... much like the macbook pro was with yonah. I believe they were the first yonah computers shipping.
I mean come'on folks. WWDC is a ways away Apple's STILL a company that has earnings to make. You don't hold off announcing a product that's ready to ship for half a quarter because you want to try and make an impact at a tradeshow for Developers nonetheless.
Apple will ship Powermac replacements in June or early July. They can save Xserve and Xserve RAID updates for WWDC.
I absolutely agree with you. I believe Apple is intel's biggest client now with dell leaving. If anything apple could be EARLY with these announcements.... much like the macbook pro was with yonah. I believe they were the first yonah computers shipping.
I expect the same to happen with woodcrest.
Dell isnt leaving they're just giving the option of operons in their servers now.
Ok... so has anyone even determined if the mac pro will be sporting conroe or woodcrest? I mean from the sound of it... the mac pro's should have woodcrest. If they didn't only the xserve would have woodcrest, does that make sense?
Yes but remember, apple gets HUGE discounts from bulk. So it could still be possible to go 2.66.
I wouldn't count out 2x3ghz either... that'd really stick it to IBM for not delivering, switching to intel directly to 3ghz... steve's like that you know
I doubt they'll get that much extra off, the article talked about the price cascade for buying in mass already. 2x3ghz is a possibility, but might look weird if you have 3 models with a .66 Ghz jump in there somewhere, because the lowend almost has to 2.0ghz if it sells for $2000. At $850/700/470/330 for 3.0/2.66/2.33/2.0, the 3.0 ghz line seems like a stretch if Apple wants a big margin.
I think MacPro gets 3 ghz Woodcrest. It's a psychological barrier that I think Apple would like to break. As far as price, up goes the price. Apple has done it already on MacBook and Mini so why not MacPro?
I don't see Apple having a gap in the desktop line from the top iMac to a PM at $2500. The low-end Mac Pro won't have better than a quad-2.0, because it has to be priced at no more than $2200. What would you charge for a high-end quad-3.0 GHz Mac Pro? The processors alone cost $1700. I guess they could do it, but it'd look odd to be Quad 2.0/2.33/3.0 or Quad 2.0/2.66/3.0, too large of a gap. If they did 4 evenly spaced models, that could make sense.
Comments
Originally posted by melgross
The whole point to cache is that is is much faster than main memory. It also doesn't have the delays associated with having to go to main memory. The information in cache is known, so the cpu doesn't have to search through the cache to find what it wants. It just gets it. Very little delay involved.
But, what about the statement that it leads to a shortened cpu life?
Heh I wasn't the one that made that statement :-P .... asking the wrong person
Originally posted by emig647
Heh I wasn't the one that made that statement :-P .... asking the wrong person
Ah, yes, sorry.
It's late.
so I don't wanna hijack the thread or anything.
but my guess is we're only about a quarter (max) away from the PM's successor's (MP?
so what do y'all think the specs will roughly be?
low end
dual dual 2,5GHz conroe/woodcrest?
mid
dual dual 2,7GHz conroe/woodcrest?
top
dual dual 3Ghz conroe/woodcrest? (do they even clock that fast already?)
FSB, cache etc speculation aside, which chips are available now or w/i a month or so that would at least match the current PPC based models in terms of performance..... are there chips available today from Intel at a similar price range that will kick the quad G5 in the knackers ? ? ?
Mass rollout of Woodcrest comes in June. Apple has to deliver the nextgen Powermacs by late June or they'll get lost in the shuffle. Everyone...and I mean everyone with workstation/server products is gearing up for Woodcrest.
Woodcrest pricing: http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=29510
Conroe isn't multi-processor. They'll be relatively cheap, but they'll be standard for mid-range to high-end desktops, not workstations.
Originally posted by ZachPruckowski
Woodcrests come in 1.86/2.0/2.33/2.66/3.0 GHz speeds. Based on the pricing, I'd bet on Quad-2.0, Quad-2.33, Quad-2.66, simply because 2 of the 2.33 chips aren't gonna fit in the budget for a $2000 computer. I could see the top of the line affording 2 X 3.00 GHz, just to do it, though.
Woodcrest pricing: http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=29510
Conroe isn't multi-processor. They'll be relatively cheap, but they'll be standard for mid-range to high-end desktops, not workstations.
Yes but remember, apple gets HUGE discounts from bulk. So it could still be possible to go 2.66.
I wouldn't count out 2x3ghz either... that'd really stick it to IBM for not delivering, switching to intel directly to 3ghz... steve's like that you know
Originally posted by emig647
Yes but remember, apple gets HUGE discounts from bulk. So it could still be possible to go 2.66.
I wouldn't count out 2x3ghz either... that'd really stick it to IBM for not delivering, switching to intel directly to 3ghz... steve's like that you know
Hmm...so I guess we won't see the PowerMac being released before August...you're right about Steve. I know he's itching to go up on stage and finally exclaim "We're at 3GHz! And only Intel could bring us there" just to stick it to IBM. Releasing the 3GHz machine without an announcement or with a delayed announcement just wouldn't do it for Steve.
I hope Steve proves me wrong. I want a new computer today*.
*today = June 19th.
Originally posted by kim kap sol
Hmm...so I guess we won't see the PowerMac being released before August...you're right about Steve.
Did i miss something? Why not before august? Cause it's steve?
Originally posted by emig647
Did i miss something? Why not before august? Cause it's steve?
The Powermacs are coming before August.
Granted this is HP but
HP announced Generation 5 servers using Xeon 5000 and 5100 dual-core procs
The new servers available with Intel Xeon 5100 and 5000 series processors will be shipping to customers in late June and include the HP ProLiant DL140, DL360 and DL380 rack-optimized servers, the ProLiant ML150, ML350 and ML370 expansion-optimized servers, and the HP ProLiant BL20p server blade.
My emphasis added. Granted Apple "could" wait to the first week of Aug and WWDC to announce but by then workstation/server using Woodcrest will have been shipping for almost 6 weeks. I'd not expect too much fanfare with Apple joining the party over a month late.
Originally posted by emig647
I wouldn't count out 2x3ghz either... that'd really stick it to IBM for not delivering, switching to intel directly to 3ghz... steve's like that you know
You know Steve is going to rub that in their faces BIG time! My hats off to intel already, but that is the icing on the cake.
Originally posted by hmurchison
The Powermacs are coming before August. ... My emphasis added. Granted Apple "could" wait to the first week of Aug and WWDC to announce but by then workstation/server using Woodcrest will have been shipping for almost 6 weeks. I'd not expect too much fanfare with Apple joining the party over a month late.
I don't think Apple is all that concerned about 6 weeks. Maybe they will announce Xserves before then to sweeten the pot, and get people anxious with an end note like: "See you all at WWDC", but I still think Apple will hold out on the PowerMac until then. I think It's the Principal of the 3GHz thing at WWDC that has all the appeal for Apple. Developers have not forgotten, and neither did Apple. I think developers want to hear it, and SJ is more than happy to oblige them.
I bank on this:
XServe: Woodcrest
Mac Pro: Woodcrest (or both)
iMac: Conroe
MacBook Pro: Merom
MacBook: Yonah
MacMini: Yonah
What do you guys think?
don't think Apple is all that concerned about 6 weeks. Maybe they will announce Xserves before then to sweeten the pot, and get people anxious with an end note like: "See you all at WWDC", but I still think Apple will hold out on the PowerMac until then. I think It's the Principal of the 3GHz thing at WWDC that has all the appeal for Apple. Developers have not forgotten, and neither did Apple. I think developers want to hear it, and SJ is more than happy to oblige them.
Why wouldn't they be concerned. They uses the same hardware that every PC manf is using. It's going to look a bit odd that they are joining the party 6 weeks late. Apple had leeway to delay products when they had their own platform. Now they just will look laggardly. I think Xserve would be fine for WWDC...Powermac replacements too late.
3Ghz is nothing at this level clients want more proof of performance that a simply mhz metric. Every Tier 1 vendor will have Woodcrest parts shipping late June. Apple not being there means they've missed the bus.
Originally posted by hmurchison
Why wouldn't they be concerned. They uses the same hardware that every PC manf is using. It's going to look a bit odd that they are joining the party 6 weeks late. Apple had leeway to delay products when they had their own platform. Now they just will look laggardly. I think Xserve would be fine for WWDC...Powermac replacements too late.
3Ghz is nothing at this level clients want more proof of performance that a simply mhz metric. Every Tier 1 vendor will have Woodcrest parts shipping late June. Apple not being there means they've missed the bus.
I absolutely agree with you. I believe Apple is intel's biggest client now with dell leaving. If anything apple could be EARLY with these announcements.... much like the macbook pro was with yonah. I believe they were the first yonah computers shipping.
I expect the same to happen with woodcrest.
Apple will ship Powermac replacements in June or early July. They can save Xserve and Xserve RAID updates for WWDC.
Originally posted by emig647
I absolutely agree with you. I believe Apple is intel's biggest client now with dell leaving. If anything apple could be EARLY with these announcements.... much like the macbook pro was with yonah. I believe they were the first yonah computers shipping.
I expect the same to happen with woodcrest.
Dell isnt leaving they're just giving the option of operons in their servers now.
Originally posted by emig647
Ok... so has anyone even determined if the mac pro will be sporting conroe or woodcrest? I mean from the sound of it... the mac pro's should have woodcrest. If they didn't only the xserve would have woodcrest, does that make sense?
I bank on this:
XServe: Woodcrest
Mac Pro: Woodcrest (or both)
iMac: Conroe
MacBook Pro: Merom
MacBook: Yonah
MacMini: Yonah
What do you guys think?
I think you're dead on.
Originally posted by emig647
Yes but remember, apple gets HUGE discounts from bulk. So it could still be possible to go 2.66.
I wouldn't count out 2x3ghz either... that'd really stick it to IBM for not delivering, switching to intel directly to 3ghz... steve's like that you know
I doubt they'll get that much extra off, the article talked about the price cascade for buying in mass already. 2x3ghz is a possibility, but might look weird if you have 3 models with a .66 Ghz jump in there somewhere, because the lowend almost has to 2.0ghz if it sells for $2000. At $850/700/470/330 for 3.0/2.66/2.33/2.0, the 3.0 ghz line seems like a stretch if Apple wants a big margin.